They both said how good he and the offense looked last year in training camp when you could not hit the QB and how it all fell apart under live bullets.
This is because the weakness of an offensive line is only fully revealed in live action.
An interesting thought is that it seems like there could be some reason for hope if the line gets good enough to make the real game protection more like practice and the QB is not fearing for his life.
I know, it will never ne the same, but hopefully its better.
Starting OL v SF
Ezedu Lemueix Bredeson McKethan Neal
No Barkley, no Wandale, Waller injured. Short practice week.
We needed DJ to step up that week and will the team forward and he failed.
Shame on him.
The difference between camp and games isn’t necessarily the “live bullets”, it’s that in camp, you KNOW the guns have no bullets. So is pressure the problem, or is it the potential for pressure?
Not to mention, Jones looked awful in the first joint practice against the Lions. Then he looked sharp in 7-on-7 drills the next day, but again, any QB better look good in 7-on-7’s.
Is that the mark of a good QB? How many HOFers have that profile?
Is that the mark of a good QB? How many HOFers have that profile?
He needs to be a better PRODUCER.
Shame on him.
If only we had other games to look at
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against the best team in the NFC without his starting LT, his best RB, ad his two best targets receivers.
Shame on him.
If only we had other games to look at
Only referencing what the OP stated.
The difference between camp and games isn’t necessarily the “live bullets”, it’s that in camp, you KNOW the guns have no bullets. So is pressure the problem, or is it the potential for pressure?
Not to mention, Jones looked awful in the first joint practice against the Lions. Then he looked sharp in 7-on-7 drills the next day, but again, any QB better look good in 7-on-7’s.
That is my point. Less pressure might mean better Jones. Don't know until we see it - if we see it. Simply saying that there is a little bit of reason to think it might be so. Also correction to OL above - JMS not Bredeson.
Shame on him.
You're so right. The OP states how bad the OL was with all the replacements, and the skill players out, than blames DJ for not performing. Can't make it up.
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against the best team in the NFC without his starting LT, his best RB, ad his two best targets receivers.
Shame on him.
You're so right. The OP states how bad the OL was with all the replacements, and the skill players out, than blames DJ for not performing. Can't make it up.
Sarcastic. The fact you thought it was real shows how normal that kind of stuff is here.
The difference between camp and games isn’t necessarily the “live bullets”, it’s that in camp, you KNOW the guns have no bullets. So is pressure the problem, or is it the potential for pressure?
This is the key, and why improved Oline play may not make as big a difference for Jones as it does for other QBs. He is fine when there is no possibility of getting hit and he knows he can scan the field. It has nothing to do with his ability to make all the throws with timing and accuracy.
The problem is he can't do it quickly enough when he knows there are guys coming who are paid to hit him.
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against the best team in the NFC without his starting LT, his best RB, ad his two best targets receivers.
Shame on him.
If only we had other games to look at
Hmm, so who was his starting OL and receiver corps in Game 2?
He was already a checkdown king prior to 2023. If you don't expect your QB to do better than Jones did in 2023, regardless of the conditions, something like the 40th best starter in the NFL, I'm not sure what to tell you. That kind of play can't be in the range of possible outcomes. Jones is not an NFL starter. The Giants are the only team in the league who would treat him as an unassailable starter. They were the only team in the league who would have paid him that contract. The mismanagement is glaringly obvious.
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If a $40M QB doesn’t look good in training camp, then there is a major problem.
The difference between camp and games isn’t necessarily the “live bullets”, it’s that in camp, you KNOW the guns have no bullets. So is pressure the problem, or is it the potential for pressure?
Not to mention, Jones looked awful in the first joint practice against the Lions. Then he looked sharp in 7-on-7 drills the next day, but again, any QB better look good in 7-on-7’s.
That is my point. Less pressure might mean better Jones. Don't know until we see it - if we see it. Simply saying that there is a little bit of reason to think it might be so. Also correction to OL above - JMS not Bredeson.
But that’s not my point. My point is that it might not be the pressure, but the possibility of pressure. Using your live ammo analogy, military are apt to be much more aggressive when they know the guns have no bullets.
He’s been a check down king since his rookie year, and that includes 2022.
Shame on him.
Ha! true
It's an amazing development.
Multiple FAs on the OL.
Since the 2020 draft, the Giants have taken 5-OL and 4-WR in the 1st 3 rounds (premium picks).
But there isn't a team in the NFL that has a line that's going to prevent pressure, especially in the playoffs. Your QB has to be able to handle pressure, make the right choices under less than ideal circumstances and make plays...ESPECIALLY during the playoffs!
What we saw with Jones in 2022 is likely the best we'll see out of him. Good during the season, and great against one of the worst defenses in the playoffs. When he faced a much better defense, he had no answer. The Eagles had him figured out, and that continued into 2023.
Jones is likely a great person. But that does not win games.
The bottom line is that Jones isn't going to get you far in the playoffs, if they make the playoffs.
Head Coaches and Offensive Coordinators can only scheme up to a point. They can't make an average player great. And we've seen enough of Daniel to know what he is, and what he is not.
