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Mina Kimes panel discusses the Daniel Jones dilemma

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/14/2024 9:14 am
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RE: Mbavaro.  
Mbavaro : 5/14/2024 7:26 pm : link
In comment 16514954 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But that's speculating what the Giants plans/intentions were, while the other is those BBIers who hide under the 'I wanna move on' angle & then list excuse after excuse for him.

Listen, we're all never going to agree on this. People are in their corners, myself included. The Jones era has been so polarizing & contentious that I just hope it ends for the mental sanity of a lot of people, again including myself.


I think we both hope that 2024 is the last year for him with the team
Also  
SomeFan : 5/14/2024 7:26 pm : link
he may be able to complete short passes but I don't see him becoming a great short passer. He just doesn't have the instincts like Kurt Warner did with that type of passing game.
Mbavaro.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/14/2024 7:30 pm : link
No disagreement here, Haha.

Be well man. Gotta tend to kids before heading to man cave for Game 5.
RE: Daniel is capable of throwing short passes to open recievers  
56goat : 5/14/2024 7:31 pm : link
In comment 16514911 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
who are in his direct line of vision. Please have $40 million per year.


And are uncovered, all pash rushers fall down, prevent defense in the secondary...
RE: Question  
56goat : 5/14/2024 7:34 pm : link
In comment 16514888 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Why do certain college programs keep turning out 1st round QBs with spectacular statistics that fail in the NFL?

Great QBs are incredibly hard to find, even when the best ones want to come to your program. They leave soon if great. They need to build simple systems that the next guy up just goes in and plays.

Did you notice Tua got A LOT better once they added Waddle and Hill. Daboll is trying to do a similar thing here. I believe they think Jones will be an above average player in their system. IE a good system QB. Much easier to find than Aaron Rodger’s. They now have an elite playmaker in Nabers but everyone else is explosive. The system is designed to dink and dunk down the field and employ players with separation that create big play on their own.

I believe Daniel Jones VERY capable of throwing short passes at a high completion percentage. If the targets are explosive and excel at separation
I suspect Jones to do MUCH better than most. Making no guarantees but admit to excitement and hope. I see a plan. I don’t love Jones, I just think him capable of executing this offense. Their should be more space for his legs.



The league has already figured out how to stop the running. Any decent team will make DJ beat them by throwing down the field, and he hasn't shown the ability to consistently do that.
I would have taken McCarthy  
Sean : 5/14/2024 7:44 pm : link
But, there is a world where Schoen passing on a QB is simply him not wanting to attach his fate to a prospect he doesn't deem worthy at 6. McCarthy was polarizing, he wasn't a slam dunk lottery pick. Penix with a ton of injuries and being only 18 months younger than Jones. Nix seemed like a specific fit for Payton.

I get Schoen not willing to go QB and taking Nabers. He's not going to lose his job over the Jones contract, that was an organizational decision. Put it this way, does anyone think Schoen had to talk Mara into that contract? No fucking way.

But, taking McCarthy at 6 a year after giving Jones the contract? That's a different story. Maybe was worth the risk. McCarthy wasn't.

I can pull receipts about how people viewed McCarthy here from January - March. And I say that as someone who would've taken him.
*Maye was worth the risk to Schoen  
Sean : 5/14/2024 7:45 pm : link
.
RE: RE: MBavaro.  
bw in dc : 5/14/2024 8:03 pm : link
In comment 16514950 Mbavaro said:
Quote:

And those people are just as bad as the people who spin BS narratives like…”the team only made a “tepid” effort to get Maye because they still really want Jones….or they weren’t “really all in” on getting another QB because they didn’t any of the QB’s that went after Maye

The BS works both ways


I'm going to assume this is - mostly - directed at me.

I said Schoen didn't go balls to the wall to buy the Pats draft spot. His offer seemed more on the low-ball end (IMV). If he truly loved Maye, and thought he was a better long-term solution than Jones, he should have paid the premium.

I've identified that as Plan A: try to move up to select Jones's replacement, but only if a great deal falls into your lap.

If Plan A wasn't executed, I said there was a Plan B in place. And that plan was they were comfortable still moving forward with Jones, so let's not worry about selecting a QB and, instead, buy more offensive talent for Jones.

Not sure why that labeled BS. Seems like a pretty cogent deduction based on the outcome.
Maye had as many issues as the other guys  
Go Terps : 5/14/2024 8:03 pm : link
Of the six I thought he was most likely to be a bust. That they liked him so much did nothing to fill me with confidence in this front office. Just because he's big doesn't mean he's Josh Allen.

