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For those wanting an initial look at the 2025 QB Class

Sy'56 : 5/16/2024 4:52 pm
Here you go
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RE: bw in dc.  
JT039 : 5/16/2024 7:13 pm : link
In comment 16517331 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I'm like 'Can't wait for the season to start...'/insert eye roll emoji. I can't recall a season I've been less enthused about in awhile...maybe the mid '90s? & before people dunk on me, yeah...I'm going to watch the games/I'm not a fair weather fan, but my enthusiasm level for this coming year is below the ground. I hope I'm wrong & we surprise the world, but I'm sure AF not expecting it.


Then don’t fucking watch. Holy shit.

If you can’t look forward to see what our young defense can do, see what Nabers can bring to the table, and eee if the new OL pieces pan out - then maybe you are a fair weather fan.

You’re obsession for Jones is truly remarkable.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2024 7:15 pm : link
Your obsession with me is remarkable. You don't like me/my posts...cool, take a #. That's fine dude. You don't have to respond. How about I don't respond to you & you don't respond to me? Deal?
Those  
Toth029 : 5/16/2024 7:16 pm : link
2014 and 2015 rosters were in much worse condition than the current group.

It helped they had Eli freaking Manning but he was wasted nonetheless. Defensively, they were starting fringe guys. Offensive players they relied on were non-starters on other teams.
RE: ...  
JT039 : 5/16/2024 7:18 pm : link
In comment 16517334 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Your obsession with me is remarkable. You don't like me/my posts...cool, take a #. That's fine dude. You don't have to respond. How about I don't respond to you & you don't respond to me? Deal?


As long as you continue to hijack threads with your same tone and attitude- I’ll feel free to respond. Thank you though.

There’s more to life than obsessing over Daniel Jones.
Sanders had numerous  
M.S. : 5/16/2024 7:18 pm : link
WOW passes last season. IMO, has NFL star potential.
RE: So far  
giantstock : 5/16/2024 7:19 pm : link
In comment 16517236 Spider43 said:
Quote:
Only two teams with obvious needs there, this early? LVR and NYG. Not as strong a class, but I like both Beck and Ewers. Dubious about Sanders right now, most especially because of his father (who's still a douche). But it's still early.


But there are a lot of Teams that may jump at the chance for a QB- because their QB for example are getting old or just aren't good or they are stuck in rebuild.

1--- Jets
2--- Steelers
3--- Tennesseee
4--- Rams
5--- Saints
6--- Seahawks
7--- Tampa Bay .

Toth.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2024 7:19 pm : link
The '15 team was weirdly competitive despite the lack of elite talent. They lost a lot of games that fall that still bug me: Week 1 in Dallas, Week 2 vs. Atlanta, that game in NOLA, the WFT game in DC, the Jets game, the Beckham vs. Norman game...& the one that took the cake IMO...the Pats game. If Collins doesn't try to make that absurd leap for an INT, DRC is right there to pick it off. Game over.
RE: Sanders had numerous  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2024 7:20 pm : link
In comment 16517339 M.S. said:
Quote:
WOW passes last season. IMO, has NFL star potential.


No chance in hell the Giants take Sanders considering his old man.
RE: Arch Manning  
rasbutant : 5/16/2024 9:32 pm : link
In comment 16517302 Archer said:
Quote:
I don't want to overhype Arch but he was amazing at the Orange-White spring game.

Normally I watch spring practice games out of curiosity.
Once in a while, something happens that is just special.

You have to watch Arch against the first-team defense.

Arch will be special. If I am the Giants I do everything possible to be in the position to draft him.

See the link below..... Link - ( New Window )


Wow, I thought he was being overhyped because of the name. He looks really good!!!
Great  
AcidTest : 5/16/2024 9:48 pm : link
stuff! Thanks.
RE: Arch Manning  
bw in dc : 5/16/2024 10:07 pm : link
In comment 16517302 Archer said:
Quote:
I don't want to overhype Arch but he was amazing at the Orange-White spring game.

Normally I watch spring practice games out of curiosity.
Once in a while, something happens that is just special.

