Eli was in noticeable decline as the 2016 season went along.
The Giants were 9-2 down the stretch in 2016 on the way to the playoffs and if you could see that Eli was in noticeable decline you should be working in the NFL because nobody else saw it and it only became part of the BBI narrative later.
Appreciate the compliment, but it actually wasn't something that any relatively astute fan that couldn't see. At least ones that loved and respected Eli for his accomplishments but still understood the overall scope of his career.
The 2016 NY Giants actually rode a Defense that was playing out of it's mind as the year went along, helped by the occasional 9-yard slant pass to OBJ who took it the distance. At whatever point in the game the Giants got a tiny lead, Eli went into conservative-mode with the offense and they hung on to win a ton of 1-score games. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but keep things in perspective as to how those games shook out.
RE: We all want the Giants to succeed because of Jones
If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
RE: RE: RE: RE: And there are people who care more about Jones
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
I never intimated solely. Not a productive question to respond to anyway.
If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
Depends if his next game in the playoffs is a dud ;)
RE: We all want the Giants to succeed because of Jones
I want him to throw for 5000 yards and 45 TDs and lead the Giants to a title.
I also want Tomon Fox to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And I want Eric Gray to be the next Barry Sanders.
Are we going to live in reality or in fantasy land?
I am a little confused how my post gets us to 'fantasy land'. Perhaps I failed to be clear what I meant. I meant fans that would want the Giants to succeed solely because of Jones because his valued higher than the Giants as a comparison to those who may want Jones to fail in regard to fans being able to root the way they want.
- We made improvements - all the haters just don't see it
- Uh oh...the OL sucks vs. Daniel Jones sucks
- Rooting for wins vs rooting for draft position
- No sure fire franchise QBs in this draft
- Prove it season for Daniel Jones
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And there are people who care more about Jones
Eli was in noticeable decline as the 2016 season went along.
The Giants were 9-2 down the stretch in 2016 on the way to the playoffs and if you could see that Eli was in noticeable decline you should be working in the NFL because nobody else saw it and it only became part of the BBI narrative later.
Appreciate the compliment, but it actually wasn't something that any relatively astute fan that couldn't see. At least ones that loved and respected Eli for his accomplishments but still understood the overall scope of his career.
The 2016 NY Giants actually rode a Defense that was playing out of it's mind as the year went along, helped by the occasional 9-yard slant pass to OBJ who took it the distance. At whatever point in the game the Giants got a tiny lead, Eli went into conservative-mode with the offense and they hung on to win a ton of 1-score games. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but keep things in perspective as to how those games shook out.
He was running Ben McAdoo's Mickey Mouse offense, which was geared to do one thing - get Odell open on a slant. A young Johnny Unitas would struggle to excel in that situation.
Eli was really good in 2015, I find it hard to believe that his play went south that quickly. Maybe it was running McAdoo's offense without TC to force McAdoo to implement the most basic NFL schemes.
In comment 16522483 BronxBob said:
[quote] In comment 16522455 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I just don’t get how people still don’t understand it. No one-as far as I know-is rooting for Jones to fail. I hope he goes out this fall & lights it up. I just don’t expect it.
It really is that simple.
It's fine to think this. What's the point of bothering anymore for you or anyone to keep saying it before you see it? There are half a dozen posts right above this one of yours in which people seem to believe the 2024 season is over already and Jones had failed. They virtually state it as a fact because the way they read his stats (selectively) tells them that. They can claim to be fans but I suspect that fans of other teams might be puzzled to be exposed to this sort of rationalization. [/quote
Ask fans of other teams about Daniel Jones and tell them you think he's good if you want to see puzzlement.
I hope he's the best QB in the league next year. I'm not holding my breath.
Noter re what other teams' fans might think of Daniel Jones, but that's not connected to the specific point I wanted to make. I was addressing the subject of the video and the question it raised of who's a "fan" or not based on the amount and nature of their public criticism of a player or management or ownership. I was just wondering what fans of other teams would make of the discussions here and in other social media. I do see that someone disagreed and felt that similarly intense discussions happen among other teams' fans. I suppose now that's probably true.
With regard to Jones, I don't think anyone can argue with hearing someone say this a few times: "I hope he's the best QB in the league next year. I'm not holding my breath." But it seems to me that for some folks here it took being challenged about whether they really are a fan or not to dial back to just that level of critique. And the way I see it, when someone can't resist publicly criticizing a player over and over again, in ongoing discussions, but then claims they can root for their personal analysis and expectations to be proven wrong by that player, that is probably just be after the fact rationalization.
I don't think one has to be a narcissist (suggested elsewhere) to prefer being proven correct rather than watching someone else's success trash their analysis. That's just human nature.
and they know what they have in Jones. If he has a merely above average season, they will know he's not the answer. If he absolutely lights it up, that might change the calculus.
