How bad has the talent been?

.

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Whether you like Jones or hate him, it's hard to argue that anyone could have done anything with what the Giants have put around the QB.

Until you look at the Chargers and notice that Justin Herbert's worst season is comparable to Jones's best.

2020 - Supporting cast 32nd, 36 total TDs, 10 INTs.
2021 - Supporting cast 15th, 41 total TDs, 15 INTs
2022 - Supporting cast 28th, 25 total TDs, 10 INTs
2023 - Supporting cast 29th, 23 total TDs, 7 INTs

Post. Im afraid its too late to convince the people who want daniel gone anything different however. Me personally, I’m rooting for Jones. I hope he scores a td and flips the giants fans the double birds.

In comment 16508743 rsjem1979 said:

Quote:

Quote: Whether you like Jones or hate him, it's hard to argue that anyone could have done anything with what the Giants have put around the QB. Until you look at the Chargers and notice that Justin Herbert's worst season is comparable to Jones's best. 2020 - Supporting cast 32nd, 36 total TDs, 10 INTs. 2021 - Supporting cast 15th, 41 total TDs, 15 INTs 2022 - Supporting cast 28th, 25 total TDs, 10 INTs 2023 - Supporting cast 29th, 23 total TDs, 7 INTs

By what measure?

a big problem for over a decade. Giants have had a bunch of turds in the front office.

Rankings are subjective but 2022 stands out. Only year that AT (not here '19), SB and Jones played together 100% healthy.

SB blew out his knee and was a shell of himself when he came back. AT had lower leg issues that surgery finally corrected. Then Jones stayed healthy all season.

In comment 16508764 Straw Hat said:

Quote:

Post. Im afraid its too late to convince the people who want daniel gone anything different however. Me personally, I’m rooting for Jones. I hope he scores a td and flips the giants fans the double birds.

If he can meet the minimum standards for a well paid franchise QB (which he has yet to do), he can flip me the bird as much as he wants. Hoping for a bunch of wins this fall.

Has been reversed.

In comment 16508743 rsjem1979 said:

Quote:

Quote: Whether you like Jones or hate him, it's hard to argue that anyone could have done anything with what the Giants have put around the QB. Until you look at the Chargers and notice that Justin Herbert's worst season is comparable to Jones's best. 2020 - Supporting cast 32nd, 36 total TDs, 10 INTs. 2021 - Supporting cast 15th, 41 total TDs, 15 INTs 2022 - Supporting cast 28th, 25 total TDs, 10 INTs 2023 - Supporting cast 29th, 23 total TDs, 7 INTs

If you think the Chargers had comparable OL (ESPECIALLY after Thomas went down and Ezeudu was the LT for 9 games) and comparable WRs... ummm wow. Maybe get some lasik? Every fucking day with these stupid Daniel Jones arguments.

Sofa-kingdom.

better than Jones under last year's O-line, I gotta think that Jones' problems remain. Inability to quickly scan the field, inability to find a secondary receiver, not all that accurate throwing on the run, average velocity, etc.

that's why we've sucked for the better part of 12 years.

We have and have had plenty of pretty good players. Too many bad players and not nearly enough elite players.

I think it's trending upward but need to see year 3 and the talent level come to fruition.

In comment 16508799 GeofromNJ said:

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better than Jones under last year's O-line, I gotta think that Jones' problems remain. Inability to quickly scan the field, inability to find a secondary receiver, not all that accurate throwing on the run, average velocity, etc.

Tyrod and devito got to play with andrew thomas. Jones did not. This is all that needs to be said.

another DJ shit show thread in the making.

Bye!

some of you really get moist over stats. I get it to some extent, stats are great and can be a useful metric and at times they are fun to gawk at, especially if it is one of you teams, but holy hell.

It disembodies the QB from the offense when it in fact the QB has a hand in everything the offense does

You might notice with rare exceptions on that chart the best teams supporting cast all have very good to exceptional QBs and the bad teams at the bottom largely have bad QBs

This would lead to the erroneous conclusion that QBs dont matter.

In comment 16508799 GeofromNJ said:

Quote:

better than Jones under last year's O-line, I gotta think that Jones' problems remain. Inability to quickly scan the field, inability to find a secondary receiver, not all that accurate throwing on the run, average velocity, etc.

I'm not trying to say Jones is good or bad. But be real, look at the O linemen that started the games Jones played versus the lines that started the games Taylor and DeVito played. I said it before. There were two games when Jones was getting pounded when Neal had more starts than the rest of the offensive linemen combined (and he was playing hurt) - and included Ezeudu at LT, a position he should have never played a single down at in the NFL. It was easily the least experienced offensive line to start an NFL game since the first year or two of the league. Even expansion teams have had more experienced O lines.