Anyway I think it's also worth remembering what Sy's early views are on next year's class: weaker at QB and stronger at WR. If that bears out to be true the Giants only look stupider than they already do. If they actually want to move on from Jones they'll have to force the pick in that weaker draft... remember what Eric said in the pre-draft podcast: "Schoen has to find a QB this offseason or next."

This offseason is now gone. If Jones doesn't play up to that $47M this season Mara, Schoen, and Daboll are going to look like morons and they should be destroyed. Hopefully the TV cameramen will have the presence of mind to focus on those three guys (and not Jones) as the boos rain down.
RE: I would have taken McCarthy  
bw in dc : 5/14/2024 8:05 pm : link
In comment 16514977 Sean said:
Quote:


I can pull receipts about how people viewed McCarthy here from January - March. And I say that as someone who would've taken him.


By all means, pull those receipts.

Make sure you grab the one where I say I'm not a McCarthy guy, but he's more talented than Jones and I would hold me nose and accept it.
RE: RE: I would have taken McCarthy  
Sean : 5/14/2024 8:31 pm : link
In comment 16514992 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16514977 Sean said:


Quote:




I can pull receipts about how people viewed McCarthy here from January - March. And I say that as someone who would've taken him.



By all means, pull those receipts.

Make sure you grab the one where I say I'm not a McCarthy guy, but he's more talented than Jones and I would hold me nose and accept it.

Again, I agree with you. But, that isn't a ringing endorsement for the player. Especially when you aren't taking advantage of the rookie contract window until 2025/26.
RE: Maye had as many issues as the other guys  
Sean : 5/14/2024 8:33 pm : link
In comment 16514989 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Of the six I thought he was most likely to be a bust. That they liked him so much did nothing to fill me with confidence in this front office. Just because he's big doesn't mean he's Josh Allen.

Anyway I think it's also worth remembering what Sy's early views are on next year's class: weaker at QB and stronger at WR. If that bears out to be true the Giants only look stupider than they already do. If they actually want to move on from Jones they'll have to force the pick in that weaker draft... remember what Eric said in the pre-draft podcast: "Schoen has to find a QB this offseason or next."

This offseason is now gone. If Jones doesn't play up to that $47M this season Mara, Schoen, and Daboll are going to look like morons and they should be destroyed. Hopefully the TV cameramen will have the presence of mind to focus on those three guys (and not Jones) as the boos rain down.

I agree with you. This was the year to do it. They'll likely force it next year similar to 2019 and Jones.

My guess is Schoen just didn't want to marry himself to McCarthy and the medicals were too risky with Penix at 6.
Even if you stipulate that the 1st round pick was defensible  
Jerry in_DC : 5/14/2024 8:39 pm : link
They still could have been taking swings on guys with upside for the past 3 years. They didn't. And now we're in a desperate situation.

Ultimately, avoiding any possible QB controversy and making sure Daniel is comfortable is a huge priority. If we had drafted a guy like Jordan Travis (or his equivalent in any of the 2 prior drafts), fans would be chanting for him when Daniel throws a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 10 for the 5th time in a game. That is not an acceptable situation for the Giants leadership. And again we prioritize Daniel's happiness over the franchise success and the fans.
RE: Even if you stipulate that the 1st round pick was defensible  
Sean : 5/14/2024 8:48 pm : link
In comment 16515049 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
They still could have been taking swings on guys with upside for the past 3 years. They didn't. And now we're in a desperate situation.

Ultimately, avoiding any possible QB controversy and making sure Daniel is comfortable is a huge priority. If we had drafted a guy like Jordan Travis (or his equivalent in any of the 2 prior drafts), fans would be chanting for him when Daniel throws a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 10 for the 5th time in a game. That is not an acceptable situation for the Giants leadership. And again we prioritize Daniel's happiness over the franchise success and the fans.

I don't really buy this. Half the fan base already wants Lock to start. There will still be a controversy.
I mean...  
Jerry in_DC : 5/14/2024 8:52 pm : link
...they forced Lock to walk back comments that he didn't even make about wanting to compete for a starting job...
I agree with Jerry  
Go Terps : 5/14/2024 9:00 pm : link
Schoen inherited a team that struggled to throw the football, and in three years of continued struggles he has done nothing to improve the position.

They have not tried. It is unconscionable. If a new owner bought the team tomorrow the first responsible move would be to fire everyone associated with the QB position. Their performance from an evaluation and strategic perspective has been catastrophic.
BBI therapists  
JT039 : 5/14/2024 9:06 pm : link
Are making a killing tonight.
RE: RE: RE: MBavaro.  
Mbavaro : 5/14/2024 9:31 pm : link
In comment 16514988 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16514950 Mbavaro said:


Quote:



And those people are just as bad as the people who spin BS narratives like…”the team only made a “tepid” effort to get Maye because they still really want Jones….or they weren’t “really all in” on getting another QB because they didn’t any of the QB’s that went after Maye

The BS works both ways



I'm going to assume this is - mostly - directed at me.

