Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
·
21h
The #Giants have all of the sudden built out one of the fastest WR corps in the NFL
Malik Nabers 4.38
Darius Slayton 4.39
Jalin Hyatt 4.40
Wan'Dale Robinson 4.44
From an Xs&Os standpoint, having this level of speed on the field should force Ds to cover every blade of grass.
Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
·
21h
The Malik Nabers addition is going to make it difficult for defenses to shade coverage over the top of Jalin Hyatt like we saw at times in 2023.
Instead, we could be looking at a lot more rolled coverages toward Nabers & one-on-one opportunities for Hyatt to beat his man #Giants
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for a playoff run.
-- improved WR group
-- improved OL
-- good stable of RBs
-- good play-callers
-- highly paid QB entering third season under this staff
-- not drafting QB akin to vote of confidence for Jones
Two additional words come to mind - no excuses.
they won 9 games in year 1 with 2 receivers basically off waivers and slayton who they almost cut. at least 3 or 4 starters on D from waivers too (moureau, smith, davis, mccloud, pinnock).
for good orgs there are rarely any excuses beyond the really catastrophic injury years.
Whether we are a good organization remains to be seen, but I have no issue with anything you stated.
So, do you agree we should be considered a team that should vie for a playoff spot and double-digit wins?
BTW, not being a wise ass. Just genuinely interested in your expectations.
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In comment 16509596 cosmicj said:
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Without a good QB, this is meaningless.
But it’s interesting beyond 24 if we acquire a capable passer. It’s starting to look like the Dolphins North.
If this year goes really badly I wonder if they fire Daboll and try to hire Ben Johnson and sign Jared Goff. Johnson fits the profile of what the Giants like in a new coach (offensive focus, first time head coach, no cache to threaten the established order), and Goff would obviously have the familiarity with the offense.
But that's only if things go really bad, like 6 wins or less. Anything past that and they'll probably just run it all back.
Can we help a brother out and create a bot that posts to every thread the following statement
GoTerps: Without a good QB, this is meaningless.
But it’s interesting beyond 24 if we acquire a capable passer.
I would like to save him some time.
It isn't particularly interesting after 2024.
Who gives a shit how fast the WRs are? Parris Campbell is really fast. Darren Waller is really fast. We saw how important that was.
What's tired is pretending this is a good football operation.
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It doesn't matter the topic --you'll turn it into complaining about the QB. You must really be a blast at parties.
Who gives a shit how fast the WRs are? Parris Campbell is really fast. Darren Waller is really fast. We saw how important that was.
What's tired is pretending this is a good football operation.
Terps, you've been doing all the heavy lifting around here for years. I appreciate your efforts.
The QB is relevant to the discussion. What good is speed on the outside if you have (1) an OL who can't pass block long enough for them to get open and (2) a QB who can't or won't throw the deep ball and needs a guy to be standing alone with nobody in a 50 mile radius to think he is open
I do give a shit about it, and the topic is a false premise. We saw that last year.
They're fast this year and we're supposed to get excited? Ok.
I mean...aren't we kinda proving this point as an organization through this little end of Eli/DJ experiment?
Again, they were fast last year and they had a terrible offense. Why should we be excited this year because they're fast?
It's really too bad Waller doesn't have his head on straight.
This could be REALLY fucking good.
Hopeful
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Until DJ is gone. We know that. I'm sure you will remind us of that many more times before the day is over.
Again, they were fast last year and they had a terrible offense. Why should we be excited this year because they're fast?
Just to be clear
You are saying,
if he o-line plays better this year AND with the addition of Nabers 2024 will be no better than 2023?
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Until DJ is gone. We know that. I'm sure you will remind us of that many more times before the day is over.
Again, they were fast last year and they had a terrible offense. Why should we be excited this year because they're fast?
This is different Terps.
Schoen and Daboll are the right guys, give them a second chance even though their QB evaluation is different than yours. They really do possess a ton of information you do not.
Just to be clear
You are saying,
if he o-line plays better this year AND with the addition of Nabers 2024 will be no better than 2023?
I expect the offense to be better than 2023 because it's very difficult to be worse.
Do I expect the offense to be good enough to make the Giants a team that wins 10+ games, compete for the division, and be a that in the playoffs (all of which should be expected in year 3 of this regime's build), I absolutely do not.
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Just to be clear
You are saying,
if he o-line plays better this year AND with the addition of Nabers 2024 will be no better than 2023?