My god, they signed Pugh off the couch and got a big improvement just because he was only below average. At one point there were two practice squad players playing. I'll wager that has never happened before.

In comment 16508788 Johnny5 said:

Quote:

In comment 16508743 rsjem1979 said: Quote: Quote: Whether you like Jones or hate him, it's hard to argue that anyone could have done anything with what the Giants have put around the QB. Until you look at the Chargers and notice that Justin Herbert's worst season is comparable to Jones's best. 2020 - Supporting cast 32nd, 36 total TDs, 10 INTs. 2021 - Supporting cast 15th, 41 total TDs, 15 INTs 2022 - Supporting cast 28th, 25 total TDs, 10 INTs 2023 - Supporting cast 29th, 23 total TDs, 7 INTs If you think the Chargers had comparable OL (ESPECIALLY after Thomas went down and Ezeudu was the LT for 9 games) and comparable WRs... ummm wow. Maybe get some lasik? Every fucking day with these stupid Daniel Jones arguments. Sofa-kingdom.

It's on the damn chart.

In comment 16508826 HardTruth said:

Quote:

It disembodies the QB from the offense when it in fact the QB has a hand in everything the offense does You might notice with rare exceptions on that chart the best teams supporting cast all have very good to exceptional QBs and the bad teams at the bottom largely have bad QBs This would lead to the erroneous conclusion that QBs dont matter.

And this cuts both ways. I.e. does the supporting cast make the QB look better or is it the other way around. The short answer, of course, is both. Which is why stats, especially QB stats, tell you so little. Is Brock Purdy a good QB. Not particularly (IMO). How about Dak? Baker? etc. You have to watch them play and then make a judgment. To me DJ has always looked like a competent QB on a horrible offense. Many who watch more film and know more have indicated that he can't process. A smaller number seem to disagree (including apparently Daboll at least at the end of last year). I think almost all would agree that DJ cannot carry a team. Neither can all but 3 or 4 QBs in the league at anytime. He can tank your team (see Seattle game) but usually doesn't. Give him the right support and the right system and he will be OK. And likely no better than that. Let's root for him to be that. Let's hope by some miracle he can be more than that.

In comment 16508799 GeofromNJ said:

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better than Jones under last year's O-line, I gotta think that Jones' problems remain. Inability to quickly scan the field, inability to find a secondary receiver, not all that accurate throwing on the run, average velocity, etc.

Why does this still need to be explained….. the Giants started the year against the number 1 and 2 seeds in the conference the first 2 out of 3 games. (both in prime time). We played 4 road games out of 6 to start the season. Daniel Jones was sacked 30 times in 6 games. The Giants started to play better later in the year. There’s so many factors why we were terrible beyond Daniel Jones.

In comment 16508886 mfjmfj said:

Quote:

In comment 16508826 HardTruth said: Quote: It disembodies the QB from the offense when it in fact the QB has a hand in everything the offense does You might notice with rare exceptions on that chart the best teams supporting cast all have very good to exceptional QBs and the bad teams at the bottom largely have bad QBs This would lead to the erroneous conclusion that QBs dont matter. And this cuts both ways. I.e. does the supporting cast make the QB look better or is it the other way around. The short answer, of course, is both. Which is why stats, especially QB stats, tell you so little. Is Brock Purdy a good QB. Not particularly (IMO). How about Dak? Baker? etc. You have to watch them play and then make a judgment. To me DJ has always looked like a competent QB on a horrible offense. Many who watch more film and know more have indicated that he can't process. A smaller number seem to disagree (including apparently Daboll at least at the end of last year). I think almost all would agree that DJ cannot carry a team. Neither can all but 3 or 4 QBs in the league at anytime. He can tank your team (see Seattle game) but usually doesn't. Give him the right support and the right system and he will be OK. And likely no better than that. Let's root for him to be that. Let's hope by some miracle he can be more than that.

And I believe the judgment you make of this thread and of Jones is wrong. That's where we differ, right? While you say "I think he can do an ok job." IMO your pov in this matter is extremely reckless given his injury history.

Thus imo you come up with a faulty bias view. IMO anyone that isn't bias can tell in the case with the Giants that the QB combined with his injuries is subpar -- and the idea of being "okay) (i.e. mediocre) with possibly exposing the team with more money if DJ gets hurt -- is a blunder.

It's okay we disagree, right?