Anyway, that's why I'm rooting for DJ this year. I do not think he will have an above average season, though. I think he is generally not a good starter. I think he will make a very good backup QB, though.
threw for 4,000 yards and 26 TD's, things Jones has never done. So if that is Eli being washed, what does it say about Jones?
Youre comparing a mercedes M class to a Kia.
Theyre not similar. No similar talent, no similar performances, no similar accomplishments. The only connecting line is they play the same position and have similar mannerisms.
But fans have been doing this for years: "eli struggled early on too".
Theyre not the same. Jones is wildly less talented at playing QB and always was.
If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
OK let's put it this way. If Ojulari stays healthy this year, and has a good not great season, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 4/100M deal?
If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
OK let's put it this way. If Ojulari stays healthy this year, and has a good not great season, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 4/100M deal?
I wouldn't care what they signed him for, because he is obviously high in the plans for the people running the team.
If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
Ojulari needs to play at least a month in the regular season without showing up on the weekly injury list before anybody should care about too much about him.
Then perform at a higher level vs run and pass before anybody should call his agent with a limited floor-level offer.
And then finish the season strong before agreeing to a final deal.
My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
He’s will not trend to anything that matters until he stays off the injury list.
Not even close to being reievant. Hope that changes but not expecting much.
My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
Well if you are referring to me I'll accept whatever IS. I'll reiterate for the 80 billionth time I don't give a half shit who is taking snaps from center. I want the Giants to build a competitive ROSTER. R-O-S-T-E-R. Especially along the OL and DL. The fact is DJ has had moments with a shit cast of OL and WR (especially OL, ESPECIALLY last year) where he looks good. I am not willing to completely give up on him yet, which is a completely different opinion here than all the people that "know" he sucks. It's that simple.
The point isn't Ojulari. Substitute any player with an uneven track record, and an average performance in their contract year.
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
The point isn't Ojulari. Substitute any player with an uneven track record, and an average performance in their contract year.
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
And my point is that QB is a unique position such that the market is fundamentally different. And neither fans nor franchises typically get so bent out of shape about this with other positions. Kenny Golladay got a huge contract, he sucked, and we cut him. It happens. The emotions here are incredibly high in part because it's a QB. Some of the irrational Jones love/defense, however, I really just don't understand and probably never will.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And there are people who care more about Jones
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
I never intimated solely. Not a productive question to respond to anyway.
Stating that "fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing" does intimate that you might have felt some losses were entirely Eli's responsibility. So I asked. I regret if it bothers you that I addressed your statement as a stand-alone comment and not in the context of the existing discussion. I appreciate Snorkels making it clear that you overstated the effect of Eli's "decline" by attempting to swipe away the viability of allowing for other factors.
So we supposedly have fans who want Jones to succeed more than they want the team to ... and other fans who feel success by Jones can only signal ongoing mediocrity at best for the team. Personally, I find it more tolerable, this time of year, to listen to the optimists. It only seems to take one or two DJ supporters to bring out a boatload of DJ critics (not that I'm carefully counting). I'm in the middle; I can wait and see what happens from this September into next January -- without then projecting what the effect of that will be farther down the road. It reminds me of my friend who came in to work in late January 1987 all worried about how winning the Super Bowl was likely to make things tough going forward. Thankfully, my emotional welfare doesn't require that the Giants be a perennial winner as long as they can be a fairly regular one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And there are people who care more about Jones
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
I never intimated solely. Not a productive question to respond to anyway.
Stating that "fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing" does intimate that you might have felt some losses were entirely Eli's responsibility. So I asked. I regret if it bothers you that I addressed your statement as a stand-alone comment and not in the context of the existing discussion. I appreciate Snorkels making it clear that you overstated the effect of Eli's "decline" by attempting to swipe away the viability of allowing for other factors.
So we supposedly have fans who want Jones to succeed more than they want the team to ... and other fans who feel success by Jones can only signal ongoing mediocrity at best for the team. Personally, I find it more tolerable, this time of year, to listen to the optimists. It only seems to take one or two DJ supporters to bring out a boatload of DJ critics (not that I'm carefully counting). I'm in the middle; I can wait and see what happens from this September into next January -- without then projecting what the effect of that will be farther down the road. It reminds me of my friend who came in to work in late January 1987 all worried about how winning the Super Bowl was likely to make things tough going forward. Thankfully, my emotional welfare doesn't require that the Giants be a perennial winner as long as they can be a fairly regular one.
My comment most certainly does not intimate that I felt some losses were entirely Eli's responsibility. Nor do I think that way.
I also didn't overstate Eli's decline whether you and Snork think so doesn't follow the . Eli's decline was begun to be noticed in 2016 and dragged on for several painful years, mostly because of the inaction of several in the organization. In fact, as a big fan of Eli's, it was sad to watch while the franchise did basically nothing to address the QB situation until is was so late that they became desperate and panicked themselves into a poorly thought-out DJ decision in 2019. That was just after a poorly-thought out decision to put Gettleman in as GM.
