I just don’t get how people still don’t understand it. No one-as far as I know-is rooting for Jones to fail. I hope he goes out this fall & lights it up. I just don’t expect it.
It really is that simple.
RE: RE: RE: Jones is not an elite QB. Picking him at 6
was dumb on many levels, not the least of which is that it raised expectations to a point that he's not capable of living up to. But, in football the QB gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don't. Add in that Jones has had an awful OL every year and a really bad receiving corps every year, which made it nearly impossible for him to succeed, and it's clear that his lack of success isn't all on him. He's not a terrible player. He could have a very good year this year. He's not the long-term answer for the NYG at QB, they can and should look for a better QB. But the amount of derision being heaped on him is over the top; and Banks and Papa were right about that.
THIS ^^^^ Reading BBI is a discouraging pursuit lately. Yes the team has been bad, but the vitriol here is way beyond any semblance of constructive criticism.
Jones is a very bad QB. Please refer to his 2023 where he put up last in the league QB starter stats. Sorry, good QBs don't get outplayed by Tommy DeVito.
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones is not an elite QB. Picking him at 6
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
I really haven't seen much unhinged vitriol of the sort you are describing. It's possible I am not seeing it or recognizing it. I don't know. Look, for many people life is not easy. And for some, football is an escape, and for a subset they don't want to hear people disparage their favorite players, people they invested a lot of time and emotion into. I get it. And for others, they don't want to see their favorite team waste time and season after season with excuses and inadequate players. I understand both sides even though I am in the latter camp.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones is not an elite QB. Picking him at 6
was dumb on many levels, not the least of which is that it raised expectations to a point that he's not capable of living up to. But, in football the QB gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don't. Add in that Jones has had an awful OL every year and a really bad receiving corps every year, which made it nearly impossible for him to succeed, and it's clear that his lack of success isn't all on him. He's not a terrible player. He could have a very good year this year. He's not the long-term answer for the NYG at QB, they can and should look for a better QB. But the amount of derision being heaped on him is over the top; and Banks and Papa were right about that.
THIS ^^^^ Reading BBI is a discouraging pursuit lately. Yes the team has been bad, but the vitriol here is way beyond any semblance of constructive criticism.
Jones is a very bad QB. Please refer to his 2023 where he put up last in the league QB starter stats. Sorry, good QBs don't get outplayed by Tommy DeVito.
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
Just stop. At what point do you realize that saying “they genuinely hate him” sounds like you’re an overly sensitive child? How many times do people have to say NOBODY HATES DANIEL JONES? Jeezus, man. Nobody on this site has even met the guy. But from all accounts he’s a swell guy that you’d like your daughter to date. And THAT is what guys like yourself use to drive your desire to pretend that he’s something that he’s not as a QB. Every single opinion of Daniel Jones on this site is 100% related to how he plays the QB position. Grow up and stop claiming everyone hates Daniel Jones. You sound stupid
I just don’t get how people still don’t understand it. No one-as far as I know-is rooting for Jones to fail. I hope he goes out this fall & lights it up. I just don’t expect it.
It really is that simple.
Some people cannot separate analysis from rooting. Or let their rooting heavily color their analysis (homers).
I'm looking forward to this season less than any I can remember. I can't wait for this to be put to bed either way. I have pretty strong feelings about which way that will turn out, but I guess we'll see.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones is not an elite QB. Picking him at 6
was dumb on many levels, not the least of which is that it raised expectations to a point that he's not capable of living up to. But, in football the QB gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don't. Add in that Jones has had an awful OL every year and a really bad receiving corps every year, which made it nearly impossible for him to succeed, and it's clear that his lack of success isn't all on him. He's not a terrible player. He could have a very good year this year. He's not the long-term answer for the NYG at QB, they can and should look for a better QB. But the amount of derision being heaped on him is over the top; and Banks and Papa were right about that.
THIS ^^^^ Reading BBI is a discouraging pursuit lately. Yes the team has been bad, but the vitriol here is way beyond any semblance of constructive criticism.
