It's a fascinating topic to me as a fan in general.
During games I'm always rooting for the team to win, no matter the cost or benefit. Before and after the game, I'm more reasoned on what outcome is objectively best.
For instance, I 100% reject the hocus pocus notion that trying hard and winning meaningless games magically carries over to the next year. Or that treating meaningless games as exhibitions solicits a magical curse from the gods.
This year, I can't shake the idea that I would rather Daniel Jones unequivocally show he's not the answer, than tread water. I have no problem acknowledging I would rather the team go 3-14 than 7-10.
I'm perfectly comfortable with hoping players or coaches I don't think will ever be good, just prove it once and for all and move on.
Once the games start, I'll be rooting for Jones every second of every game. But between the games, I admit I have no confidence in him and hope he gets benched.
Anyone else feel that way?
If the Giants pull off an Alex Smith/Patrick Mahomes maneuver I'll be thrilled, and be delighted to be wrong. And by that I mean build a winner, trade up to draft a replacement, and recoup a pick (not draft arguably a top 5 quarterback of all time).
If the Giants pull off an Alex Smith/Patrick Mahomes maneuver I'll be thrilled, and be delighted to be wrong. And by that I mean build a winner, trade up to draft a replacement, and recoup a pick (not draft arguably a top 5 quarterback of all time).
the chiefs model is dynasty so id call that unlikely/unrealistic (agree, would obviously be thrilled with it).
the eagles with wentz/hurts may be more realistic. or niners with jimmyg/lance. those were both teams that at the time were not dynasties or coached by HOFers.
the more daboll gets out of jones the better though. value is value.
The players and coaches hopefully all feel the same way. It is also not easy to find people like this by watching film. It is what separates the great players from the talented who have no heart or desire.
While fans are rooting for losses to get a better draft pick, you have an entire organization doing everything they can to win on Sunday.
Players and coaches are putting their futures on film. There is no way they are tanking for any reason.
As a fan, you have to want the team to win as many games as possible regardless of what that would mean for the draft. Franchise QBs can be found outside of the top 10 if you know how to evaluate talent.
For all we know, Nabers could be a hall of famer one day.
What if the front office can't evaluate talent? Does anything change if they are just stuck in neutral winning 6-8 games a year because they will buy as much talent as the cap allows even though they're not good enough at other things?
WTF does a fan rooting for wins have to do with determining the outcome? I don't know if what you posted is what you meant but if you did, that is a weird reply.
A dream outcome is Jones recoups nominal value in 2024, they move up in 2025 to draft his replacement, and trade him at some point after.
But my guess is if he recoups value, that will signal to the Giants they were right in March of 2023. And they will expend no resources to replace him.
At the risk of desecrating the horse's corpse, I interpret every action they've taken as a vote of confidence in him.
A dream outcome is Jones recoups nominal value in 2024, they move up in 2025 to draft his replacement, and trade him at some point after.
But my guess is if he recoups value, that will signal to the Giants they were right in March of 2023. And they will expend no resources to replace him.
At the risk of desecrating the horse's corpse, I interpret every action they've taken as a vote of confidence in him.
If they liked Jones so much as you stated…then they wouldn’t have tried to trade up for Maye….if you are happy with your QB…then you don’t spend the time and resources they did this off season on every QB except Nix
A dream outcome is Jones recoups nominal value in 2024, they move up in 2025 to draft his replacement, and trade him at some point after.
But my guess is if he recoups value, that will signal to the Giants they were right in March of 2023. And they will expend no resources to replace him.
At the risk of desecrating the horse's corpse, I interpret every action they've taken as a vote of confidence in him.
or just resignation.....I honestly just do not know what they think. Perhaps Sy'56 was right and the whole Maye thing was a ruse to try and get Harrison?
BTW, I still think Maye is not what everyone thinks - not nearly as good. He might be Jones with a better arm.
They chose to go after Maye….did they not?
Takes two to tango on a trade
If you are happy with your QB you don’t try to trade up
If you are happy with your QB then you don’t spend the time and resources they did….did that not happen?