And go right ahead and listen to the optimists, hang out in the middle and play the wait-and-see game. It is your right as a fan. The guys running this franchise probably love that based on what the little they have been able to produce on the field for the past decade plus.
Lastly, referring to the NY Giants a fairly regular winner made my afternoon. Keep that type of comedy coming!
The point isn't Ojulari. Substitute any player with an uneven track record, and an average performance in their contract year.
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
And my point is that QB is a unique position such that the market is fundamentally different. And neither fans nor franchises typically get so bent out of shape about this with other positions. Kenny Golladay got a huge contract, he sucked, and we cut him. It happens. The emotions here are incredibly high in part because it's a QB. Some of the irrational Jones love/defense, however, I really just don't understand and probably never will.
I think the emotions are high because Jones was never the QB equivalent of what Golladay the WR was. At least Golladay had a couple of really standout years.
The point isn't Ojulari. Substitute any player with an uneven track record, and an average performance in their contract year.
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
And my point is that QB is a unique position such that the market is fundamentally different. And neither fans nor franchises typically get so bent out of shape about this with other positions. Kenny Golladay got a huge contract, he sucked, and we cut him. It happens. The emotions here are incredibly high in part because it's a QB. Some of the irrational Jones love/defense, however, I really just don't understand and probably never will.
I think the emotions are high because Jones was never the QB equivalent of what Golladay the WR was. At least Golladay had a couple of really standout years.
I agree with your analysis of Jones' play. But I don't think it's just that. I've never seen anything like this in my years following NY sports. Maybe I'm not old enough, IDK.
My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
That’s your problem if you care about what others think. Some of you people feel everyone has to agree with your opinion . Doesn’t work that way. You must be in your twenties.
In comment 16523657 Mike from SI said: Quote: The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
Just maybe the 'real problem is that Daniel Jones has some tools and the potential to be at least a halfway decent NFL QB if given some talent to work with, but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it'
In comment 16523657 Mike from SI said: Quote: The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
Just maybe the 'real problem is that Daniel Jones has some tools and the potential to be at least a halfway decent NFL QB if given some talent to work with, but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it'
With the NFLs 6th highest cap hit at the position, I’d expect more than “halfway decent”.
In comment 16523657 Mike from SI said: Quote: The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
Just maybe the 'real problem is that Daniel Jones has some tools and the potential to be at least a halfway decent NFL QB if given some talent to work with, but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it'
Quite the compliment. In year 6 you think maybe he has the potential to be halfway decent.
I am finally listening to this podcast. I am a little over ten minutes in. So far, unless you are rooting for Daniel Jones to fail, then you are not the ones being addressed. If a fan is rooting for one of their own players to fail then the content so far seems appropriate. For the record, I absolutely think there are fans everywhere of all different teams that actively root against players on their teams they don't like for whatever reason.
Yes, they are specifically talking about tools that would wish for a poor season or a “bad outcome” to get rid of Jones and or Schoen because he seems to back Jones, all because they think they are THAT good at QB evaluation.
Asshole, only description that fits.
The percentage of fans actively *rooting* for jones to fail
Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
RE: The percentage of fans actively *rooting* for jones to fail
Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
Thank you. I hate that so many take criticism as "rooting against" or "hate". There are very few Giants fans who want to see Jones fail. I have been overly critical of him, but as long as he is the QB, I hope he is lights out. And this goes for any player. I think overwhelmingly, any of us would rather be proven wrong about a player we are critical of than proven right. The latter is much more damaging to the team.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
That’s your problem if you care about what others think. Some of you people feel everyone has to agree with your opinion . Doesn’t work that way. You must be in your twenties.
The entire focus of this thread is Papa & Banks commenting on what Giants fans are rooting for. In other words, this thread is explicitly about what others think. It doesn't affect my life in any way. But this is just an odd comment. And I'm not in my twenties although I wish I were.
I'm perfectly comfortable with my stance Jones is not good enough to warrant the investment or future energy and time spent.
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm perfectly comfortable with my stance Jones is not good enough to warrant the investment or future energy and time spent.
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm in my 40s, am I allowed to think that?
"Must be in your twenties" is funny since a lot us have been on BBI either over twenty years or near it.
Some of us haven't even needed a new handle, imagine that?
I'm perfectly comfortable with my stance Jones is not good enough to warrant the investment or future energy and time spent.
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm in my 40s, am I allowed to think that?
"Must be in your twenties" is funny since a lot us have been on BBI either over twenty years or near it.
Some of us haven't even needed a new handle, imagine that?
Yup. I've been a daily user of BBI since I was 18 years olds. And I frequented the site before that, when I was in high school.
I've had the same handle and the same mediocre contributions for 25 years!
