The discussion is about whether the Giants & Jets have a meddling ownership problem. Lombardi says no doubt that the Jets do. With regards to the Giants:
-He says John Mara is a very nice man and very genuine, but he runs a family business.
-NYG struggles to be objective with their team and fall in love with their players.
-No one else was giving Jones that contract, but it was vindication for picking him 6th overall (he was obviously picked BEFORE Schoen & Daboll arrived).
-The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football,
Discussion starts at 1:05 hour mark linked below.
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If you have a fact-based opinion on a topic, all positive and negative views should be equally welcome.
Otherwise what are we doing here?
I think people should stop posting in threads who have already expressed their opinions on the topic hundreds of times in hundreds of threads.
Surely you have to be tired of the constant posting of the same thing from Terps, SGFG, Producer amongst others who say the SAME thing in every thread.
Debating on this site is non existent when a few posters hijack the thread and that’s exactly what they do. Even if you agree with them, you know it’s true.
I assume (almost) everyone is operating in good faith, and any ribbing is good natured.
I can count on one finger the poster who I think exclusively participates on this site to attack posters, with no intention to literally ever debate football.
Sadly, those voices get drown out too often. And that’s with the pro and anti Jones crowd.
Woof that's rough. The Giants have definitely been the worst NFC team over the last decade.
Either way its history within the annuals of Mara Tech. Buying into a franchise within a premium market and founder.
Only what 8 NFC East titles since its creation. 8 first quarter touchdowns in the past three seasons. I think the number 8 is the flag we missed.
As bad as it was and is, the four superbowls might have kept the kool-aid to be poured and shared within the front office.
Losing is one think, not being competitive is the pain point.
Thankfully the Jets are as bad if not worse.
Ownership was soft on the front office for over a decade (many poor drafts). Coaches were let go but only in more recent years did shake up to the front office happen.
When the Giants finally recover from the Reese great destruction of the LoS (extended by Dave and now Schoen) they will again start winning the NFCE if they have the right HC with enough good players outside of the fronts.
Either way its history within the annuals of Mara Tech. Buying into a franchise within a premium market and founder.
Only what 8 NFC East titles since its creation. 8 first quarter touchdowns in the past three seasons. I think the number 8 is the flag we missed.
As bad as it was and is, the four superbowls might have kept the kool-aid to be poured and shared within the front office.
Losing is one think, not being competitive is the pain point.
Thankfully the Jets are as bad if not worse.
8 first quarter touchdowns over the past three seasons?
That is just crazy-level bad.
Go Terps takes his ball home and goes home when called out by a moderator.
The moderator was completely out of line in his call out. The moderator in question is a rose-colored glasses homer who did not like anyone complaining about Jones and this organization. I also stopped posting here for a while after that because of actions like that from adults who should know better and not be so thin skinned where he can't stand opinions contrary to his own.
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Go Terps takes his ball home and goes home when called out by a moderator.
The moderator was completely out of line in his call out. The moderator in question is a rose-colored glasses homer who did not like anyone complaining about Jones and this organization. I also stopped posting here for a while after that because of actions like that from adults who should know better and not be so thin skinned where he can't stand opinions contrary to his own.
You may be right. But the optics of him leaving because of his tone on the board was questioned and the Giants were having some success, only to come back to gloat when things went very poorly (for a myriad of reasons) and only continued throughout the entire offseason screams agenda driven.
It has gotten to the point where it doesnt matter if he is right or wrong, his primary goal is to hijack threads and make it about him. I would venture 97% of the posters here have a very similair opinion of Jones that he does. But a very few act like he does.
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Lombardi deals in bullshit. Keep slinging that bullshit. Fans fucking love it.
The Giants QB is bad. The OL is bad. The receivers are bad. Some of these may change, but recently this is true.
Nobody - ownership, media, fans - is making a hard case that the OL and receivers are good. There is no debate. There are no positive comments from Mara, no plants from state media, no massive financial commitments, no support from the fans.
With Daniel, who is a bad starting QB, we have all those things. Praise from Mara, planted media stories, massive contract, fan support (some still love him, some are more of the "leave Daniel alone" variety.
Thus, there is back and forth on Daniel. There is much less on the other problem areas.
