No I wont turn in my fan card, still will root for them but man it is bleak in my eyes. And as I thought through the draft and offseason, I think JS is to blame which makes it even darker.
It starts with Jones who I like. After watching him get outplayed by Tyrod Taylor and Devito how can you have faith? Aside from his injuries, what has he shown you that he can overcome adversity vs good teams? I wanted him to take that step last year but he went in reverse and I believe his head is screwed up. I do blame Judge for him and a terrible cast but it doesn't mean he isn't broken goods.
I wanted Penix but I would have been fine with McCarthy/Nix. No way they are worse than Jones imo. But they have upside or at least Kevin O connell and Sean Payton think so. Two guys who know QBs a little bit.
The Burns trade which sounded good but I wanted Huff. Knowing the Giants could have signed Huff and Armstrong for the same money and mitigated injury risk without losing that 2nd rd pick? A 4 man rotation of Thibs/Huff/Armstrong/AO? Yes I preferred that.
And that #2 pick? holy crap they had their pick of CBs, Mckistry, Lassiter, Melton, ALL there. Or how about Jackson JOhnson? A OG/OC sound good?
Then at #47 they draft Mckinney's replacement - oh great! Let's not sign Julian Love a very good homegrown player to save money to sign Mckinney. Mckinney has a good season and is now too EXPENSIVE? So draft another S with a premium pick? How about a DT here? Or Adonai Mitchell? SO happy we still have Slayton!
The OL will dictate a bunch how this goes. Will JMS develop? Can AT stay healthy? Will Neal stop being a baby? I have little faith the Giants can fix this, its only been 10 years since they had some semblance of a good OL. Will the FAs work out? When was the last guy who did?
Nabers impact? We won how many games with OBJ? WHo in his wildest dreams Nabers hopes he can come close to.
JS better pray that that trio of McCarthy/Nix/Penix all bomb. Because if one of those guys flourishes, it shows his scouting didn't cut it again. I want some continuity but we know Mara is really a fan at heart and will fire JS if they have a bad season. Someone has to take the fall (not him).
Just wanted to get this out, I've lost faith in this FO and I think this year will be another wasted one of frustration and lost time. Damn its too early to drink.
Of course the overreactions are unbearable. But I find it to be just a few posters who have nothing better to do to convince people how smart they are. They don’t wanna talk about football. Even if they claim they do.
It's been every year since I've joined
"This is our year!"
*Giants suck*
"Well...next year will be our year!"
*Off-season, rinse, repeat*
I disagree with you regarding the draft.
They tried to get their guy but the Patriots in the end did not agree to the trade. They tried.
So instead they got the #1 WR in the draft and the #1 safety. That is two of the top 22 starting positions going to the Giants. I think that is a positive.
Next, they may actually have also drafted the best tight end for this team. He is the biggest guy and is the best blocker of the group. An old school TE and not a WR with an extra 20 lbs.
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In comment 16511751 JT039 said:
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I got two articles on betting. So basically more BS from a dupe.
You asked a question. I took the time to answer it, with some citations including an academic take on the subject. I was nice to you. I took some time with it. I shouldn't have bothered. You weren't interested in anything resembling a civilized discourse. What, you don't think my time is valuable? You're an arrogant prick who is trolling people up and down this and other threads.
But you are also a poster child of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You haven't a clue what you are reading and you know just enough to arrogantly flout your ignorance with dopey, ignorant assertions.
Are you the PRODUCER of MANHATTAN?
You have been the worst poster in this site for awhile and on another site. No one cares what you have to say.
Ok, dep.
I suppose it's that time of year when lots of fans deceive themselves. Reality will hit after 1 or 2 games that look exactly like the vast majority of games from the last 5 years.
It's a sad state of affairs. We are on the path to being a team like the Saints or Raiders with an upside of the Steelers. You'd think Giants fans would want more.
I suppose it's that time of year when lots of fans deceive themselves. Reality will hit after 1 or 2 games that look exactly like the vast majority of games from the last 5 years.
