The discussion is about whether the Giants & Jets have a meddling ownership problem. Lombardi says no doubt that the Jets do. With regards to the Giants:
-He says John Mara is a very nice man and very genuine, but he runs a family business.
-NYG struggles to be objective with their team and fall in love with their players.
-No one else was giving Jones that contract, but it was vindication for picking him 6th overall (he was obviously picked BEFORE Schoen & Daboll arrived).
-The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football,
Discussion starts at 1:05 hour mark linked below.
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It's hard to know what to make of Lombardi's statement: "The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football..."
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
The road playoff win was really good and he played as well as anyone had ever seen him play. Sure, Minnesota's defense wasn't good, but then again, look at the offensive skill players we fielded in 2022. Not a whole lot there either.
The problem for Jones is the other 4 years of his career, outside of a few glimpses, are no good. Add in 2 neck injuries, an acl, and a handful of other injuries and we are talking about an average at best QB who you cannot depend on week in and week out.
This Jones contract thing will appeal to the folks who want to believe that no matter what but it just doesn't pass the smell test when in reality it was done to make sure that they could KEEP Barkley without committing to a long term deal with him at $$$$$'s he wanted. It was either Jones gets done and keep Barkley or neither was getting done and Jones would be franchised... I the Giants made the mistake of keeping Barkley (twice actually) when in reality franchising Jones and letting Barkley leave was the BEST financial option..
People will ignore that fact and ignore the fact that the contract for Jones was done with basically a two year window in mind. Yes, the Giants won in 2022 with him, not because of him but that doesn't mean we can't do that again.. What Jones's contract means is he needs to be the WHY if he will realize the full contract value.
Lombardi is a joke- has been for a long time and honestly this isn't very insightful at all. I would love to see someone have a take on the whole Jones & Barkley connection for the 2023 off-season, what really went into play there and take a deeper look at what was really being done. Instead it is always focused on Mara made JS and BD do the deal with Jones and I don't buy that. i think they were told to keep both (sign one and Franchise the other) and the calculated risk was less with Jones (as he would be easier to inflate the contract $'s based on the position and with an out in the deal, where Barkley wanted high end RB money and doubtful he would accept an escape clause in there)..
"the contract" isn't one of a top 5 QB. Nor is it one of a top 10 QB. We can argue all day long about where Jones ranks but we can't really say they gave him a premium QB contract or one that justifies a #6 overall pick at all. I would suggest the opposite, they paid him like a starter but a bottom half starter. Again, you can't compare his contract to a rookie QB contract that are set by the rookie scale. His contract also was pretty team friendly in terms.
Of all the QBs with a second contract, not many are paid less than Jones (excluding backups). Rodgers, Carr, Mayfield, Smith... that might be it.
Why? What is the benefit to this? You're acting on emotion.
wait what? You don't even have the right game there.. Barkley is THE most overrated player in the HISTORY of the NY GIANTS.. Hell, Barkley's best year wasn't even on the level of Tiki's best year! Come on man..
We can say Jones didn't do shit but truly, Barkley became a shadow the last half, which lefty Jones's running ability limited as teams weren't worried about him or Barkley, it was just him. We had NO WR's, I mean Hodgins was our number 1 at that point- a guy we got off waivers...
Daily Double!
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They need to cut him if he doesn't make his decision soon. They have given him plenty of time.
Why? What is the benefit to this? You're acting on emotion.
A release and a retirement are the same exact thing to the cap. In fact, it is actually helping us to not have a decision yet. Maybe he made up his mind and is doing the Giants a favor by not announcing it publicly until June 1st?
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The issue is as a CEO, he becomes attached to players and then cant objectively manage the roster. He bids against himself and overpays to keep mediocre talent.
Mara does not have the CHOPS to make tough contractual business decisions once in full bloom love.
The road playoff win was really good and he played as well as anyone had ever seen him play. Sure, Minnesota's defense wasn't good, but then again, look at the offensive skill players we fielded in 2022. Not a whole lot there either.
The problem for Jones is the other 4 years of his career, outside of a few glimpses, are no good. Add in 2 neck injuries, an acl, and a handful of other injuries and we are talking about an average at best QB who you cannot depend on week in and week out.
Very well said Chris.
This reads like the call is coming from inside the house
The closest analogy would be the Aston Martin Formula 1 team, which was purchased so that the owner's son could have a permanent spot on the grid in F1.