The Giants QB is bad. The OL is bad. The receivers are bad. Some of these may change, but recently this is true.
Nobody - ownership, media, fans - is making a hard case that the OL and receivers are good. There is no debate. There are no positive comments from Mara, no plants from state media, no massive financial commitments, no support from the fans.
With Daniel, who is a bad starting QB, we have all those things. Praise from Mara, planted media stories, massive contract, fan support (some still love him, some are more of the "leave Daniel alone" variety.
Thus, there is back and forth on Daniel. There is much less on the other problem areas.
And this is what drives much of the frustration. Management never defends the team as a whole or individual players - with the exception of Daniel Jones.
Nobody in the front office or state controlled media (Papa, Banks, Dottino, et al) are concerned about saying the Oline isn't good enough, or the WRs aren't good enough. They will criticize them all day. The QB? "That's on us for not putting better people around Daniel. He's played as well as anyone can expect and who knows how good he can be if those other a**holes start playing better?"
This is a Mara family trait. Wellington did the same thing.
Unfortunately, that's not a way to run a football team.
I will also hasten to add that this is true also: "John Mara is a very nice man and very genuine."
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Oh please.
DJ's performance 7 days later in the Eagle Playoff Game. Never mentioned.
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Great post.
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Great post...
For context, my daughter was born in 2013 and son was born in 2016. These are the prime years where their establish fandom, and I'm doing my best to steer them to my teams. Sundays are always Giants days, and the day revolves on the Giants game.
Because the Giants have been so bad and so uninteresting, my son has shown little interest in them (he will watch the Knicks and Rangers because they are exciting). My Daughter will watch the big games, but is far from seeking out the games (again, she will watch the Knicks and Rangers because they are exciting).
I'm sick of the losing and want my kids to enjoy the Giants like I grew up doing. I'm not tied to any player on this roster... I want them to do whatever is needed to win.
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In comment 16522062 Go Terps said:
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The Giants won 10 games, finished third in the division, were 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, went 4-6-1 after Halloween, were outscored for the season, and ended the year being non-competitive against a division rival.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
I know this won't change a damn thing but, I remember that thread well. Terps left for a while because one of the mods threatened to ban him for repeatedly being critical about Jones.
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In comment 16522066 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16522062 Go Terps said:
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The Giants won 10 games, finished third in the division, were 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, went 4-6-1 after Halloween, were outscored for the season, and ended the year being non-competitive against a division rival.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
I know this won't change a damn thing but, I remember that thread well. Terps left for a while because one of the mods threatened to ban him for repeatedly being critical about Jones.
Mbavaro knows that and was likely on that same thread as well.
DJ's performance 7 days later in the Eagle Playoff Game. Never mentioned.
Yep! It was a horrible performance. One of the worst in his career.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
No he doesn’t.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
Tell ya what….if you think I am a dupe….feel free to ask Eric
People who post the race card are divisive and that crap had no place on this board
If you disagree with me…that’s fine, but that’s my stance
I don't think it's good form for posters who have been uninvited from the party, to complain or bait other posters in the same situation.
I think the word dupe is thrown around too loosely. It's pretty damn easy to figure out if someone formally posted under another name. If the admins care/don't care if someone is back, why should anyone else? A dupe to me is someone posting under two handles at the same time.
I also find the noble protection of BBI against negativity/positivity a little rich. The collective number of keystrokes devoted to criticizing Go Terps and his posting frequency certainly exceeds his actual posts. Is that behavior not counterproductive?
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that mbavaro acted like he had no idea Terps was gone for a while, and reacted to it with the same feigned horror.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
Tell ya what….if you think I am a dupe….feel free to ask Eric
People who post the race card are divisive and that crap had no place on this board
If you disagree with me…that’s fine, but that’s my stance
I never said you were (or weren't) a dupe or said anything about anyone using the race card. Stick to what people actually said if you want to argue with them. It will help them try and take you seriously.
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In comment 16523269 Mike from Ohio said:
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that mbavaro acted like he had no idea Terps was gone for a while, and reacted to it with the same feigned horror.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
Tell ya what….if you think I am a dupe….feel free to ask Eric
People who post the race card are divisive and that crap had no place on this board
If you disagree with me…that’s fine, but that’s my stance
I never said you were (or weren't) a dupe or said anything about anyone using the race card. Stick to what people actually said if you want to argue with them. It will help them try and take you seriously.