I said Schoen didn't go balls to the wall to buy the Pats draft spot. His offer seemed more on the low-ball end (IMV). If he truly loved Maye, and thought he was a better long-term solution than Jones, he should have paid the premium.

I've identified that as Plan A: try to move up to select Jones's replacement, but only if a great deal falls into your lap.

If Plan A wasn't executed, I said there was a Plan B in place. And that plan was they were comfortable still moving forward with Jones, so let's not worry about selecting a QB and, instead, buy more offensive talent for Jones.

Not sure why that labeled BS. Seems like a pretty cogent deduction based on the outcome.


You are ASSUMING it was not a strong offer and pushing a narrative that is an assumption
RE: I mean...  
bw in dc : 5/14/2024 9:38 pm : link
In comment 16515076 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
...they forced Lock to walk back comments that he didn't even make about wanting to compete for a starting job...


That situation was fascinating.

Thursday, March 14, 2024

Quote:
"They [Giants] basically sold him on the opportunity to compete to be the starter," Schneider said on Thursday on Seattle Sports Radio 710AM. "And he felt like it was the right opportunity. He looked at Baker Mayfield's opportunity last year and felt that this could be something similar."


Friday, March 15, 2024

Quote:
Lock was asked on Friday if he has been given the impression that he is walking into an open competition. He said it has been made very clear to him that Jones is the Giants’ starter.

“Daniel Jones is the starter of this team. That’s been conveyed to me,” Lock said.


I would love to know the backstory on that...

RE: RE: RE: Darwinian  
Darwinian : 5/14/2024 9:41 pm : link
In comment 16514701 JT039 said:
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In comment 16514690 Darwinian said:


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In comment 16514668 Eric from BBI said:


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Well that and the more obvious conclusion:

McCarthy, Penix, and Nix weren't even considered 1st round talents a couple of months before the draft. QB desperate teams may have forced those picks.

In reality, the entire NFL can't scout QBs worth shit. The odds are one or two of Williams, Daniels, and Maye will bust. And the odds are one of of Penix, McCarthy, and Nix will end up being pretty good.

But taking Nabers (more of a sure thing as a true "blue chip" talent) is defensible.



Yes. I love Nabers as a prospect. But I love him a lot more with a top QB. Feels like a luxury pick for the Giants. That's why I say, if one of those next 3 QBs pans out, then we have to take a long hard look at Schoen's tenure. KOC and Payton aren't exactly slouches.



Didn’t KOC miss the playoffs last year and lose to a Daniel Jones led team? Maybe a little success is needed before crowning him, no?


Not crowning him, though he did well under McVay. I'm not saying KOC is any better than Daboll, I'm just saying he and Payton know something about QBs.
RE: RE: Question  
Thegratefulhead : 5/14/2024 9:51 pm : link
In comment 16514903 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16514888 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:




I believe Daniel Jones VERY capable of throwing short passes at a high completion percentage.



He already does that. See Yards per Attempt. They just don't score points with it.

Perfect. Thank you for making the argument. They finally have multiple players capable of explosive plays. Nabers is going to take some of those to the house. When teams are forced to take Nabers away, all of the players find more space and they are only slightly less explosive. Tracy, Robinson, Hyatt and Johnson are all big play waiting to happen.

Not saying Jones is great. I am interested to see how his skills play in this offense with the player it needs. I don’t love the dude, it just doesn’t ruin my karma knowing he is our QB in 2024.

I still find the angst humorous.
Another thing to consider about Jones  
Sean : 5/14/2024 10:09 pm : link
Everyone who walks in the building and works for the Giants seems to love the guy.

-Shurmur
-Judge
-Garrett
-Daboll
-Gettleman
-Schoen

What's the deal with that? Will Daboll get fired and then the next coach will love him too? It is bizarre. I get it. Nice kid, works hard.

Maybe Schoen/Daboll think they are closer to the Vikings playoff win team than early 2023 results.
I mean it's got to go beyond nice kid and works hard  
Sean : 5/14/2024 10:10 pm : link
.
RE: I mean it's got to go beyond nice kid and works hard  
Scooter185 : 5/14/2024 10:29 pm : link
In comment 16515172 Sean said:
Quote:
.


Looks great in practice
RE: RE: I mean it's got to go beyond nice kid and works hard  
Darwinian : 5/14/2024 10:39 pm : link
In comment 16515205 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16515172 Sean said:


Quote:


.