The QB they had a conviction on…they went after
It’s bizarre that you can’t see that their actions illustrate that they want an upgrade
If Jones has roughly the same season he had in 2022 again, and taking into consideration his cash cost goes down next year, do you believe they most likely:
A. Keep him
B. Get rid of him
If Jones has roughly the same season he had in 2022 again, and taking into consideration his cash cost goes down next year, do you believe they most likely:
A. Keep him
B. Get rid of him
If he does as well(or likely better passing) than 2022, they do keep him for 2025, if he is mostly healthy in 2024.
Here is my issue with 2022 and Jones. He will not be running like 2022. He cannot with that knee and I suspect Daboll will not call those RPOs. So how do you compare him with 2022? He will necessarily need to be better at throwing the ball to get near 2022 total numbers which are exceedingly boring.
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They investigated the available options and chose not to pursue them. That itself is a vote of confidence.
They chose to go after Maye….did they not?
Takes two to tango on a trade
If you are happy with your QB you don’t try to trade up
If you are happy with your QB then you don’t spend the time and resources they did….did that not happen?
The QB they had a conviction on…they went after
It’s bizarre that you can’t see that their actions illustrate that they want an upgrade
And yet they still have him as QB1.
They chose their QB and it's Daniel Jones.
If he does as well(or likely better passing) than 2022, they do keep him for 2025, if he is mostly healthy in 2024.
Here is my issue with 2022 and Jones. He will not be running like 2022. He cannot with that knee and I suspect Daboll will not call those RPOs. So how do you compare him with 2022? He will necessarily need to be better at throwing the ball to get near 2022 total numbers which are exceedingly boring.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. If he replicates his 2022 form (which is being just inside the top 15 of QBs), it will likely be done by throwing the ball better. I doubt it will be through running due to both the ACL and the reality that his running also wasn't there for 2023 because teams schemed for it (recall both the niners and seahawks blowing up plays by crashing right into him off of bootleg fakes).
Which leads me to my next point: if he plays above-average by throwing the ball, it means the Giants (gasp) were actually right about him, we're likely going to be watching entertaining football, and Schoen/Daboll will have gotten two seasons of him playing effectively. If they finish with 8 or 9 wins with one of the youngest rosters in the league, it means the arrow is pointing up with Schoen's core and Jones will actually be more affordable in 2025. While I wouldn't love it, they would have a very logical case for playing it out in 2025.
It's only Christian's 7-10, Jones playing mediocre scenario which is the nightmare, because (as he's speculated) I could see the Giants talking themselves into Jones again if even plays in the 15-20 range of QBs. I just see this scenario as being too unlikely, because if the team is playing at a 7-10 pace, I think Jones won't survive it due to fan and media pressure.
It's only Christian's 7-10, Jones playing mediocre scenario which is the nightmare, because (as he's speculated) I could see the Giants talking themselves into Jones again if even plays in the 15-20 range of QBs. I just see this scenario as being too unlikely, because if the team is playing at a 7-10 pace, I think Jones won't survive it due to fan and media pressure.
And to clarify this point, a 7-10 pace implies - based on the schedule - that the Giants are probably sitting at 3-6 at some point. I know we can never understimate the Giants' penchant for blaming their incompetence on ungrateful fans, but how are they going to get through another bad start like that without the anger being overwhelming?
Are Schoen and Mara actually going to talk about progress at their end-of-season presser for finishing 7-10? They probably would, but I bet someone doesn't survive that road to 7-10.
It's only Christian's 7-10, Jones playing mediocre scenario which is the nightmare, because (as he's speculated) I could see the Giants talking themselves into Jones again if even plays in the 15-20 range of QBs. I just see this scenario as being too unlikely, because if the team is playing at a 7-10 pace, I think Jones won't survive it due to fan and media pressure.
We are playing the "if" game.
IMHO, if he not passing well enough, then after giving him a better oline and some pretty damn good WRs, then they solved their own question.