You have to watch Arch against the first-team defense.

Arch will be special. If I am the Giants I do everything possible to be in the position to draft him.

See the link below..... Link - ( New Window )


After skipping Uncle Peyton and Eli, Grandpa Arch's speed and mobility gene finally re-surfaced...

Thx Sy. Great podcast  
Earl the goat : 5/16/2024 10:16 pm : link
I predict Cam Ward will enter your top 5 by end of season

Fantastic job Sy  
uncledave : 5/16/2024 10:18 pm : link
After watching this I’d love to snag Milroe. We’ll see how the season goes.
Excellent from Sy  
Go Terps : 5/16/2024 10:21 pm : link
May 2024 and we're all looking at the 2025 QBs.

You can tell everyone feels something is wrong.
RE: Excellent from Sy  
Mbavaro : 5/16/2024 10:50 pm : link
In comment 16517677 Go Terps said:
Quote:
May 2024 and we're all looking at the 2025 QBs.

You can tell everyone feels something is wrong.


Gee…when have I heard that before Rain Man
Hey Sy, just curious  
widmerseyebrow : 5/16/2024 10:56 pm : link
Has anyone ever told you you're the fuckin' man?
RE: RE: Excellent from Sy  
Go Terps : 5/16/2024 11:00 pm : link
In comment 16517696 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16517677 Go Terps said:


Quote:


May 2024 and we're all looking at the 2025 QBs.

You can tell everyone feels something is wrong.



Gee…when have I heard that before Rain Man


Can anyone tell me which dupe this is? It's right there bit I can't spot it. Driving me crazy.
RE: RE: RE: Excellent from Sy  
bw in dc : 5/16/2024 11:21 pm : link
In comment 16517704 Go Terps said:
Quote:

Can anyone tell me which dupe this is? It's right there bit I can't spot it. Driving me crazy.


Let me reach out to Gatorade Dunk, who has a PhD in dupe detection.

Besides grammar and syntax, his other passion is dupe hunting... ;)
RE: RE: RE: Excellent from Sy  
Mbavaro : 5/16/2024 11:45 pm : link
In comment 16517704 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16517696 Mbavaro said:


Quote:


In comment 16517677 Go Terps said:


Quote:


May 2024 and we're all looking at the 2025 QBs.

You can tell everyone feels something is wrong.



Gee…when have I heard that before Rain Man



Can anyone tell me which dupe this is? It's right there bit I can't spot it. Driving me crazy.


Not a dupe
But do you not literally not repeat the same thing multiple times a day….every day….over and over and over again?

People can be fairly new here and easily deduce they your message board Tourette’s type of behavior is weird
Great video Sy  
Go Terps : 5/17/2024 12:45 am : link
Not a great looking group of quarterbacks. Oof.
RE: Great video Sy  
Mike in NY : 5/17/2024 1:55 am : link
In comment 16517733 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Not a great looking group of quarterbacks. Oof.


They are a year away and a lot can happen in that time. While there may not be anyone of Caleb Williams’s hype, there are a number of options who appear to have the potential to be better than the QB’s who were available to the Giants at 6th overall pick this year. This is especially true if the Giants are as bad as people like Lombardi think they will be. Of course the QB options could also fall flat this upcoming season because of their respective issues. Many of the names in the 2024 Draft class were not talked about as highly as they went if you look back at May 17, 2023.
Mertz ain't it either  
BigBlueCane : 5/17/2024 3:50 am : link
Good QBs in college get options and offers to go to the best programs.

He didn't.

re: Mertz/Dart  
Sy'56 : 5/17/2024 4:03 am : link
They were guys that "just missed" this list but I didn't do much studying on them yet just FYI

Mertz I don't see it - Dart can be a dude though
RE: Thanks, Sy  
barens : 5/17/2024 7:13 am : link
In comment 16517278 Anakim said:
Quote:
Beck is my QB1. Was hoping to hear something on Conner Weigman and Cam Ward.


Weigman is going to be an interesting one to watch this year, kind of my x-factor.

