So I am concerned about how the majority of our team seems to be made out of 100% grade A+ porcelain.
However, that being said, I think we are in great position to contend for a championship next year. I would not engage in any of these wild trade theories we have heard.
Next year I see our roster as largely set.
We have Brunson at the 1 and Divo at the 2. I am largely on the fence with OG, but I would resign him and start him at the 3. Then we have the walking bad attitude/All pro Randle at the 4.
So here is where the question marks begin. I would do everything possible to resign Hartenstein, but I'm going to just assume we fail for the sake of preparing for the worst case scenario. So, the Knicks have two first round picks, and a second.
Now, I know nothing about NBA free agency, but people around here keep insisting expiring contracts have value. I'm not convinced by what I have seen out of the Knicks, but if so, then take advantage of the expiring contract of Bogs and get a backup at either PG, SF, C or finally PF. Then use your first 1st round pick on whichever position you did not address yet starting at backup SF, then C, then PG. Use your second first round pick on a backup PG, or a C, or a SF. Then you have your second round pick to use on a C or a PF. I don't know. Maybe I am overly exuberant, but I think our future is ROSES!
Oh, and if the fans here are full of it and Bogs expiring contract has no value, then I would resign him to a reasonable contract and then instead of looking for a backup SF in the draft, I would look for a backup SG who would prove to be an upgrade over Miles McBride.
Tap into your memories. Think back to when Mitch was playing even on one leg. Think back. The center position here literally never had an off night. They were never outplayed. They outplayed any and all comers.
If you can get Embid>? (you can't so forget it) Sure i'd break up this center tandem.
The only move to make is maybe upgrading the 2G spot but I think Divo and Deuce are fine. Maybe upgrade the backup PG spot. Sure. I am all for it. Maybe add another scoring big. Both moves can be had.
Regarding Randle, I'm open either way, depends what they can get for him.
On Ihart - I like him, but spending big on the center position is not a great allocation of funds, which is why I mentioned Edey.
Randle has not had a lot of injuries and been an ironman.
You can only give Hartenstein 16 million per so that the line in the sand if he takes it being him back at worst he is a trade chip down the road.
DDV is just starting to show what he is capable and this year was a big jump for him.
Hart, McBride, Mitch/IHart and Bojan is a strong bench.
Randle is a tough decision which I don't think they make until after next season, I think they would love to lock up Brunson but I can't see him leaving that much money on the table. OG is coming back and I think game 7 showed where he wanted to be.
I don't want to add a star that is not a cultural fit for this team, look at Phoenix and The Clippers.
It's crazy but Lebron would be a great fit on this team as an aging star wanting one more ring and has shown to be okay letting Brunson be Brunson and is a hard worker (I know this is not a popular opinion)
You don't think Randle would be moved for Spida?
If the Knicks feel they won't be able to match whatever Hartenstein gets on the open market, and have something lined up that would bring in a guy like Bridges or Caruso, do you move Randle for Jarrett Allen?
Randle would seem to be a perfect fit for Cleveland in a lineup with Mobley, Randle, Okoro, Strus, Garland. He gives them rebounding and scoring that you would ideally look for in a 4 next to Mobley.
For the Knicks, Allen gives you all the hustle, rebounding, defensive prowess that we loved in Hartenstein, but is also more of a threat offensively. I know he's not the "stretch 5" that some are hoping for, but there really aren't a lot of them out there.
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And I don’t see any of the three getting moved
You don't think Randle would be moved for Spida?
I don’t think their interest is as high in him as it was and I don’t think Cleveland moves him
Running it back with the same group next year is not a bad thing, as long as they improve on the margins. But if they go back with the identical roster and do nothing on the margins, that would worry me.
Again, I go back to Boston and their offseason last year. Everyone shit on them for moving Smart and destroying their culture, well it turned out to be shrewd. The Knicks are in win now mode, everything should be about improving the team year in and year out. That means only swinging for the fences if an ideal situation opens up (i.e. Giannis, Booker, etc.) otherwise find guys that provide toughness and depth on the bench.
