This was a really good listen. The discussion included how to handle Jones' injury guarantee. A few highlights:
--Bobby Skinner made the point I've been making - last year was as bad as you can imagine and NYG still won 6 games. He thinks this is an 8-9 team at this point.
--If NYG was confident in Jones, they likely would have moved some money and decided to keep McKinney. The fact they didn't is telling about how they feel about Jones.
--Around 2pm on draft day, it looked like NYG was moving up to 3 to take Maye.
--The majority of the McCarthy talk was around intangibles, not skills. They think it got out of control towards the end with all the McCarthy hype.
--This offseason hasn't meant NYG is all in on Jones.
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If you want to credit Jones for something, he's definitely a tough guy, but between that and his running ability, what are the odds his neck holds up? Why would we expect it to? And even if it does, we're talking about an average-ish QB at best.
If you're telling me 8-9 wins, I'd have an easier time believing that DeVito won an open QB competition and continued to improve upon last year.
I think we have the worst QB room in the league, and I'm not one for hyperbole. It's going to be tough in a league that's driven by QB play.
But imo Jones is still going to cost people jobs amd they'll regret not replacing him this season
NO ONE think Jones is the next Aaron Rodgers. Some of us just don’t believe he sucks.
The Giants might not be committed to Jones but we know definitively they do not believe that Daniel Jones sucks. Or they would have drafted a QB or signed a backup with more experience than the last back up.
The Giants may not LOVE Jones but they Like him…
I agree with you. Some here act like it's a positive they were in on Maye. The only problem is they didn't actually get him. And we know they're not fully in on Jones. All of the above is why we have a shitty situation at the most important position in the sport.
But imo Jones is still going to cost people jobs amd they'll regret not replacing him this season
If they win 8 games, they'll continue to be "not all in" on Jones but he'll still be here in 2025.
And I can see the Giants winning 8-9 games but the 6 wins last year isn’t really a big factor. This roster is finally coming together. You can go unit by unit and see improvement in the talent level of the personnel. We finally have a chance to be competitive.
Yup, endless speculation, like what's said is fact.
he got a very low guarantee so it could very easily end up turning into a 1 year 23m deal or 2 years 37m, plus some LTBE incentives on top, but i think there were better uses of cap room than him.
he got a very low guarantee so it could very easily end up turning into a 1 year 23m deal or 2 years 37m, plus some LTBE incentives on top, but i think there were better uses of cap room than him.
Couldn't agree more.
I don't think Schoen signs an expensive safety based on his quarterback situation.
Jones is here, and in 2024 he's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. He's got a significant cap hit next year too; I expect the only thing that keeps him from starting opening day 2025 is an injury.
this regime has clearly signaled that RBs, Safety's value is lower than other skill positions
They fought with Barkley over salary then let him go to his "greener pasture." They let both Love and McKinney go to "greener pastures;" and they replaced both Barkley and McKinney with cheaper alternatives that fit their value system proportionally.
What the heck does that have to do with their belief in Jones?
In fact - their discipline should give observers of the team hope that they do see/analyze properly what is going on with the team and are taking disciplined methods of dealing with it.
I for one am curious to see how Jones responds. I know most think he's trash and you can throw all the stats in the world at me. I don't care. I have seen countless players prove people wrong so many times....lost count.
Jones is here, and in 2024 he's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. He's got a significant cap hit next year too; I expect the only thing that keeps him from starting opening day 2025 is an injury.
Well the Packers disagree about McKinney. You can't see that he's a solid starting safety who is in his prime? No one said he's Ronnie Lott. He's a good player. Good players hold value. We should hope that his replacement here is 3/4 as good because if not, we're gonna struggle in the back end. Do you just hold every player in contempt simply because the team sucks? It sounds like you do.
I for one am curious to see how Jones responds. I know most think he's trash and you can throw all the stats in the world at me. I don't care. I have seen countless players prove people wrong so many times....lost count.
I hope he does. I wanna eat crow.
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I can't remember anything he's ever done. I doubt he was a factor one way or the other.
Jones is here, and in 2024 he's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. He's got a significant cap hit next year too; I expect the only thing that keeps him from starting opening day 2025 is an injury.
