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Comparing Giants 2022 Roster to the Present Roster (Offense)

gidiefor : Mod : 5/22/2024 1:26 pm
I've been reviewing how the Giants roster has evolved under the new FO when they arrived in 2022 to the present; and I think the real story about the Giants is not just about the QB. Their is a dramatic difference between the rosters we ended up with in 2022 and what we can forecast now in terms of both Starters and Team Depth.

I debated how to present this, either by drawing up the rosters side by side, or by looking at the evolution of the position groups; and while there is some very interesting data when you look at the changes from year 2022 to 2023 to 2024, I think that understanding what has happened is easier when you look at it by position groups.

I am going to start with the Offense first in this thread. I will post a similar write up about the defense in a couple of Days.

[i] Note the parameters for this analysis: Starters are defined as the players who started the most games at the starting position during the season; Depth players played in at least 2 games.[i]

Quarterbacks:
Starters: For all intensive purposes Daniel Jones was the Starter in 2022, he essentially was the Starter in 2023 even though Tyrod Taylor played in more games and started the same number of games; and he remains the projected starter in 2024.

Depth: 11 yr veteran Tyrod Taylor was the back up he played in 3 games in 2022, and 11 games in 2023; but now the back up is Drew Lock, with Danny DeVito as the emergency QB. The Giants did bring in QB Nathan Rourke off of waivers, but he is likely headed to the practice squad if he stays.

I view the situation at QB as a push right now. Depending on your view of Daniel Jones, he either: still sucks, hasn't had a fair shot, or he has potential if he can stay upright and be surrounded by better skill players. He is certainly, right now, projected to have better skill players around him this year. While Tyrod Taylor was more experienced and more skilled than Drew Lock, he has had problems staying on the field; Lock orchestrated an exciting come back win against the Eagles last year, starting in place of Geno Smith, and he showed some improvements and maturing in his game playing for Seattle from his time at Denver. According to his write ups he makes bone-headed decisions sometimes.

Offensive Line:
Starters: in 2022, 2 yr vet LT Andrew Thomas (16 starts), 2 yr vet LG Ben Bredeson (8 starts), 7 yr vet C Jon Feliciano (15 starts), 7 yr vet RG Mark Glowinski (16 starts), and Rookie RT Evan Neal (13 Starts) started out with OL Coach Bobby Johnson. In 2024 the projected Starters are 4 yr vet LT Andrew Thomas (14 games projected), 4 yr vet LG John Runyon Jr (14 games projected), 1 yr vet C John Michael Schmitz (14 games projected), 7 yr vet Jermaine Eluemenor (14 games projected), and 2 yr vet RT Evan Neal (14 games projected). Bobby Johnson is gone and replaced by Carmen Bricillo who led the 10th ranked offensive Line in the NFL, a line that included Jermaine Eluemenor.

Depth: There is only 1 player returning in 2024 that was a Depth player in 2022 OL Joshua Ezudu who was a rookie in 2022. His fellow rookie and college teammate Markus Mekethen was on IR for the entire season that year. Rookie T Devery Hamilton, 2 year T Matt Peart, 1 year G Jack Anderson, 3 yr G Nick Gates are gone. from 2023 8 yr vet G Mark Glowinski, 4 yr vet OL Sean Harlow, and 3 yr vet G Shane Lemieux are all gone. No OL were drafted in 2024, but the players fighting it out for depth are 2022 draftees Joshua Ezudu and Markus McKethen, 3 year vet G Jalen Mayfeld who are returning players and newly signed 4 yr vet C Jimmy Morrissey, 7 yr vet C Austin Schlottmann, 2 yr vet G Jake Kubas, 8 year vet G Aaron Stinnie, 7 yr vet T Matt Nelson, and UDFAs T Marcellus Johnson and G Jake Kubas will be duking it out along with a few OL remaining on the practice squad.

I view the Offensive line, even with two returning starters for 2022 penciled in as radically different. They have a OL coach with a winning background and great breeding. They have cycled out 7 players from the past 2 years. There are 2 first round picks and a second round pick slated to play, and 2 experienced vets with good breeding projected at Guard. I like the chances of this group improving. From 2022 to 2023 this group took a step back. They absolutely need to better than they were in 2022, but they look and smell like they will.

Wide Receiver:
The Starting WRs in 2022 were 5 yr vet Markus Johnson (7 games), 3 yr vet Darious Slayton (11 games),h 2 yr vet FB Chris Mayrick (8 games). This Group was completely completely revamped by 2024 and is projected to be Rookie first round speedster WR Malik Nabers (11 games projected), 1 year vet and third round pick speedster WR Jalen Hyatt, and 2 year vet and 2nd round pick speedster WR Wan'Dale Robinson. The Wide receiver coach has remained the same throughout the three years in Mike Groh.