RE: RE: The percentage of fans actively *rooting* for jones to fail
Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
Thank you. I hate that so many take criticism as "rooting against" or "hate". There are very few Giants fans who want to see Jones fail. I have been overly critical of him, but as long as he is the QB, I hope he is lights out. And this goes for any player. I think overwhelmingly, any of us would rather be proven wrong about a player we are critical of than proven right. The latter is much more damaging to the team.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
I have not seen any evidence that Papa and Banks are going after fans who are reasonably critical of Jones. I can't imagine if a fan said: "I don't think Jones is the answer at qb; yes his surroundings have not been ideal. However, I think given the amount of snaps we have seen from Jones with these surroundings, I feel I can safely say that Jones is not the answer at qb." Papa and Banks would classify that fan as the 'sector' of fans Banks was speaking of. If they did, then I would totally disagree. Again, to me, they are clearly talking about the seemingly growing number of fans who express their opinions of Jones in a personal tone or expressing their critical opinion as if that is the only opinion that is acceptable.
RE: RE: RE: The percentage of fans actively *rooting* for jones to fail
Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
Thank you. I hate that so many take criticism as "rooting against" or "hate". There are very few Giants fans who want to see Jones fail. I have been overly critical of him, but as long as he is the QB, I hope he is lights out. And this goes for any player. I think overwhelmingly, any of us would rather be proven wrong about a player we are critical of than proven right. The latter is much more damaging to the team.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
I have not seen any evidence that Papa and Banks are going after fans who are reasonably critical of Jones. I can't imagine if a fan said: "I don't think Jones is the answer at qb; yes his surroundings have not been ideal. However, I think given the amount of snaps we have seen from Jones with these surroundings, I feel I can safely say that Jones is not the answer at qb." Papa and Banks would classify that fan as the 'sector' of fans Banks was speaking of. If they did, then I would totally disagree. Again, to me, they are clearly talking about the seemingly growing number of fans who express their opinions of Jones in a personal tone or expressing their critical opinion as if that is the only opinion that is acceptable.
Who decides what is "reasonably critical of Jones"? Maybe you, ChrisRick? Jones is a highly paid quarterback for an NFL team. He is an athlete and a public figure. People get to say what they want about him. Athletes have suffered much worse public abuse than Daniel Jones has. Great athletes. I remember Yankee fans in the 70s shouting the N-word at Reggie Jackson at the Stadium.
Where is the line? Jones is a terrible quarterback and the Giants have botched the position for going on 7 years. The Giants are on the brink of squandering an entire decade due to obstinance and incompetence. This team deserves to lose fans because of their mismanagement. Have I gone too far? Since you seem to think you and Banks are judge and jury, I will wait for your verdict.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The percentage of fans actively *rooting* for jones to fail
Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
Thank you. I hate that so many take criticism as "rooting against" or "hate". There are very few Giants fans who want to see Jones fail. I have been overly critical of him, but as long as he is the QB, I hope he is lights out. And this goes for any player. I think overwhelmingly, any of us would rather be proven wrong about a player we are critical of than proven right. The latter is much more damaging to the team.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
I have not seen any evidence that Papa and Banks are going after fans who are reasonably critical of Jones. I can't imagine if a fan said: "I don't think Jones is the answer at qb; yes his surroundings have not been ideal. However, I think given the amount of snaps we have seen from Jones with these surroundings, I feel I can safely say that Jones is not the answer at qb." Papa and Banks would classify that fan as the 'sector' of fans Banks was speaking of. If they did, then I would totally disagree. Again, to me, they are clearly talking about the seemingly growing number of fans who express their opinions of Jones in a personal tone or expressing their critical opinion as if that is the only opinion that is acceptable.
Who decides what is "reasonably critical of Jones"? Maybe you, ChrisRick? Jones is a highly paid quarterback for an NFL team. He is an athlete and a public figure. People get to say what they want about him. Athletes have suffered much worse public abuse than Daniel Jones has. Great athletes. I remember Yankee fans in the 70s shouting the N-word at Reggie Jackson at the Stadium.
Where is the line? Jones is a terrible quarterback and the Giants have botched the position for going on 7 years. The Giants are on the brink of squandering an entire decade due to obstinance and incompetence. This team deserves to lose fans because of their mismanagement. Have I gone too far? Since you seem to think you and Banks are judge and jury, I will wait for your verdict.
I'm perfectly comfortable with my stance Jones is not good enough to warrant the investment or future energy and time spent.
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm in my 40s, am I allowed to think that?
Yes, apparently your age has given you enough wisdom to provide such analysis.
While I generally agree with your position, I do think the QB thing is part of what is driving the hysteria.
I want him to throw for 5000 yards and 45 TDs and lead the Giants to a title.
I also want Tomon Fox to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And I want Eric Gray to be the next Barry Sanders.
Are we going to live in reality or in fantasy land?
Quote:
Eli was in noticeable decline as the 2016 season went along.
