I’m reading many predicting 4-5 wins. That is totally illogical.
We won 6 last year…6 with all the Injuries we had. We could have won 8 if we even had a healthy kicker. See the Jets and Rams games. Think about that….8 wins or 9 if you include the Bills game…..
Yet look at the cards dealt to us:
- playing with 3 QBs;
- no Andrew Thomas for 5-6 games.;
- the worst OL by far last year giving up a million sacks;
- not to mention the trading away of a great DT, Leonard Williams, which led to teams running wild against us after his departure.
-And don’t forget how difficult the schedule was for us.
So from the last game until now, don’t you think we have improved considerably? I do- many “wise so called experts” are praising us for our draft picks and even our free agency transactions which of course includes the great BBurns. Not to mention all the coaching changes, which I think many of us agree, are upgrades and should coach up our players better.
So how do you forecast 4-5 wins after all of this? How can you forecast us doing worse than last year?
Too many Debbie Downers on this site. Go Big Blue!
favored 3 games
even in 1 game
underdog +3 or less in 2 games
underdog +3 to +6 in 8 games
underdog +6 or more in 3 games
If you go by the line, 6 games is what the numbers are saying that NY will probably win.
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There is give and take, but this is my rough estimate
NFC EAST (2-4)
Commanders x2
Cowboys x2
Eagles x2
NFC SOUTH (3-1)
Panthers
Bucs
Saints
Falcons
NFC NORTH (2-2)
Browns
Bengals
Steelers
Ravens
Outsiders (1-2)
Vikings
Seahawks
Colts
One of the more reasonable predictions. Yeah maybe we go 1-2 against the AFC North but we can potentially go 2-1 against the last group. Its not anything to do with being overly optimistic. More to the fact that we can compete against some of these team and so much can happen between now and the games.
There is a lot of ifs so I am tempering my hopes, but 8 seems reasonbly attainable. I think we can ever be better than that, but I learned my lesson and wait til I see it.
I also think we more critical on our own team and don't do the same critiques on the competition.
NFC South does not have elite QBs
AFC North is a little overated, they had soft competition last year, so their records were high, Steelers QB not great, Browns QB not great, and Burrow is coming a relative serious surgery on on his wrist
And our outsiders are not powerhouses, the Viking we get week 1 with a rookie or Darnold.
We need to stay healthy, line needs to be average, some of the young players need to take a step up, Nabers be legit. There plenty of ifs and they need to prove it, but a lot of this is reasonably possible.
I know some here will just bitch about DJ and they have plenty of evidence, but looking at our opponents there a lot of QBs that can be had just as easily using that as the barometer. Most are either young QBs who have not proven it either or a QB with past injuries or some QB who was the Daniel Jones of their first team.
This statement is almost meaningless.
Last 10 years = 3 GMs and 4 Head coaches, too many coordinators and position coaches to count, and completly different rosters.
I think we all know we have sucked but every shit team starts winning before they become a a great team. This regime had a great year 1 and a terrible year 2. You should learn how detrimental resetting clocks can be devesating, and hope this regime gets thing going on the right direction or be prepared for another 10 years. Every regime makes mistakes but the good ones gives themselves outs and pivot correctly. You can hate the QB situation but that does not mean the team is not being rebuilt and getting better overall.
Nabors/WdR/JH/etc are as good as we’ve had in, forever - make them make plays. Saquan is going to be missed but let’s face it, he was not inadequate in protection and short yardage situations. Maybe Tracy is the guy, maybe Gray is the guy, if not, Singletary is gonna ball as a professional. I just don’t see a large enough drop-off to believe RB affects what DJ can/will do.
OL must be better this year. Loads better. Bricillo must be as advertised and Tierney/Kafka must step up. Assuming reasonable health, DJ shouldn’t have any excuses this year and neither should the staff. DJ is good… better than good, but needs time to go thru progressions and make plays. I believe that he will.
REGARDLESS of the O, 40-60yo Big Blue fans remember how the GMen D-Fence once dominated. Sure the game is different now but who wouldn’t give their left nut for a D that dominates our division foes like we did in our Super Bowl years? Burns, Tibs, Dex, Okereke, Banks, etc/etc is a good start but others must step up.
I see +30 point differential (370/340) with 8 wins minimum, 10 wins max - let’s get it. Also... Eric in Li info rules/Terps info drools.
