It's a fascinating topic to me as a fan in general.
During games I'm always rooting for the team to win, no matter the cost or benefit. Before and after the game, I'm more reasoned on what outcome is objectively best.
For instance, I 100% reject the hocus pocus notion that trying hard and winning meaningless games magically carries over to the next year. Or that treating meaningless games as exhibitions solicits a magical curse from the gods.
This year, I can't shake the idea that I would rather Daniel Jones unequivocally show he's not the answer, than tread water. I have no problem acknowledging I would rather the team go 3-14 than 7-10.
I'm perfectly comfortable with hoping players or coaches I don't think will ever be good, just prove it once and for all and move on.
Once the games start, I'll be rooting for Jones every second of every game. But between the games, I admit I have no confidence in him and hope he gets benched.
Anyone else feel that way?
If the operating expectations at QB are for a non-durable, limited passer, with good wheels, and a placeholder for what's next -- I give you Tyrod Taylor ladies and gentlemen.
Gettleman was a wreck, thrashing around with absolutely no cohesive strategy. I don't view Schoen the same way.
not to open a pandora's box but im pretty sure the only big difference between gettleman and schoen is daboll and light years better pr savvy.
And I'd go as far as giving Gettleman the lead in the drafting department.
If the operating expectations at QB are for a non-durable, limited passer, with good wheels, and a placeholder for what's next -- I give you Tyrod Taylor ladies and gentlemen.
jackson is still a free agent so it's not money that's stopping them. feliciano got almost the minimum last year and was on the market for a long time. they signed ashawn for twice as much after he'd signed. they paid campbell and slayton (non captain) as much as love and waller would have covered barkley. letting those guys was choices more than out of budget.
mckinney got paid but he's the one i think they were most correct to pass on paying. he is now the 12th highest paid DB including corners and i dont think his impact is anywhere near that.
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All fair--I'm super high on Daboll, down on Schoen. But not fatal, as you said.
Gettleman was a wreck, thrashing around with absolutely no cohesive strategy. I don't view Schoen the same way.
not to open a pandora's box but im pretty sure the only big difference between gettleman and schoen is daboll and light years better pr savvy.
And I'd go as far as giving Gettleman the lead in the drafting department.
it's close, gettleman had the 2 big hits with dex/thomas, schoen has had fewer misses.
not huge sample sizes but i think overall both would be considered average. schoen needs some year 3+ guys to breakout like dex/thomas, if they do then his track record will look better quickly.
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All fair--I'm super high on Daboll, down on Schoen. But not fatal, as you said.
Gettleman was a wreck, thrashing around with absolutely no cohesive strategy. I don't view Schoen the same way.
not to open a pandora's box but im pretty sure the only big difference between gettleman and schoen is daboll and light years better pr savvy.
I wouldn't go that far. Gettleman did so much dumb shit: drafting Barkley at 2, Solder, Golladay, Toney, etc.
Just a consistent comedy of errors. I don't think Schoen has had consistent stupidity the way Gettleman did.
In a "if resources weren't as constrained" world, I suspect they keep Slayton and Love, they sign Robinson and Keep Felciano, they acquire Burns and keep McKinney, they sign Singletary and keep Barkley.
I don't have access to all my piggies and fingers at the moment, but I imagine the sum of the guarantees of the players they lost + the guarantees on Taylor in 23 + 24 is south of 82.
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In comment 16522395 BrettNYG10 said:
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All fair--I'm super high on Daboll, down on Schoen. But not fatal, as you said.
Gettleman was a wreck, thrashing around with absolutely no cohesive strategy. I don't view Schoen the same way.
not to open a pandora's box but im pretty sure the only big difference between gettleman and schoen is daboll and light years better pr savvy.
I wouldn't go that far. Gettleman did so much dumb shit: drafting Barkley at 2, Solder, Golladay, Toney, etc.
Just a consistent comedy of errors. I don't think Schoen has had consistent stupidity the way Gettleman did.
again not to start a whole thing bc my intent isnt to endorse gettleman's failed era but golladay and waller by the end wont look so different.
solder was more expensive but at least gave them a decent season or two, unlike glowinski. will hernandez looks like chris snee compared to josh ezeudu.
toney was a disaster -- but the trade down got them the 7th pick that could have been garrett wilson or chris olave or kyle hamilton. instead it was neal, who at this point may end up a bigger miss than ereck flowers forget barkley.
so again not looking to whitewash any of DGs failures, more just looking to level set schoen. he's been better but mostly because of daboll getting better play out of players he inherited like lawrence, jones, love, slayton, thomas. not great personnel decisions he made.