Depth: in 2022 veterans Kenny Golladay and Sterling Shepard had very little impact, and players like Richie James, Isiah Hodgins, David Sills and Rookie 2nd rounder Wan'Dale Robinson all played and had impact Shepard (3 games) and Robinson (6 games) made it to IR, and Richie James (17 games), David Sills (9 games) and Isiah Hoddgins (8 games) all had significant playing time. Golladay, Shepard, Robinson, Sills and Campbell are gone. Paris Campbell came and went in 2023 having very little impact. Jalen Hyatt and WanDale Robinson teased in 2023. Darious Slayton who is a speedy 3 or 4 receiver had the most snaps and impact. This year in addition to drafting the uber-talented Malik Nabers at 6 the Giants brought in veterans Isiah McKenzie, Allen Robinson, and Miles Boykin, and several UDFAs. Bryce Ford-Wheaton returns from IR, Slayton returns and is lobbying for a raise.

The specter of a fully transformed WR corp all drafted by this FO with depth players that would probably have been starters in 2022 the WR corps is looking like a strength of this team. (Fingers crossed) Any one of the three projected starters can take the ball to the house from a screen pass or end around and can run like the wind. Hyatt is more of a long ball receiver who can separate over the top. Wa'Dale and Malik can both separate in the short field. All three have world class speed as does Slayton who is now gone from the main starter to reasonable depth who has real competition for the 4, 5 and 6 slot.

Running Back:
In 2022 the Starter was 4 yr vet and # 2 pick RB Saquon "Quads" Barkley (16 games), the Giants place the franchise tag on Barkley at the end of 2022 after much turmoil, and Barkley went on to have a good season. But at the end of 2023 he was let go to a contract the Giants weren't willing to write and to the rival Philadelphia Eagles at that. Barkley was a franchise back with several 1000 yd seasons for the Giants, but the new FO was of the mind set that running back is just not a premium position. 2024 will see Barkley replaced by 5 yr vet RB Devon Singletary (15 games projected). If the FO is correct Devon Singletary should be able to reasonably carry an NFL running back load and be productive, at a very reasonable price. Will he have the same impact as Barkley. Well the truth is that he probably won't need to. The home run hitting is going to come from the WR corps in 2024. They are the premium positions and FO is treating that corps as such spending 3 premium picks over three years to revamp it. Another interesting develoment is that the Giants have a new RB coach Joel Thomas. Joel THomas is the coach that turned 3rd Round Pick Alvin Kamara into a Rookie of the year in 2017 and a perennial pro bowl running back.

Depth: in 2022 the RB depth was essentially 5 yr vet Matt Breida (17 games) and 1 year vet Gary Brightwell (17 games). They both saw time behind Barkley in 2022 and 2023. In 2023 the Giants added Eric Gray (13 games) and Jashaun Corbin (6 games) to the depth mix. In 2024 they have added Rookie Tyronne Tracey, and exciting prospect who converted from WR to RB and who has the same size, speed, strength and agility attributes as Alvin Kamara did coming out of Tennessee. Can Joel Thomas do it again? This observer is excited at the possibility because Tracey is absolutely electric on film. This is essentially a new day dawning in the Giants. They have dumped a franchise icon and think they can make hay on a better budget at this position.

Tight End:
In 2022 4th Round Rookie Daniel Bellinger (11 games) was the Starting TE and he had a huge impact, but was sidelined and limited somewhat by an eye injury. He bulked up over the off season and came into camp with a lot more muscle, but this did not translate onto the field for some reason. Bellinger was replaced by 8 year vet Darren Waller (11 games) as starter in 2023, but the oft injured Waller while he had solid production when playing, just did not have the projected impact for the magnitude of his contract in 2023. He is the slated starter in 2024 but may well retire. If Waller retires Bellinger will probably return as the starter. TE is another position that the FO values similarly to the Running back position. The Giants Tight End Coach Andy Bischoff coached in 2022 and 2023 and left and in 2024 is replaced by Tim Kelly the offensive Coordinator of the Tennessee Titans in 2023.

Depth:
2 yr vet Lawrence Cager (6 games), 3 yr vet Tanner Hudson (11 games, and 6 yr vet Nick Vanetti (6 games) were the depth in 2022. In 2023 it will be two or three of 4 yr vet Lawrence Cager, Rookie 4th Rounder Theo Johnson (based on past history he is more than likely to be on the roster in 2024 and is being extolled as a great red zone target, something the Giants sorely need), and Vets Jack Stoll and Chris Manhertz who were both signed this off season and are considered good blockers. Cager better show something early, because there is real competition here and the Giants need blockers.