I expect the offense to be better than 2023 because it's very difficult to be worse.
Do I expect the offense to be good enough to make the Giants a team that wins 10+ games, compete for the division, and be a that in the playoffs (all of which should be expected in year 3 of this regime's build), I absolutely do not.
Ok next question:
Are roster changes meaningless unless you win 10+ games, compete for the division, and be a that in the playoffs?
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It doesn't matter the topic --you'll turn it into complaining about the QB. You must really be a blast at parties.
The QB is relevant to the discussion. What good is speed on the outside if you have (1) an OL who can't pass block long enough for them to get open and (2) a QB who can't or won't throw the deep ball and needs a guy to be standing alone with nobody in a 50 mile radius to think he is open
What you say here is correct, but only if you accept certain conditions as fact. We actually did see some signs of a downfield passing game last year. You are correct about the line early on last year, but it eventually stabilized to a degree and we did see TT attack down field, with a degree of success. So now they've added five experienced Oline via FA who will compete with the four young Oline draftees. And we have a new Oline coach. I can't say for sure that all that change will improve things, but none of us can sit here and say they know that it won't. There was deliberate effort made to ensure that it wont.
As far as the QB, all I can say is that if Jones refuses to throw down field, he won't be the QB for long. Lock has his own issues, but unwillingness to attack vertically isn't his issue.
So while I agree, all this is relevant to the conversation, I disagree that there is no conversation to be had and that what happened last year necessarily tells the story for this year. We tend to overestimate our speculation.
I don't know how anyone that lived through the Gettleman era can still make the "trust the pros" argument.
grateful - the other teams all have pros too. And yet we see mistakes made all the time.
By the way, by the time you are open, the ball needs to be there.
Good professional QB play does not rely on waiting for a receiver to get open typically.
At any rate, getting open wasn't the problem, it was seeing it quickly, and
executing.
By the way, by the time you are open, the ball needs to be there.
Good professional QB play does not rely on waiting for a receiver to get open typically.
At any rate, getting open wasn't the problem, it was seeing it quickly, and
executing.
Yes.
Ok next question:
Are roster changes meaningless unless you win 10+ games, compete for the division, and be a that in the playoffs?
That probably varies on a fan by fan basis. I'm increasingly surprised by the number of fans that don't seem to care about wins and losses.
Burns
Nubin
Phillips
Johnson
Tracy
Muasau
Plus FAs
We have a plan.
I get you think NOTHING will change until we get a new QB.
YOU
might be right
The guys who know the most CLEARY do not agree.
Why?
They sure seem to have a plan and one we all seem to like
Except for 1 thing
some of us are ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE the QB sucks
If you admit it is possible , that you are in fact wrong,
Not that Jones is great.
Just that, he might not suck.
This offense as constructed might not need a Herbert talent. It might need someone to get the ball to playmakers.
Like college.
You might get excited
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Ok next question:
Are roster changes meaningless unless you win 10+ games, compete for the division, and be a that in the playoffs?
That probably varies on a fan by fan basis. I'm increasingly surprised by the number of fans that don't seem to care about wins and losses.
I was not asking the fanbases, i was asking you. You said this all meaningless.
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In comment 16509678 SteelGiant said:
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Ok next question:
Are roster changes meaningless unless you win 10+ games, compete for the division, and be a that in the playoffs?
That probably varies on a fan by fan basis. I'm increasingly surprised by the number of fans that don't seem to care about wins and losses.
I was not asking the fanbases, i was asking you. You said this all meaningless.
I expect the team to be pretty poor again, so yes in the end I don't think it will matter much.
Oddsmakers agree. O/U 6.5, and only 3 or 4 teams have longer odds to win the Super Bowl.
By the way, by the time you are open, the ball needs to be there.
Good professional QB play does not rely on waiting for a receiver to get open typically.
At any rate, getting open wasn't the problem, it was seeing it quickly, and
executing.
I played QB
Sometimes you feel like a fucking god and no one can do a damn thing to stop you. This happens when develop and can trust the protections. It all slows, down, becomes infinitely easier to see.
When pressure increases and the windows get smaller, you reduce your options before the play starts, you lose trust. The windows look smaller. There are some plays a QB will always look bad.