I realize I am going out on a limb in predicting the line will be vastly better this year (possibly being middle rung), but unless the line is at least that level, they will absolutely be unwatchable.
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In comment 16520923 christian said:
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They investigated the available options and chose not to pursue them. That itself is a vote of confidence.
They chose to go after Maye….did they not?
Takes two to tango on a trade
If you are happy with your QB you don’t try to trade up
If you are happy with your QB then you don’t spend the time and resources they did….did that not happen?
The QB they had a conviction on…they went after
It’s bizarre that you can’t see that their actions illustrate that they want an upgrade
And yet they still have him as QB1.
They chose their QB and it's Daniel Jones.
So….they clearly think the position needs an upgrade
They just weren’t able to get the guy they wanted
If Jones has roughly the same season he had in 2022 again, and taking into consideration his cash cost goes down next year, do you believe they most likely:
A. Keep him
B. Get rid of him
I have no idea….but again….their actions clearly indicate they need an upgrade
Do you think they went through this whole song and dance for shits and giggles?
A team doesn’t try to trade up for the 3rd pick in the draft for a QB if they are happy with their QB situation
Geez….let’s use some common sense here
Over the past 15 months the Giants have picked more Jones at a number of junctures.
- With the option to guarantee him 1/32M, they guaranteed him 2/82M
- With the option to retain a more accomplished Taylor, they let him go and chose the cheaper less established Lock
- With the option to draft 3 quarterbacks the league voted were top 12 prospects, they chose a WR
The only topic left up for debate is what they'll do next. As discussed endlessly the ACL/neck injuries weren't disqualifying, the availability of a bridge like Minshew was seemingly not pursued, the availability of a bridge like Wilson was seemingly not seriously courted, and the 3 aforementioned prospects not deemed good enough.
I think many believe investment in a player is binary, love him or waiting to replace him.
Jones breaks that construct, they like and appear to need to be blown away to replace him.
Over the past 15 months the Giants have picked more Jones at a number of junctures.
- With the option to guarantee him 1/32M, they guaranteed him 2/82M
- With the option to retain a more accomplished Taylor, they let him go and chose the cheaper less established Lock
- With the option to draft 3 quarterbacks the league voted were top 12 prospects, they chose a WR
The only topic left up for debate is what they'll do next. As discussed endlessly the ACL/neck injuries weren't disqualifying, the availability of a bridge like Minshew was seemingly not pursued, the availability of a bridge like Wilson was seemingly not seriously courted, and the 3 aforementioned prospects not deemed good enough.
I think many believe investment in a player is binary, love him or waiting to replace him.
Jones breaks that construct, they like and appear to need to be blown away to replace him.
What free agent options?
Kirk Cousins
Yes….they need to have a conviction on a QB
They had one…NE wouldn’t make the trade
If you are happy with your QB…then you don’t try to make a trade to replace him
Yes, on paper TT is a better QB. But what good does it do to re-sign a guy that more injured than the starter?
I admit to not knowing Lock much. But if the backup gets injured every time he steps on the field what good is he?
In 2020 when Lock got his chance he had a 57.3% completion rate, a 68.9% on target rate, and a 22,9% off target rate. All of those were worst among starters in the NFL.
You're going to love Drew Lock.
Over the past 15 months the Giants have picked more Jones at a number of junctures.
- With the option to guarantee him 1/32M, they guaranteed him 2/82M
- With the option to retain a more accomplished Taylor, they let him go and chose the cheaper less established Lock
- With the option to draft 3 quarterbacks the league voted were top 12 prospects, they chose a WR
The only topic left up for debate is what they'll do next. As discussed endlessly the ACL/neck injuries weren't disqualifying, the availability of a bridge like Minshew was seemingly not pursued, the availability of a bridge like Wilson was seemingly not seriously courted, and the 3 aforementioned prospects not deemed good enough.
I think many believe investment in a player is binary, love him or waiting to replace him.
Jones breaks that construct, they like and appear to need to be blown away to replace him.