In a "if resources weren't as constrained" world, I suspect they keep Slayton and Love, they sign Robinson and Keep Felciano, they acquire Burns and keep McKinney, they sign Singletary and keep Barkley.
I don't have access to all my piggies and fingers at the moment, but I imagine the sum of the guarantees of the players they lost + the guarantees on Taylor in 23 + 24 is south of 82.
last year keeping love would have cost less or = against the cap than campbell, ashawn, slayton. they chose those 3 players over him.
feliciano played for $2m. any team can afford a 2m player at pretty much any time if they are motivated to keep that player.
last year keeping love would have cost less or = against the cap than campbell, ashawn, slayton. they chose those 3 players over him.
feliciano played for $2m. any team can afford a 2m player at pretty much any time if they are motivated to keep that player.
They prioritized 4 players in 5-6 AAV range more than Love. In a less resources contained environment maybe Love is a 5th. They spent the vet minimum on a backup center maybe they spend +1M.
You spend your money on something. This is definitely a benefit of the doubt exercise.
If it wasn't a resource calculus, the alternative portends much worse.
What would have been better for the Giants, DeVito starts week 18 and reestablishes his confidence and standing with the staff in a loss, or current New York Jet Tyrod Taylor leads the Giants to a win?
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last year keeping love would have cost less or = against the cap than campbell, ashawn, slayton. they chose those 3 players over him.
feliciano played for $2m. any team can afford a 2m player at pretty much any time if they are motivated to keep that player.
They prioritized 4 players in 5-6 AAV range more than Love. In a less resources contained environment maybe Love is a 5th. They spent the vet minimum on a backup center maybe they spend +1M.
You spend your money on something. This is definitely a benefit of the doubt exercise.
If it wasn't a resource calculus, the alternative portends much worse.
my problem with schoen (as articulated above) is that he has made some bad choices. i am not absolving him of poor choices just because there was a very modest budget constraint (or giving him the benefit of doubt that the 5th try would have been the charm).
they werent event negotiating with love after FA opened and as far as i know never made him an offer, this wasnt a situation of his price going beyond their budget. he got less than they'd offered him in november, they changed their mind on him for whatever reason.
my argument isn't entirely love either, they have let a lot of guys THEY named captains walk relatively uncontested. at minimum doesn't that mean their choices of captains weren't so hot?
What's concerning is how few of his own hits Schoen has. Okereke, Thibs, Banks, Pinnock? With good signals from Robinson, Hyatt, and McFadden?
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All fair--I'm super high on Daboll, down on Schoen. But not fatal, as you said.
Gettleman was a wreck, thrashing around with absolutely no cohesive strategy. I don't view Schoen the same way.
not to open a pandora's box but im pretty sure the only big difference between gettleman and schoen is daboll and light years better pr savvy.
A clueless take.
Gettleman was an utter moron, whether he fell ass-backwards into Thomas and Dex or not. He had a ridiculously bad free agency record, nonexistent roster building strategies and poor transaction timing, and his lack of keeping up with NFL trends was as bad as any GM in any sport in the past century.
Schoen may fail and not be able to build a winner, but Gettleman had no chance. None. And it was obvious his first couple of months in the saddle with Solder coming on board and wasting that immensely valued draft slot on a RB. Nonsensical contract negotiation processes with Leonard Williams, several overvalued veteran WRs and sticking us with Daniel Jones only dragged out his idiocy.
If Schoen dies on the vine, it isn’t because his general thought-processes about football every year were flawed. It is predominately because he made an F-graded devision on a C-graded QB that you thought was an A-graded contract.
What's concerning is how few of his own hits Schoen has. Okereke, Thibs, Banks, Pinnock? With good signals from Robinson, Hyatt, and McFadden?
i think the first year it was a vote last year when they named 10 the coaches chose.
id add belinger as a hit. they havent cut any of their draft picks yet so they all have a chance. 14/18 have started at least a game. riley, owens, beavers, gray the 4 that havent.
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he and daboll are both centerstage, thats why im hoping for as many good outcomes for both of them as possible. if any change is necessary after this year it's going to come with a lot more breakage than any single bad contract or bad draft pick.