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…when Barkley got hurt during his 30+ carry game (Jags?) Jones did fuck-all to pick up the slack.
wait what? You don't even have the right game there.. Barkley is THE most overrated player in the HISTORY of the NY GIANTS.. Hell, Barkley's best year wasn't even on the level of Tiki's best year! Come on man..
We can say Jones didn't do shit but truly, Barkley became a shadow the last half, which lefty Jones's running ability limited as teams weren't worried about him or Barkley, it was just him. We had NO WR's, I mean Hodgins was our number 1 at that point- a guy we got off waivers...
Saquon Barkley led the NFL in rushing through 9 games and the Giants were 7-2 in that stretch
It's hard to know what to make of Lombardi's statement: "The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football..."
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I respect Sy alot but some of that was rose colored glasses - Jones threw 13 passes vs Chicago and had 81 passing yards. Yes he ran well but still. He had 217 pass yds and 0 TDs vs GB.
.
He definitely earned ones vs Colts & Vikes but if Jones passed the bare minimum mark for a QB he got recognized
As an aside, Mara doesn’t have to tell Schoen that we’re going to do this or that like a Jerry Jones would do but for sure he’s a meddling owner who has done damage. Maybe he’s cut back but one would be naive to think that decisions regarding Jones and Barkley vis-à-vis franchising and contracting didn’t have a heavy dose of Mara’s desires.
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I guess it is if you're relying on Sy to tell you who played well or not. I mean zero disrespect to Sy for the work he puts in, and I'm happy to read it, but just because he calls someone a stud doesn't make it so, and certainly doesn't obligate any of us to agree.
Bingo.
One might also infer that he was also right with DG when he made that pick.
The closest analogy would be the Aston Martin Formula 1 team, which was purchased so that the owner's son could have a permanent spot on the grid in F1.
Stroll has shown more promise in his craft than Jones has in his.
The Giant's situation is more like Haas and Mazepin
If that was the case why didn’t we win Barkleys other seasons?
Jones and Barkley played off each other really well in 2022, it was the entire gameplan. Its a shame the two of them werent both healthy together for longer periods of time.
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According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I guess it is if you're relying on Sy to tell you who played well or not. I mean zero disrespect to Sy for the work he puts in, and I'm happy to read it, but just because he calls someone a stud doesn't make it so, and certainly doesn't obligate any of us to agree.
Are you saying Sy’56 was wrong all 7 times about Daniel Jones?
Or, he was wrong just once?
Or, something in between?
Or, what exactly are you saying?
Lombardi deals in bullshit. Keep slinging that bullshit. Fans fucking love it.
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It's hard to know what to make of Lombardi's statement: "The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football..."
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I respect Sy alot but some of that was rose colored glasses - Jones threw 13 passes vs Chicago and had 81 passing yards. Yes he ran well but still. He had 217 pass yds and 0 TDs vs GB.
.
He definitely earned ones vs Colts & Vikes but if Jones passed the bare minimum mark for a QB he got recognized
He was given 7 Stud awards in the context of how well his fellow team mates played. And that includes a below average WR unit and O-line unit.
Despite your little narrative
Guess you missed that we tried to draft his replacement
Move along
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In comment 16521942 sb from NYT Forum said:
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…when Barkley got hurt during his 30+ carry game (Jags?) Jones did fuck-all to pick up the slack.
wait what? You don't even have the right game there.. Barkley is THE most overrated player in the HISTORY of the NY GIANTS.. Hell, Barkley's best year wasn't even on the level of Tiki's best year! Come on man..
We can say Jones didn't do shit but truly, Barkley became a shadow the last half, which lefty Jones's running ability limited as teams weren't worried about him or Barkley, it was just him. We had NO WR's, I mean Hodgins was our number 1 at that point- a guy we got off waivers...
Saquon Barkley led the NFL in rushing through 9 games and the Giants were 7-2 in that stretch
Ok, so let me explain my point- #1 the issue was with Houston not Jacksonville.
Barkley had 933 yards rushing (give or take) and 6 Tds through 9 games. Jones had 427 yds rushing and 3 Tds through 9 games (plus he had 1596 yds passing and 8 pass TDs).
To say Barkley was the reason in weeks 1-9 isn't accurate (by itself) and he completely fell off the second half of the season..
now let's hear him do kraft, tepper, davis, blank, woody, etc.