Jones is a very bad QB. Please refer to his 2023 where he put up last in the league QB starter stats. Sorry, good QBs don't get outplayed by Tommy DeVito.
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
Just stop. At what point do you realize that saying “they genuinely hate him” sounds like you’re an overly sensitive child? How many times do people have to say NOBODY HATES DANIEL JONES? Jeezus, man. Nobody on this site has even met the guy. But from all accounts he’s a swell guy that you’d like your daughter to date. And THAT is what guys like yourself use to drive your desire to pretend that he’s something that he’s not as a QB. Every single opinion of Daniel Jones on this site is 100% related to how he plays the QB position. Grow up and stop claiming everyone hates Daniel Jones. You sound stupid
Ok, I pretend he's something that he's not? Show me where I praised or defended his play, not just on this thread or anywhere. And yes, of course it's all related to how he plays the QB position, but some here seem to hate him for the way he plays QB instead of just criticizing the play. And in no case or no way did I say that EVERYONE hates him. Oh, and I'm stupid? Grow up.
I just don’t get how people still don’t understand it. No one-as far as I know-is rooting for Jones to fail. I hope he goes out this fall & lights it up. I just don’t expect it.
It really is that simple.
It's fine to think this. What's the point of bothering anymore for you or anyone to keep saying it before you see it? There are half a dozen posts right above this one of yours in which people seem to believe the 2024 season is over already and Jones had failed. They virtually state it as a fact because the way they read his stats (selectively) tells them that. They can claim to be fans but I suspect that fans of other teams might be puzzled to be exposed to this sort of rationalization.
because both guys work for the Giants. They have taken the place of Pat Hanlon at this point.
John Mara and the Giants are selling hope and optimism to the fans every off season. It does not end with the marketing department. The people who have a public voice are given scripts.
Again, I don’t think this stuff is complicated: a lot of people don’t think he’s a good QB & thus have little enthusiasm for this coming season because we have a strong feeling on how it’s going to play out.
And a lot of people are sick of wishing and hoping that he is suddenly going to be something he’s never shown to be.
People are just sick and tired of this organization’s incompetence. And then we have to hear from people like Banks-whose Twitter account I checked out earlier and hey Carl…what an embarrassment-tell us we are ‘goofy’ for questioning WTF is going on.
In comment 16522483 BronxBob said:
[quote] In comment 16522455 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I just don’t get how people still don’t understand it. No one-as far as I know-is rooting for Jones to fail. I hope he goes out this fall & lights it up. I just don’t expect it.
It really is that simple.
It's fine to think this. What's the point of bothering anymore for you or anyone to keep saying it before you see it? There are half a dozen posts right above this one of yours in which people seem to believe the 2024 season is over already and Jones had failed. They virtually state it as a fact because the way they read his stats (selectively) tells them that. They can claim to be fans but I suspect that fans of other teams might be puzzled to be exposed to this sort of rationalization. [/quote
Ask fans of other teams about Daniel Jones and tell them you think he's good if you want to see puzzlement.
I hope he's the best QB in the league next year. I'm not holding my breath.
I am finally listening to this podcast. I am a little over ten minutes in. So far, unless you are rooting for Daniel Jones to fail, then you are not the ones being addressed. If a fan is rooting for one of their own players to fail then the content so far seems appropriate. For the record, I absolutely think there are fans everywhere of all different teams that actively root against players on their teams they don't like for whatever reason.
I am finally listening to this podcast. I am a little over ten minutes in. So far, unless you are rooting for Daniel Jones to fail, then you are not the ones being addressed. If a fan is rooting for one of their own players to fail then the content so far seems appropriate. For the record, I absolutely think there are fans everywhere of all different teams that actively root against players on their teams they don't like for whatever reason.
I agree that this phenomenon does occur. However, on BBI, I think the overwhelming majority of Jones critics want him to succeed. I know I do.
I am finally listening to this podcast. I am a little over ten minutes in. So far, unless you are rooting for Daniel Jones to fail, then you are not the ones being addressed. If a fan is rooting for one of their own players to fail then the content so far seems appropriate. For the record, I absolutely think there are fans everywhere of all different teams that actively root against players on their teams they don't like for whatever reason.