If the Knicks feel they won't be able to match whatever Hartenstein gets on the open market, and have something lined up that would bring in a guy like Bridges or Caruso, do you move Randle for Jarrett Allen?
Randle would seem to be a perfect fit for Cleveland in a lineup with Mobley, Randle, Okoro, Strus, Garland. He gives them rebounding and scoring that you would ideally look for in a 4 next to Mobley.
For the Knicks, Allen gives you all the hustle, rebounding, defensive prowess that we loved in Hartenstein, but is also more of a threat offensively. I know he's not the "stretch 5" that some are hoping for, but there really aren't a lot of them out there.
Jarrett Allen isn’t a bad idea at all and his contract isn’t onerous. However, it still might be too rich for the Knicks. And for Julius Randle? I can’t see that happening under any circumstances barring some other massive move.
I definitely think that the Cavs will consider moving off of him considering how well Mobley played offensively at the 5 in the postseason.
You’d mentioned the Knicks made an offer at the deadline for Mikal. Any idea what it was? Curious if that’s something they’d circle back to now.
There is a prevailing thought that the nets wouldn’t deal with the Knicks, but they did trade Harden to the sixers, is that really so much better?
A year from now, the Knicks will become more expensive. Financially, and with the current collective bargaining agreement, this summer is the time for a star trade.
Don't want to link any more than that.
To me, the players most likely to be traded are Bogey (obviously), Mitch and then Randle if it gets you a BIG name. But if not, that's ~36 million in salary to trade for a star player.
AJR, any idea how big the contract for OG's going to be? I am hoping it's not north of $40 mil a year, but with all these teams out there with cap space, I'm guessing we'd at least have to match what a team like Philly would offer him.
To me, the players most likely to be traded are Bogey (obviously), Mitch and then Randle if it gets you a BIG name. But if not, that's ~36 million in salary to trade for a star player.
AJR, any idea how big the contract for OG's going to be? I am hoping it's not north of $40 mil a year, but with all these teams out there with cap space, I'm guessing we'd at least have to match what a team like Philly would offer him.
I think it ends up somewhere around 5/185
I think George will be a name that Knicks get heavily involved in, i think Clippers iwll break up George and Kawhi, dont think they want to pay both and then pay Harden as well, i expect him to opt in and then pick where he wants to go via trade
Same thing with Lebron, if he doesnt like how the offseason is going or shaping up, he will opt in and then pick where he wants to go via trade..
I think Butler gets traded, i think he would be a really good fit basketball wise but his ego and how he wants to take over organizations i dont think will be a good fit..
Bridges i expect to quietly ask out, wouldnt be shocked if the Nova 3 already had a conversation with him about forcing his way to the Knicks..
Towns i expect rumors whether they win a ship or not..
Trae Young will be traded obviously not a fit for the Knicks but i expect them to start blowing it up
Booker makes a ton of sense, but not sure we have what it takes to get him.
Giannis and Booker would be the biggest names that I'd have the most interest in, but I gather it's highly unlikely to happen. As far as the rest? LeBron, no, George no, Butler no.
I'd love to add Bridges to get him with the rest of his college guys. Not sure what a potential Bridges deal would look like or if Brooklyn would even entertain trade offers from us.
Giannis and Booker would be the biggest names that I'd have the most interest in, but I gather it's highly unlikely to happen. As far as the rest? LeBron, no, George no, Butler no.
I'd love to add Bridges to get him with the rest of his college guys. Not sure what a potential Bridges deal would look like or if Brooklyn would even entertain trade offers from us.
Lebron and George would both be absolute perfect fits with this team and Jalen Brunson..
Nope but Phoenix and LAC have problems the Knicks even the worst Knick capped out teams didn’t have.
These are the two I want too.
You are going to be in the 2nd apron, which makes it extremely difficult to trade for a big high priced guy..