In comment 16524119 Milton said:
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Taylor outplayed him when the conditions were the same.
The conditions were never the same.
Stop cherry picking games and stats that fit whatever your perspective is. We have 5 years of football to watch. Both have been putrid, a nightmare version of "complimentary football" where a QB who struggles to get past his first read doesn't even have enough time to put eyes on the WR before the first pass rusher is in his face.
The OL has been comically bad. Keystone Kops bad. Fortunately Jones is right there to cue up the Benny Hill theme. I suppose we could debate how much of Jones's struggles are owed to the OL and how much are his own making but I don't really think it's relevant anymore. It might be an interesting conversation in 10 years, especially depending on how his second act plays out. But to me he looks broken and has for awhile. Neck, knee, and a completely fucked internal clock. But it was never one or the other, and the presence of a shitty OL does not absolve a QB who struggles in the pocket and is afraid to let it rip.
Thomas and Barkley absent are the same?
The one healthy, and good, defense Taylor played against this past year was the NYJ and he was 4-7, 8 yards, fumble and left hurt (like he always is).
His starts vs other defenses and their points per drive:
Buffalo 7th (had a number of defensive injuries at this point, starting 2 backup corners; still scores 9 points with SB back)
Washington 32nd
LA Rams 19th
Philadelphia 30th
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The Oline was an utter disaster early in last year. DJ had zero confidence back there and regressed to Checkdown king. I don’t know what we’ll see this year. It was such a disaster of injuries and all around funk after literally everything unraveled after that first drive. I can say the physical ability is there for him. Beyond that, we are all going to have to wait and see.
He’s been a check down king since his rookie year, and that includes 2022.
Funny how having a terrible OL and forgettable skill players causes you to check down a lot.
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Taylor outplayed him when the conditions were the same. Jones is bad and we have to deal it for one more year.
Thomas and Barkley absent are the same?
The one healthy, and good, defense Taylor played against this past year was the NYJ and he was 4-7, 8 yards, fumble and left hurt (like he always is).
His starts vs other defenses and their points per drive:
Buffalo 7th (had a number of defensive injuries at this point, starting 2 backup corners; still scores 9 points with SB back)
Washington 32nd
LA Rams 19th
Philadelphia 30th
This "with the same TEAMZ" stuff ties in nicely with "DO IT ANYWAYZ" and "its been 5 YEARZ". It all shows the same lack of football acumen.
This is cringe AF! "Regardless of the conditions..." Do you even hear how that sounds in your head? It's baffling how many people believe in this Captain America/Superman bullshit that a QB can just will their team to victory. Will is obviously important, but conditions matter. If a Formula 1 car enters a mud buggy race, it's getting left at the starting line. The driver doesn't suck, he just had the worst car possible for the race he was driving in. But you would swear up and down the driver was the worst of all time! gtfo
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The difference between camp and games isn’t necessarily the “live bullets”, it’s that in camp, you KNOW the guns have no bullets. So is pressure the problem, or is it the potential for pressure?
This is the key, and why improved Oline play may not make as big a difference for Jones as it does for other QBs. He is fine when there is no possibility of getting hit and he knows he can scan the field. It has nothing to do with his ability to make all the throws with timing and accuracy.
The problem is he can't do it quickly enough when he knows there are guys coming who are paid to hit him.
But why does that bother you?
Because $40 million could have been used to upgrade the shit roster. That makes sense.
But the giants dont draft a QB and put draft capital to upgrade the shit roster and you are mad because they didnt draft a QB.
Jones existence has never prevented the Giants from drafting a QB, except the year he played well enough to take the team to playoffs. But yes I remember, that year doesnt count because it was scheme and Jones did what any QB could do.
His contract prevented us signing a high priced Free Agent QB like 36 year old Cousins for 45milAAV/180 mil, 28 year old Minshew for 12.5 AAV/$25 mil, or Bring back Tyrod who did not do that much better and also could not stay on the field.
If you did get Minshew or Tyrod and they played as well as you expected, how well is that exactly. Probably only good enough to keep you from drafting a rookie QB that you covet.
Shouldnt you be happy that shitty DJ will tank this team and get you in draft position?
Or are you really mad at the regime for not drafting Pennix/Macarthy/Nix, which again, DJ did not prevent this from happening.
Pennix - laundry list of injuries and old rookie
McCarthy - has noted trouble throwing deep balls over LBs and under Safeties
Nix - looks as good as Sam Darnold
But even if that is what you wanted, isnt this really JS and Daboll fault and especially Tommy Devito's fault for winning too many games?
You guys really bitch a lot with ZERO logic being used.
Either be happy that you have DJ to tank the season
OR
Are you worried that DJ will be good enough that he will keep us out of drafting a QB? Which is also humorous because you think DJ is the worst QB ever.
You are in quite the conundrum. That must really angry you.
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Taylor outplayed him when the conditions were the same. Jones is bad and we have to deal it for one more year.