I think Miller Moss can put his name in the conversation once the season starts.
Milroe's ceiling is clearly the highest  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 5/17/2024 8:29 am : link
Interesting to see how he navigates a tough year with the new offense, the line isn't as strong, losing receivers, etc.
Don't sleep on  
Semipro Lineman : 5/17/2024 9:28 am : link
DJ Uiagalelei
Thanks 'Sy  
UberAlias : 5/17/2024 9:41 am : link
There may not be any in the range of QB 1-3 this past year, but odds are one or more will emerge that's every bit the prospect of QB 4-6. If there was an elite prospect in the class, unlikely we'd be in position to draft him anyway.
RE: RE: So far  
Optimus-NY : 5/17/2024 9:47 am : link
In comment 16517243 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16517236 Spider43 said:


Quote:


Only two teams with obvious needs there, this early? LVR and NYG. Not as strong a class, but I like both Beck and Ewers. Dubious about Sanders right now, most especially because of his father (who's still a douche). But it's still early.



Sanders' aura smells like the Ball family (NBA)


Yeah. I want NO part of him.
I just went through the whole post  
KDavies : 5/17/2024 9:51 am : link
not counting Arch (he's not coming out), I counted 15 QBs mentioned. That is a lot. Some will flame out, some will be late round picks, but some will rise, and others may come on the scene.

This jives with my early opinion of next year's draft re QBs: it is deep. It may not hold a player the level of Caleb Williams, though at this point who knows if he lives up to the hype. But the Giants should have plenty of options in the top couple rounds to get a QB next year. There may not be the top end as '24 (and let's be real, some of those guys were late risers), but I think there will be a lot more quality depth. And with that comes many options for QBs to stand out.
RE: RE: RE: Don't get the love for Ewers  
Andrew in Austin : 5/17/2024 9:59 am : link
In comment 16517319 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 16517297 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16517267 ElitoCanton said:


Quote:


He's looked bad every time I've seen him.



Arm talent is pretty high level, but there is a nonchalance to his game that is a bit of a turn-off.

Sy is right about the Alabama game last year in Tuscaloosa. Ewers was awesome.



Ewers had a lot of really good games. Stats were 3,479 yds, 22 TDs, 6 Ints, 78+ QBR


I'm not excited about Ewers. Maybe I am just unlucky but every time I watch him play (son goes to UT) he makes beautiful passes followed by boneheaded decisions. I feel like his WRs bail him out a bit too.
RE: Thanks 'Sy  
Mike in NY : 5/17/2024 10:22 am : link
In comment 16517867 UberAlias said:
Quote:
There may not be any in the range of QB 1-3 this past year, but odds are one or more will emerge that's every bit the prospect of QB 4-6. If there was an elite prospect in the class, unlikely we'd be in position to draft him anyway.


That is my take on the class as well although there are a few that I think have the potential to be graded higher than Drake Maye. Milroe has Penix's coaching staff from Washington so you will be able to see those two in as close to a side to side comparison as you will get. What makes this class tougher is that the odds of your or my scenarios are about as good as this class falling flat on their collective face and we have a draft that looks like 2022.
RE: I just went through the whole post  
Mike in NY : 5/17/2024 10:23 am : link
In comment 16517878 KDavies said:
Quote:
not counting Arch (he's not coming out), I counted 15 QBs mentioned. That is a lot. Some will flame out, some will be late round picks, but some will rise, and others may come on the scene.

This jives with my early opinion of next year's draft re QBs: it is deep. It may not hold a player the level of Caleb Williams, though at this point who knows if he lives up to the hype. But the Giants should have plenty of options in the top couple rounds to get a QB next year. There may not be the top end as '24 (and let's be real, some of those guys were late risers), but I think there will be a lot more quality depth. And with that comes many options for QBs to stand out.


IAWTP
RE: RE: RE: RE: Don't get the love for Ewers  
barens : 5/17/2024 10:38 am : link
In comment 16517885 Andrew in Austin said:
Quote:
In comment 16517319 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 16517297 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16517267 ElitoCanton said:


Quote:


He's looked bad every time I've seen him.