In comment 16508963 RELICDOA said:

Quote:

In comment 16508799 GeofromNJ said: Quote: better than Jones under last year's O-line, I gotta think that Jones' problems remain. Inability to quickly scan the field, inability to find a secondary receiver, not all that accurate throwing on the run, average velocity, etc. Why does this still need to be explained….. the Giants started the year against the number 1 and 2 seeds in the conference the first 2 out of 3 games. (both in prime time). We played 4 road games out of 6 to start the season. Daniel Jones was sacked 30 times in 6 games. The Giants started to play better later in the year. There’s so many factors why we were terrible beyond Daniel Jones.

INCLUDING JONES you forgot to mention.

In comment 16508799 GeofromNJ said:

Quote:

better than Jones under last year's O-line, I gotta think that Jones' problems remain. Inability to quickly scan the field, inability to find a secondary receiver, not all that accurate throwing on the run, average velocity, etc.

Actually, just as they were taking over the QB role, the Giants brought in Justin Pugh which noticeably help to bring some stability to the OL (not a lot, but they did play better as a unit once Justin started)

enough talent to elevate Daniel Jones. It's so weird. It's like there is another problem aside from supporting cast.

In comment 16508816 djm said:

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some of you really get moist over stats. I get it to some extent, stats are great and can be a useful metric and at times they are fun to gawk at, especially if it is one of you teams, but holy hell.

Yea.. too much stats in sports. What do stats tell you? [/s]

In comment 16508834 k2tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 16508799 GeofromNJ said: Quote: better than Jones under last year's O-line, I gotta think that Jones' problems remain. Inability to quickly scan the field, inability to find a secondary receiver, not all that accurate throwing on the run, average velocity, etc. I'm not trying to say Jones is good or bad. But be real, look at the O linemen that started the games Jones played versus the lines that started the games Taylor and DeVito played. I said it before. There were two games when Jones was getting pounded when Neal had more starts than the rest of the offensive linemen combined (and he was playing hurt) - and included Ezeudu at LT, a position he should have never played a single down at in the NFL. It was easily the least experienced offensive line to start an NFL game since the first year or two of the league. Even expansion teams have had more experienced O lines. My god, they signed Pugh off the couch and got a big improvement just because he was only below average. At one point there were two practice squad players playing. I'll wager that has never happened before.

You make a good point.

In comment 16508981 Darwinian said:

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enough talent to elevate Daniel Jones. It's so weird. It's like there is another problem aside from supporting cast.

Maybe someone could add some talent around you dopes that just want post the same tired shit about one position on the team every G*d*mned day, incessantly.

In comment 16509096 Johnny5 said:

Quote:

In comment 16508981 Darwinian said: Quote: enough talent to elevate Daniel Jones. It's so weird. It's like there is another problem aside from supporting cast. Maybe someone could add some talent around you dopes that just want post the same tired shit about one position on the team every G*d*mned day, incessantly.

Be more respectful of the OP! Dannyphilia is a real disorder!

Sick of this shit. Has Jones been afforded great talent around him? No. The OL was horseshit last season before he got hurt & we've never been trotting out Irvin, Smith, Harper, & Novacek @ the skill positions for him. But the dude was drafted sixth overall & is making $40 million. Is it too much to ask for him to elevate his game & in turn others? I know people will clap back @ me 'We're not making excuses!', but it sure AF sounds like it. The whole Mara quote about how the Giants have done everything possible to screw him is up pathetic. How about asking Daniel to up his game?

The plan is obvious

Some of you said Jones sucks

Winning season with a shitty cast
Playoff win away

You make, wait for it.

EXCUSES why this happened

Then they signed Jones to a contract.

Owner must have made them do it(Lol)

Injuries and terrible season, in which Jones plays badly.

“I WAS RIGHT” you proclaim.

They are going to draft his replacement you cry.

TT leaves

We sign a less experienced QB

R Wilson visits and leaves to sign in Pittsburg.

We did not draft a QB

The plan is obvious

The Giants clearly believe Daniel Jones can win if you surround him with talent .

They just disagree with you.

FFS

Why are your posts like stanzas? Very bizarre.

& yet you forget that the Giants tried moving heaven & earth to get Maye, but the Pats rebuffed them.

Yeah, it appears the Giants are going into this season believing in Jones when surrounded by talent. And that should give us confidence because? This organization has been a dumpster fire for awhile now.

In comment 16509118 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Sick of this shit. Has Jones been afforded great talent around him? No. The OL was horseshit last season before he got hurt & we've never been trotting out Irvin, Smith, Harper, & Novacek @ the skill positions for him. But the dude was drafted sixth overall & is making $40 million. Is it too much to ask for him to elevate his game & in turn others? I know people will clap back @ me 'We're not making excuses!', but it sure AF sounds like it. The whole Mara quote about how the Giants have done everything possible to screw him is up pathetic. How about asking Daniel to up his game?

