No I wont turn in my fan card, still will root for them but man it is bleak in my eyes. And as I thought through the draft and offseason, I think JS is to blame which makes it even darker.
It starts with Jones who I like. After watching him get outplayed by Tyrod Taylor and Devito how can you have faith? Aside from his injuries, what has he shown you that he can overcome adversity vs good teams? I wanted him to take that step last year but he went in reverse and I believe his head is screwed up. I do blame Judge for him and a terrible cast but it doesn't mean he isn't broken goods.
I wanted Penix but I would have been fine with McCarthy/Nix. No way they are worse than Jones imo. But they have upside or at least Kevin O connell and Sean Payton think so. Two guys who know QBs a little bit.
The Burns trade which sounded good but I wanted Huff. Knowing the Giants could have signed Huff and Armstrong for the same money and mitigated injury risk without losing that 2nd rd pick? A 4 man rotation of Thibs/Huff/Armstrong/AO? Yes I preferred that.
And that #2 pick? holy crap they had their pick of CBs, Mckistry, Lassiter, Melton, ALL there. Or how about Jackson JOhnson? A OG/OC sound good?
Then at #47 they draft Mckinney's replacement - oh great! Let's not sign Julian Love a very good homegrown player to save money to sign Mckinney. Mckinney has a good season and is now too EXPENSIVE? So draft another S with a premium pick? How about a DT here? Or Adonai Mitchell? SO happy we still have Slayton!
The OL will dictate a bunch how this goes. Will JMS develop? Can AT stay healthy? Will Neal stop being a baby? I have little faith the Giants can fix this, its only been 10 years since they had some semblance of a good OL. Will the FAs work out? When was the last guy who did?
Nabers impact? We won how many games with OBJ? WHo in his wildest dreams Nabers hopes he can come close to.
JS better pray that that trio of McCarthy/Nix/Penix all bomb. Because if one of those guys flourishes, it shows his scouting didn't cut it again. I want some continuity but we know Mara is really a fan at heart and will fire JS if they have a bad season. Someone has to take the fall (not him).
Just wanted to get this out, I've lost faith in this FO and I think this year will be another wasted one of frustration and lost time. Damn its too early to drink.
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It's not how this regime is operating, however.
They sure seem overly-patient replacing a failure of a QB who has monopolized the roster for half a decade.
So trying to trade up for Maye is being overly patient?
Interesting take Manhattan/Producer
This is it. This is the team Schoen and Daboll came in to build. Our expectations should be very high this year.
I would add OL instead of WR. We are basically right outside the top ten in OL spend for 2024.
At WR, we are in the 20s for spend.
But I think OL is a premium position/unit. So, that I agree with your point with some re-shuffling.
Insanely enough, we are 4th in the NFL for the QB room. Fourth!
Finally, expectations should absolutely be high around here. People should be expecting 10+ wins with our franchise QB on the mend and Schoen investing even more cash to help his franchise QB.
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They've got major resources tied up in the most expensive positions: QB, LT, WR, EDGE, CB.
This is it. This is the team Schoen and Daboll came in to build. Our expectations should be very high this year.
I would add OL instead of WR. We are basically right outside the top ten in OL spend for 2024.
At WR, we are in the 20s for spend.
But I think OL is a premium position/unit. So, that I agree with your point with some re-shuffling.
Insanely enough, we are 4th in the NFL for the QB room. Fourth!
Finally, expectations should absolutely be high around here. People should be expecting 10+ wins with our franchise QB on the mend and Schoen investing even more cash to help his franchise QB.
I'll put it this way...if they had let Jones walk after 2022 and say, signed Cousins this offseason I'd feel good about winning 10+ games this season. I didn't think this is a bad roster outside the QB. I actually think it's pretty interesting, and I was really encouraged early on when they essentially put Barkley's and McKinney's money into the OL & DL. I really thought they were on their way.
But all of it is undermined by the QB position. If this was their plan it was very clumsily executed.
At the O-line problem, but other than Thomas, this strategy hasn't yielded high benefits.
