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What could they get / what would you accept for Slayton?

Blue Dog : 5/26/2024 2:27 pm
His absence from OTAs was one we already knew was coming, but Schoen has also made it known he does not want to give him a new deal after giving him one just a year ago. The WR group also has been redone under Schoen/Daboll with Nabers, Hyatt, and Robinson. Throw in Hodgins and possibly Allen Robinson or Isaiah Mckenzie as the depth.

If the talks have reached an impasse what can the Giants get? The only noteworthy recent WR trade to set a benchmark, would be Stefon Diggs fetching a 2025 2nd round pick, and although he's a better player, he's 3.5 years older (Slayton just turned 27, Diggs will be 31 during the season).

In terms of cap space saved, waiting until after June 1st might make sense. Unlike a cut/retirement they I don't believe they can make a trade designated as post June 1 - once he is moved it takes effect (correct me if I'm wrong there). Doing it before saves them $3.8M but waiting a week would be $6.4M with the difference moving to next season. The new team would only be on the hook for $2.5M for this year, but presumably a new deal would be in the works before the trade, but that's a great starting point.

Slayton has been a consistent 700+ yard receiver for the Giants. That is pretty great value for a 5th round pick and could probably be even better with more help. It would suck to lose him with what appears to be a WR room with some depth for the first time in a long time, but it happens. Maybe Waller finally announces retirement and they give Slayton more money. Until then I wonder if they could get a Toney-like deal or would it just be a day 3 lottery ticket?
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Why trade him?  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/26/2024 4:03 pm : link
Yeah, it's dicky that he's not at OTAs, but he's under contract and not really that expensive for a guy somehow had 50 catches, 770 yards and 4 TDs with absolute garbage at QB.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/26/2024 4:19 pm : link
I can't believe he's holding out. Talk about someone who thinks he's much better than he actually is.
RE: Slayton is worth more  
Doubledeuce22 : 5/26/2024 4:19 pm : link
In comment 16524825 markky said:
Quote:
Than anything we could get for him.

Keep him for the playoff push.


Playoff push hahaha. This Giants team is going to be a bottom of the barrel team this year.
 
christian : 5/26/2024 4:32 pm : link
Mental exercise -- what would be a good season for Hyatt?
I thought Slayton took a paycut  
Gmen703 : 5/26/2024 4:36 pm : link
Didn't realize they have him a new deal. Either way, I say pay the man. Nothing crazy.
The reason to trade  
pjcas18 : 5/26/2024 4:55 pm : link
Slayton is because

A: He's got one year left on his deal and wants an extension

B: Ideally he winds up the 4th best WR on the team

C: Its not ideal to have your 4th best WR as the highest paid WR, just better ways to use those precious cap $$ such as hey, you don't need to use them all this year and they can carry over to next year or when the Giants are contenders and could use one elite guard in FA (for example) or a DB or whatever

D: Your depth should come from McKenzie, Robinson, Hodgins, etc who are paid commensurate with their role

E: His timing is off with when the Giants should be expected to contend

for those reasons I'm out on Slayton and he should be traded
I'd like having him stay. Injuries are a part of the game and having  
Ira : 5/26/2024 4:58 pm : link
4 receivers who can play gives us needed depth.
depth for what?  
pjcas18 : 5/26/2024 5:03 pm : link
to be mediocre?

unless you're delusional and expect to contend this year, using precious cap $$ to pay Slayton $8M+ to be WR4 is just bad management/roster building.

How about trade him and keep the $8M saved or whatever it is for next year.
 
christian : 5/26/2024 5:09 pm : link
Cutting or trading Slayton would save 3.8M maximum today. Probably closer to 3.45M as he's not participated in all of the OTAs.
RE: …  
pjcas18 : 5/26/2024 5:09 pm : link
In comment 16524941 christian said:
Quote:
Cutting or trading Slayton would save 3.8M maximum today. Probably closer to 3.45M as he's not participated in all of the OTAs.


worth it.
Slayton will be there at camp  
ElitoCanton : 5/26/2024 5:13 pm : link
he will lose too much money if he's not. Him missing OTAs mean very little.
Don’t see it coming to this  
BillT : 5/26/2024 5:14 pm : link
Slayton will play on his contract. He doesn’t have much choice and playing well on his FA year is to his benefit. He’s a vet, knows the offense, OTAs aren’t crucial.
 
christian : 5/26/2024 5:25 pm : link
I'm fatigued reposting these numbers.

