does not have the talent to be a top tier talent. The worst place to be is paying for mediocrity. Mina is 100 percent correct. So many of you just don't want admit the truth. And then there is the fact that you can't accept the fact that this WOMAN was right about Jones all along. Right from day 1 when she made fun of Gettleman drafting him.
RE: Jones doesn't have to play that well to stick around
Schmeelk may be a mouth piece (i don't think he is) but he is a person who is actually still somewhat optimistic about Jones' ability.
I think he'd be very down on him if he thought Giants wouldn't be aoo harshlyble to have a playoff type season with him at QB and some changes to OL and weaponry.
Who signs Schmelk's paychecks?
I like Schmelk. However anyone who works for the organization will never criticize too harshly.
In addition, my initial point wasn't just about these three, but all of the talking heads. You'd be hard-pressed (maybe Kiper) to find anyone who believes in Daniel Jones. Whether you agree with that or not.
Wait are we really going by talking heads analysis instead of Daballs and Joe and Kafka? They could have easily signed another QB in FA they didnt, they could have easily drafted another QB if they liked one better, they didnt. Why dont we trust the actual experts instead of the talking heads? BTW whose the coach in Denver that said Dan could be a playoff winning QB -Sean Payton but Mina says lol
RE: Jones doesn't have to play that well to stick around
I feel like we are downplaying the Nabers pick a bit. He is going to change the entire offense.
The best wide receivers in the history of the position are barely worth 2 points a game. Malik Nabers, who is a great prospect, will not make up for a serious deficit at QB. Your argument sounds exactly like what people said about adding Barkley to a moribund attack in 2018, that he would revive the attack and make an aging Eli a better QB all by himself.
I don't know who these guys are but they have to be BBIers: "The Giants have a problem if Daniel Jones plays too well" Because then they have to extend a guy they don't want to.
That might be the single stupidest line in sports history. And that says a lot.
(Anti) Jones Derangement Syndrome taken to new heights.
It's pretty freaking funny watching people get tied up in knots. Some people are at the point they don't want Daniel Jones to play well. Too funny.......
Yup. A bunch of opinions that are no more valuable than anyone on BBI. Nothing we haven't heard repeatedly from the naysayers on BBI (and yet those of us who agree with Schoen and Daboll are called fanatical!).
Click-baiters got to pay their bills and there's no shortage of Giants fans with an insatiable appetite for anything negative. It's easy money.
Yup. A bunch of opinions that are no more valuable than anyone on BBI. Nothing we haven't heard repeatedly from the naysayers on BBI (and yet those of us who agree with Schoen and Daboll are called fanatical!).
Click-baiters got to pay their bills and there's no shortage of Giants fans with an insatiable appetite for anything negative. It's easy money.
The loud Giant fans are always wrong -Tried running Eli and Tom Coughlin out of town while everyone was trust in reeech. and many more examples thru the decades. The biggest flaw of the team has been the OL end of story.. It wasted Eli's prime and has crushed DJ potential. BUT Joe gets it and he and Daballs have addressed it.. They turned over the roster more talent and veteran presence and the coaching room.
I feel like we are downplaying the Nabers pick a bit. He is going to change the entire offense.
We are placing a ton of hopes and expectations on a guy who has yet to play a down in the NFL. Kind of seems unfair. If he gets hurt or busts, this could get ugly.
I feel like we are downplaying the Nabers pick a bit. He is going to change the entire offense.
The best wide receivers in the history of the position are barely worth 2 points a game. Malik Nabers, who is a great prospect, will not make up for a serious deficit at QB. Your argument sounds exactly like what people said about adding Barkley to a moribund attack in 2018, that he would revive the attack and make an aging Eli a better QB all by himself.
3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
Get over it already, Daniel Jones is the Giants starting QB unless he loses the job in camp or shortly thereafter. And by the way, it would be better for the team if he returned to his best form. I know it's a slow news cycle right now for football, but please, how many DJ threads can there be!?! He's not going anywhere!