It's a sad state of affairs. We are on the path to being a team like the Saints or Raiders with an upside of the Steelers. You'd think Giants fans would want more.
💯
This is the high point of the roller coaster; the best part of the Giants' calendar year. People are getting excited over Nabers signing his contract and catching a crossing route in a walk through.
I remember when Toney was going to team with Barkley to make this team a YAC monster. This year feels like that.
I suppose it's that time of year when lots of fans deceive themselves. Reality will hit after 1 or 2 games that look exactly like the vast majority of games from the last 5 years.
It's a sad state of affairs. We are on the path to being a team like the Saints or Raiders with an upside of the Steelers. You'd think Giants fans would want more.
Well said. I feel the same. Settling for mediocrity instead of searching for answers and a fan base that can't tell the difference.
More nonsense being spewed.
Even though there's a couple of things that happened, that I thought were unfortunate - the loss of Saquon (the hated Eagles sure jumped all over that); not drafting Brock Bowers (who I think will be ALL PRO as a rookie).
I've always been against drafting a QB - screwing up twice, EXCEPT if you really believe on that ONE guy. They gave it their best shot going after Maye, it didn't work out so they went after who they thought was the BPA, can't get mad about that.
Good stuff's happened -
Draft-wise, it's like we scored two #1s with the trade for Burns & draft pick Nabers.
Besides Nabers, the draft picks that I very much looking forward to seeing are safety Tyler Nubin and TE Theo Johnson
Two new coaches - Even though I like Wink's balls-to-the-wall approach, we just don't have the horses. Shane Bowen style is a better fit and will deliver more wins. What I like about Carmen Bricillo, the new Offensive Line Coordinator is that he learned and worked with THE Master O-line coach Dante Scarnecchia at New England. I think we'll see improvement very quickly.
Overall this team is just as good (or better) than the team who snuck-up on the NFL to record nine wins, Daboll, is still a good coach. The Sky's not falling.
From a business POV, it makes sense. After so many years of being shitty, most of us would be happy if we'd had a second year in a row of mediocrity. It'd be several more years before we realized we were stuck in a different rut.
I think that was part of the Jones/Barkley debacle last offseason. Many folks wanted us to take a step backward to rebuild. Management saw how happy we were to have a decent season, and envisioned another one would have us thinking we were back. So rather than jettison 2 players who were not taking us to the promised land, they were re-signed.
The flip side is that slow and steady can win the race, so gradual improvement is a viable strategy. After so many years of sucking, fans don't have the patience for gradual, though.
The Rangers did exactly that and fans were on board with it. The Knicks have had a patient build and the fans absolutely love them, even though they don't have championship ceiling yet.
The Giants could have done this. But its not what they communicate and it's not what their actions indicate
The Rangers did exactly that and fans were on board with it. The Knicks have had a patient build and the fans absolutely love them, even though they don't have championship ceiling yet.
The Giants could have done this. But its not what they communicate and it's not what their actions indicate
Patience is the mantra of loser organizations.
Take the Mets. Under Wilpon they were a loser organization. If Wilpon were still the owner last year they would've made some small buying moves when they were 6 games out of the wild card with the hope of playing "meaningful" games in September.
Cohen saw the reality of the situation and sold at the deadline because he could accurately assess the situation and demonstrated some patience. Will it work? Nobody knows. But the process is good.
The problem with the Giants is they've had backup level QB play for 7 years. We won't know how good our "roster" is until we have a competent QB.
Schoen was willing to give up a ton for the QB he thought was worth it. He didn’t want to settle for QBs atleast a rung below, maybe more. Thats a reasonable stance, but obviously needs to be backed up with continued roster improvement to the point where we are “a qb away” and pounce on whatever opportunity presents itself in 2025.
When your O-line gives up 85 sacks and your running game is facing a 9-man line, all day, while your D-line is a turn-style THAT is defined as mediocrity
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do have the patience. Teams can have a plan, communicate the plan to the fans, and then have their actions match their words.