Slayton was top 40 among WRs in yards, top 20 in YPR, top in YPT last year.

You don't cut guys who in that group. That's an outstanding floor for a 2nd WR.

If Robinson and Hyatt beat him out at camp, then trade him.
Who said cut him? But You are making  
pjcas18 : 5/26/2024 5:35 pm : link
one of the worst mistakes a front office can make, you are evaluating a player based on history, not future.

Slayton good player or bad player is not in debate (for me) what is though is he was WR1/target 1 in the passing game basically the whole season. Hyatt was a rookie, Wan'Dale missed a few games, Waller missed a lot of the season. Barkley missed time.

Often receiving stats are a function of "you have to throw to someone" as much as the actual player quality. Again though, I am not debating if Slayton is good or not, but going forward I do not expect Slayton to be the main option in the offense. He *should* be the 3rd or 4th option so what he did in 2023 (or any year) is irrelevant to me - if anything wouldn't it just make him more valuable in a trade?

But reality is the Giants are shopping him or have checked around and know his value and it's not what you think for a WR who you are fatigued from sharing meaningless stats.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/26/2024 5:41 pm : link
pjcas18 nails it re. Slayton.

I honestly find it comical he’s holding out.
Not a Slayton Fan But  
Samiam : 5/26/2024 5:55 pm : link
I think he’s ok but there are lots of WRs comparable to him. But not bringing Slayton back means they’re relying 100% on Nabors to be what they expect him to be. If he’s not, having Slayton would help. In terms of Nabors being special, think about how everyone felt about Evan Neal after he was drafted. That kind of stuff happens.
...  
christian : 5/26/2024 6:37 pm : link
In comment 16524955 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Often receiving stats are a function of "you have to throw to someone" as much as the actual player quality.

That couldn't be any less true. Slayton ranked 52nd targets among receivers last year, but was 39th in yards.

Slayton ranked 11th among WRs in YPR, and 10th in YPT. That's why ESPN advanced analytics ranked him the 30th best WR in the NFL last year. He was extremely efficient. He should be getting the ball more.

Guys who are getting the ball because "someone has to" don't have outstanding efficiency numbers, they compile catches like Evan Engram.

On a per game basis he was 2nd in the team in targets behind Waller. For a guys who got 4.6 looks per game, Slayton was really efficient.

Same question I posed before. If Hyatt replaces Slayton, what would a good season for him look like?
Sure they do  
pjcas18 : 5/26/2024 6:50 pm : link
look up Rueben Randle's 2014/2015 stats.

I liked Randle better than Slayton, and Randle was a #2 basically because someone had to be. His numbers are similar to Slayton's but better when you consider he was the 2nd option after Beckham.
RE: ...  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/26/2024 6:51 pm : link
In comment 16525028 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16524955 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Often receiving stats are a function of "you have to throw to someone" as much as the actual player quality.


That couldn't be any less true. Slayton ranked 52nd targets among receivers last year, but was 39th in yards.

Slayton ranked 11th among WRs in YPR, and 10th in YPT. That's why ESPN advanced analytics ranked him the 30th best WR in the NFL last year. He was extremely efficient. He should be getting the ball more.

Guys who are getting the ball because "someone has to" don't have outstanding efficiency numbers, they compile catches like Evan Engram.

On a per game basis he was 2nd in the team in targets behind Waller. For a guys who got 4.6 looks per game, Slayton was really efficient.

Same question I posed before. If Hyatt replaces Slayton, what would a good season for him look like?


Good stuff. To be fair. Mentioning Steve Slayton drops some people's IQ 25-50 points instantly here.

He's not paid much. He was a 5th rounder who definitely has out played his draft slot. FFS. How many Giants have done that on the last 20 years? Dude gets shit on here more than anyone for no rational reason. Not over paid and productive. Maybe they should d trade him and Thomas and Dex. JFC.

The stupid is strong on BBI when it comes to Slayton
RE: RE: Slayton is worth more  
bLiTz 2k : 5/26/2024 6:56 pm : link
In comment 16524895 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 16524825 markky said:


Quote:


Than anything we could get for him.

Keep him for the playoff push.



Playoff push hahaha. This Giants team is going to be a bottom of the barrel team this year.


Great. You should suspend your account and stop posting until they're not.
RE: Slayton is worth more  
81_Great_Dane : 5/26/2024 7:27 pm : link
In comment 16524825 markky said:
Quote:
Than anything we could get for him.

Keep him for the playoff push.
this.