The whole set up for a wide receiver screen, or any kind of screen. Someone is almost always running free on the other side of the field. If you just look and he isn’t open you wasted your one opportunity to deliver the to play the entire offense was setting up for number of plays before they called the play. Almost the entire defense is there, you have to account for almost limitless set of possibilities, with so many players so close.
Idiot that never played QB.
“Look the idiot missed a sure TD.”
Yeah, he did.
But
If he looked and it was covered the play is over. And all that we did to set up that screen is wasted. It is why DBs gamble and leave it uncovered.
I do not think this how this regime wanted this to go but they have to build a roster as a whole.
JS did not sign DJ to his 5th year option (so I dont think they really liked DJ)
DJ and the Giants make the playoffs and had DJ and Saquan in contract negotiations. It was a bit of a double edge sword, if they knew DJ would not progress and would get injured again they probably would have not gone this route. At the end it was a mistake - My opinion all GMs make mistakes, its how they pivot is what matters
So in the draft they tried to get what they valued as a possible great QB and apparently offered a good deal to get them and could not get the team off the player they wanted. So this is the next place the road divides. Draft another QB and build a team around them, or Build a team without the QB and figure it out. (this is where some get upset again)
So now they are building the team up to get where they want to go. I still would not put this as meaningless, nor is this like Gettleman. This regime would not have drafted a RB with the second overall pick. This regime also proved they will not just take a QB to take a QB to solve their problems (for example: Daniel Jones).
Instead they put their eggs in the basket of a possible all time play-maker at the WR position to help upgrade all the WRs. Every WR will now be facing a less talented CB than they were facing before. They also went and got veteran lineman to try to fix the OL, and also replaced their OLine coach with someone who has a track record of getting more out of players.
If this year goes down and everything looks a lot better and we are sitting saying wow this team would be great as long as they had a better QB, I am ok with that. Is it ideal, no but teams have been built that way:
Chiefs (Mahomes replaced Alex Smith)
San Fran (Brock Purdy replaced Garoppolo)
Those teams had a process and got the team better with inferior QBs, so it is possible.
People think you need protection to throw deep balls.
Oftentimes, these are quick throws from snap to throw.
The "time" element for the receiver to get down the field comes when the ball is in the air.
Nobody is arguing that the line wasn't bad or that bad OL doesn't negatively affect QB play.
The argument I was making is that you don't need 3 seconds plus of protection to take deep shots. DJ just didn't take them, and they have been there to take.
The premise of this being a time problem (to get open) isn't accurate. And it's been debunked on this forum before with citations and video evidence.
No young offensive mind will want to take a chance with Mara.
That does not really change my perceptive. If DJ/Lock suck, that puts us closer to the top of the draft in 2025. The point is making the rest of the roster better is important. Neither of those QBs were great either.
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are both miles better than DJ.
That does not really change my perceptive. If DJ/Lock suck, that puts us closer to the top of the draft in 2025. The point is making the rest of the roster better is important. Neither of those QBs were great either.
I mean - I guess.
Good chance we end up in the exact same situation we did this year - just outside the reach to get one of the "good" QBs.
This is literally the definition of QB hell.
The Giants QB situation is as bad as it gets, but they are still in love with the QB. The Browns are the common example, but they weren't dying to pay Charlie Frye and Bruce Gradkowski massive amounts of money.
Giants fans have to live in constant terror of Daniel having a good game or 2 at the end of the year because then we will be held hostage for at least another year.
QB Hell is a hopeless situation. We are in the unprecedented situation of giving a backup QB the starting job for 6 consecutive years. What we have is far worse. And it's something that hasn't really happened before and probably won't happen again
The Giants QB situation is as bad as it gets, but they are still in love with the QB. The Browns are the common example, but they weren't dying to pay Charlie Frye and Bruce Gradkowski massive amounts of money.
Giants fans have to live in constant terror of Daniel having a good game or 2 at the end of the year because then we will be held hostage for at least another year.
QB Hell is a hopeless situation. We are in the unprecedented situation of giving a backup QB the starting job for 6 consecutive years. What we have is far worse. And it's something that hasn't really happened before and probably won't happen again
So if they are so in love with DJ as you claim…I guess trying to trade up for Maye was a figment of my imagination
Interesting take
POSSIBLE !!!
Drafts are all projection
just like taking a new QB at 6 overall
You would hope the same thing.
If you dont think you that guy is a difference maker, you should not be drafting him at 6.