What free agent options?
Kirk Cousins
Yes….they need to have a conviction on a QB
They had one…NE wouldn’t make the trade
If you are happy with your QB…then you don’t try to make a trade to replace him
If Daniel Jones repeats 2022 do you think they'll be happy with him?
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In comment 16520930 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16520923 christian said:
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They investigated the available options and chose not to pursue them. That itself is a vote of confidence.
They chose to go after Maye….did they not?
Takes two to tango on a trade
If you are happy with your QB you don’t try to trade up
If you are happy with your QB then you don’t spend the time and resources they did….did that not happen?
The QB they had a conviction on…they went after
It’s bizarre that you can’t see that their actions illustrate that they want an upgrade
And yet they still have him as QB1.
They chose their QB and it's Daniel Jones.
So….they clearly think the position needs an upgrade
They just weren’t able to get the guy they wanted
If they truly wanted to move on from Jones they would have done more than replace TT with Lock.
If DJ looks like the 2023 version, the only way I don't see BD being fired is by quickly pivoting to Lock. Otherwise yes, all that work they did this off-season will have been useless because BD (and maybe JS) get fired without drafting a QB.
My reaction to drafting Nabers was, and remains, we just flushed the 2024, 25, and maybe even 26 seasons down the drain.
In 2020 when Lock got his chance he had a 57.3% completion rate, a 68.9% on target rate, and a 22,9% off target rate. All of those were worst among starters in the NFL.
You're going to love Drew Lock.
Lovely....but I cannot get past TT's injuries. I liked him on the field despite bouncing balls.
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In comment 16521004 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16520930 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16520923 christian said:
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They investigated the available options and chose not to pursue them. That itself is a vote of confidence.
They chose to go after Maye….did they not?
Takes two to tango on a trade
If you are happy with your QB you don’t try to trade up
If you are happy with your QB then you don’t spend the time and resources they did….did that not happen?
The QB they had a conviction on…they went after
It’s bizarre that you can’t see that their actions illustrate that they want an upgrade
And yet they still have him as QB1.
They chose their QB and it's Daniel Jones.
So….they clearly think the position needs an upgrade
They just weren’t able to get the guy they wanted
If they truly wanted to move on from Jones they would have done more than replace TT with Lock.
If DJ looks like the 2023 version, the only way I don't see BD being fired is by quickly pivoting to Lock. Otherwise yes, all that work they did this off-season will have been useless because BD (and maybe JS) get fired without drafting a QB.
My reaction to drafting Nabers was, and remains, we just flushed the 2024, 25, and maybe even 26 seasons down the drain.
Huh?
So you are saying that they should have signed a free agent QB to replace Jones? Who would that be?…Cousins?
They chose the draft route (as they should)
They had their guy but you can’t force a team to trade with you
If they are so married to Jones…then you don’t try to trade up to number 3 to replace him
Did that not happen?
You believe you have better understanding of the QB than the team.
While possible, I consider this very unlikely.
I think you are trying to build an argument that you can still be a reasonable fan with this kind of take.
You can’t, It makes you a tool and you admit it. The lack of self awareness is staggering here.
If you can find a way in your mind to justifying being happy in a season that only wins 3 games because you think you know more than the people hired to run the team.
I only have one word for that.
That’s an asshole.
- If the Giants had a very low level of trust in Jones they could have cut him and signed a bridge starter like Minshew or Wilson.
- They could have signed a more accomplished back up like Taylor, Brisset, or Mariota.
- If they had a very low level of confidence in him, they could have taken one of the other three prospects the league voted were top 12 prospects.
Daboll and Schoen operate every day in defense of their job. They voted among their options he gave them the best chance to succeed, and they voted to not sign a serious threat to back him up.
They'll go through that same process next offseason. The only question unanswered is what they do next. They already gave him the vote of confidence this year.
You believe you have better understanding of the QB than the team.
While possible, I consider this very unlikely.
I think you are trying to build an argument that you can still be a reasonable fan with this kind of take.
