I think the 2025 draft is a bad QB draft narrative is way overblown. There are always guys that will emerge. Some will do better than others.
A lot of names out there: Beck, Sanders, Ewers, Milroe, Ward, Dart, Leonard, Stone, Weigman, Fifita, etc.
That's 10 names there. Not all will rise to 1st round status, but I think there should be enough out of those guys (and some unknown) that there should be enough to pick from.
Even if the class is better than predicted, why is it now ok to force a QB pick in 2025?
What in the world are you talking about? Who said anything about forcing a QB pick?
I think the 2025 draft is a bad QB draft narrative is way overblown. There are always guys that will emerge. Some will do better than others.
A lot of names out there: Beck, Sanders, Ewers, Milroe, Ward, Dart, Leonard, Stone, Weigman, Fifita, etc.
That's 10 names there. Not all will rise to 1st round status, but I think there should be enough out of those guys (and some unknown) that there should be enough to pick from.
Even if the class is better than predicted, why is it now ok to force a QB pick in 2025?
So if they love a QB and take him it’s automatically a “force”? Makes no sense. They proved this season that they won’t take one just to take one. Even if it upsets GoTerps on BBI.
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Out of curiosity, where did Jayden Daniels and JJ McCarthy stand prior to last year? I feel like all we heard about prior to the 2023 season was Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, Nix and Penix were also well know prospects, but seems like Daniels and JJ were off the first round radar heading into the season.
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Out of curiosity, where did Jayden Daniels and JJ McCarthy stand prior to last year? I feel like all we heard about prior to the 2023 season was Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, Nix and Penix were also well know prospects, but seems like Daniels and JJ were off the first round radar heading into the season.
Correct any pre-season grades should not be looked at overly hard. It would be like looking at a house from the outside and wondering if you want to bid on it or not.
Need to get inside and see the layout. Need to get in-depth info and what not before making a real bid.
McCarthy would have have been day two and Daniels I did have a 1st rounder.
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Out of curiosity, where did Jayden Daniels and JJ McCarthy stand prior to last year? I feel like all we heard about prior to the 2023 season was Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, Nix and Penix were also well know prospects, but seems like Daniels and JJ were off the first round radar heading into the season.
This is the big question for me. Comparing apples to oranges. Either compare: 1. the 2025 QB prospects now (before the season they are drafted) to the 6 guys before last season; or 2. Compare the 2025 QB prospects after this CFB season to the 6 guys after this past CFB season
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
I’d think you would see Schoen and Daboll fired. The Giants would reset completely with a new GM and Head coach making the pick.
And thus, the dilemma ahead. I sincerely doubt the Giants will be truly awful enough to have something in the top 3-4 picks. I'd say anywhere from 6-12 seems like a reasonable range, which puts us exactly where we just were - in a weaker QB draft.
So once again we'll have people making excuses not to draft a QB, and if Neal sucks we'll go tackle and run it back in 2025.
I’d think you would see Schoen and Daboll fired. The Giants would reset completely with a new GM and Head coach making the pick.
The Panthers are so horrible the Giants would probably have to go winless to get #1.
Given that the Giants have held the overall #1 only twice, in 1951 and the last time almost 60 years ago in 1965, the odds they ever get it again in my lifetime are very low.
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
I disagree. I think it is important to note where he is RIGHT NOW compared to the 2024 guys because it creates the rough idea of how much better he needs to be in 2024 than he was in 2023.
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
I disagree. I think it is important to note where he is RIGHT NOW compared to the 2024 guys because it creates the rough idea of how much better he needs to be in 2024 than he was in 2023.
What do you think Riley Leonard now that he'll be playing at Notre Dame?
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
I disagree. I think it is important to note where he is RIGHT NOW compared to the 2024 guys because it creates the rough idea of how much better he needs to be in 2024 than he was in 2023.
Yeah, I am kind of on the same page as JohnF's comment with respect to Beck.
Nevertheless, Beck has a lot on his plate in 2024 to reach #1 overall status. While Georgia is never short on talent to support a QB, Beck loses two huge safety-nets in Brock Bowers and Ladd McConkey. Even though both were injured for a bunch of games last season, Beck still needs to develop/improve his passing rapport with other targets who may not be as reliable as those guys. And Kirby Smart always wants to run, but Beck can sling it around when needed. And with a much tougher schedule this season, he probably will need to reach the top goal.
did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Yup that is partially why strong statements about QBs right now shouldn't be made.
did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Yup that is partially why strong statements about QBs right now shouldn't be made.
My take on this class is that it has more guys to watch than you typically see at this point (though still less than May 2023), but it could just as easily crater as it could break out.
did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Very true. Let's see how much Beck matures into that starring role with that last season under his belt.
