I see a lot of talk about the rebuild being delayed by the unexpected 2022 etc. and how we're years away, but if you look at the roster, every single key contributor was either drafted, or signed by Schoen:
QB - Jones, Lock
RB - Gray, Tracy
WR - Nabers
WR - Robinson
WR - Hyatt/Slayton
TE - Bellinger, Johnson
LT - Thomas
LG - Runyan, Ezeudu
C - Schmitz
RG - Eluemunor
RT - Neal
---------
DT - Nunes-Roches
NT - Dexter
OLB - Burns
ILB - Okereke
ILB - McFadden
OLB - Thibs
CB - Banks
CB - Phillips
CB - Flott
S - Nubin
S - Pinnock
We're 3 years into this thing. They've hand-picked the entire roster. 3 Top 10 picks. 3 max contracts. And more big $$$ deals including the QB. I see expectations are generally low coming off such a miserable year, but you can't argue the "everything that could've gone wrong did" angle. Lots of bad luck.
The point? I think it's fair to expect solid results this year. Given the significant resources invested in this roster, why shouldn't we expect a playoff team, bare minimum?
7-10 with a CPOY caliber season from Jones, and in the playoff hunt in December? I'd give Daboll a 99% chance of returning.
squaring 7-10 with being "in a playoff hunt" is where you lose me but it doesnt matter.
i think getting to 8 or 9 wins with jones sucking is a better outcome for daboll than 7 or fewer wins but a good season for jones. do you disagree with that?
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In comment 16513447 Mbavaro said:
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So it’s Schoen’s fault that literally every O line pick he has made has gotten hurt
No, but it's Schoen's fault that nearly every OL outside of Thomas has rarely played well when healthy.
Some of that I also lay at the feet of the coaching staff. They spent too much time in the offseason trying to tweak to find the perfect combination rather than using the limited reps to develop chemistry.
4 of the 5 positions were set going into the year
At the same time….need to develop position flexibility
Have no problem with that
At the same time…when you still can’t pick up a stunt in week 17…that is a coaching issue and hopefully that will be fixed
Combine injuries, lack of experience and terrible coaching….not a recipe for success
This year will tell a lot
This really comes across as a lot of excuse making for Schoen. I just don't think it's wise to dispel the idea that Schoen just might not be good at evaluating and building an OL. Which is why I raised the point in the first place that OL should be considered a major issue attached to Schoen heading into 2024.
Didn't Bobby Johnson come with questions when Daboll brought him over?
No doubt worst hire of the staff.
i think getting to 8 or 9 wins with jones sucking is a better outcome for daboll than 7 or fewer wins but a good season for jones. do you disagree with that?
I think the Giants were technically eliminated from the playoffs week 16 last year. So a 7-win team could conceivably be in real contention week 17 or 18. Which avoids the empty seats in December scenario you referenced above.
So my rough guesses:
Playoffs = Definitely Back
7ish+ Wins = Likely Back
4-7ish Wins + some additional embarrassment = Likely Gone
0-4ish Wins = Definitely Gone
Schoen started with AT at left tackle and he had the benefit of him having his first season being healthy. If Neal played to his draft slot the Giants would be in a pretty good spot.
No doubt worst hire of the staff.
The Bills had mixed results under Johnson. Underwhelming in 2019, well regarded in 2020, middle-of-the-road in 2021.
Name me a head coach where 💯 of their initial hires worked out?
I’ll be waiting
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Combine injuries, lack of experience and terrible coaching….not a recipe for success
This year will tell a lot
This really comes across as a lot of excuse making for Schoen. I just don't think it's wise to dispel the idea that Schoen just might not be good at evaluating and building an OL. Which is why I raised the point in the first place that OL should be considered a major issue attached to Schoen heading into 2024.
Facts….which they are…aren’t excuses….
If they didn’t have health issues and terrible coaching….then my opinion would be different
Give them a year of good health and good coaching…then we will see
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In comment 16513337 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16513330 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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If Jones gets injured & the Giants have to eat the $23 million on his ‘25 salary…
Oh boy. BBI would go nuclear.
I doubt it. The majority will go along with whatever they do. There will be initial anger, and then whomever they draft will be the greatest thing ever the following May.
I know that it can feel that way, but for most is less about "going along" and more about moving on.
If I can't fix it, I'm not going to invest in anger. (Aside from initial shock)
I think you can move on and still accept the people making the decisions are making bad decisions. I try to look at the situation as though I were looking at a team I didn't care about.
If you took the Giants' exact situation and put it on the Seahawks or Jaguars, I'd have no problem saying that team is a complete mess from ownership on down. Why should the Giants be any different?
I guess that I just enjoy the process of watching it all happen, have a few opinions and prepare for the season.
Once the team is set, Im done with the FO decisions and spend more energy on the season and the task at hand.
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squaring 7-10 with being "in a playoff hunt" is where you lose me but it doesnt matter.
i think getting to 8 or 9 wins with jones sucking is a better outcome for daboll than 7 or fewer wins but a good season for jones. do you disagree with that?
I think the Giants were technically eliminated from the playoffs week 16 last year. So a 7-win team could conceivably be in real contention week 17 or 18. Which avoids the empty seats in December scenario you referenced above.
So my rough guesses:
Playoffs = Definitely Back
7ish+ Wins = Likely Back
4-7ish Wins + some additional embarrassment = Likely Gone
0-4ish Wins = Definitely Gone
i think you are getting a little too caught up in numbers.
improvement = definitely back
stagnation = probably not back
regression = definitely not back
even 8 wins feels like stagnation to me since they showed they can do better than that with a worse roster in 2022.
8 wins could be a replay of last year except with a healthy gano to make the 40 yarder vs jets and enough leg to beat rams.