You can’t, It makes you a tool and you admit it. The lack of self awareness is staggering here.
If you can find a way in your mind to justifying being happy in a season that only wins 3 games because you think you know more than the people hired to run the team.
I only have one word for that.
That’s an asshole.
How more reminders do you need to please stay away from threads I start? Your behavior is bordering on psychotic. In the 25 years I've participated in this community, I've never once flagged behavior to Eric. If you keep this up, I regrettably will have to.
In 2020 when Lock got his chance he had a 57.3% completion rate, a 68.9% on target rate, and a 22,9% off target rate. All of those were worst among starters in the NFL.
You're going to love Drew Lock.
I think people's confidence in Schoen/Daboll is way too high given their decisions at QB since joining are Taylor (fine), giving Jones a massive contract, and signing Drew Lock.
You only need to get the position right once, fortunately.
How more reminders do you need to please stay away from threads I start? Your behavior is bordering on psychotic. In the 25 years I've participated in this community, I've never once flagged behavior to Eric. If you keep this up, I regrettably will have to.
I learned a long time ago that we don't all need to open every thread.
But, to be fair, we also don't need to read every response.
In 2020 when Lock got his chance he had a 57.3% completion rate, a 68.9% on target rate, and a 22,9% off target rate. All of those were worst among starters in the NFL.
You're going to love Drew Lock.
I think people's confidence in Schoen/Daboll is way too high given their decisions at QB since joining are Taylor (fine), giving Jones a massive contract, and signing Drew Lock.
You only need to get the position right once, fortunately.
I largely agree.
I think a decent way to look at is: the last times Jones poked his head above water they gave him 2/82M.
What will he have to do to get another 1/30M? What we have to do to earn another 2/78M?
yeah, thought that this morning - the Every Ready Bunny of BBI!
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You do not, because fans don't control anything. All we can do is observe.
WTF does a fan rooting for wins have to do with determining the outcome? I don't know if what you posted is what you meant but if you did, that is a weird reply.
Look at it a different way.
You're a fan of a team that has had *two* winning seasons in 10 years.
As a fan, the *only* power you have is your own voice and your wallet.
Does any message get sent to the people running the place if all you do is sit and clap and keep it positive and root root root for the home team? I'm not sure that fans from the 70s would say yes. So no, I don't think everyone needs to root for every win possible. The only thing this franchise has ever been motivated to action by is public embarrassment .
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In comment 16521024 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16521004 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16520930 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16520923 christian said:
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They investigated the available options and chose not to pursue them. That itself is a vote of confidence.
They chose to go after Maye….did they not?
Takes two to tango on a trade
If you are happy with your QB you don’t try to trade up
If you are happy with your QB then you don’t spend the time and resources they did….did that not happen?
The QB they had a conviction on…they went after
It’s bizarre that you can’t see that their actions illustrate that they want an upgrade
And yet they still have him as QB1.
They chose their QB and it's Daniel Jones.
So….they clearly think the position needs an upgrade
They just weren’t able to get the guy they wanted
If they truly wanted to move on from Jones they would have done more than replace TT with Lock.
If DJ looks like the 2023 version, the only way I don't see BD being fired is by quickly pivoting to Lock. Otherwise yes, all that work they did this off-season will have been useless because BD (and maybe JS) get fired without drafting a QB.
My reaction to drafting Nabers was, and remains, we just flushed the 2024, 25, and maybe even 26 seasons down the drain.
Huh?
So you are saying that they should have signed a free agent QB to replace Jones? Who would that be?…Cousins?
They chose the draft route (as they should)
They had their guy but you can’t force a team to trade with you
If they are so married to Jones…then you don’t try to trade up to number 3 to replace him
Did that not happen?
I'm saying love him or try to replace him is a distinction with no difference since he's still QB1. If their only plan was a low chance play at trading with a team in need of a QB, that should tell you Jones is their QB. If they truly wanted him gone they'd have had multiple options to replace him, not just Maye or bust
I suppose as long as you're enjoying yourselves...