Looks great in practice


I saw him do it against the Vikings.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would also add  
giantstock : 5/14/2024 11:16 pm : link
In comment 16514884 JT039 said:
Quote:
In comment 16514878 giantstock said:


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In comment 16514874 fkap said:


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In comment 16514768 KDavies said:


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that it seems that many of the people who criticized Gettleman reaching for Jones, seem to want Schoen to reach for a QB, any QB, regardless of the grade the front office has on them.



The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. All they hold is that DJ must go, so anyone must be better. There's no such thing as a reach if it means DJ is gone. If the grade isn't high enough for the front office, it's because the FO is head over heels in love with DJ. Or they can't evaluate. The Haters have one criterion: Not DJ = worth taking at 6.



This is all a made up invention in your own mind. Keep the imagination flowing.



It’s absolutely 100% true with posters here. They have flat out admitted it.


The below comment in quotes is an im imagination. And you compound it by lying. No poster admitted this in the context it was mentioned. You and others are using the same absurdity to exaggaerate the Mina Kimes video too.

Your insanity/break from reality knows no bounds.

"The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. "
RE: I mean it's got to go beyond nice kid and works hard  
Go Terps : 5/14/2024 11:24 pm : link
In comment 16515172 Sean said:
Quote:
.


On the Giants it may not. They aren't turning over every stone to win. You said it yourself: they aren't cutthroat. It is a family business run like a family.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I would also add  
JT039 : 5/14/2024 11:38 pm : link
In comment 16515267 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 16514884 JT039 said:


Quote:


In comment 16514878 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16514874 fkap said:


Quote:


In comment 16514768 KDavies said:


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that it seems that many of the people who criticized Gettleman reaching for Jones, seem to want Schoen to reach for a QB, any QB, regardless of the grade the front office has on them.



The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. All they hold is that DJ must go, so anyone must be better. There's no such thing as a reach if it means DJ is gone. If the grade isn't high enough for the front office, it's because the FO is head over heels in love with DJ. Or they can't evaluate. The Haters have one criterion: Not DJ = worth taking at 6.



This is all a made up invention in your own mind. Keep the imagination flowing.



It’s absolutely 100% true with posters here. They have flat out admitted it.



The below comment in quotes is an im imagination. And you compound it by lying. No poster admitted this in the context it was mentioned. You and others are using the same absurdity to exaggaerate the Mina Kimes video too.

Your insanity/break from reality knows no bounds.

"The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. "


Three have been many posters who have flat out said they rather anyone but Joens. They have flat out said we should cut him and move on to anyone else. This isn’t a lie.

It’s a straight up fact. The above poster is the president of the anyone but Jones brigade. Ask him yourself.
.  
Go Terps : 5/14/2024 11:58 pm : link
If you've got a shitty QB you should be trying to replace him at every opportunity. Otherwise you're wasting time.
RE: RE: RE: I would also add  
giantstock : 5/15/2024 12:38 am : link
In comment 16515276 JT039 said:
Quote:
In comment 16515267 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16514884 JT039 said:


Quote:


In comment 16514878 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16514874 fkap said:


Quote:


In comment 16514768 KDavies said:


Quote:


that it seems that many of the people who criticized Gettleman reaching for Jones, seem to want Schoen to reach for a QB, any QB, regardless of the grade the front office has on them.



The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. All they hold is that DJ must go, so anyone must be better. There's no such thing as a reach if it means DJ is gone. If the grade isn't high enough for the front office, it's because the FO is head over heels in love with DJ. Or they can't evaluate. The Haters have one criterion: Not DJ = worth taking at 6.



This is all a made up invention in your own mind. Keep the imagination flowing.



It’s absolutely 100% true with posters here. They have flat out admitted it.



The below comment in quotes is an im imagination. And you compound it by lying. No poster admitted this in the context it was mentioned. You and others are using the same absurdity to exaggaerate the Mina Kimes video too.

Your insanity/break from reality knows no bounds.

"The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. "



Three have been many posters who have flat out said they rather anyone but Joens. They have flat out said we should cut him and move on to anyone else. This isn’t a lie.

It’s a straight up fact. The above poster is the president of the anyone but Jones brigade. Ask him yourself.


This is not why I called you a liar. If you want to move the goalposts - then okay. But I was specific regarding the comment regarding "The Hate Club" below. I'm okay though with your amendment. That’s fine- we disagree. “Anyone but Jones” is different than what was said below at the bottom.

Though I get the feeling sometimes that you and the others who back up Jones would take literally a commenting "I'd rather die than gave to go through watching Jones again." The comment just made is hyperbole.