Some Thoughts:

In 2022, a year that many gave the Giants little chance of being competitive, the Giants out performed the averages and made the playoffs, even winning the wild card round against the Minnesota Vikings. Unfortunately, they were non-competitive in the NFCE, and while spunkily wining tight games and showing a lot of spirt their offensive production was not great. They played a harder schedule in 2023, and they were decimated by a serious injury to Andrew Thomas in the season opener, and with Daniel Jones under center for the first 6 games they just didn't look very look like a very good team. Jones went out for the season in game six and with Tyrod Taylor injured they sent out rookie Danny Devito to replace Jones and he looked like he wasn't allowed to do much when he was handed the reins.

Surprisingly, the Giants got six wins, 3 out of DeVito and 3 out of Taylor after DeVito was pulled in the first Eagles game of the season where he looked over matched and overwhelmed. It was a true testament to the fighting spirit instilled by Head Coach Brian Daboll that this team, led by two back up quarterbacks, managed to fight and scrap and win some games they probably shouldn't have. On the one hand it cost them a shot at one of the first three Qbs drafted in 2024, but on the other this team, largely shaped now by this new front office and coaching staff, very young, loaded with rookies who are playing early and often, can not be counted out just yet.

No matter what your feelings about the QB may be, and we all know that subject has gone off the rails in the past three years, there is no doubt that this team is burgeoning with real talent and it is talent that is developing. personally I really like the first, second, fourth and fifth picks in this years draft. I think the 4 of those guys will have an impact, and I have hopes for the third round pick at nickel CB (for on picks 2 and 3 with the next installment).

You have to be excited at the burgeoning talent at WR. You have to be at least paying attention that the Giants are doing something about the Oline and that it has gotten younger and a seen huge amount of turnover. You have to be excited at the possibility that the New Orlean Saints running back room might be coming to Giants Stadium, and there is meat and potatoes on the bone at TE.

I have no idea how well the Giants will do this year, but baring injuries, and we have a new Strength and Conditioning program this year, you have to expect that this Offense is going to do everything they can to show up, play and try to be competitive. There are numerous young potential stars to take note of, and therefore many reasons to want to watch them play.





Intensive purposes?  
robbieballs2003 : 5/22/2024 1:29 pm : link
😂😂😂
Man I'm trying to get to a place  
Dnew15 : 5/22/2024 1:36 pm : link
where I can be as optimistic as you are about this offense...but I'm struggling.

I just don't see it.
Nice thread....  
George from PA : 5/22/2024 1:51 pm : link
QB....Jones cap makes it less than a wash

RB....I feel RBBC is better for Daboll scheme.....Eventhough, Barkley is the best of the options.

TE.....Waller is retired?

WR....exciting

OL....at this point, we need prayer
Agree with some of this  
Mike from Ohio : 5/22/2024 1:56 pm : link
and there are some things to be excited about. But this is an overly rosey assessment of this team that seems to assume most unknowns will turn out positive.

I am not sure what you mean by the New Orleans Saints RB room coming to the Giants. Any outlook that assumes Tracey becomes Alvin Kamara because they have the same RB coach is the definition of unbridled optimism, not a realistic assessment.

Nobody in the Giants "running back room" is anywhere close to being Alvin Kamara. That is borderline silly.
RE: Man I'm trying to get to a place  
gersh : 5/22/2024 1:57 pm : link
In comment 16522233 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
where I can be as optimistic as you are about this offense...but I'm struggling.

I just don't see it.


If the OL is much improved (as it should be)
And we have a QB who can play (not sure about that one)
Then we should be much better
That said, we were epically bad last season, so improvement is a very low bar.
RE: Agree with some of this  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/22/2024 2:29 pm : link
In comment 16522248 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
and there are some things to be excited about. But this is an overly rosey assessment of this team that seems to assume most unknowns will turn out positive.

I am not sure what you mean by the New Orleans Saints RB room coming to the Giants. Any outlook that assumes Tracey becomes Alvin Kamara because they have the same RB coach is the definition of unbridled optimism, not a realistic assessment.

Nobody in the Giants "running back room" is anywhere close to being Alvin Kamara. That is borderline silly.


maybe read what I wrote?

I compared Tracey's physical attributes to Kamara's - and wondered if the running back coach from the saints could do the same thing with Tracey that he did with Kamara -- come now this isn't as an idea as far fetched as you are making it out to be

RE: Nice thread....  
BillT : 5/22/2024 2:45 pm : link
In comment 16522243 George from PA said:
Quote:


OL....at this point, we need prayer

A bit over dramatic for a line that has added draft picks from rounds 1, 2, 3, 5 and a couple of staring level FAs and some backups. No guarantees but no one has those. Best talent in a decade.
Great post  
knowledgetimmons : 5/22/2024 4:16 pm : link
it's amazing to see people use hyperbole to change any marginally positive or optimistic outlook into something like "overly rosy".
RE: RE: Agree with some of this  
Mike from Ohio : 5/22/2024 4:46 pm : link
In comment 16522281 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 16522248 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


and there are some things to be excited about. But this is an overly rosey assessment of this team that seems to assume most unknowns will turn out positive.