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I also think we more critical on our own team and don't do the same critiques on the competition.
NFC South does not have elite QBs
AFC North is a little overated, they had soft competition last year,
IMO it’s exactly opposite and the creation and comments made by the OP on this thread highlights this along with the comments you make above.
IMO there is an obvious tendency for many Giants fans on here to overrate their team's overall talent while unjustifiably knocking the opposing team's talent just as you have done.There is a certain badge of honor some probably feel by fighting the naysayers.As a rabid fan, you don't have to be fair.
They can get to 8 wins but they are also a team that can go much lower which if I were to bet it would be in the range as last year because of our QB being injury prone. So, it would be in 6-7 range with 5 or 8 as shots.
No thanks on Vrabel. It would be a terrible missed opportunity with Daboll if he gets fired and only had Jones to work with. He is an alleged QB whisperer. We should make sure he gets at least one young, high-ceiling QB to mold into his offense.
They had an opportunity to give him someone else. Apparently he's only a "QB whisperer" to an exceptionally limited number of QBs, and none of the three QBs sitting there at #6 were on that list.
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In comment 16523427 Bruner4329 said:
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I also think we more critical on our own team and don't do the same critiques on the competition.
NFC South does not have elite QBs
AFC North is a little overated, they had soft competition last year,
IMO it’s exactly opposite and the creation and comments made by the OP on this thread highlights this along with the comments you make above.
IMO there is an obvious tendency for many Giants fans on here to overrate their team's overall talent while unjustifiably knocking the opposing team's talent just as you have done.There is a certain badge of honor some probably feel by fighting the naysayers.As a rabid fan, you don't have to be fair.
They can get to 8 wins but they are also a team that can go much lower which if I were to bet it would be in the range as last year because of our QB being injury prone. So, it would be in 6-7 range with 5 or 8 as shots.
The question that I was determining was 8 possible, so I was agreeing that 8 is possible. That does not mean I do not think 2 wins is also possible. We still have very limited depth. Our QB situation is terrible. We have as new defensive scheme and our secondary is complete question marks as a whole. I also said in my post that there were a lot of "if's"
The OP's post was looking at positives so I was sticking to that theme. I was saying you can look at almost every NFL team an pick them apart as much as the naysayers pick apart the Giants. We are not the only team with a lot of question marks.
I personally think the real question is do you trust this regime?
It is fair for naysayers not feel trust with the DJ contract, not drafting a QB if you think they were worth drafting, and Evan Neal/the OL in general being competent being the biggest issues.
It is also fair for the Giants faithful. JS has been savvy getting players added to the roster that have been improvements or over-performed their original expectations like Pinnock, Okereke, and Hodgins. If you like the Daboll hiring as a coach with the belief he knows QB's, then you have to trust the fact that he did not like the QBs that we did not draft. Overall I think the faithful believe we are going in right direction and still correcting the hole that Gettleman dug us into. He ruined this team in his 4 years, and we are only going into year three of repair and 1 of those years we got to the playoffs.
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.
This statement is almost meaningless.
Last 10 years = 3 GMs and 4 Head coaches, too many coordinators and position coaches to count, and completly different rosters.
I think we all know we have sucked but every shit team starts winning before they become a a great team. This regime had a great year 1 and a terrible year 2. You should learn how detrimental resetting clocks can be devesating, and hope this regime gets thing going on the right direction or be prepared for another 10 years. Every regime makes mistakes but the good ones gives themselves outs and pivot correctly. You can hate the QB situation but that does not mean the team is not being rebuilt and getting better overall.
It is not meaningless. A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
By all means give Schoen and Daboll a chance to fix it. They've had two years so far. One successful year followed by the same misery thats haunted this team for 10 years. After year 1 of Joe Judge and year 1 of Shurmur most people said the same thing: team is trending up and doing the right things, give it time.
This pattern has not been broken yet.
A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
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A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Fans have been projecting this team to "trend better" in the offseason for years. Each year many love the free agent acquisitions and the draft and expect the team will improve.
2022 was an unexpected surprise. 2023 was a disappointment by all standards. Not sure what "trend" you see that you expect to continue, or why an average win % of those two years is somehow predictive when no team in the league - including the Giants - are on some predictable trend line.