What if you just no longer believe in Jones between his quality of play and his injury history? You guys just want to classify it as hating just as what was some tried in looney way on this thread to slam the video by exaggerating the points that were made.

It really is funny the extreme many of you go through to make excuses for him. For example at the 23 minute mark of the video Mina states to paraphrase that “for Giants fans/ the FO, there are two paths that are GOOD. One is that Joens is bad early so you can move on and not risk his injury issue and the other is IF HE IS ACTUALLY BETTER THAN HE WAS IN 2022.” Instead you and the other Jones apologists have misrepresented the video. Not only are your posts laughable in how hard you try to stick up for Jones but in the manner you mispresent (or support those the misrepresent) something like this video just because you don’t; want to hear anyone shit on Jones.

------------------------

"The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. "

RE: .  
Darwinian : 5/15/2024 12:56 am : link
In comment 16515279 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If you've got a shitty QB you should be trying to replace him at every opportunity. Otherwise you're wasting time.


The most precious resource an NFL team has is time, a season. Each season is a precious opportunity to compete for a title. And the Giants squander them waiting for Daniel Jones to pop. A player with a low probability to emerge as an elite starter. It is as if they value the Jones experiment more than they value pursuing championships. They behave like it is more important to understand exactly what Jones is, even though he is most likely a journeyman, than to start searching for their Brock Purdy, their Stroud, their next high upside starter. The Giants are presently the most mismanaged team in the league. It's a little hard to take.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would also add  
JT039 : 5/15/2024 6:04 am : link
In comment 16515282 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 16515276 JT039 said:


Quote:


In comment 16515267 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16514884 JT039 said:


Quote:


In comment 16514878 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16514874 fkap said:


Quote:


In comment 16514768 KDavies said:


Quote:


that it seems that many of the people who criticized Gettleman reaching for Jones, seem to want Schoen to reach for a QB, any QB, regardless of the grade the front office has on them.



The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. All they hold is that DJ must go, so anyone must be better. There's no such thing as a reach if it means DJ is gone. If the grade isn't high enough for the front office, it's because the FO is head over heels in love with DJ. Or they can't evaluate. The Haters have one criterion: Not DJ = worth taking at 6.



This is all a made up invention in your own mind. Keep the imagination flowing.



It’s absolutely 100% true with posters here. They have flat out admitted it.



The below comment in quotes is an im imagination. And you compound it by lying. No poster admitted this in the context it was mentioned. You and others are using the same absurdity to exaggaerate the Mina Kimes video too.

Your insanity/break from reality knows no bounds.

"The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. "



Three have been many posters who have flat out said they rather anyone but Joens. They have flat out said we should cut him and move on to anyone else. This isn’t a lie.

It’s a straight up fact. The above poster is the president of the anyone but Jones brigade. Ask him yourself.



This is not why I called you a liar. If you want to move the goalposts - then okay. But I was specific regarding the comment regarding "The Hate Club" below. I'm okay though with your amendment. That’s fine- we disagree. “Anyone but Jones” is different than what was said below at the bottom.

Though I get the feeling sometimes that you and the others who back up Jones would take literally a commenting "I'd rather die than gave to go through watching Jones again." The comment just made is hyperbole.

What if you just no longer believe in Jones between his quality of play and his injury history? You guys just want to classify it as hating just as what was some tried in looney way on this thread to slam the video by exaggerating the points that were made.

It really is funny the extreme many of you go through to make excuses for him. For example at the 23 minute mark of the video Mina states to paraphrase that “for Giants fans/ the FO, there are two paths that are GOOD. One is that Joens is bad early so you can move on and not risk his injury issue and the other is IF HE IS ACTUALLY BETTER THAN HE WAS IN 2022.” Instead you and the other Jones apologists have misrepresented the video. Not only are your posts laughable in how hard you try to stick up for Jones but in the manner you mispresent (or support those the misrepresent) something like this video just because you don’t; want to hear anyone shit on Jones.

------------------------

"The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. "


When have I ever defended Jones? Looks like you’re the liar now. Because I think Jones sucks and I wanted a QB in the draft.

Try better buddy.
RE: RE: RE: I would also add  
fkap : 5/15/2024 8:28 am : link
In comment 16514892 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16514874 fkap said:


Quote:



The Hate Club is so blinded by hatred that they have no idea if the lust they're holding for the replacement prospects is genuine or not. All they hold is that DJ must go, so anyone must be better. There's no such thing as a reach if it means DJ is gone. If the grade isn't high enough for the front office, it's because the FO is head over heels in love with DJ. Or they can't evaluate. The Haters have one criterion: Not DJ = worth taking at 6.