At Kentucky, at Alabama, at Auburn, at Texas, at Ole Miss...all by Nov 9th.
did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
I'm not much of Beck guy either. No yet, anyway. He's very one dimensional.
That Georgia OL was great for him in 2024. They were 8th amongst the P5 schools in pass protection, which is why Beck's YPA was 9.5 and his completion % was 72%+. And it certainly helped throwing to Bowers, McConkey and Lovett. Georgia did lose Todd Monken to the Ravens, so I'm sure there was an adjustment period. And it was Beck's first year in the saddle.
Just as good - including a guy that could be in the Harrison tier (91-92+)
McMillan?
Yep
2024 Had Harrison, as well as Odunze and Nabers just a notch below. When stating the 2025 WR class is just as good as 2024, are there two other WRs you see at the Odunze/Nabers level (if so, who?), or are you referring to the general depth?
did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Yup that is partially why strong statements about QBs right now shouldn't be made.
My take on this class is that it has more guys to watch than you typically see at this point (though still less than May 2023), but it could just as easily crater as it could break out.
That's my sense as well. I think there are a lot more interesting names at the beginning of the season than there were last year. How it will play out is TBD. And quantity doesn't always equate to quality. But I think it is premature to say the 2025 QB class is weak
It's hard to envision NYG not ultimately settling on QB
This feels a lot like 2018-2019 to me. Pass on the QBs in 2018 (Darnold, Allen, Rosen & Jackson) just to draft Daniel Jones in 2019.
Based on what Sy has said above, as of now it looks to be a weaker QB class. Yes, a lot can change, but that's the reality today.
I wouldn't discount any of the following though:
-QB trade market
-QB free agency market
I think the only thing that probably puts the Giants in the QB market next offseason is Jones's neck. It's going to be hard for him to have a worse 2024 than 2023, and it's going to be hard for the March-April 2025 QB landscape to be as fertile as it was in March-April 2024.
He'll have to stay healthy and the team will have to be competitive to justify the that cap hit.
I think just as likely of a scenario is Lock playing somewhat well and then wanting a big pay raise in 2025. We've already heard the Baker Mayfield comp from Schneider. This is where the Giants are in a tricky situation.
He'll have to stay healthy and the team will have to be competitive to justify the that cap hit.
I think just as likely of a scenario is Lock playing somewhat well and then wanting a big pay raise in 2025. We've already heard the Baker Mayfield comp from Schneider. This is where the Giants are in a tricky situation.
Yeah at this point Jones's health could definitely save the Giants from their own mismanagement. But there's little reason to trust they'd make a good choice even in that scenario. Hopefully they'll luck into something.
He'll have to stay healthy and the team will have to be competitive to justify the that cap hit.
I think just as likely of a scenario is Lock playing somewhat well and then wanting a big pay raise in 2025. We've already heard the Baker Mayfield comp from Schneider. This is where the Giants are in a tricky situation.
Playing somewhat well for one season and then a franchise agreeing to a big pay raise is not tricky business, it is more likely just bad business.
I think the Giants did NOT take JJM, because of Nabers being available at 6. He very well could have been the top player on their board.
I don't believe they have ANY interest in Jones long term. He was going to be the starter this year in any case. Beyond this year? I really don't think Schoen is very interested in going that route.
I think the Giants did NOT take JJM, because of Nabers being available at 6. He very well could have been the top player on their board.
I don't believe they have ANY interest in Jones long term. He was going to be the starter this year in any case. Beyond this year? I really don't think Schoen is very interested in going that route.
I'm not so sure if Jones is on a one-year trial. I posted some quotes that Schoen made after this season, and he clearly suggested that the reason for the 2023 collapse was the OL, injuries, and youth. Basically, he gave Jones a mulligan.
I've said it all along. Schoen may have given the impression he would have traded for a QB with elite skills (Maye - but I'm still not sure they were all in on that. They may have just been window shopping), but I think he's a lot fonder of Jones than we realize. Or care to admit.
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I think the 2025 draft is a bad QB draft narrative is way overblown. There are always guys that will emerge. Some will do better than others.
A lot of names out there: Beck, Sanders, Ewers, Milroe, Ward, Dart, Leonard, Stone, Weigman, Fifita, etc.
That's 10 names there. Not all will rise to 1st round status, but I think there should be enough out of those guys (and some unknown) that there should be enough to pick from.
Even if the class is better than predicted, why is it now ok to force a QB pick in 2025?
What in the world are you talking about? Who said anything about forcing a QB pick?
lmfao..
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I think the 2025 draft is a bad QB draft narrative is way overblown. There are always guys that will emerge. Some will do better than others.
A lot of names out there: Beck, Sanders, Ewers, Milroe, Ward, Dart, Leonard, Stone, Weigman, Fifita, etc.
That's 10 names there. Not all will rise to 1st round status, but I think there should be enough out of those guys (and some unknown) that there should be enough to pick from.