Arm talent is pretty high level, but there is a nonchalance to his game that is a bit of a turn-off.

Sy is right about the Alabama game last year in Tuscaloosa. Ewers was awesome.



Ewers had a lot of really good games. Stats were 3,479 yds, 22 TDs, 6 Ints, 78+ QBR



I'm not excited about Ewers. Maybe I am just unlucky but every time I watch him play (son goes to UT) he makes beautiful passes followed by boneheaded decisions. I feel like his WRs bail him out a bit too.


I'm a fan of Ewers, and I thinking more year of college will be a big benefit to him.
Maybe we should let next year play out  
Dave on the UWS : 5/17/2024 10:49 am : link
(for the college season), before we start crying "woe is me, there aren't any decent replacement for DJ".
That Howard kid  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/17/2024 12:43 pm : link
Intrigues me 6’5” and 242 lbs and is tough and durable. I did not know who he was until today, but I will be checking him out at Ohio State this year. Thank you Sy.
RE: How many QBs from the 2024 draft  
Amtoft : 5/17/2024 1:42 pm : link
In comment 16517272 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
were on the radar at this time last year?


Caleb and Maye were considered to be locks for picks 1 and 2 at this time last year. Penix was also on the radar of just finishing the season without injury, but a monster year. Nix had also just put up a big year and people were curious to see it again. JJM was probably the Carson Beck of the group flashing a lot as first time starter. Jayden Daniels is the one that really moved up after a good JR year, but nothing like his last year.
Jalen Milroe is intriguing  
Jim in Forest Hills : 5/17/2024 1:44 pm : link
I know he's raw as hell. Could end up Joe Webb. But he'll have Deboer coaching him. Just want to see what he becomes.
I am surprised  
Amtoft : 5/17/2024 1:54 pm : link
more people don't talk about Will Rogers. He is on Washington and it sucks his coach left for Alabama. It would have been nice to see him have another monster year.
RE: RE: How many QBs from the 2024 draft  
Mike in NY : 5/17/2024 2:09 pm : link
In comment 16518194 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 16517272 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


were on the radar at this time last year?



Caleb and Maye were considered to be locks for picks 1 and 2 at this time last year. Penix was also on the radar of just finishing the season without injury, but a monster year. Nix had also just put up a big year and people were curious to see it again. JJM was probably the Carson Beck of the group flashing a lot as first time starter. Jayden Daniels is the one that really moved up after a good JR year, but nothing like his last year.


McCarthy was a Day 2 guy up until the college playoffs. Nix was like where Graham Mertz is now. Had his best year after not looking any better than Day 3 at a prior program so you wanted to see where he would go. Penix was more on the radar, but not really a guy you had in the Williams/Maye tier. Riley Leonard was also talked about a lot. Sam Hartman and Spencer Rattler were also on watch lists. Nobody really mentioned Daniels. Michael Pratt also was getting some hype (although lesser than the others) since Tulane had knocked off USC.
RE: RE: RE: How many QBs from the 2024 draft  
Amtoft : 5/17/2024 2:23 pm : link
In comment 16518253 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16518194 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 16517272 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


were on the radar at this time last year?



Caleb and Maye were considered to be locks for picks 1 and 2 at this time last year. Penix was also on the radar of just finishing the season without injury, but a monster year. Nix had also just put up a big year and people were curious to see it again. JJM was probably the Carson Beck of the group flashing a lot as first time starter. Jayden Daniels is the one that really moved up after a good JR year, but nothing like his last year.



McCarthy was a Day 2 guy up until the college playoffs. Nix was like where Graham Mertz is now. Had his best year after not looking any better than Day 3 at a prior program so you wanted to see where he would go. Penix was more on the radar, but not really a guy you had in the Williams/Maye tier. Riley Leonard was also talked about a lot. Sam Hartman and Spencer Rattler were also on watch lists. Nobody really mentioned Daniels. Michael Pratt also was getting some hype (although lesser than the others) since Tulane had knocked off USC.


Nix was in a better spot than Graham Mertz as he was really good in his first year at Oregon. I can see the comparison though.