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In comment 16523828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Fans have been projecting this team to "trend better" in the offseason for years. Each year many love the free agent acquisitions and the draft and expect the team will improve.
2022 was an unexpected surprise. 2023 was a disappointment by all standards. Not sure what "trend" you see that you expect to continue, or why an average win % of those two years is somehow predictive when no team in the league - including the Giants - are on some predictable trend line.
try re-reading mike, nothing ive said is "prediction". you want to lower your expectations or be pessimistic out those are perfectly fine personal choices you can make.
just because the giants have sucked for a decade+ it shouldnt mean the expectations are lowered than for any other regime in year 3.
Thats not very hard to replace. And lets not act like he was some awesome run defender either. He made some tackles. But so did Love and other players from our past.
For me the fear is not that McKinney was so good. It is more that Dane Belton is SO BAD! He could sink the season all by himself. He's below average at coverage (although he does have good hands for the INT), and an absolute joke at tackling. That man couldn't bring down a lady bug if you gave him a running start and three tries....
The Giants 2024 record is not an equation to be solved. And whether someone is optimistic (like you are) or pessimistic (like I am) is not something to get so stressed about.
Sorry to upset you, man. Thought you were interested in a discussion, not a pat on the head. My bad.
Serious question.
Serious question.
You are right. Joe Judge massive success leaving the Giants hs been unmatched.
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In the abstract 3 years of drafts, 3 years of experience, 3 years of veteran acquisition/retention -- should lead to success.
I am not sure I agree 3 years of Schoen's drafts, 3 years of Daboll at HC, and 3 years of Schoen's veteran acquisitions/retentions -- will produce 8+ wins.
on both of these comments we are in 100% agreement, and i was not looking to imply more than that.
i understand why vegas isnt putting the o/u at 8.0, but that doesnt mean we should lower our standards of what should be expected of this regime in year 3. either they show me something in the next 6-8 months or id be calling belichick or vrabel.
I agree with this.
If I'm the owner my expectation is 10 wins, split with Philly and Dallas, and go to the playoffs. Anything less and everyone can go find a new job. This is their shot. This is the team they wanted to build.
That's an expectation of what SHOULD happen. An expectation of what WILL happen (more of the same bad football, 5-8 wins) can be quite different.
The Giants 2024 record is not an equation to be solved. And whether someone is optimistic (like you are) or pessimistic (like I am) is not something to get so stressed about.
Sorry to upset you, man. Thought you were interested in a discussion, not a pat on the head. My bad.
the only thing upsetting is your inability to understand that different words mean different things. for example i expected you to reply with something stupid, but wouldn't have predicted anything as stupid as pretending 2 different words mean the same thing. so it appears we are both victims of setting low expectations.
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In comment 16523214 christian said:
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In the abstract 3 years of drafts, 3 years of experience, 3 years of veteran acquisition/retention -- should lead to success.
I am not sure I agree 3 years of Schoen's drafts, 3 years of Daboll at HC, and 3 years of Schoen's veteran acquisitions/retentions -- will produce 8+ wins.
on both of these comments we are in 100% agreement, and i was not looking to imply more than that.
i understand why vegas isnt putting the o/u at 8.0, but that doesnt mean we should lower our standards of what should be expected of this regime in year 3. either they show me something in the next 6-8 months or id be calling belichick or vrabel.
I agree with this.
If I'm the owner my expectation is 10 wins, split with Philly and Dallas, and go to the playoffs. Anything less and everyone can go find a new job. This is their shot. This is the team they wanted to build.
That's an expectation of what SHOULD happen. An expectation of what WILL happen (more of the same bad football, 5-8 wins) can be quite different.
how bad is it for your brand if Mike accuses you of being an angry upset stressed optimist for agreeing with me?
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Of course the Giants 2024 record is a prediction. You are trying to estimate a future outcome with a myriad of variables in play. Why so angry about that word?
The Giants 2024 record is not an equation to be solved. And whether someone is optimistic (like you are) or pessimistic (like I am) is not something to get so stressed about.
Sorry to upset you, man. Thought you were interested in a discussion, not a pat on the head. My bad.
the only thing upsetting is your inability to understand that different words mean different things. for example i expected you to reply with something stupid, but wouldn't have predicted anything as stupid as pretending 2 different words mean the same thing. so it appears we are both victims of setting low expectations.
You are one angry dude, Eric. Hope you enjoy the long weekend.