The Giants were 9-2 down the stretch in 2016 on the way to the playoffs and if you could see that Eli was in noticeable decline you should be working in the NFL because nobody else saw it and it only became part of the BBI narrative later.
Appreciate the compliment, but it actually wasn't something that any relatively astute fan that couldn't see. At least ones that loved and respected Eli for his accomplishments but still understood the overall scope of his career.
The 2016 NY Giants actually rode a Defense that was playing out of it's mind as the year went along, helped by the occasional 9-yard slant pass to OBJ who took it the distance. At whatever point in the game the Giants got a tiny lead, Eli went into conservative-mode with the offense and they hung on to win a ton of 1-score games. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but keep things in perspective as to how those games shook out.
I want him to throw for 5000 yards and 45 TDs and lead the Giants to a title.
I also want Tomon Fox to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And I want Eric Gray to be the next Barry Sanders.
Are we going to live in reality or in fantasy land?
Reality is:
- Fox is a back up.
- Gray is a back up
- Jones is the starter.
Also reality:
- What we want is irrelevant
- We can either root for the team, or against it
I was rooting for McCarthy, now I'm rooting for Jones.
Yeah, there clearly is.
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
I never intimated solely. Not a productive question to respond to anyway.
Depends if his next game in the playoffs is a dud ;)
I want him to throw for 5000 yards and 45 TDs and lead the Giants to a title.
I also want Tomon Fox to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And I want Eric Gray to be the next Barry Sanders.
Are we going to live in reality or in fantasy land?
I am a little confused how my post gets us to 'fantasy land'. Perhaps I failed to be clear what I meant. I meant fans that would want the Giants to succeed solely because of Jones because his valued higher than the Giants as a comparison to those who may want Jones to fail in regard to fans being able to root the way they want.
We're all rooting for the Giants to win. This current hell that we're living in sucks.
Maybe even longer.
- Uh oh...the OL sucks vs. Daniel Jones sucks
- Rooting for wins vs rooting for draft position
- No sure fire franchise QBs in this draft
- Prove it season for Daniel Jones
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In comment 16523411 ThomasG said:
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Eli was in noticeable decline as the 2016 season went along.
The Giants were 9-2 down the stretch in 2016 on the way to the playoffs and if you could see that Eli was in noticeable decline you should be working in the NFL because nobody else saw it and it only became part of the BBI narrative later.
Appreciate the compliment, but it actually wasn't something that any relatively astute fan that couldn't see. At least ones that loved and respected Eli for his accomplishments but still understood the overall scope of his career.
The 2016 NY Giants actually rode a Defense that was playing out of it's mind as the year went along, helped by the occasional 9-yard slant pass to OBJ who took it the distance. At whatever point in the game the Giants got a tiny lead, Eli went into conservative-mode with the offense and they hung on to win a ton of 1-score games. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but keep things in perspective as to how those games shook out.
He was running Ben McAdoo's Mickey Mouse offense, which was geared to do one thing - get Odell open on a slant. A young Johnny Unitas would struggle to excel in that situation.
Eli was really good in 2015, I find it hard to believe that his play went south that quickly. Maybe it was running McAdoo's offense without TC to force McAdoo to implement the most basic NFL schemes.
They should never be discussed in the same breath. One has HoF credentials and the other shouldn’t even be a starting QB on a below .500 team.
[quote] In comment 16522455 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I just don’t get how people still don’t understand it. No one-as far as I know-is rooting for Jones to fail. I hope he goes out this fall & lights it up. I just don’t expect it.
It really is that simple.
It's fine to think this. What's the point of bothering anymore for you or anyone to keep saying it before you see it? There are half a dozen posts right above this one of yours in which people seem to believe the 2024 season is over already and Jones had failed. They virtually state it as a fact because the way they read his stats (selectively) tells them that. They can claim to be fans but I suspect that fans of other teams might be puzzled to be exposed to this sort of rationalization. [/quote
Ask fans of other teams about Daniel Jones and tell them you think he's good if you want to see puzzlement.
I hope he's the best QB in the league next year. I'm not holding my breath.
Noter re what other teams' fans might think of Daniel Jones, but that's not connected to the specific point I wanted to make. I was addressing the subject of the video and the question it raised of who's a "fan" or not based on the amount and nature of their public criticism of a player or management or ownership. I was just wondering what fans of other teams would make of the discussions here and in other social media. I do see that someone disagreed and felt that similarly intense discussions happen among other teams' fans. I suppose now that's probably true.
With regard to Jones, I don't think anyone can argue with hearing someone say this a few times: "I hope he's the best QB in the league next year. I'm not holding my breath." But it seems to me that for some folks here it took being challenged about whether they really are a fan or not to dial back to just that level of critique. And the way I see it, when someone can't resist publicly criticizing a player over and over again, in ongoing discussions, but then claims they can root for their personal analysis and expectations to be proven wrong by that player, that is probably just be after the fact rationalization.