A narcissist would cheer for failure if that supported the view they have. There are plenty of them out there.
If we see a car get hit by a train off a cliff and into a volcano we're all going to be cheering for everyone inside to be ok. It doesn't make you negative or a narcissist to think that they might not be.
I'm rooting for Eric Gray to be twenty times better than Barry Sanders. What kind of narcissist must you be to think that can't happen?!
To me, success for a 6th year, $46M QB is playing like top 10 QB. Not limited offense. Not game managing. Putting up points and yards by making real NFL throws all over the field. If Jones plays like a Joe Burrow or a Dak Prescott, that is a success.
Unfortunately, I suspect the Giants and many fans have a much lower bar. I think if Jones does his 200 yards, 1 TD, less than 1 INT per game with his very limited set of throws and the Giants win 7, 8, or 9 games - then that will be viewed as success. And he will keep the job as long as he does it.
I do not want that. Scenario A - Jones is a legit good NFL QB is good. I would certainly have to eat some crow if that happened.
But I would rather see Scenario C - Jones falls flat on his face, than Scenario B - Jones is an adequate game manager. Because I think Scenario give the Giants a chance to be really good at some point. Scenario B gives us a Saints/Raiders type of existence for the next few years. I do not want that.
If we see a car get hit by a train off a cliff and into a volcano we're all going to be cheering for everyone inside to be ok. It doesn't make you negative or a narcissist to think that they might not be.
I'm rooting for Eric Gray to be twenty times better than Barry Sanders. What kind of narcissist must you be to think that can't happen?!
I wasn't calling you a narcissist. There are definitely people that rather see Jones fail then their opinions be proven wrong though.
My point was that Papa and Banks did not seem to be talking about all Giants fans or even most Giants fans. Carl Banks talked about a 'sector' of fans that seemingly want Jones to fail, so unless you want that, I don't think they were talking about you.
I meant that I don't agree that no one wants Jones to fail. Anyway, Papa and Banks were taking a lot of heat on this thread and I don't think they were addressing most Giants fans.
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Interesting that you bring up Eli. I believe it has been shown that Eli really wasn't in decline in his later years. Indeed, in 2018, his last as a full-time starter he completed 66% of his passes (best of his career) for 4,300 yards and 21 TDs versus 11 picks with a 92.4 QB rating. Both the yards and ratings were the 4th best of his career. What makes it interesting is that Eli's best years were 2011 when he had Nicks and Cruz both operating on all cylinders and 2014-15 when he had Odell at full speed.
And it was not like there were 'some' fans that were willing to excuse Eli for the losing it was actually just about every fan who for a decade screamed 'the Giants ruined the back end of his career because of the horrible OL!' Interesting that so same fans now absolutely refuse to concede in any way or shape that playing behind what was in fact an historically bad OL last year might have crimped Jones' play. Just sayin'! (And please don't come back with the old 'he was outplayed by Danny DeVito because the latter did have a significantly different and better OL to work with (not to mention a better receiving corps.)
If you're interested in the Giants becoming a true contender at some point, rooting for Jones to fail fast rather than reach his ceiling of low-level NFL starter makes sense.
This is why my criticism isn't about Jones, but about Mara. The Giants aren't objective actors - they want to be proven right on Jones and are looking for any excuse to reward even a mediocre performance (like they did in 2022).
The Giants are very poorly run, and as fans we are stuck hoping that things outside their control save them from their own ineptitude.
Well, I think that probably solves it. They should bring back Manning.
Missed the point Christian. Or get some better receivers because Eli wasn't necessarily all that good when he didn't have them. Also remember that in his last two years plus with this team the Giants were 9-26! But yes eff Jones for that awful record his first 2-3 years.
I'd much rather Jones fail than show just enough to keep stretching out the indecision.
I have zero problem saying that and defending that view as a fan.
I think a strong outcome is this regime having the courage to move off of Jones after a season which showed progress. A gritty 8-9 season where the roster looks good but the QB shows limitations.