On the defensive side of the ball, they gave 2024's 2nd round pick, swapping this year's 5th rounders plus sending next years's 2nd round choice to Carolina (for linebacker Brian Burns). I wonder if they can be just as creative in the future in getting top tier vet talent for the O-line. (in other words "pics for vets").
Seems like the Panthers like to do this, recall that's how Christian McCaffery ended-up at the 49ers.
The O-line has been an unending nightmare for a long time (I thought rock-bottom was when Hal Hunter was here, I was wrong, Bobby Johnson was worse). This year, I think they've found the beginning of the answer in Carmen Bricillo, well see.
2) They wisely took an intentional veteran route to fill OL. They have a ton of yet to develop drafted OL already. And they have guys who have successfully started games in the league on the bench.
3) The defensive pass rush should be more fun and more like Giants football and if possible they continue to upgrade. I'm intrgued by the younger players already on the roster like Riley. Interesting they signed Simmons back. How will they use him?
4) At TE there is addition by subtraction. Waller won't be back. I think that boosts Bellinger. And they have a very competent blocking TE. last year their blocking TE went down in camp. This year they have 2 in camp.
5) year 1 in rd 3 The picks were young. flott may have been the youngest player in that draft. This year they drafted older players RDS 2-6. Players with lots of game experience and high floors. This draft class has a better chance to make more immediate impact.
6) Arch is only 2 years away!!!
Also JS has been a disaster so far starting with declining Barkleys option. He isn’t gentlemen level bad so we are happy, but let’s be serious he has had some absolutely massive wiffs (jones option, Neal, slayton over love, Campbell signing, jones contract, bradberry drama and no trade, Barkley drama and no trade, etc.) . I personally think the coaching staff has been able to overcome what is a deficient roster to get the wins it has for the last two years.
- Neal? I don't agree here. He was unquestionably the best OL prospect in that draft and the Giants were in a dire situation. He hasn't worked out, so far, but grading it now doesn't reflect on the consensus at the time.
- Slayton over Love? They reportedly offered Love enough that was more than what SEA offered. He wanted to go elsewhere.
- Parris? One year try and it flopped. My issue is mainly with how Daboll and Kafka used him.
- Bradberry? They were in a rough spot with his contract and couldn't get out any other way. No other team was taking on his huge cap hit.
- Barkley no trade? I do agree here absolutely. I'm not sure if Joe wanted to to truly re-sign him back in the midseason time, but I figured by the time he re-signed his 1-yr deal last summer, he was gone after. Mara input? I can't tell one way or another.
Also JS has been a disaster so far starting with declining Barkleys option. He isn’t gentlemen level bad so we are happy, but let’s be serious he has had some absolutely massive wiffs (jones option, Neal, slayton over love, Campbell signing, jones contract, bradberry drama and no trade, Barkley drama and no trade, etc.) . I personally think the coaching staff has been able to overcome what is a deficient roster to get the wins it has for the last two years.
Barkley's option was picked up, by Gettleman prior to SB's 4th year. He played the 5th yr on the option in Schoen's first year, which is how SB and DJ were up for a new contract at the same time. Option has to be picked up prior to yr 4.
Jones was not good enough, nor entirely healthy when the option had to be exercised. They tried hard to re-sign SB, so that they could tag DJ, but SB wanted more than Schoen was willing to spend. It can be argued they should have overspent on SB with a second contract, and put the tag on DJ, but that isn't what you said.
Most of the whiffs have explanations attached, but some have validity. Waller is on the legitimate whiff list.
Schoen made some poor decisions, but disaster is over stating it.
The Giants have been 3rd worst team in NFL over the past 5 years at 29-53-1 .
The 16th team in that time is 43-40 - the Cleveland Browns. That’s how far away they are from being mediocre.
The Giants are the 3rd worst team in NFL over last decade at 60-102-1. The 16th team in that time is the Tennessee Titans at 77-86.
That’s how far away from mediocrity they are.
It’s important to have a true understanding of where they are.
The Rangers did exactly that and fans were on board with it. The Knicks have had a patient build and the fans absolutely love them, even though they don't have championship ceiling yet.