And therefore, Schoen needs to be held to account if one or more of the QBs he passed on emerges as a star. The clock on his tenure needs to start ticking.
you cannot conclude that the Giants wanted to move on from Jones despite a mountain of evidence supporting this claim.
But you can conclude this as fact. lol. The internet is like a biosphere where you can view cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias live and in the wild.
Quote:
...And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12....
3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
Oh…so now the spin is a soft offer to continue the narrative that they never wanted to get rid of Jones
You have literally zero idea how any of these prospects will turn out…but keep spinning the BS to fit your narrative
Get over it already, Daniel Jones is the Giants starting QB unless he loses the job in camp or shortly thereafter. And by the way, it would be better for the team if he returned to his best form. I know it's a slow news cycle right now for football, but please, how many DJ threads can there be!?! He's not going anywhere!
Eric should charge posters for counseling services on Jones. It’s like a therapy session here.
Yup. A bunch of opinions that are no more valuable than anyone on BBI. Nothing we haven't heard repeatedly from the naysayers on BBI (and yet those of us who agree with Schoen and Daboll are called fanatical!).
Click-baiters got to pay their bills and there's no shortage of Giants fans with an insatiable appetite for anything negative. It's easy money.
Eh. I think it's deeply flawed to assume no one has more valuable insight than BBI. Dominique Foxworth played years in the league and was the president of the players union. He might know a bit about quarterbacks as a very good player, and he might know a thing about contracts and the business of.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
Huh? I think you have it twisted. Daniel Jones is the poster child of opportunity cost. Passing on opportunities to keep Jones installed as starter, simply because he cost a high first, has sapped the Giants of a lot of possible upside. Passing on Penix, JJM, and Nix, to retain Jones, is a disaster of opportunity cost. Those three prospects have much higher ceilings than Jones. That's opportunity cost.
3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
QB prospects can project to be better than Jones, and yet not be good enough to be worth passing on a projected elite WR.
The second part is what can be concluded to be the Giants thinking. The first part is unknown, but the undeniable fact is that ultimately they decided Nabers was too good to pass up.
The only dilemma the Giants face is where they find the QB to replace Jones. All signs point to them wanting to replace him.
3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Not to mention it is not just is Jones > Any QB available, but whether Jones + Nabers + Filling other positions until you select a QB > QB at 6 + Lesser talent at other positions or QB at 6 + WR in Round 1 next year.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
Huh? I think you have it twisted. Daniel Jones is the poster child of opportunity cost. Passing on opportunities to keep Jones installed as starter, simply because he cost a high first, has sapped the Giants of a lot of possible upside. Passing on Penix, JJM, and Nix, to retain Jones, is a disaster of opportunity cost. Those three prospects have much higher ceilings than Jones. That's opportunity cost.
I was referring to the cost of his contract; it is guaranteed for next season, hence no additional opportunity cost. As opposed to spending a high 1st on a QB they may not have been sold on.
Having higher ceilings than Jones is a flawed way to evaluate the opportunity cost. You don't draft them because they are or will be better than Jones; you draft them because you think they can lead you to a SB. Anything else is misspent.
I wasn't saying Nabers is going to step in and be Jerry Rice. My point about "changing the entire offense" stands - who are the "best" receivers that Daniel Jones had had to play with in his career? I mean that sincerely - not trying to drum up some Jones argument.
The answer is....Darius Slayton? Wan'Dale looks the part and Hyatt seems like he can be really solid. But in 2019, Jones had Tate, Slayton, and Shepard. Slayton was his go to guy. 2020, pretty much the same. 2021...the same. 2022 they added Robinson and Hodgins which helped but come on now.
Nabers is the 6th pick of the draft. He is expected to have a Beckham-like effect on the offense. It should open things up for Jones if he has time. Nabers can play every WR position on the field.
That means that Robinson and Hyatt can be wide open a ton.
fact that the Giants tried to move up for Maye also proves that whether for performance or injury reasons, they are done with Jones. As Sean said, taking Nabers was not a statement that they are committed to Jones. It was simply about taking the player many people thought was the best WR, a position of dire need for the Giants.