I don't think one has to be a narcissist (suggested elsewhere) to prefer being proven correct rather than watching someone else's success trash their analysis. That's just human nature.
Anyway, that's why I'm rooting for DJ this year. I do not think he will have an above average season, though. I think he is generally not a good starter. I think he will make a very good backup QB, though.
Youre comparing a mercedes M class to a Kia.
Theyre not similar. No similar talent, no similar performances, no similar accomplishments. The only connecting line is they play the same position and have similar mannerisms.
But fans have been doing this for years: "eli struggled early on too".
Theyre not the same. Jones is wildly less talented at playing QB and always was.
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
OK let's put it this way. If Ojulari stays healthy this year, and has a good not great season, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 4/100M deal?
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If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
OK let's put it this way. If Ojulari stays healthy this year, and has a good not great season, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 4/100M deal?
I wouldn't care what they signed him for, because he is obviously high in the plans for the people running the team.
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If Azeez Ojulari stays healthy this year and has 10 sacks, and has a nice game in the playoffs, are the Giants going to make him the 7th highest paid pass rusher in the NFL?
Maybe? There is actually a timing aspect to negotiating a deal with a player, along with what the FO/Staff think his actual (healthy) ceiling is for their plans.
Ojulari needs to play at least a month in the regular season without showing up on the weekly injury list before anybody should care about too much about him.
Then perform at a higher level vs run and pass before anybody should call his agent with a limited floor-level offer.
And then finish the season strong before agreeing to a final deal.
What are the odds those things happen?
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
He’s will not trend to anything that matters until he stays off the injury list.
Not even close to being reievant. Hope that changes but not expecting much.
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My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
Well if you are referring to me I'll accept whatever IS. I'll reiterate for the 80 billionth time I don't give a half shit who is taking snaps from center. I want the Giants to build a competitive ROSTER. R-O-S-T-E-R. Especially along the OL and DL. The fact is DJ has had moments with a shit cast of OL and WR (especially OL, ESPECIALLY last year) where he looks good. I am not willing to completely give up on him yet, which is a completely different opinion here than all the people that "know" he sucks. It's that simple.
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
And my point is that QB is a unique position such that the market is fundamentally different. And neither fans nor franchises typically get so bent out of shape about this with other positions. Kenny Golladay got a huge contract, he sucked, and we cut him. It happens. The emotions here are incredibly high in part because it's a QB. Some of the irrational Jones love/defense, however, I really just don't understand and probably never will.
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Yeah, there clearly is.
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
I never intimated solely. Not a productive question to respond to anyway.
Stating that "fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing" does intimate that you might have felt some losses were entirely Eli's responsibility. So I asked. I regret if it bothers you that I addressed your statement as a stand-alone comment and not in the context of the existing discussion. I appreciate Snorkels making it clear that you overstated the effect of Eli's "decline" by attempting to swipe away the viability of allowing for other factors.
So we supposedly have fans who want Jones to succeed more than they want the team to ... and other fans who feel success by Jones can only signal ongoing mediocrity at best for the team. Personally, I find it more tolerable, this time of year, to listen to the optimists. It only seems to take one or two DJ supporters to bring out a boatload of DJ critics (not that I'm carefully counting). I'm in the middle; I can wait and see what happens from this September into next January -- without then projecting what the effect of that will be farther down the road. It reminds me of my friend who came in to work in late January 1987 all worried about how winning the Super Bowl was likely to make things tough going forward. Thankfully, my emotional welfare doesn't require that the Giants be a perennial winner as long as they can be a fairly regular one.
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In comment 16523439 BronxBob said:
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Yeah, there clearly is.
Much the same when Eli went into decline and some fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing.
Which games was Eli personally and solely responsible for us losing? Otherwise factoring in "other directions" would naturally still be in the discussion.
I never intimated solely. Not a productive question to respond to anyway.
Stating that "fans only looked in other directions to explain the losing" does intimate that you might have felt some losses were entirely Eli's responsibility. So I asked. I regret if it bothers you that I addressed your statement as a stand-alone comment and not in the context of the existing discussion. I appreciate Snorkels making it clear that you overstated the effect of Eli's "decline" by attempting to swipe away the viability of allowing for other factors.
So we supposedly have fans who want Jones to succeed more than they want the team to ... and other fans who feel success by Jones can only signal ongoing mediocrity at best for the team. Personally, I find it more tolerable, this time of year, to listen to the optimists. It only seems to take one or two DJ supporters to bring out a boatload of DJ critics (not that I'm carefully counting). I'm in the middle; I can wait and see what happens from this September into next January -- without then projecting what the effect of that will be farther down the road. It reminds me of my friend who came in to work in late January 1987 all worried about how winning the Super Bowl was likely to make things tough going forward. Thankfully, my emotional welfare doesn't require that the Giants be a perennial winner as long as they can be a fairly regular one.