Well the Packers disagree about McKinney. You can't see that he's a solid starting safety who is in his prime? No one said he's Ronnie Lott. He's a good player. Good players hold value. We should hope that his replacement here is 3/4 as good because if not, we're gonna struggle in the back end. Do you just hold every player in contempt simply because the team sucks? It sounds like you do.
I don't hold McKinney in contempt. I just can't remember anything he ever did. I'm glad someone else is paying him.
I for one am curious to see how Jones responds. I know most think he's trash and you can throw all the stats in the world at me. I don't care. I have seen countless players prove people wrong so many times....lost count.
Work ethic has never been his problem. Lack of ability is his problem. He can be the hardest working guy the franchise has ever seen and he still won't be an above-average NFL QB.
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In comment 16526612 Go Terps said:
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I can't remember anything he's ever done. I doubt he was a factor one way or the other.
Jones is here, and in 2024 he's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. He's got a significant cap hit next year too; I expect the only thing that keeps him from starting opening day 2025 is an injury.
Well the Packers disagree about McKinney. You can't see that he's a solid starting safety who is in his prime? No one said he's Ronnie Lott. He's a good player. Good players hold value. We should hope that his replacement here is 3/4 as good because if not, we're gonna struggle in the back end. Do you just hold every player in contempt simply because the team sucks? It sounds like you do.
I don't hold McKinney in contempt. I just can't remember anything he ever did. I'm glad someone else is paying him.
He was looking good until the ATV accident. Not quite the same since then. I am glad the Giants did not pay what Green Bay did although I would probably have preferred getting Justin Simmons on a reasonable deal versus having to spend a 2nd Round pick on Nubin.
NO ONE think Jones is the next Aaron Rodgers. Some of us just don’t believe he sucks.
The Giants might not be committed to Jones but we know definitively they do not believe that Daniel Jones sucks. Or they would have drafted a QB or signed a backup with more experience than the last back up.
The Giants may not LOVE Jones but they Like him…
That's really well said.
Ultimately those are the 2 camps:
1) those who think Jones is awful, who - by and large - have though that from the moment he was drafted
2) those that think Jones is decent at worst and that his performances pre-23 showed a middle-tier NFL QB with upside (both personally and from surrounding cast).
Schoen, Daboll, and fans in camp 2:
--- were satisfied that, in Jones' prove-it year, he did just that - and was awarded a mid-tier QB contract.
--- aren't happy about 23, and certainly harbor concerns they didn't going into this season - his injuries as much as any.
- yet, understand that the OL removed the ability for any QB to perform well, and early on, to perform at all - and so aren't changing their mind about Jones based on 4 bad games.
--- are resigned that '23 was a mulligan year. While that doesn't mean that '24 can't be what people hoped it would be before '23, there's no basis for that till the team -- including Jones -- hits the field again.
And yeah, the beats have made the trade up to 3a fact, and Maye the target, when -- as Jones told one beat -- nobody knows what if anything actually transpired. And were they enamored with Maye enough to want that trade, it still doesn't mean they think Jones sucks.
What is clear is that his production could be replaced by any of 30 QBs who make $10 M or less.
Paying Daniel $46 M and making him QB1 for life is like paying Darius Slayton $25M and never trying to get any better receivers.
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Holy shit, stupid people trying to protect their pre draft opinions. No thinks the Giants are committed to Jones. This is a prove it management team. They declined his faith year option, put him on audition and he delivered to THEIR satisfaction.
NO ONE think Jones is the next Aaron Rodgers. Some of us just don’t believe he sucks.
The Giants might not be committed to Jones but we know definitively they do not believe that Daniel Jones sucks. Or they would have drafted a QB or signed a backup with more experience than the last back up.
The Giants may not LOVE Jones but they Like him…
That's really well said.
Ultimately those are the 2 camps:
1) those who think Jones is awful, who - by and large - have though that from the moment he was drafted
2) those that think Jones is decent at worst and that his performances pre-23 showed a middle-tier NFL QB with upside (both personally and from surrounding cast).
Schoen, Daboll, and fans in camp 2:
--- were satisfied that, in Jones' prove-it year, he did just that - and was awarded a mid-tier QB contract.