Schoen cuts Jones and they are in the QB market in 2025 with a roster which is viewed much better than it is today.
I don't disagree with your premise in your bad outcomes thread. But, I really like Daboll. I think there is much more potential that the Giants have a strong HC rather than a strong QB. I also think finding viable head coaches in this league is very hard.
Not every decision Schoen & Daboll have made has been poor, they've had misses, but I don't think they are incompetent. I believe the QB decision is complex and goes beyond Schoen & Daboll although they share their piece of blame.
I totally understand the skepticism that NYG would move off Jones off an 8-9 season, but the contract *does* allow for it. Going 8-9 and putting Kirk Cousins in this offense with Daboll & the WR group. That is the best outcome imo over a full reset.
this is the answer to Bob Papa and Carl Banks and anyone who tells any Giant fan they're "a bad fan" or "goofy" because they don't want to see another season of Daniel Jones as the Giants unchallenged QB1.
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Go Terps : 3:29 pm : link : reply
If you're interested in the Giants becoming a true contender at some point, rooting for Jones to fail fast rather than reach his ceiling of low-level NFL starter makes sense.
This is why my criticism isn't about Jones, but about Mara. The Giants aren't objective actors - they want to be proven right on Jones and are looking for any excuse to reward even a mediocre performance (like they did in 2022).
The Giants are very poorly run, and as fans we are stuck hoping that things outside their control save them from their own ineptitude.
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Interesting that you bring up Eli. I believe it has been shown that Eli really wasn't in decline in his later years. Indeed, in 2018, his last as a full-time starter he completed 66% of his passes (best of his career) for 4,300 yards and 21 TDs versus 11 picks with a 92.4 QB rating. Both the yards and ratings were the 4th best of his career. What makes it interesting is that Eli's best years were 2011 when he had Nicks and Cruz both operating on all cylinders and 2014-15 when he had Odell at full speed.
And it was not like there were 'some' fans that were willing to excuse Eli for the losing it was actually just about every fan who for a decade screamed 'the Giants ruined the back end of his career because of the horrible OL!' Interesting that so same fans now absolutely refuse to concede in any way or shape that playing behind what was in fact an historically bad OL last year might have crimped Jones' play. Just sayin'! (And please don't come back with the old 'he was outplayed by Danny DeVito because the latter did have a significantly different and better OL to work with (not to mention a better receiving corps.)
It actually isn't that interesting.
Eli was in noticeable decline as the 2016 season went along, and began to lose all patience of sitting in the pocket and taking hits in the couple of seasons that followed. He wasn't lifting up that team any longer with his arm and comeback ability from his earlier days. Watch the games.
I can't believe I'm saying this again. I won't believe Jones isn't their plan until he's off the roster.
Assuming he doesn't blow out his ACL again, on March 4th, 2025 they will have to decide if Jones is worth 1/30M. That's cap adjusted pretty close to what his 5th year option was.
is pretty simple. You're fans who don't know a thing about football, shut up and drink the Mara-aid because you're hurting the owners feelings and his pet player's feelings.
I can't believe I'm saying this again. I won't believe Jones isn't their plan until he's off the roster.
Assuming he doesn't blow out his ACL again, on March 4th, 2025 they will have to decide if Jones is worth 1/30M. That's cap adjusted pretty close to what his 5th year option was.
They're not getting ride of Jones unless stinks.
It is incredible that this is still a thing with the Giants. I can't think of a comparable situation.
is pretty simple. You're fans who don't know a thing about football, shut up and drink the Mara-aid because you're hurting the owners feelings and his pet player's feelings.
Banks specifically said a 'sector' of fans seemingly that want Jones to fail.
RE: RE: RE: And there are people who care more about Jones
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
he's wrong. No there is not. There is a very large percentage of Giants fans who want him replaced. That's accurate. He's already failed. That's the issue.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And there are people who care more about Jones
Eli was in noticeable decline as the 2016 season went along.
The Giants were 9-2 down the stretch in 2016 on the way to the playoffs and if you could see that Eli was in noticeable decline you should be working in the NFL because nobody else saw it and it only became part of the BBI narrative later.
he's wrong. No there is not. There is a very large percentage of Giants fans who want him replaced. That's accurate. He's already failed. That's the issue.