I expect a big trade if it happens to happen at the draft or days leading up to free agency because once you re-sign OG and Ihart, you are going to be into the second apron
Giddey to Bulls
Caruso to Knicks
Not picking on you directly but this infuriates me. I don't want Thibs teaching anyone to defend the pick and roll because the way he defends the pick and roll when it involves the center flat out sucks. At first I thought it was just a bad habit of Mitch but iHart, Simms and precious does it too so it's the scheme. When the opposing center sets the pick our center starts drifting backwards half way between the ball handler and the opposing center trying to give our player that got picked a chance to recover. He wont challenge the ball handler until he is right at the basket. Stuck in no man's land really defending neither guy.
The ball handler has an open lane to step up and take an uncontested midrange pull up often times drawing a foul because our picked player is running right behind him full speed trying to recover. Or if the ball handler drives close enough to where our center does finally challenge him then it's an easy pass to the opposing cutting center fir a dunk/layup. If our help defender is alert enough to cut off the cutting center then it's an easy pass out to corner or elbow where the help defenders man is wide open for a 3.
One of those 4 results happens almost every single time which is why most opponents run pick and roll heavily against us and Thibs refuses to change it up. Over and over again.
Giddey to Bulls
Caruso to Knicks
I actually thought about Mitch as a fit in OKC this morning too, but didn't think there would be anything they have to offer that would move the needle (other than draft picks). Third team solves that.
I still like something like this:
Randle + picks from NYK/Brooklyn to Cleveland
Donovan Mitchell to Brooklyn
Jarrett Allen + Bridges to the Knicks
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...I know this will be unpopular, but I would consider trading up in the draft to get into Zach Edey territory. He could be effective on this team, at the combine, he was draining 3's and he is an excellent rim protector. Thibs would have to teach him how to defend the pick n roll. He would be a nice compliement to Mitch. I think IHart priced himself out and is too expensive anwyays.
Not picking on you directly but this infuriates me. I don't want Thibs teaching anyone to defend the pick and roll because the way he defends the pick and roll when it involves the center flat out sucks. At first I thought it was just a bad habit of Mitch but iHart, Simms and precious does it too so it's the scheme. When the opposing center sets the pick our center starts drifting backwards half way between the ball handler and the opposing center trying to give our player that got picked a chance to recover. He wont challenge the ball handler until he is right at the basket. Stuck in no man's land really defending neither guy.
The ball handler has an open lane to step up and take an uncontested midrange pull up often times drawing a foul because our picked player is running right behind him full speed trying to recover. Or if the ball handler drives close enough to where our center does finally challenge him then it's an easy pass to the opposing cutting center fir a dunk/layup. If our help defender is alert enough to cut off the cutting center then it's an easy pass out to corner or elbow where the help defenders man is wide open for a 3.
One of those 4 results happens almost every single time which is why most opponents run pick and roll heavily against us and Thibs refuses to change it up. Over and over again.
Thibs plays drop coverage with his center, the on man defender goes over the screen to not allow the ball handler to just pull a wide open 3..
The two help defenders pinch in if the center has to slid over to help on the roll man..
If the ball gets kicked to the corner those wing defenders then habe to shoot out to the corner..
The Knicks are one of the best defensive teams in the NBA, they wouldnt be that if they couldnt defend the pick and roll
Alright, moving on…..
If you can’t swing a trade for Booker or Bridges, you have to bring the same cast back and make some snall additions. It will be easier to attract vets now, Thibs prefer them anyway.
that's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that they went 4-1 against us after OG's injury - with 3 of the wins being easy for them.
He needs to be buried after his horrendous game 7 performance
That being said, they always rank top third in overall defense, so Thibs does know how to coach defense. I just wish he'd be a little less stubborn sometimes.
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is that it basically buries Deuce.