Even if the class is better than predicted, why is it now ok to force a QB pick in 2025?
So if they love a QB and take him it’s automatically a “force”? Makes no sense. They proved this season that they won’t take one just to take one. Even if it upsets GoTerps on BBI.
Who's Arnold?
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No Dart or Arnold?
Who's Arnold?
He does have a football shaped head, so that helps
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Are there any 2025 QBs that would have tanked in the top 6 of the 2024 class?
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Out of curiosity, where did Jayden Daniels and JJ McCarthy stand prior to last year? I feel like all we heard about prior to the 2023 season was Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, Nix and Penix were also well know prospects, but seems like Daniels and JJ were off the first round radar heading into the season.
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He would not have been top 6 in this QB class
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Are there any 2025 QBs that would have tanked in the top 6 of the 2024 class?
I am only through 3 guys right now
Beck: No
Ewers: No
Sanders: No
I am working on Milroe now - should have a pre-summer report done before next Friday
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He would not have been top 6 in this QB class
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Out of curiosity, where did Jayden Daniels and JJ McCarthy stand prior to last year? I feel like all we heard about prior to the 2023 season was Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, Nix and Penix were also well know prospects, but seems like Daniels and JJ were off the first round radar heading into the season.
Correct any pre-season grades should not be looked at overly hard. It would be like looking at a house from the outside and wondering if you want to bid on it or not.
Need to get inside and see the layout. Need to get in-depth info and what not before making a real bid.
McCarthy would have have been day two and Daniels I did have a 1st rounder.
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He would not have been top 6 in this QB class
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
Out of curiosity, where did Jayden Daniels and JJ McCarthy stand prior to last year? I feel like all we heard about prior to the 2023 season was Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, Nix and Penix were also well know prospects, but seems like Daniels and JJ were off the first round radar heading into the season.
This is the big question for me. Comparing apples to oranges. Either compare: 1. the 2025 QB prospects now (before the season they are drafted) to the 6 guys before last season; or 2. Compare the 2025 QB prospects after this CFB season to the 6 guys after this past CFB season
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
The Panthers are so horrible the Giants would probably have to go winless to get #1.
And thus, the dilemma ahead. I sincerely doubt the Giants will be truly awful enough to have something in the top 3-4 picks. I'd say anywhere from 6-12 seems like a reasonable range, which puts us exactly where we just were - in a weaker QB draft.
So once again we'll have people making excuses not to draft a QB, and if Neal sucks we'll go tackle and run it back in 2025.
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I’d think you would see Schoen and Daboll fired. The Giants would reset completely with a new GM and Head coach making the pick.
The Panthers are so horrible the Giants would probably have to go winless to get #1.
Given that the Giants have held the overall #1 only twice, in 1951 and the last time almost 60 years ago in 1965, the odds they ever get it again in my lifetime are very low.
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He would not have been top 6 in this QB class
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
I disagree. I think it is important to note where he is RIGHT NOW compared to the 2024 guys because it creates the rough idea of how much better he needs to be in 2024 than he was in 2023.
Just as good - including a guy that could be in the Harrison tier (91-92+)
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How does the 2025 WR class look?
Just as good - including a guy that could be in the Harrison tier (91-92+)
McMillan?
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How does the 2025 WR class look?
Just as good - including a guy that could be in the Harrison tier (91-92+)
Thanks Sy.
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In comment 16509033 Go Terps said:
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How does the 2025 WR class look?
Just as good - including a guy that could be in the Harrison tier (91-92+)
McMillan?
Yep
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In comment 16508803 Sy'56 said:
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He would not have been top 6 in this QB class
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
I disagree. I think it is important to note where he is RIGHT NOW compared to the 2024 guys because it creates the rough idea of how much better he needs to be in 2024 than he was in 2023.
What do you think Riley Leonard now that he'll be playing at Notre Dame?
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In comment 16508803 Sy'56 said:
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He would not have been top 6 in this QB class
That is not the end all - but important to know that is where he currently stands.
You'd have to compare how good Beck is now compared to where the "Top 6" were projected after their 2022 college season. That extra year can make a significant difference, and perhaps Beck might well have been in the mix.
I disagree. I think it is important to note where he is RIGHT NOW compared to the 2024 guys because it creates the rough idea of how much better he needs to be in 2024 than he was in 2023.
Yeah, I am kind of on the same page as JohnF's comment with respect to Beck.
Nevertheless, Beck has a lot on his plate in 2024 to reach #1 overall status. While Georgia is never short on talent to support a QB, Beck loses two huge safety-nets in Brock Bowers and Ladd McConkey. Even though both were injured for a bunch of games last season, Beck still needs to develop/improve his passing rapport with other targets who may not be as reliable as those guys. And Kirby Smart always wants to run, but Beck can sling it around when needed. And with a much tougher schedule this season, he probably will need to reach the top goal.