The Rangers did exactly that and fans were on board with it. The Knicks have had a patient build and the fans absolutely love them, even though they don't have championship ceiling yet.
The Giants could have done this. But its not what they communicate and it's not what their actions indicate
Patience is the mantra of loser organizations.
Schoen was willing to give up a ton for the QB he thought was worth it. He didn’t want to settle for QBs atleast a rung below, maybe more. Thats a reasonable stance, but obviously needs to be backed up with continued roster improvement to the point where we are “a qb away” and pounce on whatever opportunity presents itself in 2025.
That's about right.
Schoen was willing to give up a ton for the QB he thought was worth it. He didn’t want to settle for QBs atleast a rung below, maybe more. Thats a reasonable stance, but obviously needs to be backed up with continued roster improvement to the point where we are “a qb away” and pounce on whatever opportunity presents itself in 2025.
We'll soon find out if selecting Penix, Nix and JJM was settling. If any one of them is great the clock should start ticking on Schoen.
They sure seem overly-patient replacing a failure of a QB who has monopolized the roster for half a decade.
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It's not how this regime is operating, however.
They sure seem overly-patient replacing a failure of a QB who has monopolized the roster for half a decade.
A patient team wouldn't have paid him.
I don't think they're all that interested in replacing him.
This is it. This is the team Schoen and Daboll came in to build. Our expectations should be very high this year.
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such a preposterous claim. It certainly can be, just like being too aggressive and being reckless.
Schoen was willing to give up a ton for the QB he thought was worth it. He didn’t want to settle for QBs atleast a rung below, maybe more. Thats a reasonable stance, but obviously needs to be backed up with continued roster improvement to the point where we are “a qb away” and pounce on whatever opportunity presents itself in 2025.
We'll soon find out if selecting Penix, Nix and JJM was settling. If any one of them is great the clock should start ticking on Schoen.
Not really.
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It's not how this regime is operating, however.
They sure seem overly-patient replacing a failure of a QB who has monopolized the roster for half a decade.
So trying to trade up for Maye is being overly patient?
Interesting take Manhattan/Producer
This is it. This is the team Schoen and Daboll came in to build. Our expectations should be very high this year.
I would add OL instead of WR. We are basically right outside the top ten in OL spend for 2024.
At WR, we are in the 20s for spend.
But I think OL is a premium position/unit. So, that I agree with your point with some re-shuffling.
Insanely enough, we are 4th in the NFL for the QB room. Fourth!
Finally, expectations should absolutely be high around here. People should be expecting 10+ wins with our franchise QB on the mend and Schoen investing even more cash to help his franchise QB.
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They've got major resources tied up in the most expensive positions: QB, LT, WR, EDGE, CB.
This is it. This is the team Schoen and Daboll came in to build. Our expectations should be very high this year.
I would add OL instead of WR. We are basically right outside the top ten in OL spend for 2024.
At WR, we are in the 20s for spend.
But I think OL is a premium position/unit. So, that I agree with your point with some re-shuffling.
Insanely enough, we are 4th in the NFL for the QB room. Fourth!
Finally, expectations should absolutely be high around here. People should be expecting 10+ wins with our franchise QB on the mend and Schoen investing even more cash to help his franchise QB.
I'll put it this way...if they had let Jones walk after 2022 and say, signed Cousins this offseason I'd feel good about winning 10+ games this season. I didn't think this is a bad roster outside the QB. I actually think it's pretty interesting, and I was really encouraged early on when they essentially put Barkley's and McKinney's money into the OL & DL. I really thought they were on their way.
But all of it is undermined by the QB position. If this was their plan it was very clumsily executed.
At the O-line problem, but other than Thomas, this strategy hasn't yielded high benefits.
On the defensive side of the ball, they gave 2024's 2nd round pick, swapping this year's 5th rounders plus sending next years's 2nd round choice to Carolina (for linebacker Brian Burns). I wonder if they can be just as creative in the future in getting top tier vet talent for the O-line. (in other words "pics for vets").