It’s common for NFL players to be worth more on the roster than they would be in trade. So if you trade them you don’t worry about getting “fair” value, ‘cause you won’t.

Slayton is a useful player and his contract is relatively cheap. He might have a little trade value but probably not enough to draft his replacement. Trading him isn’t an attractive option IMO.
Paying Slayton makes no sense to me  
Jay on the Island : 5/26/2024 7:27 pm : link
unless he takes a paycut which obviously will not happen. The Giants already have Nabers, Hyatt, and Robinson in place. They also have a solid group of intriguing young WR's competing for a roster spot. The Giants need to make smart moves when it comes to the cap and paying Slayton over $6 million a year is not wise especially when he might end the season as the #4 WR.
Slayton is a very good receiver  
kelly : 5/26/2024 9:16 pm : link
On a team with a better o line and qb he is a 1000 yard receiver.

I would not trade him.
If you could trade Slayton and say a #5 for a bonafide  
SGMen : 5/26/2024 9:21 pm : link
starting NFL tight end that can block and upgrade Waller and the gang I'd definitely do it.
RE: Sure they do  
JoeSchoens11 : 5/26/2024 10:37 pm : link
In comment 16525040 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
look up Rueben Randle's 2014/2015 stats.

I liked Randle better than Slayton, and Randle was a #2 basically because someone had to be. His numbers are similar to Slayton's but better when you consider he was the 2nd option after Beckham.
If Nabers produces anything close to OBJ then that makes every other wr’s job easier and improves the overall passing game.

Randle didn’t understand the playbook and that’s why he had a short unsuccessful career despite his 2nd round pedigree. I wouldn’t even consider a straight up trade of Slayton for prime Randle.
His only possible value  
gridirony : 5/27/2024 12:47 am : link
would be to a true Superbowl contender, that needs, or will need, more depth at WR, this season, and he's perceived to be the best available at the time of need.
I don't think they should deal him  
Matt M. : 5/27/2024 4:40 am : link
But, I don't get why so many love him. In an ideal world, he is thew 4th best WR next year.
We are 1-2 injuries away...  
DefenseWins : 5/27/2024 6:52 am : link
from wishing we still had Slayton on the roster if we traded him away.

To the OP, not sure if you have been keeping an eye on this team's injury history, but injuries to 2 WRs is something that can happen easily.
RE: If you could trade Slayton and say a #5 for a bonafide  
section125 : 5/27/2024 7:06 am : link
In comment 16525099 SGMen said:
Quote:
starting NFL tight end that can block and upgrade Waller and the gang I'd definitely do it.


Why would you do that when you just drafted a TE that is one of the highest rated coming out of college; guy who Sy said has the possibility of the highest upside of any in this draft?

If someone offered a #5 and they felt they had enough people in the room to replace him, I'd take it. However, he seems to stay healthy, knows the system and has good speed. FWIW, I think he salary is correct as it is.
You're not getting anything for him.  
mittenedman : 5/27/2024 8:37 am : link
I feel for the guy, he's played a lot of football for this team and been asked to do things way over his head because there's no one else.

He's also making the only power move he can: he sees the writing on the wall, knows he's likely to be the #4 WR this year, and is trying to get a new payday before he becomes irrelevant.

We already got a glimpse at his perceived value on the UFA market. He'd get a conditional 6th or 7th at most.
Slayton  
mdthedream : 5/27/2024 9:44 am : link
has put up really good numbers for a really bad team with no Oline.I think he underrated for sure and would help a lot of teams. Hopefully he stays with the Giants. A 5th seems about right for a team looking for a guy that actually gets the Job done unlike a lot of way overrated WR that cost more.
Except for the risk of injury, which exists anyway  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/27/2024 9:47 am : link
Giants have nothing to lose by being patient.

Slayton market value will increase as we get closer to the start of the season and some front office decides its team is just a deep threat away.

JS should already have decided "I don't need this now" and DS should have a irrevocable future ticket to somewhere else.
He has outplayed his draft slot  
Mike from Ohio : 5/27/2024 9:57 am : link
And is a solid receiver. However, the point PJ made is the correct one. Now that he wants a decent sized deal, the question isn’t whether or not he was a good pick or has been a good receiver. The right question is whether he adds $8M (or whatever the number is) value each year going forward.

Slayton should be the 3rd/4th WR on this team this year and going forward. If you can trade him for a 5th round pick I would do that and allocate that money to someone at another position who is higher up the depth chart.

