at important positions. The QB problem has been talked about. I made a thread about the lack of experience and proven talent at CB. I think we could be getting torched all year in the secondary. The Oline is still a mess until it proves it isn’t. And the WR group depends immensely on Nabers who is a rookie. We are a Nabers injury from having no one who scares defenses on offense.
I am real skeptical about this team. Anything can happen, and I am hoping for the best, but as recent Giants history and luck has shown, these type of situations often turn into disasters.
But still, I’m more bullish on them here. Going to be a long offseason though with so few acknowledging any progress.
I am not saying that they absolutely didn’t make progress. They could have. But I am tired of “hoping “ they did, and at this point I need to see it to believe it. I, and many fans here, have been disappointed too many times after having offseason optimism. We have what 2 winning seasons since 2012? I am tired of having faith they know how to build a team. I am hoping to be wrong, but I just don’t see it.
where I think they’ve progressed: I think without a doubt they improved the Edge position, and if Nabers is as advertised the WR group is better. Those are the two groups I can unequivocally say they should be better. Just to show you I am game to not be a total pessimist.
But still, I’m more bullish on them here. Going to be a long offseason though with so few acknowledging any progress.
1--- What do you mean by "bullish?" Can you quantify it?
2--- Other teams improve too.
3--- Maybe vs most teams Giants have "progresssed" but they still aren't maybe better thna most. Yet if they "progress" enough to be mediocre but have a limited cieling for next few years, does that make you "bullish" because they won't be awful but just mediocre?
It's pretty simple. I don't expect them to be a bad football team. They are not at a contender level, but I believe they can be in the playoff mix throughout and are capable of getting in as a wild card team.
I think they overachieved in 2022 and they weren't actually as good as the results. At the same time, I feel the exact same way about 2023, only in reverse. Sure, some things need to happen for them to get to where I think they are capable of, but a young team and young coach coming into year three I see that as being just as likely if not more than all the negativity being thrown out there. It's a maturing team that has gone through growing pain and is missing a long term answer at QB, as are many teams throughout the league, but they have some pieces in place to compete. Is this 100% sure outcome? Of course not. But I see as much reason to have this POV as I do all the negativity being thrown out there. This group is 1-1 in terms of good seasons to bad, not a decade of futility. I'm not going to lump all the DG failures onto them --that staff and personnel are gone.
Remember, the only team in the NFC getting worse playoff odds
Well, it wasn't a bad football team two year's ago, and before that was a complete different management team and roster. So you are talking one good year and one bad year. I'm not sure why every other bad team outside of Carolina would be given the benefit except NYG, but whatever. If people want to be miserable about everything about their team... have at it. Last I saw them play they lost a one point game to the Rams and beat Philly handedly. You would honestly think the week 1 results were how they finished. Skepticism is perfectly fine --yet it's the dismissiveness that's not rational.
It's pretty simple. I don't expect them to be a bad football team. They are not at a contender level, but I believe they can be in the playoff mix throughout and are capable of getting in as a wild card team.
I think they overachieved in 2022 and they weren't actually as good as the results. At the same time, I feel the exact same way about 2023, only in reverse. Sure, some things need to happen for them to get to where I think they are capable of, but a young team and young coach coming into year three I see that as being just as likely if not more than all the negativity being thrown out there. It's a maturing team that has gone through growing pain and is missing a long term answer at QB, as are many teams throughout the league, but they have some pieces in place to compete. Is this 100% sure outcome? Of course not. But I see as much reason to have this POV as I do all the negativity being thrown out there. This group is 1-1 in terms of good seasons to bad, not a decade of futility. I'm not going to lump all the DG failures onto them --that staff and personnel are gone.
IMO manye here also acknowledge Giants are overall better but quite a few (me included) are in fear of long-term mediocrity if the Qb will only be average at best while being an enormous injury risk.
There’s at best a mediocre QB. The OL right now is probably mediocre And the rb and the TE are mediocre to subpar. So, the only "high plus" is the WR Nabers. The 2nd wr is okay.
So, the defense has to be very strong to make up for this. Which the Defense should be good but certainly not "great/.."
Thus when you say you are bullish as though looking at this as a stock - imo I believe many see this as short term growth with limited long term opportunity to beyond to being anything more than average.
SO when you say others aren't acknowledging any progress it's because there is also a view that right now until a great Defense is established, or a great OL, or a QB- they don't look as this as bullish as you do.
So while you refer to Giants moves as progress, right now I believe most view this as a stock that will continually be average at best with a ticking-time bomb QB at any momemnt could be it. As a result, the progress you refer is not that at all. This isn't bullish imo.
I am real skeptical about this team. Anything can happen, and I am hoping for the best, but as recent Giants history and luck has shown, these type of situations often turn into disasters.
I am not saying that they absolutely didn’t make progress. They could have. But I am tired of “hoping “ they did, and at this point I need to see it to believe it. I, and many fans here, have been disappointed too many times after having offseason optimism. We have what 2 winning seasons since 2012? I am tired of having faith they know how to build a team. I am hoping to be wrong, but I just don’t see it.
1--- What do you mean by "bullish?" Can you quantify it?
2--- Other teams improve too.
3--- Maybe vs most teams Giants have "progresssed" but they still aren't maybe better thna most. Yet if they "progress" enough to be mediocre but have a limited cieling for next few years, does that make you "bullish" because they won't be awful but just mediocre?
I think they overachieved in 2022 and they weren't actually as good as the results. At the same time, I feel the exact same way about 2023, only in reverse. Sure, some things need to happen for them to get to where I think they are capable of, but a young team and young coach coming into year three I see that as being just as likely if not more than all the negativity being thrown out there. It's a maturing team that has gone through growing pain and is missing a long term answer at QB, as are many teams throughout the league, but they have some pieces in place to compete. Is this 100% sure outcome? Of course not. But I see as much reason to have this POV as I do all the negativity being thrown out there. This group is 1-1 in terms of good seasons to bad, not a decade of futility. I'm not going to lump all the DG failures onto them --that staff and personnel are gone.
I think they overachieved in 2022 and they weren't actually as good as the results. At the same time, I feel the exact same way about 2023, only in reverse. Sure, some things need to happen for them to get to where I think they are capable of, but a young team and young coach coming into year three I see that as being just as likely if not more than all the negativity being thrown out there. It's a maturing team that has gone through growing pain and is missing a long term answer at QB, as are many teams throughout the league, but they have some pieces in place to compete. Is this 100% sure outcome? Of course not. But I see as much reason to have this POV as I do all the negativity being thrown out there. This group is 1-1 in terms of good seasons to bad, not a decade of futility. I'm not going to lump all the DG failures onto them --that staff and personnel are gone.
IMO manye here also acknowledge Giants are overall better but quite a few (me included) are in fear of long-term mediocrity if the Qb will only be average at best while being an enormous injury risk.
There’s at best a mediocre QB. The OL right now is probably mediocre And the rb and the TE are mediocre to subpar. So, the only "high plus" is the WR Nabers. The 2nd wr is okay.
So, the defense has to be very strong to make up for this. Which the Defense should be good but certainly not "great/.."
Thus when you say you are bullish as though looking at this as a stock - imo I believe many see this as short term growth with limited long term opportunity to beyond to being anything more than average.
SO when you say others aren't acknowledging any progress it's because there is also a view that right now until a great Defense is established, or a great OL, or a QB- they don't look as this as bullish as you do.
So while you refer to Giants moves as progress, right now I believe most view this as a stock that will continually be average at best with a ticking-time bomb QB at any momemnt could be it. As a result, the progress you refer is not that at all. This isn't bullish imo.