Woah
Fact?
Because it was reported?
We offered what to a team that needed a QB more than us ?
We know the exact offer how?
The fact is that we did not draft a QB in the draft and we replaced our back up with a much less accomplished QB says what exactly?
Tyrod was turds in his post Bills career. Floundered with the Browns, Texans, Chargers. Consistently low QBR. Lock is a better option going forward because of his age and health history.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
If they like him to start in 2024 why wouldn't they like him to start in 2025?
Jones, even by his own low standards, was terrible in 2023 AND he tore his ACL. If he stays healthy and puts up a typical Jones year (20 total TDs, 6.7 YPA, offense averages around 20 PPG), why wouldn't he be back in 2025?
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Let me give you an example of a team acting like they really want to move on from their QB. Not this soft, nuanced non-sense form Schoen.
Denver.
Wilson is a SB champion, multiple all pros & pro bowls, and a likely HoFamer. And a massive hit to the Broncos cap finances for the next year or two.
But Peyton, a great HC, offensive planner and QB developer, said he's had enough of Wilson. And he's ready to take his medicine now on the cap and find a new QB. So, he drafted Nix at #12 and has absolutely zero regrets about telling Wilson to not have the door hit him in the ass on the way out of Denver.
That's how real teams who want to move on from a real franchise QB act.
If Jones can't read defenses like is constantly said why wouldn't
Quote:And you can't just throw quick passes all the time... Defenses will catch on pretty fast so a downfield game is a must.. Daniel Jones will have to launch it this year
if you hate Jones this will 100% appeal to you. if you think the team as whole can be better with changes we have made this will be ok. if you think Jones will be better with an improved Oline and improved weapons then you will hate this commentary.
Overall I don't know who this chic is but she seems fixated on using jones as her main Giants talking points- which has fan appeal but she rarely provides much beyond a basic fan level observation. keep in mind while some major QB's played in the playoffs last year we also saw:
Baker Mayfield
Mason Rudolph
Joe Flacco
Will Levis
Jordan Love (who until last year had not really done much and even lost to the Giants last season)
We act like the league is all made up of SB MVP QB's except the Giants.
You can't get around the point she raised. Jones is dead last in the NFL among 38 quarterbacks in throwing the ball down the field in the last two seasons. Taylor and DeVito come in, and that changes.
RE: If Jones can't read defenses like is constantly said why wouldn't
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Let me give you an example of a team acting like they really want to move on from their QB. Not this soft, nuanced non-sense form Schoen.
Denver.
Wilson is a SB champion, multiple all pros & pro bowls, and a likely HoFamer. And a massive hit to the Broncos cap finances for the next year or two.
But Peyton, a great HC, offensive planner and QB developer, said he's had enough of Wilson. And he's ready to take his medicine now on the cap and find a new QB. So, he drafted Nix at #12 and has absolutely zero regrets about telling Wilson to not have the door hit him in the ass on the way out of Denver.
That's how real teams who want to move on from a real franchise QB act.
Or despite scouting the majority of the QB class in person last year and spending a ton of time with most of the top prospects in the evaluation phase…they determined that only one player fit the criteria of what they were looking for
Any way to spin a situation negatively….you will find
Tell us more about the “tepid” offer we made for Maye….prime example
Terps - are you refusing to mention or believe that they just tried to trade up and draft a quarterback? Or do you somehow not think that happened?
They failed to do so, and their approach to the QBs in this draft bothered me for two reasons:
1. If you believe they tried to trade up for Maye, they laser focused on one guy and didn't have alternative options in a draft that provided them. If they need to fall in full bloom love with a QB to even consider drafting him they are going to be counting on hitting a home run in their next swing (whenever that happens), and then they're going to give that guy the too-long leash that Jones has gotten. It's generally a bad approach that is going to waste a lot of years.