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
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did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Yup that is partially why strong statements about QBs right now shouldn't be made.
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In comment 16509072 Sy'56 said:
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did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Yup that is partially why strong statements about QBs right now shouldn't be made.
My take on this class is that it has more guys to watch than you typically see at this point (though still less than May 2023), but it could just as easily crater as it could break out.
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did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Very true. Let's see how much Beck matures into that starring role with that last season under his belt.
At Kentucky, at Alabama, at Auburn, at Texas, at Ole Miss...all by Nov 9th.
I'm not much of Beck guy either. No yet, anyway. He's very one dimensional.
That Georgia OL was great for him in 2024. They were 8th amongst the P5 schools in pass protection, which is why Beck's YPA was 9.5 and his completion % was 72%+. And it certainly helped throwing to Bowers, McConkey and Lovett. Georgia did lose Todd Monken to the Ravens, so I'm sure there was an adjustment period. And it was Beck's first year in the saddle.
Yup. Just like in 2019, when they overdrafted a guy named Daniel Jones at 6th overall in a weak QB class
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In comment 16509040 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16509033 Go Terps said:
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How does the 2025 WR class look?
Just as good - including a guy that could be in the Harrison tier (91-92+)
McMillan?
Yep
2024 Had Harrison, as well as Odunze and Nabers just a notch below. When stating the 2025 WR class is just as good as 2024, are there two other WRs you see at the Odunze/Nabers level (if so, who?), or are you referring to the general depth?
Thanks
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In comment 16509074 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16509072 Sy'56 said:
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did not throw the ball downfield as well as the others. On passes over 20 yards, his YPA ranked last, completion percentage last, passer rating last, and second worst turnover worthy plays. He was bottom half against pressure. And he doesn't;t create much on his own
To be fair, it was only his first year starting right? All of the top 6 this year had much more time starting (CW 3 years, DM 2 years, JJM 2 years, JD Penix and Nix like 10 years lol)
Yup that is partially why strong statements about QBs right now shouldn't be made.
My take on this class is that it has more guys to watch than you typically see at this point (though still less than May 2023), but it could just as easily crater as it could break out.
That's my sense as well. I think there are a lot more interesting names at the beginning of the season than there were last year. How it will play out is TBD. And quantity doesn't always equate to quality. But I think it is premature to say the 2025 QB class is weak
Based on what Sy has said above, as of now it looks to be a weaker QB class. Yes, a lot can change, but that's the reality today.
I wouldn't discount any of the following though:
-QB trade market
-QB free agency market
Based on what Sy has said above, as of now it looks to be a weaker QB class. Yes, a lot can change, but that's the reality today.
I wouldn't discount any of the following though:
-QB trade market
-QB free agency market
I think the only thing that probably puts the Giants in the QB market next offseason is Jones's neck. It's going to be hard for him to have a worse 2024 than 2023, and it's going to be hard for the March-April 2025 QB landscape to be as fertile as it was in March-April 2024.
I really think Jones is the guy.
I think just as likely of a scenario is Lock playing somewhat well and then wanting a big pay raise in 2025. We've already heard the Baker Mayfield comp from Schneider. This is where the Giants are in a tricky situation.
I think just as likely of a scenario is Lock playing somewhat well and then wanting a big pay raise in 2025. We've already heard the Baker Mayfield comp from Schneider. This is where the Giants are in a tricky situation.
Yeah at this point Jones's health could definitely save the Giants from their own mismanagement. But there's little reason to trust they'd make a good choice even in that scenario. Hopefully they'll luck into something.
I think just as likely of a scenario is Lock playing somewhat well and then wanting a big pay raise in 2025. We've already heard the Baker Mayfield comp from Schneider. This is where the Giants are in a tricky situation.
Playing somewhat well for one season and then a franchise agreeing to a big pay raise is not tricky business, it is more likely just bad business.
I don't believe they have ANY interest in Jones long term. He was going to be the starter this year in any case. Beyond this year? I really don't think Schoen is very interested in going that route.
I don't believe they have ANY interest in Jones long term. He was going to be the starter this year in any case. Beyond this year? I really don't think Schoen is very interested in going that route.
I'm not so sure if Jones is on a one-year trial. I posted some quotes that Schoen made after this season, and he clearly suggested that the reason for the 2023 collapse was the OL, injuries, and youth. Basically, he gave Jones a mulligan.
I've said it all along. Schoen may have given the impression he would have traded for a QB with elite skills (Maye - but I'm still not sure they were all in on that. They may have just been window shopping), but I think he's a lot fonder of Jones than we realize. Or care to admit.
I personally think the Giants will make a run at Dak next offseason or another Vet QB if Jones disappoints or flounders this year.