He certainly could be wrong. But to change what he said seems a bit disingenuous. I don't think Banks and Papa are lumping all Giants fans that want Jones replaced as that 'sector' of fans.
And we have had a lot of them outside the QB position.
That’s why I’m not opposed to building a team and then getting the QB. Jones isn’t good but he’s not the reason why we have sucked for a decade. He’s been part of the problem.
But the main problem is finding a number of good players.
I think Banks and Papa are saying what they're told to say
I think they're trying to put a shine on what is looking like a bleak upcoming season.
If people want to root against Daniel Jones that's their right. No one involved with the organization deserves any grace or benefit of the doubt.
If Banks and Papa want to be taken seriously they could try asking why the Giants are 67-111-1 in the last 11 seasons. Otherwise they're just doing a commercial for why fans should but tickets in 2024.
RE: I think Banks and Papa are saying what they're told to say
I think they're trying to put a shine on what is looking like a bleak upcoming season.
If people want to root against Daniel Jones that's their right. No one involved with the organization deserves any grace or benefit of the doubt.
If Banks and Papa want to be taken seriously they could try asking why the Giants are 67-111-1 in the last 11 seasons. Otherwise they're just doing a commercial for why fans should but tickets in 2024.
Perhaps they are saying what they are supposed to say in other podcasts, but I don't think this one applies. It certainly is the right of the fan to root how they want, absolutely. Similar to fans that want the Giants to succeed because of Jones not in spite of him.
It really is that simple.
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In comment 16521056 NBGblue said:
Quote:
was dumb on many levels, not the least of which is that it raised expectations to a point that he's not capable of living up to. But, in football the QB gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don't. Add in that Jones has had an awful OL every year and a really bad receiving corps every year, which made it nearly impossible for him to succeed, and it's clear that his lack of success isn't all on him. He's not a terrible player. He could have a very good year this year. He's not the long-term answer for the NYG at QB, they can and should look for a better QB. But the amount of derision being heaped on him is over the top; and Banks and Papa were right about that.
THIS ^^^^ Reading BBI is a discouraging pursuit lately. Yes the team has been bad, but the vitriol here is way beyond any semblance of constructive criticism.
Jones is a very bad QB. Please refer to his 2023 where he put up last in the league QB starter stats. Sorry, good QBs don't get outplayed by Tommy DeVito.
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
I really haven't seen much unhinged vitriol of the sort you are describing. It's possible I am not seeing it or recognizing it. I don't know. Look, for many people life is not easy. And for some, football is an escape, and for a subset they don't want to hear people disparage their favorite players, people they invested a lot of time and emotion into. I get it. And for others, they don't want to see their favorite team waste time and season after season with excuses and inadequate players. I understand both sides even though I am in the latter camp.
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In comment 16522348 River Mike said:
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In comment 16521056 NBGblue said:
Quote:
was dumb on many levels, not the least of which is that it raised expectations to a point that he's not capable of living up to. But, in football the QB gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don't. Add in that Jones has had an awful OL every year and a really bad receiving corps every year, which made it nearly impossible for him to succeed, and it's clear that his lack of success isn't all on him. He's not a terrible player. He could have a very good year this year. He's not the long-term answer for the NYG at QB, they can and should look for a better QB. But the amount of derision being heaped on him is over the top; and Banks and Papa were right about that.
THIS ^^^^ Reading BBI is a discouraging pursuit lately. Yes the team has been bad, but the vitriol here is way beyond any semblance of constructive criticism.
Jones is a very bad QB. Please refer to his 2023 where he put up last in the league QB starter stats. Sorry, good QBs don't get outplayed by Tommy DeVito.