I'm saying love him or try to replace him is a distinction with no difference since he's still QB1. If their only plan was a low chance play at trading with a team in need of a QB, that should tell you Jones is their QB. If they truly wanted him gone they'd have had multiple options to replace him, not just Maye or bust
Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
As much as I am tired of Jones, I am also not a throw the baby out with the bath water and just grab some unknown entity. That frankly is a stupid position. The minute you panic and start grabbing at random QBs, you are finished.
I am sure one day soon they will come across a guy that will supplant Jones(the sooner the better). But a random grab at some 5th round QB like Milton is foolhardy no matter what some blowhard says.
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I'm saying love him or try to replace him is a distinction with no difference since he's still QB1. If their only plan was a low chance play at trading with a team in need of a QB, that should tell you Jones is their QB. If they truly wanted him gone they'd have had multiple options to replace him, not just Maye or bust
Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
As much as I am tired of Jones, I am also not a throw the baby out with the bath water and just grab some unknown entity. That frankly is a stupid position. The minute you panic and start grabbing at random QBs, you are finished.
I am sure one day soon they will come across a guy that will supplant Jones(the sooner the better). But a random grab at some 5th round QB like Milton is foolhardy no matter what some blowhard says.
Hard disagree. I've seen this reasoning used to justify keeping bad players and coaches because the replacement could be worse. Well they could also be better, in fact odds are the devil you don't know will vastly outperform the one you do.
I also don't think JS taking a QB would have been in a panic or a random grab.
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Last year Taylor had a 64.4% completion rate, a 80.7% on target rate, and a 14.5% off target rate.
In 2020 when Lock got his chance he had a 57.3% completion rate, a 68.9% on target rate, and a 22,9% off target rate. All of those were worst among starters in the NFL.
You're going to love Drew Lock.
I think people's confidence in Schoen/Daboll is way too high given their decisions at QB since joining are Taylor (fine), giving Jones a massive contract, and signing Drew Lock.
You only need to get the position right once, fortunately.
this may be wish casting, but last year when tyrod got hurt and devito was thrust into playing we all knew the season was over but in a few places i made comments along the lines of "it would be great to see daboll surprise us and actually field a competitive team the same way minnesota did with dobbs" - the fact that he did that to me is one of the more impressive things he's done here. last year very easily could have turned fromm-y at the end.
getting a career year out of jones is 1 data point, winning games against playoff teams with each of tyrod and devito are 2 more that start to form a trend of at least competence.
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In comment 16521059 christian said:
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Last year Taylor had a 64.4% completion rate, a 80.7% on target rate, and a 14.5% off target rate.
In 2020 when Lock got his chance he had a 57.3% completion rate, a 68.9% on target rate, and a 22,9% off target rate. All of those were worst among starters in the NFL.
You're going to love Drew Lock.
I think people's confidence in Schoen/Daboll is way too high given their decisions at QB since joining are Taylor (fine), giving Jones a massive contract, and signing Drew Lock.
You only need to get the position right once, fortunately.
this may be wish casting, but last year when tyrod got hurt and devito was thrust into playing we all knew the season was over but in a few places i made comments along the lines of "it would be great to see daboll surprise us and actually field a competitive team the same way minnesota did with dobbs" - the fact that he did that to me is one of the more impressive things he's done here. last year very easily could have turned fromm-y at the end.
getting a career year out of jones is 1 data point, winning games against playoff teams with each of tyrod and devito are 2 more that start to form a trend of at least competence.
This is a really good point. I'm a big fan of Daboll and am a little negative on Schoen. Daboll has done great work with talent I think is really mediocre.
Are player selection and player development separate skills, though? Meaning, can Daboll be great at maximizing a given player but not so good at finding the guy with the best celing? I really don't know.
This is a really good point. I'm a big fan of Daboll and am a little negative on Schoen. Daboll has done great work with talent I think is really mediocre.