My comment most certainly does not intimate that I felt some losses were entirely Eli's responsibility. Nor do I think that way.
I also didn't overstate Eli's decline whether you and Snork think so doesn't follow the . Eli's decline was begun to be noticed in 2016 and dragged on for several painful years, mostly because of the inaction of several in the organization. In fact, as a big fan of Eli's, it was sad to watch while the franchise did basically nothing to address the QB situation until is was so late that they became desperate and panicked themselves into a poorly thought-out DJ decision in 2019. That was just after a poorly-thought out decision to put Gettleman in as GM.
And go right ahead and listen to the optimists, hang out in the middle and play the wait-and-see game. It is your right as a fan. The guys running this franchise probably love that based on what the little they have been able to produce on the field for the past decade plus.
Lastly, referring to the NY Giants a fairly regular winner made my afternoon. Keep that type of comedy coming!
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
And my point is that QB is a unique position such that the market is fundamentally different. And neither fans nor franchises typically get so bent out of shape about this with other positions. Kenny Golladay got a huge contract, he sucked, and we cut him. It happens. The emotions here are incredibly high in part because it's a QB. Some of the irrational Jones love/defense, however, I really just don't understand and probably never will.
I think the emotions are high because Jones was never the QB equivalent of what Golladay the WR was. At least Golladay had a couple of really standout years.
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The point isn't Ojulari. Substitute any player with an uneven track record, and an average performance in their contract year.
This type of player isn't typically signed to a mega deal. And in the unlikely event a team makes that mistake, they don't typically attack their fan base for being upset.
And my point is that QB is a unique position such that the market is fundamentally different. And neither fans nor franchises typically get so bent out of shape about this with other positions. Kenny Golladay got a huge contract, he sucked, and we cut him. It happens. The emotions here are incredibly high in part because it's a QB. Some of the irrational Jones love/defense, however, I really just don't understand and probably never will.
I think the emotions are high because Jones was never the QB equivalent of what Golladay the WR was. At least Golladay had a couple of really standout years.
I agree with your analysis of Jones' play. But I don't think it's just that. I've never seen anything like this in my years following NY sports. Maybe I'm not old enough, IDK.
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My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
That’s your problem if you care about what others think. Some of you people feel everyone has to agree with your opinion . Doesn’t work that way. You must be in your twenties.
Just maybe the 'real problem is that Daniel Jones has some tools and the potential to be at least a halfway decent NFL QB if given some talent to work with, but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it'
Yup. Says a lot about the people running the team.
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In comment 16523657 Mike from SI said: Quote: The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
Just maybe the 'real problem is that Daniel Jones has some tools and the potential to be at least a halfway decent NFL QB if given some talent to work with, but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it'
With the NFLs 6th highest cap hit at the position, I’d expect more than “halfway decent”.
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In comment 16523657 Mike from SI said: Quote: The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
Just maybe the 'real problem is that Daniel Jones has some tools and the potential to be at least a halfway decent NFL QB if given some talent to work with, but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it'
Quite the compliment. In year 6 you think maybe he has the potential to be halfway decent.
That comment alone means move on.
Man, this era of Giants football is so depressing.
Asshole, only description that fits.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
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In comment 16523650 christian said:
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My point is Ojulari had an uneven first three years. If he has a nice, but well short of great season, no one will or call for him to be signed to a huge deal.
And in the event that improbable mistake were to happen, and he continued to have durability and consistency issues, no one would be defending the mistake.
That's an unfair comparison because QB is a much more unique position. And harder to find competent players. Hence why the market is different.
The real problem here is that Daniel Jones is just not that good but some people, for whatever reason, cannot accept it.
That’s your problem if you care about what others think. Some of you people feel everyone has to agree with your opinion . Doesn’t work that way. You must be in your twenties.
The entire focus of this thread is Papa & Banks commenting on what Giants fans are rooting for. In other words, this thread is explicitly about what others think. It doesn't affect my life in any way. But this is just an odd comment. And I'm not in my twenties although I wish I were.
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm in my 40s, am I allowed to think that?
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm in my 40s, am I allowed to think that?
"Must be in your twenties" is funny since a lot us have been on BBI either over twenty years or near it.
Some of us haven't even needed a new handle, imagine that?
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm in my 40s, am I allowed to think that?
"Must be in your twenties" is funny since a lot us have been on BBI either over twenty years or near it.
Some of us haven't even needed a new handle, imagine that?
Yup. I've been a daily user of BBI since I was 18 years olds. And I frequented the site before that, when I was in high school.
I've had the same handle and the same mediocre contributions for 25 years!