Mike
I know you didn’t say anything about the race card and I wasn’t referring to you and perhaps I should have made that more clear…so that’s my bad
For the record….i do think you are a good/fair poster and the few times we have engaged…it’s been a good discussion
I don't think it's good form for posters who have been uninvited from the party, to complain or bait other posters in the same situation.
I think the word dupe is thrown around too loosely. It's pretty damn easy to figure out if someone formally posted under another name. If the admins care/don't care if someone is back, why should anyone else? A dupe to me is someone posting under two handles at the same time.
I also find the noble protection of BBI against negativity/positivity a little rich. The collective number of keystrokes devoted to criticizing Go Terps and his posting frequency certainly exceeds his actual posts. Is that behavior not counterproductive?
I think many of us excuse our own hypocrisy by reasoning that another poster 'started something'. I think we use that to insult/name call other posters. Someone called me an insulting name so I'll do the same. Someone else was trying to piss me off so I'll do the same.
A problem with that is it just continues the cycle. Although, it is not always easy to not retaliate. I have continued many cycles here unfortunately.
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In comment 16522066 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16522062 Go Terps said:
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The Giants won 10 games, finished third in the division, were 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, went 4-6-1 after Halloween, were outscored for the season, and ended the year being non-competitive against a division rival.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
I know this won't change a damn thing but, I remember that thread well. Terps left for a while because one of the mods threatened to ban him for repeatedly being critical about Jones.
And that mod is now also out on Jones
The Giants are 1 of 32 in a unique antitrust enterprise. To quote Wellington Mara's close friend Art Modell, the NFL is run by “a bunch of fat-cat Republicans who vote socialist on football.” Art Modell and Pete Rozelle were the two key people that convinced Wellington Mara to share the TV money equally. That created the parity that allowed the NFL to grow into what it’s become. That's why Wellington is deservedly in the NFL HOF.
Rosabeth Moss Kanter from Harvard Business Review said this in article from 2011:
There is a very interesting NFL off the field potential development that could impact the Giants more than the other 32 teams because of their unique 50/50 ownership.
One of the possibilities on the table: allowing institutional wealth, including private equity, to invest in NFL franchises, which the league has never permitted.
A move to allow private equity firms or institutional wealth to invest as limited partners could free up cash for owners to pursue projects such as stadium renovations and would represent a large shift in how the league has historically operated, with the majority of franchises traditionally run as family businesses with single-family ownership.
The Giants have the only 50/50 ownership setup in the history of the NFL. The NFL has changed its by-laws to never allow a straight 50/50 again. Not only is the 50/50 split unique but the two ownership families could not be more different.
There are 11 Mara's who own an equal part of their 50%. Their only business is the football team, and it generates their wealth. There are 3 Tisch's who equally own their 50% of the team and each one is a billionaire several times over without the Giants income.
Enter institutional wealth, which could be more amenable to passive investment. Arctos, for example, advertises on the company's website they are "long-horizon investors with no aspirations for control ownership."
There are other reasons for the NFL to consider private equity. For example, there is variance of wealth among NFL owners. Some owners have a vast amount of their fortune tied up in their teams and therefore less access to nonteam-related cash, so private equity firms could provide those owners with liquidity.
The Tisch family probably doesn't need to pull money out the Giants. This is pure speculation, but I don't think there's any reason for them to sell any of their 50% and become minority owners unless they are tired of their name being associated with the Giants ineptitude. I think that's unlikely.
I think the Mara family might be more tempted, but their hands might be tied. I'll take another guess and say I think both families would have the first option on any sale of any percentage. So, if the Mara's wanted to sell 10% to raise cash the Tisch family might have a contractual first option to buy that 10%.
Even if the Tisch's don't, if the Mara's were to sell 10% to someone else, they'd become minority owners. I can't imagine I will ever see that. Maybe the two families will make an agreement to both sell 10%. The Tisch family doesn't need the money, but I could see them agreeing to that for their partners. Regardless of the Giants 1/32nd interesting business times are coming to the NFL.
Private equity in the NFL? How team ownership might shift - ( New Window )