| Dan and Nick dive into the debate that’s taken over Giants Twitter since the conclusion of the 2024 NFL Draft – should GM Joe Schoen be on the hot seat heading into 2024? They take a 30,000-foot view to start before diving into a look back on each of their five biggest takeaways after the 2021 season heading into the 2022 offseason. Then, they dissect each move Schoen has made in each of his two offseasons, the biggest deciding factors and more before circling back to discuss what would have to happen in 2024 for Schoen to be on the hot seat for them, and potentially for them to say – “that’s it, it’s time to move on” and what he can do to secure his seat for the future. |
- Bidded against ourselves re-signing Jones and is massively overpaid
There's some other missteps but no GM is batting 1000. I like just about everything else he's done here. I was annoyed he didn't extend McKinney but he used that capital to fortify the OL and DL. They had a conviction on Drake Maye and tried to move up to get him but Pats didn't budge. I liked that he didn't force QB by drafting McCarthy or Penix (although it will suck if those guys are really good)
Daboll, shouldn't be either, unless there is a repeat of the infighting amongst the coaching staff and he loses the team.
I think we're going to be a team that competes respectably on the field but lose in the close ones and end up with 6-9 wins 9 being the high side obv.
Chris Ballard has been in Indy for what feels like forever now. Is he on the hot seat every year?
The construction of last years oline devastated this team.
Daboll didn't look like he had this team ready to play game 1.
Also not having a competent returner on the roster is also malpractice on his part.
So yeah hot seats are appropriate at this point heading into year 3.
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He's as attached to Jones as siamese twins.
Tim McDonnell
Ronnie Barnes
Before even thinking about Schoen & Daboll
He's as attached to Jones as siamese twins.
So trying to trade for his replacement is “tripling down”?
The nonsense spin never ends
I think this is a crucial season for these 2.
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JFC, the guy just tripled down on his QB, Daniel Jones.
He's as attached to Jones as siamese twins.
So trying to trade for his replacement is “tripling down”?
The nonsense spin never ends
Offering a trade they knew would never get accepted and not pivoting to any other QB in this draft is tripling down on Jones after signing him to a big contract and not drafting a QB in 2023
Whether you like Mara or not, he's the guy who had the conviction to hire Schoen. And aside from 1 rough season, where injuries took too much of a toll, and given the state of the Eagles and Cowboys, wouldn't you keep the faith in your hire? Especially after winning a playoff game in his first season. Horrible take.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
NYG have been very patient with GM's. GY deserved it. JR should have been let go years before he was. Mara may have regretted firing him in season which partly contributed to Dave finishing out his contract imv.
I do think an internal promotion to GM could happen with the right scenario playing out.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
Not premium money? He's a top 10 highest paid player in the league.
And Daboll has proven a lot more than Schoen to me.
What has Schoen's been most impressive move to date?
I might have tagged jones and let barkley walk last year. I am not a huge Barley fan. Dances behind the line too much.
Thank God he let him walk this year.
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they aren't sold on DJ. The contract was too rich, but structured to allow an out after this year, and it's not like it was premium QB money.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
Not premium money? He's a top 10 highest paid player in the league.
And Daboll has proven a lot more than Schoen to me.
What has Schoen's been most impressive move to date?
He's tied for 11th now with Goff's new deal. And the other two, Stafford and Prescott, got their deals year(s) prior. Dak will go higher next offseason, thus he's dropping further. Lawrence will probably surpass him, too.
I like Daboll but he has warts too. Playing Josh Ezeudu at LT for starters.
So trying to trade for his replacement is “tripling down”?
The nonsense spin never ends
While Schoen may have tried to move on Maye, he also passed on the next three QB prospects that landed at #8, #10, and #12. With two of those three were selected by coaches who are highly respected in the NFL in working/developing QBs - Payton and O'Connell.
As I see it, Schoen decided that taking Nabers, who I think is a fantastic prospect, to play with Jones was more a better solution for the team than taking a new QB on a rookie deal and another WR in the second round (theoretically).
Thus, the triple down...