2. If they assessed that Maye was worth trading up for but the other three weren't even worth drafting at 6 I think we have a QB evaluation problem. I'm not sure Maye was even a better prospect let alone that much better. But these guys paid Daniel Jones so it shouldn't surprise us that there's a QB evaluation problem.
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Let me give you an example of a team acting like they really want to move on from their QB. Not this soft, nuanced non-sense form Schoen.
Denver.
Wilson is a SB champion, multiple all pros & pro bowls, and a likely HoFamer. And a massive hit to the Broncos cap finances for the next year or two.
But Peyton, a great HC, offensive planner and QB developer, said he's had enough of Wilson. And he's ready to take his medicine now on the cap and find a new QB. So, he drafted Nix at #12 and has absolutely zero regrets about telling Wilson to not have the door hit him in the ass on the way out of Denver.
That's how real teams who want to move on from a real franchise QB act.
That's a good point, but Payton has pelts on the wall (or a pelt), Schoen doesn't. I think it's clear that Schoen didn't value this QB class as much as others did. I was not a big fan of Nix's, but I thought his best landing spot was in Denver. It will be interesting to watch.
RE: RE: If Jones can't read defenses like is constantly said why wouldn't
Daboll, Kafka and for that matter Shoen not know this?
They know this.
In fact, how they game-planned him in 2022 confirms this. He wasn't reading the field very much. If his main read wasn't wide open he either tucked and ran or dumped off to a safety valve.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
You wrote that Schoen could have thought Jones was better than many of these QB prospects. And revamping the OL and bringing in more firepower was a plan they trusted moving forward with Jones. Isn't that what I basically said, too?
BTW, a QB on a rookie contract isn't a cap albatross. So, we could have easily absorbed that investment.
That's not happening. I'd applaud it, but that's not how John Mara runs the Giants. Payton runs the Broncos and he's able to do what he wants. The Giants aren't that cutthroat.
In addition, my initial point wasn't just about these three, but all of the talking heads. You'd be hard-pressed (maybe Kiper) to find anyone who believes in Daniel Jones. Whether you agree with that or not.
Wait are we really going by talking heads analysis instead of Daballs and Joe and Kafka? They could have easily signed another QB in FA they didnt, they could have easily drafted another QB if they liked one better, they didnt. Why dont we trust the actual experts instead of the talking heads? BTW whose the coach in Denver that said Dan could be a playoff winning QB -Sean Payton but Mina says lol
Why question them?
Because they made a horrific decision to Franchise Barkley and sign Jones to a $160 million deal.
If you haven't noticed, the goodwill they built up in 2022 evaporated in 2023.
Or despite scouting the majority of the QB class in person last year and spending a ton of time with most of the top prospects in the evaluation phase…they determined that only one player fit the criteria of what they were looking for
Any way to spin a situation negatively….you will find
Tell us more about the “tepid” offer we made for Maye….prime example
What are we arguing about here? Aren't we basically agreeing on the outcome?
I said Schoen may have had interest in Maye if he could get his price. Let's call that Plan A.
When he couldn't get his price to buy the Pats' spot, he seemed to have no problem switching to Plan B, which was staying hitched to Jones and bringing in more players to help Jones.
Or despite scouting the majority of the QB class in person last year and spending a ton of time with most of the top prospects in the evaluation phase…they determined that only one player fit the criteria of what they were looking for
Any way to spin a situation negatively….you will find
Tell us more about the “tepid” offer we made for Maye….prime example
What are we arguing about here? Aren't we basically agreeing on the outcome?
I said Schoen may have had interest in Maye if he could get his price. Let's call that Plan A.
When he couldn't get his price to buy the Pats' spot, he seemed to have no problem switching to Plan B, which was staying hitched to Jones and bringing in more players to help Jones.
You mean like spinning and saying that we made a tepid offer to NE
The Giants want to be right about Jones.
Again, a completely baseless comment.
Schoen literally tried to trade for Drake Maye, and offered the Giants #1 pick next year along with #47 this year.
