| Dan and Nick dive into the debate that’s taken over Giants Twitter since the conclusion of the 2024 NFL Draft – should GM Joe Schoen be on the hot seat heading into 2024? They take a 30,000-foot view to start before diving into a look back on each of their five biggest takeaways after the 2021 season heading into the 2022 offseason. Then, they dissect each move Schoen has made in each of his two offseasons, the biggest deciding factors and more before circling back to discuss what would have to happen in 2024 for Schoen to be on the hot seat for them, and potentially for them to say – “that’s it, it’s time to move on” and what he can do to secure his seat for the future. |
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
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1 +1+1= 473!
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
I disagree that there were three QB’s more talented than Jones available at 6. The peripherals on Nix and Penix showed some red flags. McCarthy was the safer option, but is him without Nabers making our offense better versus getting Nabers now and, if we are as bad as some project, getting a QB next year? While there are no QB options that are ahead of where Williams and Maye were as prospects a year ago at this time, there are plenty of intriguing names who could boom (or bust) over the next year (Beck, Sanders, Dart, Smith, Ward, Ewers, Milroe, Mertz)
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In comment 16513794 Dave on the UWS said:
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1 +1+1= 473!
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
I disagree that there were three QB’s more talented than Jones available at 6. The peripherals on Nix and Penix showed some red flags. McCarthy was the safer option, but is him without Nabers making our offense better versus getting Nabers now and, if we are as bad as some project, getting a QB next year? While there are no QB options that are ahead of where Williams and Maye were as prospects a year ago at this time, there are plenty of intriguing names who could boom (or bust) over the next year (Beck, Sanders, Dart, Smith, Ward, Ewers, Milroe, Mertz)
If they're as bad as some project, at minimum they're looking for a new HC and any equity JS built will be gone.
So then it becomes what's better in 2025: Nabers + new QB + new HC
Or
JJM sophomore year + WR in rd2 sophomore year + year 4 of BD
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In comment 16513870 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16513794 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
1 +1+1= 473!
You win with elite talent. The opportunity to acquire Nabers’ elite level talent, trumped adding a QB who they obviously didn’t have nearly as high a grade on.
That is NOT doubling or tripling down on Jones.
I guess you don’t believe they tried to move for Maye? If they were sold on Jones, they NEVER go that route. That’s pretty simple math.
If Nabers was picked at 5, most probably they take McCarthy.
Get the elite talent, don’t reach for the QB, or are you as advocating that?
I believe Schoen had a Plan A and a Plan B.
Plan A was to call the Patriots about buying their draft slot. If he could get a bargain on the deal, he would have pulled the trigger. But it was a soft inquiry, and he wasn't going balls to the wall.
Plan B was if he couldn't execute Plan A, Schoen et all were comfortable sticking with Jones and building around him.
When you have the opportunity to upgrade the QB position with three QBs more talented than Jones and pass, you have pulled the triple down lever.
BTW, you consistently win with a very good QB or >. Non-QB elite talent doesn't matter if your QB can't optimize it.
I disagree that there were three QB’s more talented than Jones available at 6. The peripherals on Nix and Penix showed some red flags. McCarthy was the safer option, but is him without Nabers making our offense better versus getting Nabers now and, if we are as bad as some project, getting a QB next year? While there are no QB options that are ahead of where Williams and Maye were as prospects a year ago at this time, there are plenty of intriguing names who could boom (or bust) over the next year (Beck, Sanders, Dart, Smith, Ward, Ewers, Milroe, Mertz)
If they're as bad as some project, at minimum they're looking for a new HC and any equity JS built will be gone.
So then it becomes what's better in 2025: Nabers + new QB + new HC
Or
JJM sophomore year + WR in rd2 sophomore year + year 4 of BD
What WR would we have had at 47 and what about our D now that you have not drafted Nubin?
All the "he tried to trade for a QB" talk is irrelevant. Jones is the presumptive qb1, and if he fails then BD and JS go down with him. They punted on qb and they may not get the ball back.
And if Jones looks bad and Nix or JJM look good, the heat is going to be set to "high" real fast
I feel a lot rides on the draft picks Joe Schoen made in 2021. These guys can be pivotal to the 2024 season. Thibodeaux can step up his game and become more consistent. He does, and becomes an alpha pass rusher, and the defense becomes one of the better units. Evan Neal, who made the SEC All American team as a true freshman RT, can turn around his career. We'll see under Bricillo. Then there are guys like Flott, Wan'Dale, and Bellinger who will all be key pieces.
If three of these players prove to work out and be long term pieces, he'll be fine.
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they aren't sold on DJ. The contract was too rich, but structured to allow an out after this year, and it's not like it was premium QB money.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
Not premium money? He's a top 10 highest paid player in the league.
And Daboll has proven a lot more than Schoen to me.
What has Schoen's been most impressive move to date?
Okereke, specifically but the LB/Edge group overall. McFadden is a late round find. Thibodeaux and Burns.
LB has been an understand-valued and under-talented black hole for 20 years around here.
That’s my view, too. Do I trust Schoen or Mara more? The question answers itself.
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In comment 16513687 fkap said:
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they aren't sold on DJ. The contract was too rich, but structured to allow an out after this year, and it's not like it was premium QB money.
Schoen seems like he's not sold.
Asshat word was that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers, so if anyone is tripling down, it's him.
Last year was a shit show for Daboll. Very little there to inspire confidence in him. Another bad showing, and he's history. Schoen survives another year or two regardless.
Yeah, DG (and Coughlin, too, for that matter) retired. LOL
Not premium money? He's a top 10 highest paid player in the league.
And Daboll has proven a lot more than Schoen to me.
What has Schoen's been most impressive move to date?
Okereke, specifically but the LB/Edge group overall. McFadden is a late round find. Thibodeaux and Burns.
LB has been an understand-valued and under-talented black hole for 20 years around here.
That's fair but also not that impressive. Again I still have hope but he has a lot left to prove.
These are his hand-picked players and they've spent a ton of resources putting this roster together.
$352M in guaranteed $$$ the last 2 years.
And Mara's OK being years away? I doubt that.