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Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
Thank you. I hate that so many take criticism as "rooting against" or "hate". There are very few Giants fans who want to see Jones fail. I have been overly critical of him, but as long as he is the QB, I hope he is lights out. And this goes for any player. I think overwhelmingly, any of us would rather be proven wrong about a player we are critical of than proven right. The latter is much more damaging to the team.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
I have not seen any evidence that Papa and Banks are going after fans who are reasonably critical of Jones. I can't imagine if a fan said: "I don't think Jones is the answer at qb; yes his surroundings have not been ideal. However, I think given the amount of snaps we have seen from Jones with these surroundings, I feel I can safely say that Jones is not the answer at qb." Papa and Banks would classify that fan as the 'sector' of fans Banks was speaking of. If they did, then I would totally disagree. Again, to me, they are clearly talking about the seemingly growing number of fans who express their opinions of Jones in a personal tone or expressing their critical opinion as if that is the only opinion that is acceptable.
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In comment 16525630 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
Thank you. I hate that so many take criticism as "rooting against" or "hate". There are very few Giants fans who want to see Jones fail. I have been overly critical of him, but as long as he is the QB, I hope he is lights out. And this goes for any player. I think overwhelmingly, any of us would rather be proven wrong about a player we are critical of than proven right. The latter is much more damaging to the team.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
I have not seen any evidence that Papa and Banks are going after fans who are reasonably critical of Jones. I can't imagine if a fan said: "I don't think Jones is the answer at qb; yes his surroundings have not been ideal. However, I think given the amount of snaps we have seen from Jones with these surroundings, I feel I can safely say that Jones is not the answer at qb." Papa and Banks would classify that fan as the 'sector' of fans Banks was speaking of. If they did, then I would totally disagree. Again, to me, they are clearly talking about the seemingly growing number of fans who express their opinions of Jones in a personal tone or expressing their critical opinion as if that is the only opinion that is acceptable.
Who decides what is "reasonably critical of Jones"? Maybe you, ChrisRick? Jones is a highly paid quarterback for an NFL team. He is an athlete and a public figure. People get to say what they want about him. Athletes have suffered much worse public abuse than Daniel Jones has. Great athletes. I remember Yankee fans in the 70s shouting the N-word at Reggie Jackson at the Stadium.
Where is the line? Jones is a terrible quarterback and the Giants have botched the position for going on 7 years. The Giants are on the brink of squandering an entire decade due to obstinance and incompetence. This team deserves to lose fans because of their mismanagement. Have I gone too far? Since you seem to think you and Banks are judge and jury, I will wait for your verdict.
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In comment 16525641 Matt M. said:
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In comment 16525630 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Is so small that it defies comprehesion that papa and banks would waste time while football camps are open to talk about it. There is a difference between expecting a poor result and cheering for it to happen.
They have been hostile to any fans who dare to be critical of the team for years, the whole franchise has been.
Thank you. I hate that so many take criticism as "rooting against" or "hate". There are very few Giants fans who want to see Jones fail. I have been overly critical of him, but as long as he is the QB, I hope he is lights out. And this goes for any player. I think overwhelmingly, any of us would rather be proven wrong about a player we are critical of than proven right. The latter is much more damaging to the team.
That said, for me, to be "proven wrong" about Jones, it has to be a significant improvement. A repeat of 2022 doesn't cut it for this team moving forward.
I have not seen any evidence that Papa and Banks are going after fans who are reasonably critical of Jones. I can't imagine if a fan said: "I don't think Jones is the answer at qb; yes his surroundings have not been ideal. However, I think given the amount of snaps we have seen from Jones with these surroundings, I feel I can safely say that Jones is not the answer at qb." Papa and Banks would classify that fan as the 'sector' of fans Banks was speaking of. If they did, then I would totally disagree. Again, to me, they are clearly talking about the seemingly growing number of fans who express their opinions of Jones in a personal tone or expressing their critical opinion as if that is the only opinion that is acceptable.
Who decides what is "reasonably critical of Jones"? Maybe you, ChrisRick? Jones is a highly paid quarterback for an NFL team. He is an athlete and a public figure. People get to say what they want about him. Athletes have suffered much worse public abuse than Daniel Jones has. Great athletes. I remember Yankee fans in the 70s shouting the N-word at Reggie Jackson at the Stadium.
Where is the line? Jones is a terrible quarterback and the Giants have botched the position for going on 7 years. The Giants are on the brink of squandering an entire decade due to obstinance and incompetence. This team deserves to lose fans because of their mismanagement. Have I gone too far? Since you seem to think you and Banks are judge and jury, I will wait for your verdict.
We need better PRODUCERS from MANHATTAN. JINKIES!
Just because he's the quarterback doesn't make him any more special than any other player.
When the Giants have over-invested in the past on players like Solder and Golladay, fans were perfectly comfortable looking forward to the day those mistakes were in the rearview mirror. I view Daniel Jones the exact same way.
I'm in my 40s, am I allowed to think that?
Yes, apparently your age has given you enough wisdom to provide such analysis.
While I generally agree with your position, I do think the QB thing is part of what is driving the hysteria.