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
Just stop. At what point do you realize that saying “they genuinely hate him” sounds like you’re an overly sensitive child? How many times do people have to say NOBODY HATES DANIEL JONES? Jeezus, man. Nobody on this site has even met the guy. But from all accounts he’s a swell guy that you’d like your daughter to date. And THAT is what guys like yourself use to drive your desire to pretend that he’s something that he’s not as a QB. Every single opinion of Daniel Jones on this site is 100% related to how he plays the QB position. Grow up and stop claiming everyone hates Daniel Jones. You sound stupid
It really is that simple.
Some people cannot separate analysis from rooting. Or let their rooting heavily color their analysis (homers).
I'm looking forward to this season less than any I can remember. I can't wait for this to be put to bed either way. I have pretty strong feelings about which way that will turn out, but I guess we'll see.
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In comment 16522356 Darwinian said:
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In comment 16522348 River Mike said:
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In comment 16521056 NBGblue said:
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was dumb on many levels, not the least of which is that it raised expectations to a point that he's not capable of living up to. But, in football the QB gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don't. Add in that Jones has had an awful OL every year and a really bad receiving corps every year, which made it nearly impossible for him to succeed, and it's clear that his lack of success isn't all on him. He's not a terrible player. He could have a very good year this year. He's not the long-term answer for the NYG at QB, they can and should look for a better QB. But the amount of derision being heaped on him is over the top; and Banks and Papa were right about that.
THIS ^^^^ Reading BBI is a discouraging pursuit lately. Yes the team has been bad, but the vitriol here is way beyond any semblance of constructive criticism.
Jones is a very bad QB. Please refer to his 2023 where he put up last in the league QB starter stats. Sorry, good QBs don't get outplayed by Tommy DeVito.
I don't think that many are arguing that DJ is a good QB. Your point is well taken but it is not one of the pure hatred posts I'm referring to ... hence the word "vitriol" They go beyond factual criticism of his play or stats, they sound as if they genuinely hate him.
Just stop. At what point do you realize that saying “they genuinely hate him” sounds like you’re an overly sensitive child? How many times do people have to say NOBODY HATES DANIEL JONES? Jeezus, man. Nobody on this site has even met the guy. But from all accounts he’s a swell guy that you’d like your daughter to date. And THAT is what guys like yourself use to drive your desire to pretend that he’s something that he’s not as a QB. Every single opinion of Daniel Jones on this site is 100% related to how he plays the QB position. Grow up and stop claiming everyone hates Daniel Jones. You sound stupid
Ok, I pretend he's something that he's not? Show me where I praised or defended his play, not just on this thread or anywhere. And yes, of course it's all related to how he plays the QB position, but some here seem to hate him for the way he plays QB instead of just criticizing the play. And in no case or no way did I say that EVERYONE hates him. Oh, and I'm stupid? Grow up.
It really is that simple.
It's fine to think this. What's the point of bothering anymore for you or anyone to keep saying it before you see it? There are half a dozen posts right above this one of yours in which people seem to believe the 2024 season is over already and Jones had failed. They virtually state it as a fact because the way they read his stats (selectively) tells them that. They can claim to be fans but I suspect that fans of other teams might be puzzled to be exposed to this sort of rationalization.
John Mara and the Giants are selling hope and optimism to the fans every off season. It does not end with the marketing department. The people who have a public voice are given scripts.
And a lot of people are sick of wishing and hoping that he is suddenly going to be something he’s never shown to be.
People are just sick and tired of this organization’s incompetence. And then we have to hear from people like Banks-whose Twitter account I checked out earlier and hey Carl…what an embarrassment-tell us we are ‘goofy’ for questioning WTF is going on.
[quote] In comment 16522455 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I just don’t get how people still don’t understand it. No one-as far as I know-is rooting for Jones to fail. I hope he goes out this fall & lights it up. I just don’t expect it.
It really is that simple.
It's fine to think this. What's the point of bothering anymore for you or anyone to keep saying it before you see it? There are half a dozen posts right above this one of yours in which people seem to believe the 2024 season is over already and Jones had failed. They virtually state it as a fact because the way they read his stats (selectively) tells them that. They can claim to be fans but I suspect that fans of other teams might be puzzled to be exposed to this sort of rationalization. [/quote
Ask fans of other teams about Daniel Jones and tell them you think he's good if you want to see puzzlement.