CONDITIONS WERE NOT THE SAME OMG WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS NONSENSE!?!?!?!?
Dude... conditions were close enough that Jones shouldn't have been outplayed by Taylor and Tommy fucking DeVito. Are you serious? Just admit you have zero expectations for your QB. You think they're fungible and interchangeable. It would save a lot of aggravation.
But why does that bother you?
Because $40 million could have been used to upgrade the shit roster. That makes sense.
But the giants dont draft a QB and put draft capital to upgrade the shit roster and you are mad because they didnt draft a QB.
Jones existence has never prevented the Giants from drafting a QB, except the year he played well enough to take the team to playoffs. But yes I remember, that year doesnt count because it was scheme and Jones did what any QB could do.
His contract prevented us signing a high priced Free Agent QB like 36 year old Cousins for 45milAAV/180 mil, 28 year old Minshew for 12.5 AAV/$25 mil, or Bring back Tyrod who did not do that much better and also could not stay on the field.
If you did get Minshew or Tyrod and they played as well as you expected, how well is that exactly. Probably only good enough to keep you from drafting a rookie QB that you covet.
Shouldnt you be happy that shitty DJ will tank this team and get you in draft position?
Or are you really mad at the regime for not drafting Pennix/Macarthy/Nix, which again, DJ did not prevent this from happening.
Pennix - laundry list of injuries and old rookie
McCarthy - has noted trouble throwing deep balls over LBs and under Safeties
Nix - looks as good as Sam Darnold
But even if that is what you wanted, isnt this really JS and Daboll fault and especially Tommy Devito's fault for winning too many games?
You guys really bitch a lot with ZERO logic being used.
Either be happy that you have DJ to tank the season
OR
Are you worried that DJ will be good enough that he will keep us out of drafting a QB? Which is also humorous because you think DJ is the worst QB ever.
You are in quite the conundrum. That must really angry you.
Excellent post.
But why does that bother you?
Because $40 million could have been used to upgrade the shit roster. That makes sense.
But the giants dont draft a QB and put draft capital to upgrade the shit roster and you are mad because they didnt draft a QB.
Jones existence has never prevented the Giants from drafting a QB, except the year he played well enough to take the team to playoffs. But yes I remember, that year doesnt count because it was scheme and Jones did what any QB could do.
His contract prevented us signing a high priced Free Agent QB like 36 year old Cousins for 45milAAV/180 mil, 28 year old Minshew for 12.5 AAV/$25 mil, or Bring back Tyrod who did not do that much better and also could not stay on the field.
If you did get Minshew or Tyrod and they played as well as you expected, how well is that exactly. Probably only good enough to keep you from drafting a rookie QB that you covet.
Shouldnt you be happy that shitty DJ will tank this team and get you in draft position?
Or are you really mad at the regime for not drafting Pennix/Macarthy/Nix, which again, DJ did not prevent this from happening.
Pennix - laundry list of injuries and old rookie
McCarthy - has noted trouble throwing deep balls over LBs and under Safeties
Nix - looks as good as Sam Darnold
But even if that is what you wanted, isnt this really JS and Daboll fault and especially Tommy Devito's fault for winning too many games?
You guys really bitch a lot with ZERO logic being used.
Either be happy that you have DJ to tank the season
OR
Are you worried that DJ will be good enough that he will keep us out of drafting a QB? Which is also humorous because you think DJ is the worst QB ever.
You are in quite the conundrum. That must really angry you.
DJ tanking the season means another full reset with the coaching staff and probably FO. Not drafting a QB very possibly set this team back 3 more seasons
But yeah no reason to be upset
But that is hope. I also hope I can bed Margot Robbie tonight. But in all probability, neither is happening.
The most likely scenario for Jones this season is that he looks like a middling QB best situated to be a backup in this league. And there’s no shame in that…he made it further than 99.9% of his peers from high school. And it doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy or teammate. It just means he’s not a legit starting QB in the NFL.
And I want a stud at the position. We all should. And until we get one, I fear we are just spinning our wheels.
lmao what an accomplishment.
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When DJ goes .500 and is the starting QB in 2025
lmao what an accomplishment.
If going .500 is treated like some sort of accomplishment among ownership & some fans, it is sad the depths this organization has sunk.
Based on the moves this team has made, I agree w/ Sean: this is a win now team according to the organization, which I find absurd & delusional considering I believe this is one of the worst teams in the NFL.
Shame on him.
I know because he has been so lights out the previous 5 seasons.
If he doesn't, I'm sure we'll hear excuse after excuse after excuse.
& I hope he does succeed & shuts people like me up! I want the Giants to be good & that means he succeeds. I just am not confident that'll happen.
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can be considered as an improvement in a team undergoing a rebuild.
Based on the moves this team has made, I agree w/ Sean: this is a win now team according to the organization, which I find absurd & delusional considering I believe this is one of the worst teams in the NFL.
Aren't the Giants one of the youngest teams in the league?
This is year 3 of this regime. They shouldn't be rebuilding. They own this roster.
What does a salary have to do with a crap OL.?