--- aren't happy about 23, and certainly harbor concerns they didn't going into this season - his injuries as much as any.
- yet, understand that the OL removed the ability for any QB to perform well, and early on, to perform at all - and so aren't changing their mind about Jones based on 4 bad games.
--- are resigned that '23 was a mulligan year. While that doesn't mean that '24 can't be what people hoped it would be before '23, there's no basis for that till the team -- including Jones -- hits the field again.
And yeah, the beats have made the trade up to 3a fact, and Maye the target, when -- as Jones told one beat -- nobody knows what if anything actually transpired. And were they enamored with Maye enough to want that trade, it still doesn't mean they think Jones sucks.
I don't think that summarizes the feelings. I think there is a camp that had some hope for DJ when he was drafted, but performance and serious injury history eroded that hope. 2022 involved a lot of close games that the Giants were fortunate to win, and also a lot of running from DJ. Teams with decent defenses figured out how to shut down DJ's runs and he hasn't been the same since. Can't blame all that on the OL, lots of QBs have poor OLs but find ways to win games anyway. Even throw the ball down the field.
DJ's overall performance across the sum of his career has been poor. Maybe it is a result of the neck injuries, maybe not, but no amount of excuses can mask that. Time to move on.
What is the "all in on Maye excuse" an excuse for?
Are you sure you know what "excuse" means?
I for one am curious to see how Jones responds. I know most think he's trash and you can throw all the stats in the world at me. I don't care. I have seen countless players prove people wrong so many times....lost count.
I hope he tears it up as a giants fan but there really isn't a comparable case of an NFL QB putting it all together in his 6th season playing. But theres a first for everything!
👍
Given how bad he was last year after getting paid and his inability to improve since he entered the league, are we Even sure his work ethic stands out? What is that based on?
And even if he works harder than everyone, it isn't enough to overcome the lack of talent. If you have him a guitar and have him practice 12 hours a day every day he isn't going to become Jimi Hendrix.
Playing QB in the NFL is hard. Talent matters.
this regime has clearly signaled that RBs, Safety's value is lower than other skill positions
They fought with Barkley over salary then let him go to his "greener pasture." They let both Love and McKinney go to "greener pastures;" and they replaced both Barkley and McKinney with cheaper alternatives that fit their value system proportionally.
What the heck does that have to do with their belief in Jones?
In fact - their discipline should give observers of the team hope that they do see/analyze properly what is going on with the team and are taking disciplined methods of dealing with it.
when you step back and look at it as a trend, they have clearly been willing to hold value lines on RB/S while being willing to spend even on non-ideal pass catchers (waller, campbell, slayton).
they have now taken 3 day 1/2 WRs in their 3 drafts and just 1 S/RB.
imo they havent always gotten these judgements correct so im not saying they are geniuses, just that they do clearly have positional value way of operating they believe in.
McKinney won't be replaced 1:1, but replacing him in aggregate is not insurmountable. Pinnock, .≥≥Belton, Nubin could foreseeably exceed McKinney's ball production. Simmons, Mills both could supplement his curl/flat and TE coverage abilities. An area of concern that won't be easy to replaced is securing tackles. Love and McKinney were two of the best tackling safeties with 7%, 5.7% in their last years with the Giants, whereas all of these players (with the exception of Nubin) have not fared well in that regard.
For NYG, the rationale may be more than just this, but the bridges burnt with nonsense in the media, the ATV incident, but also that he just wasn't their guy--he wasn't drafted by this regime. Bobby Okereke took the green dot from him as soon as he arrived and the trust/cohesiveness didn't seem to be there.
"She has a nice personality"
Same energy
Did I miss the year(s) that either McKinney or Love made the Pro Bowl during their respective Giants tenures?
By his actions the Giants GM doesn't consider safety to be a financial investment position.
By his actions the Giants GM doesn't consider safety to be a financial investment position.
True. And even if it were, I don't think he's worth to the Giants what GB paid. I don't think for GB either; fine if he proves me wrong.
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They didn't get him , he could be a bust, and we still have Daniel Jones .
What is the "all in on Maye excuse" an excuse for?
Are you sure you know what "excuse" means?
It is an excuse some here use for why JS did not pursue another option at QB. If you thought really really hard you might have figured that out.