At one point last year JJM was off to a great start with 18 TDs in his first 8 games and only INTs in the one Bowling Green game. He was averaging well over 200 yards per game and that is the first people were like ok JJM we see you. He finished slow though. He only threw 4 TDs in his last 7 games and people put him in the 2nd day, however his start was really good and people were moving him up.

No one was in the pre 2023 season Caleb/Maye tier and there isn't one now. From the start of the year that is. Carson Beck is the closest to that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: How many QBs from the 2024 draft  
Mike in NY : 5/17/2024 2:31 pm : link
In comment 16518285 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 16518253 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 16518194 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 16517272 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


were on the radar at this time last year?



Caleb and Maye were considered to be locks for picks 1 and 2 at this time last year. Penix was also on the radar of just finishing the season without injury, but a monster year. Nix had also just put up a big year and people were curious to see it again. JJM was probably the Carson Beck of the group flashing a lot as first time starter. Jayden Daniels is the one that really moved up after a good JR year, but nothing like his last year.



McCarthy was a Day 2 guy up until the college playoffs. Nix was like where Graham Mertz is now. Had his best year after not looking any better than Day 3 at a prior program so you wanted to see where he would go. Penix was more on the radar, but not really a guy you had in the Williams/Maye tier. Riley Leonard was also talked about a lot. Sam Hartman and Spencer Rattler were also on watch lists. Nobody really mentioned Daniels. Michael Pratt also was getting some hype (although lesser than the others) since Tulane had knocked off USC. KDavies did a great job summarizing my thoughts about the 2025 class as of now.



Nix was in a better spot than Graham Mertz as he was really good in his first year at Oregon. I can see the comparison though.

At one point last year JJM was off to a great start with 18 TDs in his first 8 games and only INTs in the one Bowling Green game. He was averaging well over 200 yards per game and that is the first people were like ok JJM we see you. He finished slow though. He only threw 4 TDs in his last 7 games and people put him in the 2nd day, however his start was really good and people were moving him up.

No one was in the pre 2023 season Caleb/Maye tier and there isn't one now. From the start of the year that is. Carson Beck is the closest to that.


I am talking about where they were in May 2023. McCarthy if he was even talked about was more of a Day 2 guy at that point and that was only because of how much Michigan won with him at QB. I realize the comparisons won't be exact, but trying to get as close as possible to those in this year's crop so people have a better idea.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How many QBs from the 2024 draft  
Amtoft : 5/17/2024 2:59 pm : link
In comment 16518298 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16518285 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 16518253 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 16518194 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 16517272 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


were on the radar at this time last year?



Caleb and Maye were considered to be locks for picks 1 and 2 at this time last year. Penix was also on the radar of just finishing the season without injury, but a monster year. Nix had also just put up a big year and people were curious to see it again. JJM was probably the Carson Beck of the group flashing a lot as first time starter. Jayden Daniels is the one that really moved up after a good JR year, but nothing like his last year.



McCarthy was a Day 2 guy up until the college playoffs. Nix was like where Graham Mertz is now. Had his best year after not looking any better than Day 3 at a prior program so you wanted to see where he would go. Penix was more on the radar, but not really a guy you had in the Williams/Maye tier. Riley Leonard was also talked about a lot. Sam Hartman and Spencer Rattler were also on watch lists. Nobody really mentioned Daniels. Michael Pratt also was getting some hype (although lesser than the others) since Tulane had knocked off USC. KDavies did a great job summarizing my thoughts about the 2025 class as of now.



Nix was in a better spot than Graham Mertz as he was really good in his first year at Oregon. I can see the comparison though.

At one point last year JJM was off to a great start with 18 TDs in his first 8 games and only INTs in the one Bowling Green game. He was averaging well over 200 yards per game and that is the first people were like ok JJM we see you. He finished slow though. He only threw 4 TDs in his last 7 games and people put him in the 2nd day, however his start was really good and people were moving him up.

No one was in the pre 2023 season Caleb/Maye tier and there isn't one now. From the start of the year that is. Carson Beck is the closest to that.