Dak was an MVP candidate last year, but Jones is going to let him hit FA. Neither franchise has family members littered throughout the organization. We can all continue to whistle past the graveyard and circle the wagons whenever someone from the “outside” dares criticize the team, but the results speak for themselves. 2 winning seasons in the last decade plus…and counting.
Are you saying Sy’56 was wrong all 7 times about Daniel Jones?
Or, he was wrong just once?
Or, something in between?
Or, what exactly are you saying?
I'm saying exactly what I said.
His opinion is not an edict.
He's entitled to his opinion.
I'm happy to read his opinion.
I disagree with him at times.
I disagree with him at other times.
I don't need Sy, again, no disrespect to him, to tell me who played well or not.
If you do, cool. No judgment.
I don't think Jones is as bad as many here do, but I view his lack of successful throws downfield as a fatal flaw. It might be something he can improve on, though I'm not very optimistic that this clicks for him in year 6.
I'm saying exactly what I said.
His opinion is not an edict.
He's entitled to his opinion.
I'm happy to read his opinion.
I disagree with him at times.
I disagree with him at other times.
I don't need Sy, again, no disrespect to him, to tell me who played well or not.
If you do, cool. No judgment.
the first "disagree" should read "agree"
^^^
This
Just sucks that so many people know what's going to happen. They bare always correct as we know. Do they offer up betting tips? Oh yea, they do. Then never own up to them when they miss.
This Jones contract thing will appeal to the folks who want to believe that no matter what but it just doesn't pass the smell test when in reality it was done to make sure that they could KEEP Barkley without committing to a long term deal with him at $$$$$'s he wanted. It was either Jones gets done and keep Barkley or neither was getting done and Jones would be franchised... I the Giants made the mistake of keeping Barkley (twice actually) when in reality franchising Jones and letting Barkley leave was the BEST financial option..
People will ignore that fact and ignore the fact that the contract for Jones was done with basically a two year window in mind. Yes, the Giants won in 2022 with him, not because of him but that doesn't mean we can't do that again.. What Jones's contract means is he needs to be the WHY if he will realize the full contract value.
Lombardi is a joke- has been for a long time and honestly this isn't very insightful at all. I would love to see someone have a take on the whole Jones & Barkley connection for the 2023 off-season, what really went into play there and take a deeper look at what was really being done. Instead it is always focused on Mara made JS and BD do the deal with Jones and I don't buy that. i think they were told to keep both (sign one and Franchise the other) and the calculated risk was less with Jones (as he would be easier to inflate the contract $'s based on the position and with an out in the deal, where Barkley wanted high end RB money and doubtful he would accept an escape clause in there)..
Fascinating theory. You mean to tell me the Giants decided to give Jones a stupid contract, paid him an extra 10 to 20 million a year, so that they could save 1 or 2 million a year on the Barkley contract?
That makes perfect business sense. Actually, it makes no sense at all. Please stop repeating it.
"the contract" isn't one of a top 5 QB. Nor is it one of a top 10 QB. We can argue all day long about where Jones ranks but we can't really say they gave him a premium QB contract or one that justifies a #6 overall pick at all. I would suggest the opposite, they paid him like a starter but a bottom half starter. Again, you can't compare his contract to a rookie QB contract that are set by the rookie scale. His contract also was pretty team friendly in terms.
Of all the QBs with a second contract, not many are paid less than Jones (excluding backups). Rodgers, Carr, Mayfield, Smith... that might be it.
Sure.
When the Jones comtract was signed it was along the lines of a top 10 NFL contract all-time. But somehow your convinced it was a bottom tier QB contract. Top 10 all time, for a player who nobody thought was among the top 100 players in today's game.
The Jones contract was stupid. We don't have to be more stupid defending it.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did Lombardi say the Cowboys aren't runine a family business? That would certainly be a dumb take if so.
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According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I guess it is if you're relying on Sy to tell you who played well or not. I mean zero disrespect to Sy for the work he puts in, and I'm happy to read it, but just because he calls someone a stud doesn't make it so, and certainly doesn't obligate any of us to agree.
It's somewhat grading on a curve too. He names 3 studs from every Giants game, but that doesn't mean he's declaring any of them studs relative to other NFL players.
It's somewhat grading on a curve too. He names 3 studs from every Giants game, but that doesn't mean he's declaring any of them studs relative to other NFL players.
Yeah. The best piece of shit is still a piece of shit.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
This. Since our average record in the last 10 years is 6-10, anything .500 or over looks great in comparison. 9-7-1 is a pretty low bar for a good year.