Drawing a conclusion with five years of data isn't hate.


Of course it is. The conclusion is that DJ isn't nearly good enough. You hate him as the Giants QB. Scratch the word hate if you want to play the semantics game. How about intense desire to move on? You don't hate him, you just don't like him as QB, to the point that it's imperative we move on. The only other options are he's ok for now, or you like him, both which are views the Don't Like DJ as a QB to the Point of it being Imperative to Move On Club would never hold, or espouse.

But, you missed the entire point I was making.
RE: RE: ...  
TheBlueprintNC : 5/15/2024 9:19 am : link
In comment 16514941 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16514931 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The disconnect between how some here view Jones & how fan bases of the other 31 teams view DJ is striking.

I have non Giant fans in my life & they laugh @ Jones as a QB. Laugh, as in 'I can't believe he's still your QB & the money you're paying him is insane.'



That's a great point. Just mention his name to the fan of another team (and I'm surrounded by them) and they just laugh.


Didnt they do the same with Eli? Fans are stupid
RE: RE: Question  
TheBlueprintNC : 5/15/2024 9:20 am : link
In comment 16514966 56goat said:
Quote:
In comment 16514888 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Why do certain college programs keep turning out 1st round QBs with spectacular statistics that fail in the NFL?

Great QBs are incredibly hard to find, even when the best ones want to come to your program. They leave soon if great. They need to build simple systems that the next guy up just goes in and plays.

Did you notice Tua got A LOT better once they added Waddle and Hill. Daboll is trying to do a similar thing here. I believe they think Jones will be an above average player in their system. IE a good system QB. Much easier to find than Aaron Rodger’s. They now have an elite playmaker in Nabers but everyone else is explosive. The system is designed to dink and dunk down the field and employ players with separation that create big play on their own.

I believe Daniel Jones VERY capable of throwing short passes at a high completion percentage. If the targets are explosive and excel at separation
I suspect Jones to do MUCH better than most. Making no guarantees but admit to excitement and hope. I see a plan. I don’t love Jones, I just think him capable of executing this offense. Their should be more space for his legs.





The league has already figured out how to stop the running. Any decent team will make DJ beat them by throwing down the field, and he hasn't shown the ability to consistently do that.


They only rushed 3 and were able to sack the QB
RE: Another thing to consider about Jones  
Thegratefulhead : 5/15/2024 10:03 am : link
In comment 16515168 Sean said:
Quote:
Everyone who walks in the building and works for the Giants seems to love the guy.

-Shurmur
-Judge
-Garrett
-Daboll
-Gettleman
-Schoen

What's the deal with that? Will Daboll get fired and then the next coach will love him too? It is bizarre. I get it. Nice kid, works hard.

Maybe Schoen/Daboll think they are closer to the Vikings playoff win team than early 2023 results.
It is possible Sean. I am going to oversimplify my thinking.

DG was a poisoned pill

He went for hog mollies and should have been looking for men that could pass block.

THAT REALY FUCKED US UP FOR YEARS

We have been paying the price.

What happened under Judge was a joke, not sure he should be coaching at all.

Jones under Judge I throw away because the entire thing was a ragging dumpster fire of embarrassment.

I judge Jones under Daboll and I have reasonable explanation for what happened last year.

I don’t love the kid, I think he can be a good system QB for what Daboll like to run. I admit, I could be wrong about Jones. I doubt it though. I don’t think is great and don’t think he sucks. Plenty of evidence of that IMO as long as victories matter to you.
RE: RE: Another thing to consider about Jones  
giantstock : 5/15/2024 10:55 am : link
In comment 16515519 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 16515168 Sean said:


Quote:


Everyone who walks in the building and works for the Giants seems to love the guy.

-Shurmur
-Judge
-Garrett
-Daboll
-Gettleman
-Schoen

What's the deal with that? Will Daboll get fired and then the next coach will love him too? It is bizarre. I get it. Nice kid, works hard.

Maybe Schoen/Daboll think they are closer to the Vikings playoff win team than early 2023 results.

It is possible Sean. I am going to oversimplify my thinking.

DG was a poisoned pill

He went for hog mollies and should have been looking for men that could pass block.

THAT REALY FUCKED US UP FOR YEARS

We have been paying the price.

What happened under Judge was a joke, not sure he should be coaching at all.

Jones under Judge I throw away because the entire thing was a ragging dumpster fire of embarrassment.

I judge Jones under Daboll and I have reasonable explanation for what happened last year.

I don’t love the kid, I think he can be a good system QB for what Daboll like to run. I admit, I could be wrong about Jones. I doubt it though. I don’t think is great and don’t think he sucks. Plenty of evidence of that IMO as long as victories matter to you.