I hope he's the best QB in the league next year. I'm not holding my breath.
I agree that this phenomenon does occur. However, on BBI, I think the overwhelming majority of Jones critics want him to succeed. I know I do.
A narcissist would cheer for failure if that supported the view they have. There are plenty of them out there.
I'm rooting for Eric Gray to be twenty times better than Barry Sanders. What kind of narcissist must you be to think that can't happen?!
To me, success for a 6th year, $46M QB is playing like top 10 QB. Not limited offense. Not game managing. Putting up points and yards by making real NFL throws all over the field. If Jones plays like a Joe Burrow or a Dak Prescott, that is a success.
Unfortunately, I suspect the Giants and many fans have a much lower bar. I think if Jones does his 200 yards, 1 TD, less than 1 INT per game with his very limited set of throws and the Giants win 7, 8, or 9 games - then that will be viewed as success. And he will keep the job as long as he does it.
I do not want that. Scenario A - Jones is a legit good NFL QB is good. I would certainly have to eat some crow if that happened.
But I would rather see Scenario C - Jones falls flat on his face, than Scenario B - Jones is an adequate game manager. Because I think Scenario give the Giants a chance to be really good at some point. Scenario B gives us a Saints/Raiders type of existence for the next few years. I do not want that.
I'm rooting for Eric Gray to be twenty times better than Barry Sanders. What kind of narcissist must you be to think that can't happen?!
I wasn't calling you a narcissist. There are definitely people that rather see Jones fail then their opinions be proven wrong though.
It cuts both ways
It cuts both ways
No there isn’t.
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And his career then they do the Giants winning
It cuts both ways
No there isn’t.
Yeah, there clearly is.
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
I have zero problem saying that and defending that view as a fan.
Interesting that you bring up Eli. I believe it has been shown that Eli really wasn't in decline in his later years. Indeed, in 2018, his last as a full-time starter he completed 66% of his passes (best of his career) for 4,300 yards and 21 TDs versus 11 picks with a 92.4 QB rating. Both the yards and ratings were the 4th best of his career. What makes it interesting is that Eli's best years were 2011 when he had Nicks and Cruz both operating on all cylinders and 2014-15 when he had Odell at full speed.
And it was not like there were 'some' fans that were willing to excuse Eli for the losing it was actually just about every fan who for a decade screamed 'the Giants ruined the back end of his career because of the horrible OL!' Interesting that so same fans now absolutely refuse to concede in any way or shape that playing behind what was in fact an historically bad OL last year might have crimped Jones' play. Just sayin'! (And please don't come back with the old 'he was outplayed by Danny DeVito because the latter did have a significantly different and better OL to work with (not to mention a better receiving corps.)
This is why my criticism isn't about Jones, but about Mara. The Giants aren't objective actors - they want to be proven right on Jones and are looking for any excuse to reward even a mediocre performance (like they did in 2022).
The Giants are very poorly run, and as fans we are stuck hoping that things outside their control save them from their own ineptitude.
Missed the point Christian. Or get some better receivers because Eli wasn't necessarily all that good when he didn't have them. Also remember that in his last two years plus with this team the Giants were 9-26! But yes eff Jones for that awful record his first 2-3 years.
They should bring back Manning.
They should bring back Manning.
Why? Cause you think at 9-26 we could actually sneak into the playoffs!
I have zero problem saying that and defending that view as a fan.
I think a strong outcome is this regime having the courage to move off of Jones after a season which showed progress. A gritty 8-9 season where the roster looks good but the QB shows limitations.
Schoen cuts Jones and they are in the QB market in 2025 with a roster which is viewed much better than it is today.
I don't disagree with your premise in your bad outcomes thread. But, I really like Daboll. I think there is much more potential that the Giants have a strong HC rather than a strong QB. I also think finding viable head coaches in this league is very hard.
Not every decision Schoen & Daboll have made has been poor, they've had misses, but I don't think they are incompetent. I believe the QB decision is complex and goes beyond Schoen & Daboll although they share their piece of blame.