Slayton is a good WR, but the quality of WRs coming out of college each year makes him pretty easily replaceable.
I think Slayton is one of those guys  
Section331 : 5/27/2024 10:19 am : link
who is more valuable to his team than what he would bring back in a trade. I don’t think he’d bring back more than a 4th rd pick, but given Jones’s comfort level with him, why trade him?
This is where Schoen needs to start being financially smart  
GiantBlue : 5/27/2024 10:52 am : link
In the past, we gave too much money to average players and in some cases; players who were over the hill (Golladay). We are always up against the cap and the season is over in October.

We need to start prioritizing the right players for money and slot the rest based on their value.

Slayton's value right now is at his lowest because we actually have a good WR room....a young room at cost controlled contracts.

Now is the time to start being smarter and if it means Slayton either has to hold out or play out his contract; so be it.

I am through paying big money for players who who under perform.
The value to us Slayton had was he was cheap and played better  
PatersonPlank : 5/27/2024 12:16 pm : link
than his price. Now he wants money do everything changed. There are probably 50 WRs out there roughly the same as Slayton. I don't see any reason to pay him a lot.
I like Slayton  
UberAlias : 5/27/2024 1:22 pm : link
And he makes the team better. But I would honestly take a 5th (or better) for him. The value isn't there for us at that price level, but I would be checking under the seat cushions searching for draft picks. Whatever gets us leverage to help go get our QB.
Slayton and a 7th.....  
MOOPS : 5/27/2024 1:38 pm : link
for a 6th.
Bottom line he's nothing special.
He ain't worth more than he's getting paid now.
Thank you, Christian ....  
Manny in CA : 5/27/2024 5:56 pm : link

I'll redeposite the numbers for you -

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/receiving.htm

16th in Yards/reception - 15.5 (better than Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Puka Nacua, DeVonta Smith, etc), that's just ONE of the stats you mentioned.

About contending teams; If I'm sitting there with a good QB that needs a deep threat (whose O-line gives him time to make the long throws), I'd have NO problem offering the Giants a #3 pick). Under the right circumstances he's a top 20 or 30 receiver, for sure a legit "No. 2"



...  
christian : 5/27/2024 6:51 pm : link
RE: trade value, players aren't traded in May, so whatever activity/inactivity occurring is no indication of his value. There will be an uptick in transactions at the end of camp (where the Giants acquired Simmons last year) and then before the deadline in October.

A trade that's an OK comparison is Donovan Peoples-Jones, who was traded for a 6th at the deadline after falling in the depth chart. Slayton is a better player than DPJ, so I wouldn't be surprised if he could fetch a 5th either at the end of camp or near the deadline from a team in need of a WR.

RE: production, I think a lot of fans have a misperception of what number 2 receivers produce in the NFL. Only 8 teams had a number 2 receiver produce more than the 770 yards Slayton had last year. And each of them had a 1,000 across from them.

I think we're all assuming Nabers will be the no. 1 guy next year. If the no. 2 guy produces like Slayton, he'll likely be a top 10 2nd option.

If that guys is Hyatt, awesome. If that guys is Slayton, awesome. What we know is who Slayton is, and the Giants are betting Hyatt can be that guy.

Darius Slayton (79, 770)
Chris Godwin (130, 1024)
Deebo Samuel (89, 892)
Tyler Lockett (122, 894)
DeVonta Smith (112, 1066)
Jordan Addison (108, 911)
Christian Kirk (85, 787)
Jakobi Meyers (106, 807)
Josh Downs (98, 771)
I hope Schoen extends him.  
cosmicj : 5/27/2024 7:06 pm : link
We don’t really know what Slayton is looking for. He could just want an extension at the same level of his current contract with another signing bonus. Let’s see the numbers.
Slayton is a pretty good player  
Darwinian : 5/27/2024 7:41 pm : link
But he's worth absolutely nothing in the trade market. There are 40 or 50 Slayton's in the NFL.
RE: Slayton is a pretty good player  
christian : 5/27/2024 8:03 pm : link
In comment 16525409 Darwinian said:
Quote:
But he's worth absolutely nothing in the trade market. There are 40 or 50 Slayton's in the NFL.

Jerry Juedy was traded for a 5th and 6th in March, and then signed a three year, $52.5 million contract extension with the Browns.

Juedy


Slayton


Based on the market for Juedy and DPJ, my guess his market value is a 5th.
RE: RE: RE: Slayton is worth more  
Doubledeuce22 : 5/27/2024 8:29 pm : link
In comment 16525048 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
In comment 16524895 Doubledeuce22 said:


Quote:


In comment 16524825 markky said:


Quote:


Than anything we could get for him.