And he is also an enormous risk, is he not?

And his legs are probably worse now, correct?

And while the OL has improved, how good is the OL projected to be now and in the futture? They still need mroe help. Just becuase the OL is better - doens't mena it is good or will be good. They still need "more" more thna likely which they can get pofc but with a QB that is just "decent" how far are you expectign Giants to go? FIR AN AVG QB YOU NEED A TERRIFC OL NOOT JUST "OK." "OK" is not enough.

If you add up all this - it's "mediocre."
RE: RE: RE: Another thing to consider about Jones  
giantstock : 5/15/2024 10:56 am : link
In comment 16515621 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 16515519 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 16515168 Sean said:


Quote:


Everyone who walks in the building and works for the Giants seems to love the guy.

-Shurmur
-Judge
-Garrett
-Daboll
-Gettleman
-Schoen

What's the deal with that? Will Daboll get fired and then the next coach will love him too? It is bizarre. I get it. Nice kid, works hard.

Maybe Schoen/Daboll think they are closer to the Vikings playoff win team than early 2023 results.

It is possible Sean. I am going to oversimplify my thinking.

DG was a poisoned pill

He went for hog mollies and should have been looking for men that could pass block.

THAT REALY FUCKED US UP FOR YEARS

We have been paying the price.

What happened under Judge was a joke, not sure he should be coaching at all.

Jones under Judge I throw away because the entire thing was a ragging dumpster fire of embarrassment.

I judge Jones under Daboll and I have reasonable explanation for what happened last year.

I don’t love the kid, I think he can be a good system QB for what Daboll like to run. I admit, I could be wrong about Jones. I doubt it though. I don’t think is great and don’t think he sucks. Plenty of evidence of that IMO as long as victories matter to you.



And he is also an enormous risk, is he not?

And his legs are probably worse now, correct?

And while the OL has improved, how good is the OL projected to be now and in the futture? They still need mroe help. Just becuase the OL is better - doens't mena it is good or will be good. They still need "more" more thna likely which they can get pofc but with a QB that is just "decent" how far are you expectign Giants to go? FIR AN AVG QB YOU NEED A TERRIFC OL NOOT JUST "OK." "OK" is not enough.

If you add up all this - it's "mediocre."


I mean he is a huge injury risk.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/15/2024 11:09 am : link
In comment 16515458 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
In comment 16514941 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 16514931 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The disconnect between how some here view Jones & how fan bases of the other 31 teams view DJ is striking.

I have non Giant fans in my life & they laugh @ Jones as a QB. Laugh, as in 'I can't believe he's still your QB & the money you're paying him is insane.'



That's a great point. Just mention his name to the fan of another team (and I'm surrounded by them) and they just laugh.



Didnt they do the same with Eli? Fans are stupid


So if you think Mac Jones sucks, you're wrong because you're stupid?
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
TheBlueprintNC : 5/15/2024 11:59 am : link
In comment 16515663 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16515458 TheBlueprintNC said:


Quote:


In comment 16514941 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 16514931 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The disconnect between how some here view Jones & how fan bases of the other 31 teams view DJ is striking.

I have non Giant fans in my life & they laugh @ Jones as a QB. Laugh, as in 'I can't believe he's still your QB & the money you're paying him is insane.'



That's a great point. Just mention his name to the fan of another team (and I'm surrounded by them) and they just laugh.



Didnt they do the same with Eli? Fans are stupid



So if you think Mac Jones sucks, you're wrong because you're stupid?


No the real Pats fans are actually pretty smart
and typically  
TheBlueprintNC : 5/15/2024 12:03 pm : link
fans of other teams have no clue what is going on with another team.. i just follow what the experts have to say.. and about DJ if you get him comfortable back there again he will be good.. Danny has balls and thats what i think the coaching staff loves about him but he took a beating the last few years.. Sure TT and Tommy did better they were coming in fresh with a line that could at least hold up a couple of seconds but they also got demolished as the OL couldnt hold up against better DLs
I am very much looking forward to  
TheBlueprintNC : 5/15/2024 12:05 pm : link
seeing it come together bc i think Joe got it right and Daballs is the coach to lead the team.. we shall see. but im buying if your selling
RE: and typically  
giantstock : 5/15/2024 6:43 pm : link
In comment 16515753 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
i just follow what the experts have to say.. and about DJ if you get him comfortable back there again he will be good..


Most of the experts don't say this. Very few do.
RE: I mean it's got to go beyond nice kid and works hard  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/15/2024 6:56 pm : link
In comment 16515172 Sean said:
Quote:
.