So, your statement about Jones not needing to play well to stick around is a complete alternate reality.
They tried to replace him 3 weeks ago.
I think he'd be very down on him if he thought Giants wouldn't be aoo harshlyble to have a playoff type season with him at QB and some changes to OL and weaponry.
Who signs Schmelk's paychecks?
I like Schmelk. However anyone who works for the organization will never criticize too harshly.
Wait are we really going by talking heads analysis instead of Daballs and Joe and Kafka? They could have easily signed another QB in FA they didnt, they could have easily drafted another QB if they liked one better, they didnt. Why dont we trust the actual experts instead of the talking heads? BTW whose the coach in Denver that said Dan could be a playoff winning QB -Sean Payton but Mina says lol
The Giants want to be right about Jones.
They wanted to be so right about Jones that they tried to draft Maye
Amazing some of the utterly stupid things you post here
The best wide receivers in the history of the position are barely worth 2 points a game. Malik Nabers, who is a great prospect, will not make up for a serious deficit at QB. Your argument sounds exactly like what people said about adding Barkley to a moribund attack in 2018, that he would revive the attack and make an aging Eli a better QB all by himself.
That might be the single stupidest line in sports history. And that says a lot.
(Anti) Jones Derangement Syndrome taken to new heights.
It's pretty freaking funny watching people get tied up in knots. Some people are at the point they don't want Daniel Jones to play well. Too funny.......
Click-baiters got to pay their bills and there's no shortage of Giants fans with an insatiable appetite for anything negative. It's easy money.
Quote:
I feel like we are downplaying the Nabers pick a bit. He is going to change the entire offense.
Now, if we had Malik Willis...
Quote:
Empty chatter is what this is.
Yup. A bunch of opinions that are no more valuable than anyone on BBI. Nothing we haven't heard repeatedly from the naysayers on BBI (and yet those of us who agree with Schoen and Daboll are called fanatical!).
Click-baiters got to pay their bills and there's no shortage of Giants fans with an insatiable appetite for anything negative. It's easy money.
The loud Giant fans are always wrong -Tried running Eli and Tom Coughlin out of town while everyone was trust in reeech. and many more examples thru the decades. The biggest flaw of the team has been the OL end of story.. It wasted Eli's prime and has crushed DJ potential. BUT Joe gets it and he and Daballs have addressed it.. They turned over the roster more talent and veteran presence and the coaching room.
We are placing a ton of hopes and expectations on a guy who has yet to play a down in the NFL. Kind of seems unfair. If he gets hurt or busts, this could get ugly.
Quote:
I feel like we are downplaying the Nabers pick a bit. He is going to change the entire offense.
The best wide receivers in the history of the position are barely worth 2 points a game. Malik Nabers, who is a great prospect, will not make up for a serious deficit at QB. Your argument sounds exactly like what people said about adding Barkley to a moribund attack in 2018, that he would revive the attack and make an aging Eli a better QB all by himself.
Eliwasrobbed!!!!
Quote:
In comment 16514353 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I feel like we are downplaying the Nabers pick a bit. He is going to change the entire offense.
Now, if we had Malik Willis...
Or traded for Russell Wilson. Would have been highway robbery for us.
3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
But you can conclude this as fact. lol. The internet is like a biosphere where you can view cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias live and in the wild.
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3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
Oh…so now the spin is a soft offer to continue the narrative that they never wanted to get rid of Jones
You have literally zero idea how any of these prospects will turn out…but keep spinning the BS to fit your narrative
Eric should charge posters for counseling services on Jones. It’s like a therapy session here.
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Empty chatter is what this is.
Yup. A bunch of opinions that are no more valuable than anyone on BBI. Nothing we haven't heard repeatedly from the naysayers on BBI (and yet those of us who agree with Schoen and Daboll are called fanatical!).
Click-baiters got to pay their bills and there's no shortage of Giants fans with an insatiable appetite for anything negative. It's easy money.