This regime is hitching their careers onto Thibs, Neal (yikes) and Nabers. So those are the guys I will judge them on.
If Nabers sucks, this regime is toast. But if Nabers excels and you see other receivers making a leap by getting a player of that nature next to them, then get a QB, then there is no issue
That is why people on this thread are talking excited instead of being a debbie downer the whole time.
He had advocated to select a QB (or multiple QBs every year) AND turn over the position at the end of their rookie contract to perpetually be in the rookie cap for the position. He’s entitled to his opinion for this novel concept.
Since ZERO teams use this concept, that tells me a lot.
Also, since the Giants haven’t picked a QB since Jones, he is convinced they are in “love” with Jones.
There is plenty of evidence to contradict that thought ( the attempted trade up for Maye being the most recent).
What I think that says is the organization is STILL following an archaic business model for QBs, giving Jones too many opportunities.
As he and BW have CORRECTLY pointed out, the successful teams in the league make their assessment within 3 years and move on if necessary.
These guys don’t.
All that being said, if LAC had take. Nabers, I strongly believe they would have taken McCarthy.
It's really too bad Waller doesn't have his head on straight.
I think Robinson will benefit greatly going across the middle of the field this season.
Parris Campbell was who Jones played with, and he's a fringe player at this point.
He had advocated to select a QB (or multiple QBs every year) AND turn over the position at the end of their rookie contract to perpetually be in the rookie cap for the position. He’s entitled to his opinion for this novel concept.
Not accurate. Read better.
He had advocated to select a QB (or multiple QBs every year) AND turn over the position at the end of their rookie contract to perpetually be in the rookie cap for the position. He’s entitled to his opinion for this novel concept.
Since ZERO teams use this concept, that tells me a lot.
Also, since the Giants haven’t picked a QB since Jones, he is convinced they are in “love” with Jones.
There is plenty of evidence to contradict that thought ( the attempted trade up for Maye being the most recent).
What I think that says is the organization is STILL following an archaic business model for QBs, giving Jones too many opportunities.
As he and BW have CORRECTLY pointed out, the successful teams in the league make their assessment within 3 years and move on if necessary.
These guys don’t.
All that being said, if LAC had take. Nabers, I strongly believe they would have taken McCarthy.
It was said the Giants only would have taken JJM much later in the draft. He wasn't the next highest rated player after Nabers.
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try to argue a cogent point with Terps.
He had advocated to select a QB (or multiple QBs every year) AND turn over the position at the end of their rookie contract to perpetually be in the rookie cap for the position. He’s entitled to his opinion for this novel concept.
Since ZERO teams use this concept, that tells me a lot.
Also, since the Giants haven’t picked a QB since Jones, he is convinced they are in “love” with Jones.
There is plenty of evidence to contradict that thought ( the attempted trade up for Maye being the most recent).
What I think that says is the organization is STILL following an archaic business model for QBs, giving Jones too many opportunities.
As he and BW have CORRECTLY pointed out, the successful teams in the league make their assessment within 3 years and move on if necessary.
These guys don’t.
All that being said, if LAC had take. Nabers, I strongly believe they would have taken McCarthy.
It was said the Giants only would have taken JJM much later in the draft. He wasn't the next highest rated player after Nabers.
I would guess it was Rome Odunze as the next player on their draft board.
Think about this next December when the Giants are playing for another meaningless win to pad the record but you want to just win every game.
By the way, by the time you are open, the ball needs to be there.
Good professional QB play does not rely on waiting for a receiver to get open typically.
Well saie.
At any rate, getting open wasn't the problem, it was seeing it quickly, and
executing.
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It doesn't matter the topic --you'll turn it into complaining about the QB. You must really be a blast at parties.
Who gives a shit how fast the WRs are? Parris Campbell is really fast. Darren Waller is really fast. We saw how important that was.
What's tired is pretending this is a good football operation.
Does the OL matter in this world or no?? You’re right, who cares about the WRs (even though the nabers add is an awesome, fun and cost controlled add, if you want to stay miserable there fine) but you’re completely ignoring the crisis from last year that the front office did address with 2-3 big FA moves. You’re right, fuck the wrs until they fix the OL. And they tried to do just that but nope, you’re still gonna torpedo any discussion and make it about you and you’re love affair with everything #8. Fuck the OL too right? Doesn’t even matter? The qb is so bad his mere presence on the field permeates decay to the OL.
Except in 2022 of course.