The Giants could have done this. But its not what they communicate and it's not what their actions indicate
Most of the NYR fan base cheered the 2018 letter.
The Giants hired Gettleman who traded picks for Ogletree, signed Solder, and drafted Barkley.
Schoen indicated he was going to need time. Then he admittedly accelerated the rebuild last night, signed Jones to a monster deal, etc. It's insane to think this is a team that asked for time or is executing on some long-term vision.
Sure thing Manhattan/Producer😂😂
What’s next…telling us that mock drafts are data points again
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they are returning a failed QB for his 6th season and haven't drafted an alternative, or even a back up, during his entire tenure. It's not enough to *try to* acquire Drake Maye. Drake Maye wasn't the only QB available. If that's the plan: Drake Maye or bust, and if it's bust it is Daniel Jones all over again. Then that plan is not meeting the urgency and stakes of the Giants' situation. If they were going to pass on the next 3 QBs (Penix, Nix, JJM) Then they absolutely should have figured out a way to bring in a developmental QB. They are slow-rolling the QB position, and their desire for something great is getting in the way of upgrading the position to good.
Sure thing Manhattan/Producer😂😂
What’s next…telling us that mock drafts are data points again
Sure thing JT039.
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In comment 16512475 Darwinian said:
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they are returning a failed QB for his 6th season and haven't drafted an alternative, or even a back up, during his entire tenure. It's not enough to *try to* acquire Drake Maye. Drake Maye wasn't the only QB available. If that's the plan: Drake Maye or bust, and if it's bust it is Daniel Jones all over again. Then that plan is not meeting the urgency and stakes of the Giants' situation. If they were going to pass on the next 3 QBs (Penix, Nix, JJM) Then they absolutely should have figured out a way to bring in a developmental QB. They are slow-rolling the QB position, and their desire for something great is getting in the way of upgrading the position to good.
Sure thing Manhattan/Producer😂😂
What’s next…telling us that mock drafts are data points again
Sure thing JT039.
Much like your opinions - you’re way off base again. Good try though. Tell us how the cap doesn’t matter again…
Doesn't matter that there are 21 other positions on the field. Ignore all the other improvements and upgrades - they really weren't necessary. Sadly this is the position of about a dozen other posters.
Yeah, I wanted a QB. Yes likely all of them are an upgrade to Jones. But how much of an upgrade? It is always stated the the draft is rarely for the upcoming season.
But carry on - because that is exactly what you are doing - carrying on like a child.
The Giants have been 3rd worst team in NFL over the past 5 years at 29-53-1 .
The 16th team in that time is 43-40 - the Cleveland Browns. That’s how far away they are from being mediocre.
The Giants are the 3rd worst team in NFL over last decade at 60-102-1. The 16th team in that time is the Tennessee Titans at 77-86.
That’s how far away from mediocrity they are.
It’s important to have a true understanding of where they are.
Hard truth sounds like a misnomer; how about misleading cherry-picked stats.
Fact is talking about the last 5 years is totally misleading because when broken down in the first three years of that sequence the Giants were truly an awful 13-34 which if wasn't dead last in the NFL was pretty damn close. In the past two years though the Giants have been 16-19-1 as they have added quality players. And as several people have noted you don't usually go from 13-34 to the Super Bowl in 1-2 seasons. As we pointed out in another thread the Giants were something like 25-45 in George Young's first 5 years here.
The QB situation is what it is, but the roster has a lot more talent.
Moved on by the end of Day 2.
Excited for the 2024 season.
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whining about not drafting JJ McCarthy. I wanted Daniel Jones gone probably earlier than most fans, but not at the cost of making the exact same mistake again by reaching for a QB at 6.
I wanted him at 6.
Moved on by the end of Day 2.
Excited for the 2024 season.
and I can appreciate a difference of opinion regarding whether McCarthy was worth taking a shot at with #6. But this stuff about Schoen and Daboll not having a plan, or being completely incompetent, is just over the top. It's clear that everyone knows that Daniel Jones is not the ideal starter for this team - how to rectify the problem at QB without setting the team back another 3 years is not a simple task.