Eh. I think it's deeply flawed to assume no one has more valuable insight than BBI. Dominique Foxworth played years in the league and was the president of the players union. He might know a bit about quarterbacks as a very good player, and he might know a thing about contracts and the business of.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
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It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
Huh? I think you have it twisted. Daniel Jones is the poster child of opportunity cost. Passing on opportunities to keep Jones installed as starter, simply because he cost a high first, has sapped the Giants of a lot of possible upside. Passing on Penix, JJM, and Nix, to retain Jones, is a disaster of opportunity cost. Those three prospects have much higher ceilings than Jones. That's opportunity cost.
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3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Nailed it- good post.
The second part is what can be concluded to be the Giants thinking. The first part is unknown, but the undeniable fact is that ultimately they decided Nabers was too good to pass up.
The only dilemma the Giants face is where they find the QB to replace Jones. All signs point to them wanting to replace him.
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In comment 16514289 Sean said:
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3. The Giants want to move on from Jones. I think this idea gets muddled here with thinking drafting Nabers is a statement that the organization is all in on Jones.
I don't think you can say that unequivocally. The Giants apparently considered moving on from Jones by having discussions to buy the Patriots draft slot. But it sounded like a soft offer where Schoen was trying to buy the spot with a coupon. And Wolf wasn't interested.
When that didn't materialize, it looked like the Giants were jubilant to draft Nabers and then let Jones know via text Jones they were bringing in more reinforcements for him.
And in the ensuing hour after that, more talented QB prospects than Jones were drafted - Penix #8, McCarthy #10, and Nix #12.
It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Not to mention it is not just is Jones > Any QB available, but whether Jones + Nabers + Filling other positions until you select a QB > QB at 6 + Lesser talent at other positions or QB at 6 + WR in Round 1 next year.
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In comment 16514410 bw in dc said:
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It seems very easy to conclude that Schoen made the calculation that Jones was > than Penix, McCarthy and Nix. And it was just a safer bet to give Jones a WR. Otherwise, he would have drafted one of them because he was at least kicking the tires to add a QB by trying to buy the Patriots pick.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
Huh? I think you have it twisted. Daniel Jones is the poster child of opportunity cost. Passing on opportunities to keep Jones installed as starter, simply because he cost a high first, has sapped the Giants of a lot of possible upside. Passing on Penix, JJM, and Nix, to retain Jones, is a disaster of opportunity cost. Those three prospects have much higher ceilings than Jones. That's opportunity cost.
I was referring to the cost of his contract; it is guaranteed for next season, hence no additional opportunity cost. As opposed to spending a high 1st on a QB they may not have been sold on.
Having higher ceilings than Jones is a flawed way to evaluate the opportunity cost. You don't draft them because they are or will be better than Jones; you draft them because you think they can lead you to a SB. Anything else is misspent.
The answer is....Darius Slayton? Wan'Dale looks the part and Hyatt seems like he can be really solid. But in 2019, Jones had Tate, Slayton, and Shepard. Slayton was his go to guy. 2020, pretty much the same. 2021...the same. 2022 they added Robinson and Hodgins which helped but come on now.
Nabers is the 6th pick of the draft. He is expected to have a Beckham-like effect on the offense. It should open things up for Jones if he has time. Nabers can play every WR position on the field.
That means that Robinson and Hyatt can be wide open a ton.
The problem then lies - if the Giants win anywhere from 7-10 games, ultimately they won't be "high enough" to draft a top tier QB.
They may go the FA route if Jones looks good to OK.
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fact that the Giants tried to move up for Maye also proves that whether for performance or injury reasons, they are done with Jones. As Sean said, taking Nabers was not a statement that they are committed to Jones. It was simply about taking the player many people thought was the best WR, a position of dire need for the Giants.
Woah
Fact?
Because it was reported?
We offered what to a team that needed a QB more than us ?
We know the exact offer how?
The fact is that we did not draft a QB in the draft and we replaced our back up with a much less accomplished QB says what exactly?
