No I wont turn in my fan card, still will root for them but man it is bleak in my eyes. And as I thought through the draft and offseason, I think JS is to blame which makes it even darker.
It starts with Jones who I like. After watching him get outplayed by Tyrod Taylor and Devito how can you have faith? Aside from his injuries, what has he shown you that he can overcome adversity vs good teams? I wanted him to take that step last year but he went in reverse and I believe his head is screwed up. I do blame Judge for him and a terrible cast but it doesn't mean he isn't broken goods.
I wanted Penix but I would have been fine with McCarthy/Nix. No way they are worse than Jones imo. But they have upside or at least Kevin O connell and Sean Payton think so. Two guys who know QBs a little bit.
The Burns trade which sounded good but I wanted Huff. Knowing the Giants could have signed Huff and Armstrong for the same money and mitigated injury risk without losing that 2nd rd pick? A 4 man rotation of Thibs/Huff/Armstrong/AO? Yes I preferred that.
And that #2 pick? holy crap they had their pick of CBs, Mckistry, Lassiter, Melton, ALL there. Or how about Jackson JOhnson? A OG/OC sound good?
Then at #47 they draft Mckinney's replacement - oh great! Let's not sign Julian Love a very good homegrown player to save money to sign Mckinney. Mckinney has a good season and is now too EXPENSIVE? So draft another S with a premium pick? How about a DT here? Or Adonai Mitchell? SO happy we still have Slayton!
The OL will dictate a bunch how this goes. Will JMS develop? Can AT stay healthy? Will Neal stop being a baby? I have little faith the Giants can fix this, its only been 10 years since they had some semblance of a good OL. Will the FAs work out? When was the last guy who did?
Nabers impact? We won how many games with OBJ? WHo in his wildest dreams Nabers hopes he can come close to.
JS better pray that that trio of McCarthy/Nix/Penix all bomb. Because if one of those guys flourishes, it shows his scouting didn't cut it again. I want some continuity but we know Mara is really a fan at heart and will fire JS if they have a bad season. Someone has to take the fall (not him).
Just wanted to get this out, I've lost faith in this FO and I think this year will be another wasted one of frustration and lost time. Damn its too early to drink.
To each their own.
It works.
As for the 2nd round pick. You do realize the Giants had a glaring hole at S right? Yes Safety is not as important financially as corner or DE, but they would have opted to re-sign McKinney if he wasn't asking for $17M. Plus who knows how much faith was lost with Schoen and Daboll when McKinney decided to go on that ATV cruise. Maybe they feel less worried about the fourth DL on the front than the defensive backfield. They are more easy to plug and play. Once cuts hit in August or September, a 3 tech will be available. A starting S won't be.
You don't know that Huff wanted to play here. If he didn't that would mean an overpay or that it was simply impossible.
Same thing. They offered Love more money than he ended up taking elsewhere.
There's a lot of talk about getting tougher in the trenches and that's exactly what NYG did. They didn't bet on rookies to do it either, they went out and got guys who have done it in the NFL. The WRs are fast and young.
I'm not happy with the QB situation either, but IMO, this roster is vastly improved from where Gettleman left it. I'm willing to give Schoen a mulligan on the DJ extension given the overall trend of the roster.
+1
a) But the scouting and draft process are getting modernized.
b) This may be the #1 team in Giants history in terms of team speed. Yeah the Giants aren't near the top of league in terms of speed, but for Giants this is a new day concept.
c) as mentioned above, Burns could really change the shape of the defense because now offensives have 3 impact players to game plan around.
Bottom line, this team is improved from the one JS & BD inherited from their predecessors.
Love was offered a contract and didn't take it, and had to take less money, and Love could not replace McKinney, he is not that level of talent
Love was offered a contract and didn't take it, and had to take less money, and Love could not replace McKinney, he is not that level of talent
sorry that should say, That is where the money from Mckinney went. So you would have to do the same in your plan
Guess what? If the Giants suck again.... life goes on.
And Devito? That Jets game was superb! And NO? And these games, they had a better offensive line and receivers than Jones had. And oh yeah, Barkley was also injured and missed how many games when Jones was starting.
I hate making excuses for Jones, but I don't care how good your QB is, your not performing well given those circumstances.
Wink Martindale is a problem - who hired him?
The weather is nice. I suggest some smallmouth fishing.
With the approach Schoen is taking, this needs to be a ready made situation for a QB in 2025.
They aren't going 5-12 or 6-11 barring a complete collapse injury wise on D or along the OL (again)
The D is going to be good. Might even be very good. The O won't be great by any means, probably won't even be good but I think it can play well enough to win games.
7-10 wins. As long as Andrew Thomas plays in most games (gonna be greedy and ask for all of them) we're gonna be fine up front. Enjoy the season. Try to. Fucking get Daniel Jones out of your head.
I don't agree with some of this stuff but I do agree this is the least excited I have been going into a season in a long time.
Freshen up your resume and start submitting them to NFL teams to be their next GM, because obviously you know what players to draft and not to draft, what players to sign and not sign and on and on.
Nothing better than a fan who thinks they have all of the answers without all of the information and can't get excited because they didn't do what they wanted. You must be disappointed a lot in life.
Not happy about the positions they drafted is flawed logic. You want players. Not positions. They got 2 guys in rounds 1-2 that were the highest rated at their positions. They also filled needs. If I had a dollar for every time fans went nuts about the Giants drafting the wrong position only to see those same fans conveniently forget that anger once the rookies get on the field...