I am talking about where they were in May 2023. McCarthy if he was even talked about was more of a Day 2 guy at that point and that was only because of how much Michigan won with him at QB. I realize the comparisons won't be exact, but trying to get as close as possible to those in this year's crop so people have a better idea.


That is true...although I don't think most people were thinking McCarthy was coming out in this draft at that time. Most thought he would be a 2025 QB and he was being talked about being a high draft choice in that draft.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Excellent from Sy  
djm : 5/17/2024 3:42 pm : link
In comment 16517714 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16517704 Go Terps said:


Quote:



Can anyone tell me which dupe this is? It's right there bit I can't spot it. Driving me crazy.



Let me reach out to Gatorade Dunk, who has a PhD in dupe detection.

Besides grammar and syntax, his other passion is dupe hunting... ;)


It’s uncanny how good he is at de-duping people. Few others here are good at it too. I on the other hand have absolutely no dupe radar skills.
RE: bw in dc.  
section125 : 5/17/2024 3:48 pm : link
In comment 16517331 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I'm like 'Can't wait for the season to start...'/insert eye roll emoji. I can't recall a season I've been less enthused about in awhile...maybe the mid '90s? & before people dunk on me, yeah...I'm going to watch the games/I'm not a fair weather fan, but my enthusiasm level for this coming year is below the ground. I hope I'm wrong & we surprise the world, but I'm sure AF not expecting it.


I just cannot spend that much time dwelling on the QBs at this time of the year.
It really wears everyone down reading the same shit over and over. Yeah, yeah yeah - then don't read it. BS - take a break. Don't repeat yourselves several times per day. I would like to read about the prospects without seeing the whining.

We all want a new QB. We all know Jones ain't it. The rest of us are just not infatuated enough to excoriate him at every opportunity, because it is not necessary. We all know he is brutally mediocre.

My rant is over - for today. Thank you.
RE: Thank you.  
NJBlueTuna : 5/17/2024 4:00 pm : link
In comment 16517268 90.Cal said:
Quote:
I work with my head down and my head phones on. It helps to have something to listen to while at work, so thank you, seriously. & if you ever got into doing longer videos, talking more ball, I would 100% listen and I’m sure a lot of people will as well.

WR summer preview next? & if I may, right now, who you drafting first Burden III or Tet McMillan?


McMillan and I do not think it’s even close.
Very dark horse? Kyle McCord  
VTChuck : 5/17/2024 4:07 pm : link
23 starter for Ohio State. Transferred to Syracuse for his Senior year.

Jersey kid, 4/5 rated recruit out of HS. Ties to SU staff including former NYG running backs coach Nixon now Orange OC

6’3” 215 lbs pocket passer. Strong arm, quick release. Winner and a leader.

As an SU alum, I hope he kicks ass in the ACC
RE: re: Mertz/Dart  
Simms11 : 5/17/2024 4:25 pm : link
In comment 16517747 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
They were guys that "just missed" this list but I didn't do much studying on them yet just FYI

Mertz I don't see it - Dart can be a dude though


I like what I’ve seen from Dart
RE: That Howard kid  
Johnny5 : 5/17/2024 7:23 pm : link
In comment 16518100 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Intrigues me 6’5” and 242 lbs and is tough and durable. I did not know who he was until today, but I will be checking him out at Ohio State this year. Thank you Sy.

I agree, out of everyone in the vid, Howard is the one I find most intriguing.
A far cry from this year's class, at least on paper.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/17/2024 11:48 pm : link
Great job, Joe!
I think everyone’s problem with jones  
Bleedblue10 : 5/19/2024 10:49 am : link
Is that we know he is never going to take us to where every team ultimately wants to go. Eli manning proved that the right team, gelling at the right time, can win it all and even though we had a bunch of bad seasons sprinkled in, at any point it could all turn around for the better. Cause it happened, he did it twice! Jones will never be able to do that for us so when people say they aren’t enthused about the upcoming season I get it. The outcome is inevitable. Maybe he takes us to the playoffs, maybe we win 4 games. Doesn’t matter cause at the end of the day we have no shot at the real outcome we all want
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