Tyrod was turds in his post Bills career. Floundered with the Browns, Texans, Chargers. Consistently low QBR. Lock is a better option going forward because of his age and health history.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
If they like him to start in 2024 why wouldn't they like him to start in 2025?
Jones, even by his own low standards, was terrible in 2023 AND he tore his ACL. If he stays healthy and puts up a typical Jones year (20 total TDs, 6.7 YPA, offense averages around 20 PPG), why wouldn't he be back in 2025?
bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Let me give you an example of a team acting like they really want to move on from their QB. Not this soft, nuanced non-sense form Schoen.
Denver.
Wilson is a SB champion, multiple all pros & pro bowls, and a likely HoFamer. And a massive hit to the Broncos cap finances for the next year or two.
But Peyton, a great HC, offensive planner and QB developer, said he's had enough of Wilson. And he's ready to take his medicine now on the cap and find a new QB. So, he drafted Nix at #12 and has absolutely zero regrets about telling Wilson to not have the door hit him in the ass on the way out of Denver.
That's how real teams who want to move on from a real franchise QB act.
Quote:And you can't just throw quick passes all the time... Defenses will catch on pretty fast so a downfield game is a must.. Daniel Jones will have to launch it this year
if you hate Jones this will 100% appeal to you. if you think the team as whole can be better with changes we have made this will be ok. if you think Jones will be better with an improved Oline and improved weapons then you will hate this commentary.
Overall I don't know who this chic is but she seems fixated on using jones as her main Giants talking points- which has fan appeal but she rarely provides much beyond a basic fan level observation. keep in mind while some major QB's played in the playoffs last year we also saw:
Baker Mayfield
Mason Rudolph
Joe Flacco
Will Levis
Jordan Love (who until last year had not really done much and even lost to the Giants last season)
We act like the league is all made up of SB MVP QB's except the Giants.
You can't get around the point she raised. Jones is dead last in the NFL among 38 quarterbacks in throwing the ball down the field in the last two seasons. Taylor and DeVito come in, and that changes.
They know this.
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Was a good way to describe Jones
This was a good listen, pretty much agreed with everything said
They raised a number of issues that I've written about, including the complicated question of "is Daniel broken?" at this point.
Physically and mentally.
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bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Let me give you an example of a team acting like they really want to move on from their QB. Not this soft, nuanced non-sense form Schoen.
Denver.
Wilson is a SB champion, multiple all pros & pro bowls, and a likely HoFamer. And a massive hit to the Broncos cap finances for the next year or two.
But Peyton, a great HC, offensive planner and QB developer, said he's had enough of Wilson. And he's ready to take his medicine now on the cap and find a new QB. So, he drafted Nix at #12 and has absolutely zero regrets about telling Wilson to not have the door hit him in the ass on the way out of Denver.
That's how real teams who want to move on from a real franchise QB act.
Or despite scouting the majority of the QB class in person last year and spending a ton of time with most of the top prospects in the evaluation phase…they determined that only one player fit the criteria of what they were looking for
Any way to spin a situation negatively….you will find
Tell us more about the “tepid” offer we made for Maye….prime example
It doesn’t fit the narrative
Therefore he have nothing else to obsess on
They failed to do so, and their approach to the QBs in this draft bothered me for two reasons:
1. If you believe they tried to trade up for Maye, they laser focused on one guy and didn't have alternative options in a draft that provided them. If they need to fall in full bloom love with a QB to even consider drafting him they are going to be counting on hitting a home run in their next swing (whenever that happens), and then they're going to give that guy the too-long leash that Jones has gotten. It's generally a bad approach that is going to waste a lot of years.
2. If they assessed that Maye was worth trading up for but the other three weren't even worth drafting at 6 I think we have a QB evaluation problem. I'm not sure Maye was even a better prospect let alone that much better. But these guys paid Daniel Jones so it shouldn't surprise us that there's a QB evaluation problem.
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bw, I wanted to take McCarthy at 6. If I recall you did not think McCarthy was a lottery prospect. You definitely did not think Penix was. I don't recall your opinion on Nix, but I think you were on board in the 2nd round.
