-The improved OL will not make Daniel Jones better.
-Carmen Bracillo will not make Daniel Jones better.
However those things could very well prove what Daniel Jones talent level is because he has pieces now that allow a QBs talent to be converted to actual legitimate NFL caliber production.
So it's not that he will be better from a talent standpoint, it's more so that the pieces around him now would get us to see exactly just how talented he really is.
I think as fans we throw the word around 'better' way to loosely and need some perspective on what being 'better' actually means in this case.
If Daniel Jones is hot garbage as some think he is, then his lack of talent will inevitably limit the offense to be highly productive even with stronger pieces now supposedly in place.
That’s my fear with this team. Remember all of those 8-8, 9-7 level teams we had in the 90’s riding a good defense with a very pedestrian offense?
As we sit today, he is the best chance for the Giants to be good. In 2022 he improved his ability to sense pressure and move in th pocket. He greatly improved his fumbling/turnover issues. He showed he could lead the team to comeback wins.
We all agree that 2023 was a shitshow on many levels.
This is rational, but little about DJ’s pro/con “discussion” is rational. The final excuse will be that the NYG ruined his career and potential due to multiple coaches, bad lines and weak supporting cast. He wasn’t injury prone, he was just under constant physical assault.
Players rely on others.
Are you saying that a better OL, better receivers, better running game doesn't help your QB perform better?
I don’t think there has been a player in the NFL in recent memory who has had more excuses made for his pedestrian career than Daniel Jones.
Are you saying that a better OL, better receivers, better running game doesn't help your QB perform better?
I will take a stab at interpreting.
The OP is saying Jones' talent level at this point is a constant. His arm strength won't improve, his accuracy won't improve, His decision making and reading a defense won't improve. His speed, agility, and athleticism won't improve. Or get worse with any of these things too - to be fair. He is what he is.
A better OL, better skill position players, better play calling, etc. can help him perform better IOW produce better results, but it will not change his talent level.
That is my interpretation....of the OP, not agreeing or disagreeing that is what I think he is saying.
Quote:
I think the answer is firmly no, but that allows room for way more "success" than last year. Eeking into the playoffs while having no real hope of winning it all isn't something I care to watch year in year out.
That’s my fear with this team. Remember all of those 8-8, 9-7 level teams we had in the 90’s riding a good defense with a very pedestrian offense?
At least then there was a glimmer of hope that if they could just find the QB, they'd be on to something. They gave Brown more than a fair shake and after that the team started bringing new QBs into the fold in a variety of ways until they got some luck signing Collins. And even Collins going to the SB wasn't enough to not move on to a better QB when the opportunity presented itself. I look forward to the day when we make an earnest effort to upgrade the position either by drafting another uncontested starter or even a developmental lotto ticket. Here's hoping Lock is closer to Collins than Graham. Pathetic.
Live look at the gymnastics underway in OPs brain...
I don’t think there has been a player in the NFL in recent memory who has had more excuses made for his pedestrian career than Daniel Jones.
Baker is the only one we can analyze since he had some nice pieces last year.
This is where Daball, Kafka and Tierney come in.
With Nabers and Robinson, the quick passing game should be much improved regardless of if / how much the OL improves. Singletary is an above average pass catcher too.
This is where Daball, Kafka and Tierney come in.
With Nabers and Robinson, the quick passing game should be much improved regardless of if / how much the OL improves. Singletary is an above average pass catcher too.
There is not a single shred of evidence to the oft-repeated truism that QBs get ruined.
Finding (and keeping) quality OL coaches isn't easy.
Plus 1 here. I believe this is the major concern regarding DJ. He just doesn’t process or see the field.
Sure he has...He stepped up the last time he was called.
This, the line has been awful for so long I have to see them do something to have any faith. We’ve seen decent lineman come here and play worse before.
Quote:
saying here?
Are you saying that a better OL, better receivers, better running game doesn't help your QB perform better?
I will take a stab at interpreting.
The OP is saying Jones' talent level at this point is a constant. His arm strength won't improve, his accuracy won't improve, His decision making and reading a defense won't improve. His speed, agility, and athleticism won't improve. Or get worse with any of these things too - to be fair. He is what he is.
A better OL, better skill position players, better play calling, etc. can help him perform better IOW produce better results, but it will not change his talent level.
That is my interpretation....of the OP, not agreeing or disagreeing that is what I think he is saying.
This is essentially it.
Daniel Jones talent is whatever it is mostly at this point.
But one can be extremely talented but not productive for various reasons.
The word 'better' in this case will not be because DJs talent or skillset got better, it will be because his production did mainly because of the stronger talent around him and better coaching of the OL.
If his production doesn't greatly improve with a stronger cast then maybe he never had good enough talent in the first place as some here have surmised.
Are you saying that a better OL, better receivers, better running game doesn't help your QB perform better?
That's a head scratcher for sure.
