Kayvon Thibodeaux comment about cohesion on the DL

It sounds like we are going to a 4 man front this year which means our edge guys have much different responsibilities.

But between the soft pre-season making the team look unprepared for week 1, the continued mess at Oline coach, and this kind of stuff, I am not sure he is a very good administrator.

His first season was an absolute success, but last year was a mess. For me, the jury is still very much out on whether the Giants have found their long-term coach or not.

That the problems with Wink and Daboll started with the X’s and O’s.

It’s a lot easier to work with people you don’t particularly like when things are working. When they aren’t, suddenly the personality differences become personality clashes.

Last year was a mess. He's certainly not the sort that seemed open to anything other than his own ideas. And behind set in his ways. He's gone. Maybe we can finally get our next Spags. Maybe not. But he definitely needed to be gone.

In comment 16523768 Mike from Ohio said:

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But between the soft pre-season making the team look unprepared for week 1, the continued mess at Oline coach, and this kind of stuff, I am not sure he is a very good administrator. His first season was an absolute success, but last year was a mess. For me, the jury is still very much out on whether the Giants have found their long-term coach or not.

As someone who likes Daboll, this is very fair.

This came up in Daboll's press conference as well. Given how much Wink used an edge player as the third lineman, that's a strange nugget of information.

was Wink's right hand man.

I'm looking forward to a new defensive style personally.

Out with the old.

the defense wasn't effective last year. I was excited by Wink as anyone, but the stats speak for themselves.

...the head coach will get a little pissed.

In comment 16523766 robbieballs2003 said:

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It sounds like we are going to a 4 man front this year which means our edge guys have much different responsibilities.

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Right Robbie.The defense will align much more like the majority of the league. I will be happy to never see a 2-man rush, except in a Hail Mary defense.

In comment 16523785 SirLoinOfBeef said:

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was Wink's right hand man. I'm looking forward to a new defensive style personally. Out with the old.

Was Wilkins actually good at his job? Or was he good at being a lackey?

In comment 16523832 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16523785 SirLoinOfBeef said: Quote: was Wink's right hand man. I'm looking forward to a new defensive style personally. Out with the old. Was Wilkins actually good at his job? Or was he good at being a lackey?

All facts point to lackey. The guy never even played football in college.

In comment 16523768 Mike from Ohio said:

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But between the soft pre-season making the team look unprepared for week 1, the continued mess at Oline coach, and this kind of stuff, I am not sure he is a very good administrator. His first season was an absolute success, but last year was a mess. For me, the jury is still very much out on whether the Giants have found their long-term coach or not.

It's a fair observation, but can we dig a little into scope of term 'administrator' in the head coach context. Is he inattentive to what is succeeding or not and why on the OL and D? That would be bad administration. Is he allowing too much reign to the (former) coaches in those areas, yet that's what a good admin'r is supposed to do, no?, letting your handpicked coordinators/position coaches do their job.

Or, as a first time HC--personality issues with Wink aside--is he learning d on the job and how he would like it to work? Certainly Bowen is a different animal. Where I think the criticism is really fair is on the OL because that has to be in Daboll's core bailiwick to make the timing work in the pass game especially. Bobby Johnson did not exactly excel in his career prior to his hire by Daboll: he moved around as position coach a good bit, Daboll brought him along mainly for familiarity. Did Daboll not set a high enough standard in '22, did relative success in the quick passing game that year obscure what Daboll should have been able to see? Too much on his plate as first year HC (and the focus on Kafka and Tierney) to see?

Even though the source(s) is suspect, the leaks about dysfunction between Kafka and Daboll--elevation of title of the former to paper some things over?--is a real concern.

In comment 16523766 robbieballs2003 said:

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It sounds like we are going to a 4 man front this year which means our edge guys have much different responsibilities.

Yup. IIRC that's what Patterson did in MIN - he coached the DTs and the DEs. I particularly remember a story of what he did for Danielle Hunter. He really unlocked Dexter's game. Imagine if he can do the same for Thibs and Burns - who still has plenty of untapped potential.

He did not coach to his reputation.

The stats show that.

I liked the Wink hiring. But glad to see him go.

Ravens let him go for a reason.

works with Kayvon Thibodeaux and Brian Burns. Thibodaux can learn better technique through Coach Patterson. I expect Thibodaux‘s game to elevate more this year.

You are hitting on exactly what my point was. As a HC the job is about much more than Xs and Os and motivation. I think he is good at those things.

Does he hire the right people to work under him? Does he get the most out of those people? Is everyone working toward collective goals or individual goals?

I don't blame him for the Wink stuff specifically because that seemed to be mostly a Wink thing, but there are enough other question marks to make me want to see a drama-free season to feel better about him.

In comment 16523768 Mike from Ohio said:

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But between the soft pre-season making the team look unprepared for week 1, the continued mess at Oline coach, and this kind of stuff, I am not sure he is a very good administrator. His first season was an absolute success, but last year was a mess. For me, the jury is still very much out on whether the Giants have found their long-term coach or not.

Valid points on the soft preseason and some of his coaching choices, but I think many overlook the job Dabs did last year. He had an UDFA QB with zero practice reps making 6 starts, and he won 6 games. Considering the QB situation and the myriad of injuries, getting 6 wins out of that crew was borderline miraculous.

This might be among this season's biggest "addition by subtraction" changes.

Indeed it was. But the defense had no excuses, and good offenses mostly manhandled them. They bailed themselves out with turnovers; while I think that's more than luck, it's tough to make it a repeatable formula. I feel like the D functioned as well as the sum of its parts, and no better.

I don't read too too much into Thibs statement, nor discount it. With benefit of hindsight it seems likely communication wasn't the defenses strong suit. A coaching change that emphasizes communication, and - as Bowen already said -- violence (rather than deception) could make a big difference even without talent uprades.

In comment 16523832 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16523785 SirLoinOfBeef said: Quote: was Wink's right hand man. I'm looking forward to a new defensive style personally. Out with the old. Was Wilkins actually good at his job? Or was he good at being a lackey?

I wonder the same thing about gidiefor.

I keed, I keed.

As Bobby Skinner has recently observed, new DC Shane Bowen's defense is based on a Wide-Nine front four (with a scant sprinkling of 5 man blitzes). Kayvon Thibodeaux & Brian Burns are going to thrive at the edges. It's gonna be a dog fight to see who starts at DT, next to Dex.

The pressure's gonna be on the two who will play along-side Okereke; I project McFadden (and hope Simmons can finally show why he was drafted so high).

I'm delighted to see a lot more of "Dre" Patterson so much more involved all over the place, last year's team tackling performance was just as bad as O-lines' pathetic and embarrassing production.

In comment 16523766 robbieballs2003 said:

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It sounds like we are going to a 4 man front this year which means our edge guys have much different responsibilities.

This.... Bowen runs more of a 4-2-5 DEF

Cohesion is nice. Patterson is someone I'd trust to get them better be it with technique or hand usage.

Now, the OL on the other hand... that is one group that needs clarity. Daboll cannot wait until Week 1 like last year to find a starting five.