I'd love for a deep expose into what people see in Jones. I really would. Yeah-as you said Sean-he seems like a nice kid & works hard, but the facts are the facts & he's just not a good QB. Not an attack on his character or whatever, but he's just not good @ the position he plays. & he's gotten more rope than anyone I can ever recall as a Giant. It is beyond weird. While I'm not saying Mara is pulling the strings-he might be, he might not be...I don't know-I wonder if Simms' & Eli's early struggles have created an organizational mindset of, 'Well those guys struggled early & became Super Bowl MVP QBs so maybe Jones can became one too'...I don't know. I really don't.

It's depressing AF that we're going into year fucking six with Jones, but here we are. & unless he balls out this season, I hope he's gone after this season. Hell, I hope the leash on him this fall is short & if he struggles, it's time to hit the bench kid. I'm not saying Lock is some great shake either, but from what I've seen/read...he'll @ least chuck the rock down the field. Jones hasn't done that since his rookie season.
RE: RE: I mean it's got to go beyond nice kid and works hard  
Mbavaro : 5/15/2024 7:06 pm : link
In comment 16516164 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 16515172 Sean said:


Quote:


.



I'd love for a deep expose into what people see in Jones. I really would. Yeah-as you said Sean-he seems like a nice kid & works hard, but the facts are the facts & he's just not a good QB. Not an attack on his character or whatever, but he's just not good @ the position he plays. & he's gotten more rope than anyone I can ever recall as a Giant. It is beyond weird. While I'm not saying Mara is pulling the strings-he might be, he might not be...I don't know-I wonder if Simms' & Eli's early struggles have created an organizational mindset of, 'Well those guys struggled early & became Super Bowl MVP QBs so maybe Jones can became one too'...I don't know. I really don't.

It's depressing AF that we're going into year fucking six with Jones, but here we are. & unless he balls out this season, I hope he's gone after this season. Hell, I hope the leash on him this fall is short & if he struggles, it's time to hit the bench kid. I'm not saying Lock is some great shake either, but from what I've seen/read...he'll @ least chuck the rock down the field. Jones hasn't done that since his rookie season.



I think the fact that we tried to draft Maye illustrates that this probably his last year here

I’m not sure why people keep overlooking that
Mbavaro.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/15/2024 7:15 pm : link
Fair rebuttal, though I've seen here & elsewhere-Sy for example-thought the whole 'Trying to trade up for Maye' was a charade to move up for someone like Harrison or have someone move up & push someone back. I know Schefer said it was for Alt, though I don't buy that.
RE: Mbavaro.  
Mbavaro : 5/15/2024 8:01 pm : link
In comment 16516180 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Fair rebuttal, though I've seen here & elsewhere-Sy for example-thought the whole 'Trying to trade up for Maye' was a charade to move up for someone like Harrison or have someone move up & push someone back. I know Schefer said it was for Alt, though I don't buy that.


Why I think the smokescreen narrative is BS…

Schoen was scouting all of the top QB’s in person last year and in the evaluation phase before the draft they spent a TON of time between workouts and in person visits with all of them except Nix

Their actions speak for themselves

smokescreen  
fkap : 5/16/2024 2:05 pm : link
while the Giants did publicly back Jones, to an extent, every action they took, and the public perception, was that they are ready to move on. You simply don't allow your starting QB to be dragged through the mud like that, and you don't excite the fan base by making them think they're getting a new QB, just as a ruse.

Even if DJ was in on the scam, it has to take a toll. Allowing everyone to think they're done with DJ, while secretly having no intention of moving on, is a dumb idea, and the payoff is minimal.

The smokescreen advocates are unwilling to believe anything other than Giants love DJ, so they spew this garbage to back their narrative.
RE: smokescreen  
Darwinian : 5/16/2024 2:30 pm : link
In comment 16516989 fkap said:
Quote:
Allowing everyone to think they're done with DJ, while secretly having no intention of moving on, is a dumb idea, and the payoff is minimal.



Precisely. It's not a strategy any normal person would pursue.

"No. They just wanted you to think they were done with Jones. Genius!"
Fact is the vast majority of mock drafts had Giants taking a WR  
shyster : 5/16/2024 2:53 pm : link
all the way along and right up to the end.

Sixteen of sixteen mock drafts collected at the Huddle Report on the eve of the draft had Giants taking a WR. See link.

The notion that "everyone" thought Giants were moving on from Jones is a strawman.

When the Giants signed Drew Lock in March, my posted response was that the Giants were not going to have Jones, Lock and a first round QB on their roster. And, what do you know, they don't.

link - ( New Window )
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