From a talent standpoint probably not, but from a production standpoint absolutely. An OL that gives up 85 sacks in a year is kind of hard to navigate , also a team without a decent #1 WR too. Not getting Maye stunk, but I'm rooting for him to succeed .
Intermediate sucking
Massive sucking
Some people are very impressed with his light sucking and call a season with 15TD's a career year
This is where Daball, Kafka and Tierney come in.
With Nabers and Robinson, the quick passing game should be much improved regardless of if / how much the OL improves. Singletary is an above average pass catcher too.
You guys are way over thinking this, whatever you think about DJ he is a professional athlete, throughout his years in college and somewhat as a pro, he's had to overcome many obstacles. I'm not saying he's a top 5 QB, but geez, give the guy some credit. Two years ago you were all kissing his ass. Give the guy a shot at redemption, if he doesn't perform, next in line to the huddle.
Intermediate sucking
Massive sucking
Some people are very impressed with his light sucking and call a season with 15TD's a career year
Unless your name is Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes, the others a) suck b) are ok c) have shown to be good but not great at a championship level. And there's many in b and c getting paid more than $50M.
Kyler Murray and Deshaun Watson for starters. Watson has a SB team around him yet is painfully underwhelming. Is now on a $63M cap hit. Russell Wilson (in category "a") was until Payton rightfully got out of his deal.
Point is, really. Why pay anyone that kind of bank unless they've shown to be a top guy? Unless you love regular season champs like Cousins, Prescott or Lamar.
Quote:
Light sucking
Intermediate sucking
Massive sucking
Some people are very impressed with his light sucking and call a season with 15TD's a career year
Unless your name is Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes, the others a) suck b) are ok c) have shown to be good but not great at a championship level. And there's many in b and c getting paid more than $50M.
Kyler Murray and Deshaun Watson for starters. Watson has a SB team around him yet is painfully underwhelming. Is now on a $63M cap hit. Russell Wilson (in category "a") was until Payton rightfully got out of his deal.
Point is, really. Why pay anyone that kind of bank unless they've shown to be a top guy? Unless you love regular season champs like Cousins, Prescott or Lamar.
I know this fallacy. Jones might suck, but everybody else sucks too, so Jones is not that bad.
Every single one of the QBs you mention are better than Janiel Dones. And they are worth their money more than Dones is worth his. You've lost your mind if you don't think Herbert or Lamar aren't better at their price than Dones is at his.
I’ll let reality set in in 4 months or so.
Quote:
In comment 16519201 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Light sucking
Intermediate sucking
Massive sucking
Some people are very impressed with his light sucking and call a season with 15TD's a career year
Unless your name is Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes, the others a) suck b) are ok c) have shown to be good but not great at a championship level. And there's many in b and c getting paid more than $50M.
Kyler Murray and Deshaun Watson for starters. Watson has a SB team around him yet is painfully underwhelming. Is now on a $63M cap hit. Russell Wilson (in category "a") was until Payton rightfully got out of his deal.
Point is, really. Why pay anyone that kind of bank unless they've shown to be a top guy? Unless you love regular season champs like Cousins, Prescott or Lamar.
I know this fallacy. Jones might suck, but everybody else sucks too, so Jones is not that bad.
Every single one of the QBs you mention are better than Janiel Dones. And they are worth their money more than Dones is worth his. You've lost your mind if you don't think Herbert or Lamar aren't better at their price than Dones is at his.
You certainly have a way of putting words in other people's mouth.
Jones is overpaid, sure but it doesn't mean a Jalen Hurts or Lamar is on the level of the original 3 I named.
The point was all about how Jones became paid. He showed potential which is why both Daboll and Schoen were okay with trying to build off from it. It hasn't worked, obviously. But do you pay a QB top dollar even if he's less than championship level? If so you're admitting you are content with being a one and done in the playoffs.
Russell Wilson is another primary example. You did your own fight for how he was well worth the trade and $50M in that very own thread. That aged nicely.
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=619911 - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16519257 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 16519201 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Light sucking
Intermediate sucking
Massive sucking
Some people are very impressed with his light sucking and call a season with 15TD's a career year
Unless your name is Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes, the others a) suck b) are ok c) have shown to be good but not great at a championship level. And there's many in b and c getting paid more than $50M.
Kyler Murray and Deshaun Watson for starters. Watson has a SB team around him yet is painfully underwhelming. Is now on a $63M cap hit. Russell Wilson (in category "a") was until Payton rightfully got out of his deal.
Point is, really. Why pay anyone that kind of bank unless they've shown to be a top guy? Unless you love regular season champs like Cousins, Prescott or Lamar.
I know this fallacy. Jones might suck, but everybody else sucks too, so Jones is not that bad.
Every single one of the QBs you mention are better than Janiel Dones. And they are worth their money more than Dones is worth his. You've lost your mind if you don't think Herbert or Lamar aren't better at their price than Dones is at his.
You certainly have a way of putting words in other people's mouth.
Jones is overpaid, sure but it doesn't mean a Jalen Hurts or Lamar is on the level of the original 3 I named.