Keep him for the playoff push.



Playoff push hahaha. This Giants team is going to be a bottom of the barrel team this year.



Great. You should suspend your account and stop posting until they're not.


Why? Because I’m not a delusional Giants fan?
RE: I think Slayton is one of those guys  
Rudy5757 : 5/28/2024 12:32 am : link
In comment 16525190 Section331 said:
Quote:
who is more valuable to his team than what he would bring back in a trade. I don’t think he’d bring back more than a 4th rd pick, but given Jones’s comfort level with him, why trade him?


I agree 100%, he has more value to the Giants than a trade. Plus he has been healthy unlike others on the team.

He most likely won’t hold out, he has no leverage at this point.
RE: a 5th round pick  
Brick72 : 5/28/2024 4:30 am : link
In comment 16524811 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
with conditions to upgrade it to a 4th if Slayton plays 50% or more of the offensive snaps for his new team.
You make an interesting point. But with Nabers, Robinson, and Hyatt it's not likely Slayton would see 50% of the snaps for the Giants, so it might be a stretch on a new team also. There aren't that many teams absolutely desperate for a receiver of Slayton's ability to make him a 50% offensive snap player.
A 4th would be highly unlikely. I'm sure Schoen would know that.
Think Boogie Basham  
HBart : 5/28/2024 5:55 am : link
6th round pick swap.

As a blazing fast proven NFL receiver, Slayton's the kind of guy a team in need will pay a little to lock in pre-waivers.

I can't imagine them extending Slayton unless he shows up for camp and crushes it, and even then he could find himself in the cold given the WR logjam. HIs agent is pretty tone deaf. I see him as likely to be gone in August as be extended.
RE: RE: a 5th round pick  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2024 8:08 am : link
In comment 16525521 Brick72 said:
Quote:
In comment 16524811 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


with conditions to upgrade it to a 4th if Slayton plays 50% or more of the offensive snaps for his new team.

You make an interesting point. But with Nabers, Robinson, and Hyatt it's not likely Slayton would see 50% of the snaps for the Giants, so it might be a stretch on a new team also. There aren't that many teams absolutely desperate for a receiver of Slayton's ability to make him a 50% offensive snap player.
A 4th would be highly unlikely. I'm sure Schoen would know that.


I agree, but a 5th is fair IMO, a 4th is only conditionally fair.
RE: Jerry Jeudy was traded for a 5th and 6th round pick.  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/28/2024 4:34 pm : link
In comment 16524812 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
And as far as Waller goes, Waller has nothing to do with Slayton. Imo, Waller already made up his mind and the Giamts will wait to file paperwork on his retirement until June 1st just like the Eagles are doing with Kelce. There is no difference between cutting a player and a player retiring when it comes to the cap. They are treated the same. We aren't saving money on Waller. The only thing that will happen is we split the difference of money owed between this year and next year. We aren't saving money with his retirement so that has no effect on Slayton whatsoever.

Even if your theory held water from a procedural standpoint (I'm not sure that it does; I don't see any reason why a team couldn't designate a retiree as a 6/1-release in advance just like they do for a standard roster cut), that still doesn't explain why Waller would be cryptic about it for any reason. Kelce announced his retirement, the team acknowledged his retirement, the press reported his retirement, and the only thing remaining is for the organization to file the actual paperwork with the league.

That's materially different than the Giants publicly saying that they don't know what Waller is planning to do, Waller himself publicly saying that he doesn't know what he's planning to do, and the press reporting that no one knows what Waller is planning to do.

I'm not buying the idea that the Giants are actually being shrewd here; I think they're just along for the ride with whatever Waller decides. At a certain point, I assume they'll get tired of waiting for Waller if he doesn't make a decision. But I don't think it's because the Giants have a plan already in action. I think - as with most things they do - they're just waiting to react. Fortunately, they at least put some contingency planning into place this time around.
When are people going to realize  
Jerry in_DC : 5/28/2024 5:54 pm : link
that 3 WRs and Nickel are basically the base formations in the NFL now?

Your 3rd WR and CB are starters. Your 4th are the 1st backups. You need a lot of real NFL players at those positions.

Now if the argument is that we're going to be bad this year and we should just plan for the future, I'm here for that. But the Giants are actually trying to win. Slayton is a useful member of the team that will probably play ~50% of snaps even if the young guys look good.
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