I totally understand the skepticism that NYG would move off Jones off an 8-9 season, but the contract *does* allow for it. Going 8-9 and putting Kirk Cousins in this offense with Daboll & the WR group. That is the best outcome imo over a full reset.
If you're interested in the Giants becoming a true contender at some point, rooting for Jones to fail fast rather than reach his ceiling of low-level NFL starter makes sense.
This is why my criticism isn't about Jones, but about Mara. The Giants aren't objective actors - they want to be proven right on Jones and are looking for any excuse to reward even a mediocre performance (like they did in 2022).
The Giants are very poorly run, and as fans we are stuck hoping that things outside their control save them from their own ineptitude.
I have zero problem saying that and defending that view as a fan.
I don't think that is what Banks and Papa meant.
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Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Interesting that you bring up Eli. I believe it has been shown that Eli really wasn't in decline in his later years. Indeed, in 2018, his last as a full-time starter he completed 66% of his passes (best of his career) for 4,300 yards and 21 TDs versus 11 picks with a 92.4 QB rating. Both the yards and ratings were the 4th best of his career. What makes it interesting is that Eli's best years were 2011 when he had Nicks and Cruz both operating on all cylinders and 2014-15 when he had Odell at full speed.
And it was not like there were 'some' fans that were willing to excuse Eli for the losing it was actually just about every fan who for a decade screamed 'the Giants ruined the back end of his career because of the horrible OL!' Interesting that so same fans now absolutely refuse to concede in any way or shape that playing behind what was in fact an historically bad OL last year might have crimped Jones' play. Just sayin'! (And please don't come back with the old 'he was outplayed by Danny DeVito because the latter did have a significantly different and better OL to work with (not to mention a better receiving corps.)
It actually isn't that interesting.
Eli was in noticeable decline as the 2016 season went along, and began to lose all patience of sitting in the pocket and taking hits in the couple of seasons that followed. He wasn't lifting up that team any longer with his arm and comeback ability from his earlier days. Watch the games.
Assuming he doesn't blow out his ACL again, on March 4th, 2025 they will have to decide if Jones is worth 1/30M. That's cap adjusted pretty close to what his 5th year option was.
They're not getting ride of Jones unless stinks.
Assuming he doesn't blow out his ACL again, on March 4th, 2025 they will have to decide if Jones is worth 1/30M. That's cap adjusted pretty close to what his 5th year option was.
They're not getting ride of Jones unless stinks.
It is incredible that this is still a thing with the Giants. I can't think of a comparable situation.
Banks specifically said a 'sector' of fans seemingly that want Jones to fail.
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In comment 16523312 HardTruth said:
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And his career then they do the Giants winning
It cuts both ways
No there isn’t.
Yeah, there clearly is.
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
The Giants were 9-2 down the stretch in 2016 on the way to the playoffs and if you could see that Eli was in noticeable decline you should be working in the NFL because nobody else saw it and it only became part of the BBI narrative later.
He certainly could be wrong. But to change what he said seems a bit disingenuous. I don't think Banks and Papa are lumping all Giants fans that want Jones replaced as that 'sector' of fans.
That’s why I’m not opposed to building a team and then getting the QB. Jones isn’t good but he’s not the reason why we have sucked for a decade. He’s been part of the problem.
But the main problem is finding a number of good players.
If people want to root against Daniel Jones that's their right. No one involved with the organization deserves any grace or benefit of the doubt.
If Banks and Papa want to be taken seriously they could try asking why the Giants are 67-111-1 in the last 11 seasons. Otherwise they're just doing a commercial for why fans should but tickets in 2024.
If people want to root against Daniel Jones that's their right. No one involved with the organization deserves any grace or benefit of the doubt.
If Banks and Papa want to be taken seriously they could try asking why the Giants are 67-111-1 in the last 11 seasons. Otherwise they're just doing a commercial for why fans should but tickets in 2024.
Perhaps they are saying what they are supposed to say in other podcasts, but I don't think this one applies. It certainly is the right of the fan to root how they want, absolutely. Similar to fans that want the Giants to succeed because of Jones not in spite of him.