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In comment 16513687 fkap said:
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they aren't sold on DJ. The contract was too rich, but structured to allow an out after this year, and it's not like it was premium QB money.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
Not premium money? He's a top 10 highest paid player in the league.
And Daboll has proven a lot more than Schoen to me.
What has Schoen's been most impressive move to date?
He's tied for 11th now with Goff's new deal. And the other two, Stafford and Prescott, got their deals year(s) prior. Dak will go higher next offseason, thus he's dropping further. Lawrence will probably surpass him, too.
I like Daboll but he has warts too. Playing Josh Ezeudu at LT for starters.
He's being paid premium money for below average play. He's the opposite of having a good QB on a rookie contract.
Lets all hope that changes his 6th season.
I think that GM of the Giants is the most difficult GM job in the NFL. I think that having a 50/50 ownership divided between between 2 families that couldn't have less in common is a very difficult organizational structure to navigate and that's before you add in that one of the families has 3 members immersed in the on field personnel and game day decisions.
I worked for a CEO of a mid size company for a long time. He bought small companies and folded them into his corporate shared services, kept the best people and used his sales network to increase his revenue and P/L. I managed a team of young street smart MBA types (usually an oxymoron) and we were the advance team. We had to sort out the things that due diligence didn't and decide who to keep and who not to keep. We traveled a lot for years and we were a close group. All these years later a lot of that group have been my life long friends.
One day Mr. CEO asks me to do him a favor. His 5th ave ex wife's daughter has graduated and he wants me and my team to hire her and train her. This is the half sister of 2 of his 3 sons. Family. An owner. We still talk about how that changed everything about our office dynamics. She lasted less than 9 months before she went home to NY. In her case she didn't want to work. What we did was not a 9 to 5 job with a 2 hour lunch break. I was fortunate enough to have formed a group that could handle working with someone who was living with the CEO. But it wasn't ever far from the top of mind that I had to make sure none of my group did or said anything that would wind up being dinner conversation.
I think that's Joe Schoen's daily life. Sy was on the Giants Insider Podcast this week and he mentioned what a good job Schoen did of mudding the waters and keep the guessing game going about #6. He mentioned that there are less of them but still a lot of loose lips in the Giants building.
I think Schoen's process is sound. I understand why he has made the picks he has in his first 3 drafts and it makes sense to me. I have nothing draft wise to second guess without using hindsight. I think he does a very job representing the Giants in the media.
I wanted the Giants to draft JJ McCarthy. That's because I have no faith in Daniel Jones. I have no idea if JJ McCarthy would have been a good pick at #6. I have no idea if ownership was pressuring Schoen to draft a "weapon" for Jones not a QB to replace him. It's no secret how ownership feels about Daniel Jones.
IMO Schoen is now in QB hell. He gave Jones a bigger contract than he earned. Jones regressed, didn't last 1/2 of the first season of the deal and had two serious injuries he's still rehabbing and he's the #1 QB going into 2024.
With all that said I'm going to hope that several of the rookies drafted in the past 3 years become the core of a team that can compete to win the NFC East by 2025, If that doesn't happen I suspect there will be another new Giants GM introductory press conference in late January 2026.
lol - so true
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So trying to trade for his replacement is “tripling down”?
The nonsense spin never ends
While Schoen may have tried to move on Maye, he also passed on the next three QB prospects that landed at #8, #10, and #12. With two of those three were selected by coaches who are highly respected in the NFL in working/developing QBs - Payton and O'Connell.
As I see it, Schoen decided that taking Nabers, who I think is a fantastic prospect, to play with Jones was more a better solution for the team than taking a new QB on a rookie deal and another WR in the second round (theoretically).
Thus, the triple down...
Who cares if the 3 QB’s went after
He felt they weren’t worth if the pick
Time will tell
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
All the "he tried to trade for a QB" talk is irrelevant. Jones is the presumptive qb1, and if he fails then BD and JS go down with him. They punted on qb and they may not get the ball back.
And if Jones looks bad and Nix or JJM look good, the heat is going to be set to "high" real fast
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
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1 +1+1= 473!