The point was all about how Jones became paid. He showed potential which is why both Daboll and Schoen were okay with trying to build off from it. It hasn't worked, obviously. But do you pay a QB top dollar even if he's less than championship level? If so you're admitting you are content with being a one and done in the playoffs.
Russell Wilson is another primary example. You did your own fight for how he was well worth the trade and $50M in that very own thread. That aged nicely. https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=619911 - ( New Window )
But the Russell Wilson deal is instructive. The Broncos are not letting it cripple them. They've moved on and now have Nix starting. Whereas the Giants are the only team in the NFL that views a big contract to a QB as a marriage. Why? They are incapable of pivoting. It seems we are the only organization in the NFL that is broken in this way.
Joe Burrow is 3-1 career vs Kansas City and has 9 passing TD's in those games. 5-2 playoff record.
Lamar has just 6 TD's to go along with 6 INT's and 6 fumbles in six career playoff games. 2 playoff wins in six seasons. Out of the six playoff games, he's only thrown for 200+ twice.
Jalen Hurts has a SB appearance but needed to beat the 2022 Giants and QB less 49ers to reach it. Followed it up with an underwhelming 2023 season and one and done from the hands of Baker Mayfield and a mediocre Bucs squad.
They aren't close at all in terms of playoff success.
I was all for Schoen using the 6th pick on a McCarthy. Not Penix or Nix. But he didn't, and we'll see if he works out (MIN has a better current situation than a Nabers-less Giants offense). They would have drafted a QB there if they were in position. Forcing a move on one like Denver has doesn't necessarily make it the right move.
Obsession with Daniel Jones??He is the starting QB for Fs sake... Just the most important position in all of sports.
As far as I'm concerned we don't talk about him enough. At some point our fanbase became soft.
However, what is the harm in wishing him to succeed? It would be something if DJ can become the comeback player of the year for the team. Like I believe think of the worst but hope for the best. Until further notice he's our QB so let's get some positive energy out there.
Or the major concern that he does not see the whole field which leads him to miss open receivers (which he doesn't anticipate being open) which leads to him checking down and leaving plays on the field.
Or the major concern that he is not good at throwing some basic patters like end zone fades and seam passes which limits the offense to the passes he can throw- slants, bubble screens and short outs. DC's know this and plan accordingly thus limiting the offense.
Those are major concerns that he has had since he got here.
Are you saying that a better OL, better receivers, better running game doesn't help your QB perform better?
Have you thought about changing the name of the site to Daniel Jones Interactive? :-)
people really need to give this shit a rest. watch a baseball, basketball or hockey game. Go outside and breathe the air. Jeez.
Quote:
saying here?
Are you saying that a better OL, better receivers, better running game doesn't help your QB perform better?
Have you thought about changing the name of the site to Daniel Jones Interactive? :-)
people really need to give this shit a rest. watch a baseball, basketball or hockey game. Go outside and breathe the air. Jeez.
Yeah, Eric. WTF with all of these Giants fans coming to a Giants website to talk about the player how plays the most important position on the field for the Giants?
Why can’t we have more threads about stuff that has nothing to do with the Giants so fans like Victor aren’t forced into reading Giants-related content on a Giants board?
Seems to me the OP is preparing EXCUSES in case DJ plays well this year.
Quote:
The point is that Jones may play better because he has better pieces, but won’t actually BE better? Is that what the post is saying? Weird thing to try to differentiate.
Seems to me the OP is preparing EXCUSES in case DJ plays well this year.
I mean he can't play worse then last year. But that's not much of benchmark is it?
It's not. Fans like you on another thread speak of how bullsish you are on this team. SO in some manner many disagree with you. You are possibly massivley overrating him so just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean it's an obsession. For those that don't agree wiht your bullishness you are goign to twist this into an obesession? You have to rleiaze teh QB is most improtant, right? Everything starts wiht the QB, doesn't it? And many of you resist stating he is not good.
Quote:
We have added talent and the offense is going to be better this year. You don't think so--? Well, we're going to find out, aren't we?
It's not. Fans like you on another thread speak of how bullsish you are on this team. SO in some manner many disagree with you. You are possibly massivley overrating him so just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean it's an obsession. For those that don't agree wiht your bullishness you are goign to twist this into an obesession? You have to rleiaze teh QB is most improtant, right? Everything starts wiht the QB, doesn't it? And many of you resist stating he is not good.
Ok. You win. Do you feel better now?
Quote:
In comment 16518957 UberAlias said:
Quote:
We have added talent and the offense is going to be better this year. You don't think so--? Well, we're going to find out, aren't we?
It's not. Fans like you on another thread speak of how bullsish you are on this team. SO in some manner many disagree with you. You are possibly massivley overrating him so just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean it's an obsession. For those that don't agree wiht your bullishness you are goign to twist this into an obesession? You have to rleiaze teh QB is most improtant, right? Everything starts wiht the QB, doesn't it? And many of you resist stating he is not good.
Ok. You win. Do you feel better now?
Huh?