He needs to be buried after his horrendous game 7 performance
He's young and he'll learn from it but we had a chance to cut it to 3 in the third on a wide open three pointer from Deuce that he bricked. Turned into the fast break that I believe Brunson broke his hand on.....just brutal
Thibs plays drop coverage with his center, the on man defender goes over the screen to not allow the ball handler to just pull a wide open 3..
The two help defenders pinch in if the center has to slid over to help on the roll man..
If the ball gets kicked to the corner those wing defenders then habe to shoot out to the corner..
The Knicks are one of the best defensive teams in the NBA, they wouldnt be that if they couldnt defend the pick and roll
Yes you described it just like I said. And against most teams it works which is why over the regular season our defensive numbers are great. But when you come up against a team with 1) a speedy guard running the pick and roll and 2) 3 point shooters especially with the big that doesn't set the pick it flat out gets exposed. Your defenders can never catch up and there will always be an open 3. You only hope that it gets to a big who isn't a shooter.
You could see it was a point of emphasis for the pacers to start game 7. Overall I don't like the drop coverage scheme but no denying it can be effective. The problem is not adjusting when you see the other team has figured it out. Atlanta did the same in our playoff game against them and Miami tried to do it last year but their shooters were cold so it wasn't as effective
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Thibs plays drop coverage with his center, the on man defender goes over the screen to not allow the ball handler to just pull a wide open 3..
The two help defenders pinch in if the center has to slid over to help on the roll man..
If the ball gets kicked to the corner those wing defenders then habe to shoot out to the corner..
The Knicks are one of the best defensive teams in the NBA, they wouldnt be that if they couldnt defend the pick and roll
Yes you described it just like I said. And against most teams it works which is why over the regular season our defensive numbers are great. But when you come up against a team with 1) a speedy guard running the pick and roll and 2) 3 point shooters especially with the big that doesn't set the pick it flat out gets exposed. Your defenders can never catch up and there will always be an open 3. You only hope that it gets to a big who isn't a shooter.
You could see it was a point of emphasis for the pacers to start game 7. Overall I don't like the drop coverage scheme but no denying it can be effective. The problem is not adjusting when you see the other team has figured it out. Atlanta did the same in our playoff game against them and Miami tried to do it last year but their shooters were cold so it wasn't as effective
They also were missing their best defender, with OG in help, the big could play up more and made it an easier switch and help scheme..
With OG out, they had to help on Siakim and it made it tougher to get out on shooters..
Some times its not scheme, its the plahers left
Late first maybe and a 9 million match but no quality assets for him.
IHart can be had for 15? OG 35?
Late first maybe and a 9 million match but no quality assets for him.
I question how much of an asset Mitch really is. There's very little scarcity at his position around the league, he's always hurt, and he's seemingly gotten worse offensively as he's gotten older. But putting all that aside, we may have tax/apron concerns and unloading Mitch for a cheaper player could help alleviate them.
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But you are not trading Mitch for Caruso, he is on an expiring 9 million dollar contract at 30 years old . Mitch is way to steep a price.
Late first maybe and a 9 million match but no quality assets for him.
I question how much of an asset Mitch really is. There's very little scarcity at his position around the league, he's always hurt, and he's seemingly gotten worse offensively as he's gotten older. But putting all that aside, we may have tax/apron concerns and unloading Mitch for a cheaper player could help alleviate them.
I agree the injuries is a big deal but he has proven to be one of the best rim protectors/rebounders in the league and in Thibs system that's makes everything go. When he was rolling before the injury he was setting the defense and on pace to be in the defensive player of the year conversation.
Not sure you move him for a possible 30 yr old back up rental.
Mitch could be valuable in a bigger deal .
If a player makes top ten in DPOY voting in a given year, Basketball Reference indicates that fact on the player's overview page.
Mitch has never made the top ten for DPOY in his career and, as of the time of his injury, his blocked shots per game average of 1.3 was lower than any previous season.
He won't be traded because stress fractures in his ankle and a visible weight issue leave him with no trade value.
Agreed. Underrated post.