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
I disagree that there were three QB’s more talented than Jones available at 6. The peripherals on Nix and Penix showed some red flags. McCarthy was the safer option, but is him without Nabers making our offense better versus getting Nabers now and, if we are as bad as some project, getting a QB next year? While there are no QB options that are ahead of where Williams and Maye were as prospects a year ago at this time, there are plenty of intriguing names who could boom (or bust) over the next year (Beck, Sanders, Dart, Smith, Ward, Ewers, Milroe, Mertz)
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In comment 16513794 Dave on the UWS said:
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1 +1+1= 473!
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
I disagree that there were three QB’s more talented than Jones available at 6. The peripherals on Nix and Penix showed some red flags. McCarthy was the safer option, but is him without Nabers making our offense better versus getting Nabers now and, if we are as bad as some project, getting a QB next year? While there are no QB options that are ahead of where Williams and Maye were as prospects a year ago at this time, there are plenty of intriguing names who could boom (or bust) over the next year (Beck, Sanders, Dart, Smith, Ward, Ewers, Milroe, Mertz)
If they're as bad as some project, at minimum they're looking for a new HC and any equity JS built will be gone.
So then it becomes what's better in 2025: Nabers + new QB + new HC
Or
JJM sophomore year + WR in rd2 sophomore year + year 4 of BD
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In comment 16513870 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16513794 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
1 +1+1= 473!
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
I disagree that there were three QB’s more talented than Jones available at 6. The peripherals on Nix and Penix showed some red flags. McCarthy was the safer option, but is him without Nabers making our offense better versus getting Nabers now and, if we are as bad as some project, getting a QB next year? While there are no QB options that are ahead of where Williams and Maye were as prospects a year ago at this time, there are plenty of intriguing names who could boom (or bust) over the next year (Beck, Sanders, Dart, Smith, Ward, Ewers, Milroe, Mertz)
If they're as bad as some project, at minimum they're looking for a new HC and any equity JS built will be gone.
So then it becomes what's better in 2025: Nabers + new QB + new HC
Or
JJM sophomore year + WR in rd2 sophomore year + year 4 of BD
What WR would we have had at 47 and what about our D now that you have not drafted Nubin?
All the "he tried to trade for a QB" talk is irrelevant. Jones is the presumptive qb1, and if he fails then BD and JS go down with him. They punted on qb and they may not get the ball back.
And if Jones looks bad and Nix or JJM look good, the heat is going to be set to "high" real fast
I feel a lot rides on the draft picks Joe Schoen made in 2021. These guys can be pivotal to the 2024 season. Thibodeaux can step up his game and become more consistent. He does, and becomes an alpha pass rusher, and the defense becomes one of the better units. Evan Neal, who made the SEC All American team as a true freshman RT, can turn around his career. We'll see under Bricillo. Then there are guys like Flott, Wan'Dale, and Bellinger who will all be key pieces.
If three of these players prove to work out and be long term pieces, he'll be fine.
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they aren't sold on DJ. The contract was too rich, but structured to allow an out after this year, and it's not like it was premium QB money.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
Not premium money? He's a top 10 highest paid player in the league.
And Daboll has proven a lot more than Schoen to me.
What has Schoen's been most impressive move to date?
Okereke, specifically but the LB/Edge group overall. McFadden is a late round find. Thibodeaux and Burns.
LB has been an understand-valued and under-talented black hole for 20 years around here.
That’s my view, too. Do I trust Schoen or Mara more? The question answers itself.
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In comment 16513687 fkap said:
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they aren't sold on DJ. The contract was too rich, but structured to allow an out after this year, and it's not like it was premium QB money.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
Not premium money? He's a top 10 highest paid player in the league.
And Daboll has proven a lot more than Schoen to me.
What has Schoen's been most impressive move to date?
Okereke, specifically but the LB/Edge group overall. McFadden is a late round find. Thibodeaux and Burns.
LB has been an understand-valued and under-talented black hole for 20 years around here.
That's fair but also not that impressive. Again I still have hope but he has a lot left to prove.
These are his hand-picked players and they've spent a ton of resources putting this roster together.
$352M in guaranteed $$$ the last 2 years.
And Mara's OK being years away? I doubt that.