I have no interest in discussing it further with you. I questioned something you said and you responded with insults instead of dialog. That's the type of person I usually avoid.
I'm not telling you how to live your life or post on this board. I just don't have any interest in exchanging any more words with someone with your posting style. Not a big deal. I doubt you will miss me.
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it doesnt seem like anyone else in this thread is having trouble understanding the definitions of 2 different words Mike, so maybe take a little PTO from your side gig as message board diagnostician?
I have no interest in discussing it further with you. I questioned something you said and you responded with insults instead of dialog. That's the type of person I usually avoid.
I'm not telling you how to live your life or post on this board. I just don't have any interest in exchanging any more words with someone with your posting style. Not a big deal. I doubt you will miss me.
all fine with me but id suggest you re-read the exchange you jumped into. i was on the subject at hand until you decided to play dr melfi in your reply to the bold below. still not quite sure where you saw anger in this reply, but if this triggered you i agree maybe our styles just dont fit.
In comment 16523885 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16523850 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16523828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Fans have been projecting this team to "trend better" in the offseason for years. Each year many love the free agent acquisitions and the draft and expect the team will improve.
2022 was an unexpected surprise. 2023 was a disappointment by all standards. Not sure what "trend" you see that you expect to continue, or why an average win % of those two years is somehow predictive when no team in the league - including the Giants - are on some predictable trend line.
try re-reading mike, nothing ive said is "prediction". you want to lower your expectations or be pessimistic out those are perfectly fine personal choices you can make.
just because the giants have sucked for a decade+ it shouldnt mean the expectations are lowered than for any other regime in year 3.
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A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
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In comment 16523828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
i dont think the quote was "you are what your record is minus 8 weeks".
if you believe this regime is a .370 winning%, would you have have fired daboll or schoen or both this past offseason?
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In comment 16523850 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16523828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
i dont think the quote was "you are what your record is minus 8 weeks".
if you believe this regime is a .370 winning%, would you have have fired daboll or schoen or both this past offseason?
I would have fired them and hired either Belichick or Vrabel. That would have been less about Schoen's/Daboll's performance and more about my belief that Belichick or Vrabel would represent a significant upgrade. It's rare to have the opportunity to add a coach of their quality and it shouldn't be passed up.
And, I wouldn’t be surprised that all the guys here who mocked this thread probably said the exact things then (before 2022 season) that they said here today. And It wouldn’t surprise to know this- all the Debbie Downers predicting 6 or less wins are probably all or mostly Jones haters.
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In comment 16523850 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16523828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
i dont think the quote was "you are what your record is minus 8 weeks".
if you believe this regime is a .370 winning%, would you have have fired daboll or schoen or both this past offseason?
You want to talk about trends and there is a clear and sustained downward trend since week 9 2022.
Would I have fired them this off season? No, though there are some who did suggest it. Another.370 season and yes I would. Which that's almost exactly what Vegas has them pegged at.
Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
i dont think the quote was "you are what your record is minus 8 weeks".
if you believe this regime is a .370 winning%, would you have have fired daboll or schoen or both this past offseason?
You want to talk about trends and there is a clear and sustained downward trend since week 9 2022.
Would I have fired them this off season? No, though there are some who did suggest it. Another.370 season and yes I would. Which that's almost exactly what Vegas has them pegged at.
i think the only trend reference i've mentioned on this thread is that by year 3 the trend SHOULD be up (not that it is or isnt). that is a general comment id make about pretty much any regime in year 3 in most circumstances. more time + more resources should = better results.
which is why i agree with you that if they dont get that job done id be looking at new coaches in the offseason. apparently we just have different base expectations since you don't count 8 weeks while im i guess more traditional in my interpretation of "you are what your record is" without qualifiers.
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In comment 16524005 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16523850 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16523828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
i dont think the quote was "you are what your record is minus 8 weeks".
if you believe this regime is a .370 winning%, would you have have fired daboll or schoen or both this past offseason?
I would have fired them and hired either Belichick or Vrabel. That would have been less about Schoen's/Daboll's performance and more about my belief that Belichick or Vrabel would represent a significant upgrade. It's rare to have the opportunity to add a coach of their quality and it shouldn't be passed up.