Seems like the Panthers like to do this, recall that's how Christian McCaffery ended-up at the 49ers.
The O-line has been an unending nightmare for a long time (I thought rock-bottom was when Hal Hunter was here, I was wrong, Bobby Johnson was worse). This year, I think they've found the beginning of the answer in Carmen Bricillo, well see.
2) They wisely took an intentional veteran route to fill OL. They have a ton of yet to develop drafted OL already. And they have guys who have successfully started games in the league on the bench.
3) The defensive pass rush should be more fun and more like Giants football and if possible they continue to upgrade. I'm intrgued by the younger players already on the roster like Riley. Interesting they signed Simmons back. How will they use him?
4) At TE there is addition by subtraction. Waller won't be back. I think that boosts Bellinger. And they have a very competent blocking TE. last year their blocking TE went down in camp. This year they have 2 in camp.
5) year 1 in rd 3 The picks were young. flott may have been the youngest player in that draft. This year they drafted older players RDS 2-6. Players with lots of game experience and high floors. This draft class has a better chance to make more immediate impact.
6) Arch is only 2 years away!!!
Also JS has been a disaster so far starting with declining Barkleys option. He isn’t gentlemen level bad so we are happy, but let’s be serious he has had some absolutely massive wiffs (jones option, Neal, slayton over love, Campbell signing, jones contract, bradberry drama and no trade, Barkley drama and no trade, etc.) . I personally think the coaching staff has been able to overcome what is a deficient roster to get the wins it has for the last two years.
- Neal? I don't agree here. He was unquestionably the best OL prospect in that draft and the Giants were in a dire situation. He hasn't worked out, so far, but grading it now doesn't reflect on the consensus at the time.
- Slayton over Love? They reportedly offered Love enough that was more than what SEA offered. He wanted to go elsewhere.
- Parris? One year try and it flopped. My issue is mainly with how Daboll and Kafka used him.
- Bradberry? They were in a rough spot with his contract and couldn't get out any other way. No other team was taking on his huge cap hit.
- Barkley no trade? I do agree here absolutely. I'm not sure if Joe wanted to to truly re-sign him back in the midseason time, but I figured by the time he re-signed his 1-yr deal last summer, he was gone after. Mara input? I can't tell one way or another.
Also JS has been a disaster so far starting with declining Barkleys option. He isn’t gentlemen level bad so we are happy, but let’s be serious he has had some absolutely massive wiffs (jones option, Neal, slayton over love, Campbell signing, jones contract, bradberry drama and no trade, Barkley drama and no trade, etc.) . I personally think the coaching staff has been able to overcome what is a deficient roster to get the wins it has for the last two years.
Barkley's option was picked up, by Gettleman prior to SB's 4th year. He played the 5th yr on the option in Schoen's first year, which is how SB and DJ were up for a new contract at the same time. Option has to be picked up prior to yr 4.
Jones was not good enough, nor entirely healthy when the option had to be exercised. They tried hard to re-sign SB, so that they could tag DJ, but SB wanted more than Schoen was willing to spend. It can be argued they should have overspent on SB with a second contract, and put the tag on DJ, but that isn't what you said.
Most of the whiffs have explanations attached, but some have validity. Waller is on the legitimate whiff list.
Schoen made some poor decisions, but disaster is over stating it.
The Giants have been 3rd worst team in NFL over the past 5 years at 29-53-1 .
The 16th team in that time is 43-40 - the Cleveland Browns. That’s how far away they are from being mediocre.
The Giants are the 3rd worst team in NFL over last decade at 60-102-1. The 16th team in that time is the Tennessee Titans at 77-86.
That’s how far away from mediocrity they are.
It’s important to have a true understanding of where they are.
The Rangers did exactly that and fans were on board with it. The Knicks have had a patient build and the fans absolutely love them, even though they don't have championship ceiling yet.
The Giants could have done this. But its not what they communicate and it's not what their actions indicate
Most of the NYR fan base cheered the 2018 letter.