I would like for both to happen, yes. I have been more pissed about the overall roster and especially how bad our OL has been for so long. I don't give Jones a pass at all but for crissakes I'd love to see him play behind an OL that Dallas and Philly doesn't run roughshod over every play for once, with somebody actually better than Darius Slayton as his top target. I don't think he is horrible the way you do. I think he is a middle of the road QB who we can win with if we can for once match rosters with Dallas and Philly. They kick our asses up and down the field every game for the last how many years (minus Philly falling off of a cliff at the end of last year). I don't see how people don't see the roster disparities between NY and Dallas/Philly. I keep hoping for the gap to narrow every year and it NEVER does for like 8 fucking years now, but we have people that want to just yell about Daniel Jones all day long. It's just stupid. I want a better TEAM overall period.

to make their point. I just want to win and I root for every player in a Giant uniform since 1956. Let the whiners continue to complain . These folks must be miserable to be with.

In comment 16509135 Thegratefulhead said:

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The plan is obvious Some of you said Jones sucks Winning season with a shitty cast Playoff win away You make, wait for it. EXCUSES why this happened Then they signed Jones to a contract. O They just disagree with you. FFS

Yes-- but they have been a loser oganization and people tend to go by the latest information available. It seems posters that support Jones only want to look at 2 years ago and ignore this past year and the prior years.

SO there should be an understanding that as fans we shouldn't give a shit that a losing organization (which this has been) doesn't agree with us.

That's why its so laugahble posters like you make the above comment as havign an iota of relevancy. Thanks for the comedy post.

QB . It's only the most important position in all of sports and ours just happens to be bad but massively overpaid, why not talk about that

In comment 16509135 Thegratefulhead said:

Quote:

The plan is obvious Some of you said Jones sucks Winning season with a shitty cast Playoff win away You make, wait for it. EXCUSES why this happened Then they signed Jones to a contract. Owner must have made them do it(Lol) Injuries and terrible season, in which Jones plays badly. “I WAS RIGHT” you proclaim. They are going to draft his replacement you cry. TT leaves We sign a less experienced QB R Wilson visits and leaves to sign in Pittsburg. We did not draft a QB The plan is obvious The Giants clearly believe Daniel Jones can win if you surround him with talent . They just disagree with you. FFS

Is that why they desperately tried to trade up to #3. I find it hard to believe you swallow your own bullshit.

including at the QB position

In comment 16509857 Darwinian said:

Quote:

In comment 16509135 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: The plan is obvious Some of you said Jones sucks Winning season with a shitty cast Playoff win away You make, wait for it. EXCUSES why this happened Then they signed Jones to a contract. Owner must have made them do it(Lol) Injuries and terrible season, in which Jones plays badly. “I WAS RIGHT” you proclaim. They are going to draft his replacement you cry. TT leaves We sign a less experienced QB R Wilson visits and leaves to sign in Pittsburg. We did not draft a QB The plan is obvious The Giants clearly believe Daniel Jones can win if you surround him with talent . They just disagree with you. FFS Is that why they desperately tried to trade up to #3. I find it hard to believe you swallow your own bullshit.

Not only does he swallow it, he gets it tattooed on his leg.

In comment 16510572 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 16509857 Darwinian said: Quote: In comment 16509135 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: The plan is obvious Some of you said Jones sucks Winning season with a shitty cast Playoff win away You make, wait for it. EXCUSES why this happened Then they signed Jones to a contract. Owner must have made them do it(Lol) Injuries and terrible season, in which Jones plays badly. “I WAS RIGHT” you proclaim. They are going to draft his replacement you cry. TT leaves We sign a less experienced QB R Wilson visits and leaves to sign in Pittsburg. We did not draft a QB The plan is obvious The Giants clearly believe Daniel Jones can win if you surround him with talent . They just disagree with you. FFS Is that why they desperately tried to trade up to #3. I find it hard to believe you swallow your own bullshit. Not only does he swallow it, he gets it tattooed on his leg.

Desperately huh?

Why isn’t he a NYG?

NE needed a QB. EVERYONE knew that you would need to blow them away. We never tried to do that. There 3 QBs other team drafted in the first round. The people that know the most don’t think Jones sucks.

You disagree

Your response.

They must be stupid.

My response.

What don’t I know?

Who is more likely the stupid mutherukker?

Go argue with a fucking wall.

These guys are Giants and you are allegedly Giants fans. You need to fall in line and support the talent or find another team to root for.