I am not sure what you mean by the New Orleans Saints RB room coming to the Giants. Any outlook that assumes Tracey becomes Alvin Kamara because they have the same RB coach is the definition of unbridled optimism, not a realistic assessment.

Nobody in the Giants "running back room" is anywhere close to being Alvin Kamara. That is borderline silly.



maybe read what I wrote?

I compared Tracey's physical attributes to Kamara's - and wondered if the running back coach from the saints could do the same thing with Tracey that he did with Kamara -- come now this isn't as an idea as far fetched as you are making it out to be


We disagree. I think projecting a 5th round player becoming one of the top backs in the league based primarily on having the same coach is a very extreme long shot.

Recent history suggests there is about a 5% - 10% chance Tracey becomes a useful starter based on where he was drafted. Suggesting that he may just turn out to be a player who is 2 time All-Pro and 5 time pro-bowler is just unconstrained optimism.
RE: Great post  
Mike from Ohio : 5/22/2024 4:48 pm : link
In comment 16522400 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
it's amazing to see people use hyperbole to change any marginally positive or optimistic outlook into something like "overly rosy".


"Overly rosey" is hyperbole? I don't think you know what the word hyperbole means. That is why you posted the dumbest thing ever in the course of human history.

Now there is some hyperbole for you to go uncover.
Well presented and readable thread. There is no reason not to  
Marty in Albany : 5/22/2024 5:10 pm : link
feel optimistic about the new players at this time of year.

IMHO we need two important things to happen.
1. OT Andrew Thomas needs to stay healthy.
2. OT Evan Neal needs to get healthy (he hasn't been healthy for most of his career) and must develop into a reasonable facsimile of how he played in college. He does not have to be all-pro, just not a turnstile.

If this happens, we have a reasonable chance to have a consistent line. We don't have to be great, we just have to be consistent and allow the QB and offense to find a rhythm.



RE: Intensive purposes?  
Jack Stroud : 5/22/2024 6:17 pm : link
In comment 16522225 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
😂😂😂
All of that, and this is what you came away with?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/22/2024 7:08 pm : link
To me, it all boils down to the OL & QB. & I'm much more optimistic about the former taking a massive jump than the latter. I hope/think this new OL coach can make the line competent. As for the latter, I have no confidence in the current presumed starter. Perhaps he'll prove me wrong if the OL is solid/WR corp can live up to potential...TBD.
While I am optimistic  
Rudy5757 : 5/22/2024 10:31 pm : link
The biggest concern I have with this coaching staff is lack of development. Players haven’t really progressed from season to season or even from Game 1 to game 17.

The OL and WRs should be much improved. I am expecting an OBJ type from Nabers. High expectations yes and the rest of the WRs will benefit greatly.

Tracy at RB is going to be heavily involved in the passing game IMO.

I hope Robinson can stay healthy. I just think he is too small for a long NFL career. He’s also a body catcher. I hope Hyatt is more than just a deep threat. If Slayton is our #4 that is ideal.

I am looking at a big season from the O and we should start 2-0 with our schedule which should propel this team like it did in 2022.
Gidiefor: Your analysis is a tad optimistic but better than reading  
Ivan15 : 5/23/2024 12:05 am : link
Some “doom and gloom” or “the sky is falling” analysis.

Sobering thoughts: Looking back, I don’t think Taylor is more injury prone than Jones. He just has been doing it longer. Who would have had more success this year, Jones or Taylor? We don’t know but I would have liked to have seen Taylor throwing to Nabers and the rest.

Without looking at stats, my recollection is that Barkley had a great first season but digressed each year thereafter. After his first season, he had fewer and fewer chunk plays each year.
I like the Alvin Kamara comparison  
Blue Dog : 5/23/2024 6:18 am : link
and one note to add: the Giants new RB coach had been Kamara's QB coach his entire NFL career up until now. Ideal coach for him in what will be only his third year as a RB.

Carmen Bricillo  
section125 : 5/23/2024 7:39 am : link
may be the most important offseason acquisition this year.
RE: Carmen Bricillo  
Dnew15 : 5/23/2024 8:00 am : link
In comment 16522802 section125 said:
Quote:
may be the most important offseason acquisition this year.


I hope your right.

Maybe he can do what:

Bobby Johnson
Rob Sale
Marc Columbo
Dave Deguglielmo
Hal Hunter
Mike Solari

Couldn't
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