Are player selection and player development separate skills, though? Meaning, can Daboll be great at maximizing a given player but not so good at finding the guy with the best celing? I really don't know.
thomas dimitroff overlapped with daboll in NE and said anyone who came from NE was very experienced with the player evaluation side of things because of how they operated (said daboll was also known to have a good eye there).
selection and development are interconnected imo, what i think we've seen over time is that picking good players vs super star impact types is kind of luck of the draw. belichek was generally a good drafter and always had more picks than anyone, but he didnt draft a lot of stars. buffalo also hasnt drafted very many stars though they have drafted a lot of good players. so far schoen's track record has been like that.
thats in part why im generally comfortable with trades for proven stars like burns/waller. though obviously you'd hope to get those choices right unlike waller (thats a move i blame on schoen not getting good intel).
One of my favorite examples is the rumor KC wanted to trade up for Paxton Lynch the year before trading up for Mahomes. The failure to get Lynch helped catapult Reid into one of the GOATs. But maybe Lynch would have been a little better under Reid.
Conversely, the Bills traded that Mahomes pick to the Chiefs--only to wisely trade up for Allen a year later.
One of my favorite examples is the rumor KC wanted to trade up for Paxton Lynch the year before trading up for Mahomes. The failure to get Lynch helped catapult Reid into one of the GOATs. But maybe Lynch would have been a little better under Reid.
Conversely, the Bills traded that Mahomes pick to the Chiefs--only to wisely trade up for Allen a year later.
another way to think of it is that a players developmentability (not a real word) is a big part of the scouting process (arguably the biggest).
"good on the board"
"hard worker"
"works like a professional"
"serious about football"
etc.
that was one of belichick's biggest player acquisition strengths.
im ok with schoen's draft record but i think he bought a couple of older lemons in FA with glowinski and waller in offseasons 1/2 where the pro scouting department dropped the ball since those were the 2 big adds of those offseasons.
i also thought letting love go was an obvious mistake and the barkley negotiation was mishandled.
ill be thrilled if a few of his draft picks make me eat those words, but that remains to be seen.
Put the Jones contract aside, I didn't think the handling of Barkley made any sense. We succeeded in 2022 in large because Barkley and Jones fed off each other on the ground. They should have been on similar timelines. And then they should have dumped Barkley at the deadline. The whole thing was a bit silly to me.
I like the Burns trade but you need guys who are elite and punch above their weight cap wise. Burns is a fine contract, but compared to Garrett, Watt, etc. it's kind of mediocre. Plus, I sort of question whether Burns is really in that top tier. We are competing to win championships, not to be 'good'.
The Giants cap allocation and championship window seems disconnected. I continue to be confused at what the plan is here and how that will lead to sustainable contention. Schoen had a bit of whiplash after the 2022 season, which strikes me as someone who lacks conviction in the quality of the roster. The self scouting seemingly continues to be bad here.
I can be persuaded with Schoen, he's done some good things, done some bad. It's not like Gettleman who I was totally done with by this point in his tenure.
one of the things that i think is most bizarre is how many team captains they've let leave without much effort.
love and feliciano walked after year 1 for very reasonable $ at positions where they could have still used the depth. they bizarrely handle the barkley negotiation.
in year 2 they somehow name waller and adoree jackson team captains. also let mckinney and barkley walk.
seems like they've either had some bad judgement on their chosen veteran leaders or bad judgement on who they've let walk, but it's hard to reconcile that they havent made at least 1 mistake or the other.
my most hopeful read from afar is that they got a little high on their own supply after year 1 and made some mistakes of inexperience that they corrected bc this offseason seemed better. the less hopeful outcome is that it wasnt actually better things wont get better people get fired and the cycle begins anew.
Gettleman was a wreck, thrashing around with absolutely no cohesive strategy. I don't view Schoen the same way.
Gettleman was a wreck, thrashing around with absolutely no cohesive strategy. I don't view Schoen the same way.
not to open a pandora's box but im pretty sure the only big difference between gettleman and schoen is daboll and light years better pr savvy.