I'd rather have an offensive mind and QB expert for today's game than an overall culture guy like Vrabel. I didn't see Vrabel solve any QB problems in Tennessee. In fact, he ignored young QBs, as Rivera did in Washington. No thanks to that kind of coach. What has Vrabel proven in the NFL? He can put together a very good team that punched a bit above its weight.
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In comment 16524005 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16523850 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16523828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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A pretty smart coach believed in "you are what your record says you are".
what is dabolls record (winning%) through 2 years?
how many wins does that equate to over 17 games?
is there any reason his 3rd year shouldnt be expected to trend better?
where do those answers take you?
Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
i dont think the quote was "you are what your record is minus 8 weeks".
if you believe this regime is a .370 winning%, would you have have fired daboll or schoen or both this past offseason?
You want to talk about trends and there is a clear and sustained downward trend since week 9 2022.
Would I have fired them this off season? No, though there are some who did suggest it. Another.370 season and yes I would. Which that's almost exactly what Vegas has them pegged at.
An average team with an average strength of schedule wins half its games, +/- 2-3 games a year for a typical standard deviation. How many games should the Giants have won of those 28 based on the talent on the field and the opponents they played? And why 28 instead of 36?
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Since the bye in 2022, the Giants are 10-17-1.
There's a clear inflection point in the trend of this teams performance.
i dont think the quote was "you are what your record is minus 8 weeks".
if you believe this regime is a .370 winning%, would you have have fired daboll or schoen or both this past offseason?
You want to talk about trends and there is a clear and sustained downward trend since week 9 2022.
Would I have fired them this off season? No, though there are some who did suggest it. Another.370 season and yes I would. Which that's almost exactly what Vegas has them pegged at.
i think the only trend reference i've mentioned on this thread is that by year 3 the trend SHOULD be up (not that it is or isnt). that is a general comment id make about pretty much any regime in year 3 in most circumstances. more time + more resources should = better results.
which is why i agree with you that if they dont get that job done id be looking at new coaches in the offseason. apparently we just have different base expectations since you don't count 8 weeks while im i guess more traditional in my interpretation of "you are what your record is" without qualifiers.
If a relief pitcher had a 1.00 era for the first month and then a 7 era for the next 4, are you going to throw them out there in a must win game? After all they once had a 1.00 era.
If a relief pitcher had a 1.00 era for the first month and then a 7 era for the next 4, are you going to throw them out there in a must win game? After all they once had a 1.00 era.
the proportions of your analogy are a little off.
8 games is is not 1/5 of their career here, it's more like 1/4. and they didnt have a 7 era for the 3 quarters after the first half of 2022. last year they finished 4-3 after a 2-8 start. we can call that 2nd half 4-4 to keep the math simple. or should we throw that half out too because only the bad halves fit your beliefs?
chronologically/in sum they have had:
1st half 2022 +4 above .500,
2nd half 2022 -1.5 below .500 (3-5-1 with 1 loss resting starters is not exactly a "7 era", especially since they then went 1-1 in playoffs),
1st half 2023 -5 below .500,
2nd half 2023 at .500.
it's almost like we should consider the sum of their 2 year record exactly as it is without any qualifiers, a handful of games under .500 (16-19-1 counting postseason). year 1 they stayed mostly healthy and got more good breaks than bad, especially prior to the self inflicted ATV accident/Adoree punt return. year 2 they didn't, especially when thomas and barkley were out at the same time.
tldr i believe they are what their record is, which is why i think unlike shurmur/judge, daboll deserved a 3rd year.
<snip>
tldr i believe they are what their record is, which is why i think unlike shurmur/judge, daboll deserved a 3rd year.
Excellent post.
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If a relief pitcher had a 1.00 era for the first month and then a 7 era for the next 4, are you going to throw them out there in a must win game? After all they once had a 1.00 era.
the proportions of your analogy are a little off.
8 games is is not 1/5 of their career here, it's more like 1/4. and they didnt have a 7 era for the 3 quarters after the first half of 2022. last year they finished 4-3 after a 2-8 start. we can call that 2nd half 4-4 to keep the math simple. or should we throw that half out too because only the bad halves fit your beliefs?
chronologically/in sum they have had:
1st half 2022 +4 above .500,
2nd half 2022 -1.5 below .500 (3-5-1 with 1 loss resting starters is not exactly a "7 era", especially since they then went 1-1 in playoffs),
1st half 2023 -5 below .500,
2nd half 2023 at .500.
it's almost like we should consider the sum of their 2 year record exactly as it is without any qualifiers, a handful of games under .500 (16-19-1 counting postseason). year 1 they stayed mostly healthy and got more good breaks than bad, especially prior to the self inflicted ATV accident/Adoree punt return. year 2 they didn't, especially when thomas and barkley were out at the same time.
tldr i believe they are what their record is, which is why i think unlike shurmur/judge, daboll deserved a 3rd year.