The roster is younger and better than 2022. I love watching teams like this come together. I think it can be a fun year.
You win with star power. Giants finally have some on D. The O is still a work in progress but there are WRs here now that we can build around. And we have the left tackle. Important pieces are in place.
There are definitely growing pains to come, but think about it, this team is really only three draft classes deep right now. A significant core of their draft classes (particularly the first two since we just had draft #3) look like their are many more keepers than not in my eyes. I think JS/BD will really need five drafts for a proper valuation -- especially since it really takes three years to assess a draft class. That will show the meat and potatoes of whether this FO has done it's job.
Think about the stars that developed on the Giants like Tuck, Strahan and CWebb. Even Coughlin's Oline didn't really set until three + years of play and roster tinkering.
So for my money this team is a Work in Progress with some exciting parts that have been and continue to grow. I need to watch their development and how things progress. There will be some interesting pieces to watch this season and going forward for those reasons. And it will be interesting to see how the new coaches meld and if noticeable change is going to happen because of them.
One thing I do like about Daboll in particular is that he got those boys out there to play - even in the midst of a miserable season last year and a ton of cluster-fucks.
SO as concerned as I am about the roster holes on this team - I am also excited about the talent that is starting to assemble under this regime and I look forward to seeing how that plays out. I do think JS has assembled a good team for the FO and that they are very professional with a good set of critical eyes, so I am not ready to throw them under the bus yet.
They didn’t like the QBs, at some point you need to move on. Jones, who you said in your OP that you liked, is our 2024 QB and he’s either going to revert to 2022 or continue his poor 2023 play. You’ll just have to wait until September to find out.
As for the QBs we passed on, different situations play a big factor especially for imperfect prospects. Unless one of them becomes an all pro I won’t feel like Schoen failed.
I think the O.P. was referring to that first 2nd rounder that we traded for Burns.
Is it unfair to ask JS and staff to scout/prepare/execute a plan to do this? To find the guy? What do they get paid for?
I think a modest improvement to last season's 6 win season is reasonable to expect. I think we'll be very competitive in the following season.
Joe Schoen isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
The likelihood that Penix, Nix, and McCarthy are all better than DJ is near zero. Much more likely that they are all worse. Most likely outcome one is a little or a lot better one is a total bust and one somewhere in the middle. But our management clearly thought none of the three was a good bet to be a lot better than DJ. Or Drew Lock if you prefer.
Offensively there are a lot more question marks. But that’s always going to be the case when you have a lot of young developing players like Neal, JMS, Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Bellinger. I know many are pissed about the QB situation, but there will be more drafts.
The key for this year in my opinion is to develop this young talent and pray everyone stays healthy. A 7 or 8 win season where we are competing in every contest and where we see nice improvement in the young players would actually be a relatively successful result at this stage of the teams rebuild.
Next offseason, get your QB and start pushing for relevancy again.
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but getting deeper out to sea.
They didn’t like the QBs, at some point you need to move on. Jones, who you said in your OP that you liked, is our 2024 QB and he’s either going to revert to 2022 or continue his poor 2023 play. You’ll just have to wait until September to find out.
As for the QBs we passed on, different situations play a big factor especially for imperfect prospects. Unless one of them becomes an all pro I won’t feel like Schoen failed.
Big fan of Jones, rooted hard for him, I still will. But I think he's broken in the head. And he's not even to blame for it, he's been demolished by poor coaching/bad OL. I thought he needed a fresh start somewhere else tbh.
I'm not sold as I've said ad nauseum on Jones going forward (and I'm not going to post anymore in the Jones bait threads by either side) and I think we have a new QB in here in next 2 years, but for now, he can "win some games" if held upright and stays healthy and throws down the field more.
I think the defense might end up being a bit more the work in progress than people think. Lot of new talent in key spots and some figuring out to do there with how secondary gets used.
But the front 7 looks very intriguing.
detroit isn't trading aidan hutchinson for huff/armstrong, and if burns plays to his best level he can be that good as well. he is a better player than thibs by a good margin (who is a better player than those guys by a good margin).
an extra 2nd would have been great, but in your scenario it would have also come at the expense of the likely 4th round comp pick for mckinney. so not entirely free. is a melton so different from phillips? maybe, maybe not (jeremiah had melton 46, phillips 51 in his final ranks). if we consider them comparable then the net result ends up whoever was available at #70 to whoever they take at pick #96 or so next year.
so the majority of your non-qb gripes are just swapping different names but seemingly addressing the same positions with similar resources.
the QB as usual is the main difference. I wont look to change your mind on that, though as someone who was a JJM fan the vikings (and nobody else) being willing to move up for maye but not jjm helped clarify for me that there was a clear top 3 he wasnt in. i think i was a bigger fan of jjm's talent than most and i think he was a better prospect coming out than jones, but i also think there is a fair baseline comparison for both to Alex Smith (along with a hope for upside beyond that). this staff chose the devil they knew, and while i may have still picked JJM instead right now it's a coin flip how that decision plays out in 2024 since rookie qbs are far from sure things.
and while i agree expecting nabers to be obj or chase right away may be too much, there is no reason to believe he cant be like devonta, waddle, lamb and instantly change this offense.
I have no interest in watching another season of Daniel Jones.