I have a tough time faulting Schoen if he shared your opinion on the QBs I mentioned above. Your theory on a soft Maye offer would hold more water if the Pats traded the pick to the Vikings.
Not everything is black or white. The Giants can like Jones to be their QB to start 2024 and it means nothing with regards to 2025.
Let me give you an example of a team acting like they really want to move on from their QB. Not this soft, nuanced non-sense form Schoen.
Denver.
Wilson is a SB champion, multiple all pros & pro bowls, and a likely HoFamer. And a massive hit to the Broncos cap finances for the next year or two.
But Peyton, a great HC, offensive planner and QB developer, said he's had enough of Wilson. And he's ready to take his medicine now on the cap and find a new QB. So, he drafted Nix at #12 and has absolutely zero regrets about telling Wilson to not have the door hit him in the ass on the way out of Denver.
That's how real teams who want to move on from a real franchise QB act.
That's a good point, but Payton has pelts on the wall (or a pelt), Schoen doesn't. I think it's clear that Schoen didn't value this QB class as much as others did. I was not a big fan of Nix's, but I thought his best landing spot was in Denver. It will be interesting to watch.
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Daboll, Kafka and for that matter Shoen not know this?
They know this.
In fact, how they game-planned him in 2022 confirms this. He wasn't reading the field very much. If his main read wasn't wide open he either tucked and ran or dumped off to a safety valve.
I don't see that conclusion at all. Schoen very easily could have thought any or all of those QB's were better than Jones, but still weren't good enough to get us to the next level.
It's about opportunity cost; Jones is a sunk cost, investing in another QB is not. Give Jones a better OL and the most explosive player in the draft. If it works, great; if not, they can address the QB spot next year.
You wrote that Schoen could have thought Jones was better than many of these QB prospects. And revamping the OL and bringing in more firepower was a plan they trusted moving forward with Jones. Isn't that what I basically said, too?
BTW, a QB on a rookie contract isn't a cap albatross. So, we could have easily absorbed that investment.
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In addition, my initial point wasn't just about these three, but all of the talking heads. You'd be hard-pressed (maybe Kiper) to find anyone who believes in Daniel Jones. Whether you agree with that or not.
Wait are we really going by talking heads analysis instead of Daballs and Joe and Kafka? They could have easily signed another QB in FA they didnt, they could have easily drafted another QB if they liked one better, they didnt. Why dont we trust the actual experts instead of the talking heads? BTW whose the coach in Denver that said Dan could be a playoff winning QB -Sean Payton but Mina says lol
Why question them?
Because they made a horrific decision to Franchise Barkley and sign Jones to a $160 million deal.
If you haven't noticed, the goodwill they built up in 2022 evaporated in 2023.
Or despite scouting the majority of the QB class in person last year and spending a ton of time with most of the top prospects in the evaluation phase…they determined that only one player fit the criteria of what they were looking for
Any way to spin a situation negatively….you will find
Tell us more about the “tepid” offer we made for Maye….prime example
What are we arguing about here? Aren't we basically agreeing on the outcome?
I said Schoen may have had interest in Maye if he could get his price. Let's call that Plan A.
When he couldn't get his price to buy the Pats' spot, he seemed to have no problem switching to Plan B, which was staying hitched to Jones and bringing in more players to help Jones.
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Or despite scouting the majority of the QB class in person last year and spending a ton of time with most of the top prospects in the evaluation phase…they determined that only one player fit the criteria of what they were looking for
Any way to spin a situation negatively….you will find
Tell us more about the “tepid” offer we made for Maye….prime example
What are we arguing about here? Aren't we basically agreeing on the outcome?
I said Schoen may have had interest in Maye if he could get his price. Let's call that Plan A.
When he couldn't get his price to buy the Pats' spot, he seemed to have no problem switching to Plan B, which was staying hitched to Jones and bringing in more players to help Jones.
You mean like spinning and saying that we made a tepid offer to NE