I agree they are what they're record says they are, but with a downward trend. I full expect a 5 win or less team this year, again Bec they've been trending down
Anyone trying to convince themselves of the opposite is kidding themselves.
Anyone trying to convince themselves of the opposite is kidding themselves.
let's say we agree on that, what should the EXPECTATION be for whoever is coach in their 3rd year assuming they've been able to continue adding to the roster all 3 years?
should they be EXPECTED to improve?
or should the expectation be bottom dweller forever because they've been a bottom dweller?
if they don't improve should daboll come back for a 4th year just because they've been a bottom dweller for a decade?
I can expect a 3-year-old roof not to leak. I can also expect my living room to get flooded during the next storm, because it has 1 of the 2 last seasons.
In the abstract, I think a regime should have a team competing for the division in year 3. I don't think the Giants will.
My guess is the quarterback play and running game are near the league bottom and the fatal flaws for the team.
I can expect a 3-year-old roof not to leak. I can also expect my living room to get flooded during the next storm, because it has 1 of the 2 last seasons.
In the abstract, I think a regime should have a team competing for the division in year 3. I don't think the Giants will.
My guess is the quarterback play and running game are near the league bottom and the fatal flaws for the team.
if your 3 year old roof leaks my guess is you are finding a new roofing guy to fix it next time.
These are all the coaches hired in the 5-year period 2018-2022. Green is still HC, red is fired, yellow is retired.
The average win total in year 3 for a coach to get a year 4 is 10. No coach in that period got a year 4 with fewer than 7 wins. Saleh and Stefanski did so with 7-win campaigns and with their QB missing significant time.
Statistically Daboll gets fired with a healthy Jones and 7 wins next year. This is why I would prefer 4 wins to 7. If they are both going down, at least leave the next guy in a position to pick a new QB.
These are all the coaches hired in the 5-year period 2018-2022. Green is still HC, red is fired, yellow is retired.
The average win total in year 3 for a coach to get a year 4 is 10. No coach in that period got a year 4 with fewer than 7 wins. Saleh and Stefanski did so with 7-win campaigns and with their QB missing significant time.
Statistically Daboll gets fired with a healthy Jones and 7 wins next year. This is why I would prefer 4 wins to 7. If they are both going down, at least leave the next guy in a position to pick a new QB.
this is great info that probably deserves its own thread.
when we've talked about this before saleh is the only coach i could think of who got the 4th year (and i think that was a mistake, even if jets have a good year i think he will hold them back and possibly waste a good year with a bad coach). stefanski had done more with less and his 7 win year had watson's suspension, so i think that was the right call (and he has proven that to be the case winning 11).
re Daboll, maybe we are rorschach testing ourselves but as ive said before i think any season that isn't progressive probably gets him fired. i think a progressive season is probably playoffs but certainly at least 8 or 9 wins.
i dont think you need to worry about jones piggybacking to a new coach. if there is regime change the decision is on that new coach, who will also probably have another top 10 pick and chance to get themselves their own rookie qb.
if they need a new coach id contribute to a go fund me for belichick just so we can altogether enjoy threads speculating on mara sock puppeting belichick.
No offence Christian but what an effing loser's mentality.
and maybe a cumulative year 1 + year 2 column? or you could do cumulative win% in years 1 + 2 and sort on that. that would be interesting "power ranking" of the decisions each org had at the time.
the craziest thing on that chart is reich and vrabel having gotten fired. being a hc is a shitty gig.
No offence Christian but what an effing loser's mentality.
You're boring.
and maybe a cumulative year 1 + year 2 column? or you could do cumulative win% in years 1 + 2 and sort on that. that would be interesting "power ranking" of the decisions each org had at the time.
the craziest thing on that chart is reich and vrabel having gotten fired. being a hc is a shitty gig.
Good suggestions. I'll start a new thread and make some adjustments.