The Giants hired Gettleman who traded picks for Ogletree, signed Solder, and drafted Barkley.
Schoen indicated he was going to need time. Then he admittedly accelerated the rebuild last night, signed Jones to a monster deal, etc. It's insane to think this is a team that asked for time or is executing on some long-term vision.
Sure thing Manhattan/Producer😂😂
What’s next…telling us that mock drafts are data points again
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they are returning a failed QB for his 6th season and haven't drafted an alternative, or even a back up, during his entire tenure. It's not enough to *try to* acquire Drake Maye. Drake Maye wasn't the only QB available. If that's the plan: Drake Maye or bust, and if it's bust it is Daniel Jones all over again. Then that plan is not meeting the urgency and stakes of the Giants' situation. If they were going to pass on the next 3 QBs (Penix, Nix, JJM) Then they absolutely should have figured out a way to bring in a developmental QB. They are slow-rolling the QB position, and their desire for something great is getting in the way of upgrading the position to good.
Sure thing Manhattan/Producer😂😂
What’s next…telling us that mock drafts are data points again
Sure thing JT039.
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In comment 16512475 Darwinian said:
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they are returning a failed QB for his 6th season and haven't drafted an alternative, or even a back up, during his entire tenure. It's not enough to *try to* acquire Drake Maye. Drake Maye wasn't the only QB available. If that's the plan: Drake Maye or bust, and if it's bust it is Daniel Jones all over again. Then that plan is not meeting the urgency and stakes of the Giants' situation. If they were going to pass on the next 3 QBs (Penix, Nix, JJM) Then they absolutely should have figured out a way to bring in a developmental QB. They are slow-rolling the QB position, and their desire for something great is getting in the way of upgrading the position to good.
Sure thing Manhattan/Producer😂😂
What’s next…telling us that mock drafts are data points again
Sure thing JT039.
Much like your opinions - you’re way off base again. Good try though. Tell us how the cap doesn’t matter again…
Doesn't matter that there are 21 other positions on the field. Ignore all the other improvements and upgrades - they really weren't necessary. Sadly this is the position of about a dozen other posters.
Yeah, I wanted a QB. Yes likely all of them are an upgrade to Jones. But how much of an upgrade? It is always stated the the draft is rarely for the upcoming season.
But carry on - because that is exactly what you are doing - carrying on like a child.
The Giants have been 3rd worst team in NFL over the past 5 years at 29-53-1 .
The 16th team in that time is 43-40 - the Cleveland Browns. That’s how far away they are from being mediocre.
The Giants are the 3rd worst team in NFL over last decade at 60-102-1. The 16th team in that time is the Tennessee Titans at 77-86.
That’s how far away from mediocrity they are.
It’s important to have a true understanding of where they are.
Hard truth sounds like a misnomer; how about misleading cherry-picked stats.
Fact is talking about the last 5 years is totally misleading because when broken down in the first three years of that sequence the Giants were truly an awful 13-34 which if wasn't dead last in the NFL was pretty damn close. In the past two years though the Giants have been 16-19-1 as they have added quality players. And as several people have noted you don't usually go from 13-34 to the Super Bowl in 1-2 seasons. As we pointed out in another thread the Giants were something like 25-45 in George Young's first 5 years here.
The QB situation is what it is, but the roster has a lot more talent.
Moved on by the end of Day 2.
Excited for the 2024 season.
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whining about not drafting JJ McCarthy. I wanted Daniel Jones gone probably earlier than most fans, but not at the cost of making the exact same mistake again by reaching for a QB at 6.
I wanted him at 6.
Moved on by the end of Day 2.
Excited for the 2024 season.
and I can appreciate a difference of opinion regarding whether McCarthy was worth taking a shot at with #6. But this stuff about Schoen and Daboll not having a plan, or being completely incompetent, is just over the top. It's clear that everyone knows that Daniel Jones is not the ideal starter for this team - how to rectify the problem at QB without setting the team back another 3 years is not a simple task.