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NFT: 2024 New York Rangers Post-Mortem - the Offseason

Anakim : 6/2/2024 10:29 am
Unrestricted Free Agents:

Alexander Wennberg
Jack Roslovic
Erik Gustafsson
Chad Ruhwedel
Blake Wheeler

None of these players are worth bringing back, except maybe Ruhwedel on a cheap contract for the third pair. However, we didn't see enough of him this year to make a definitive judgment.


Restricted Free Agents:
Kaapo Kakko
Ryan Lindgren
Braden Schneider


Kakko is the biggest decision. What will he ask for? Despite many appreciating him as a solid defensive forward, he might be better served on another team. I think the Rangers will trade him.

Lindgren is incredibly tough, a true warrior in the mold of Dan Girardi. However, he's always hurt, has slow foot speed, and contributes little offensively. I'd bring him back for two years, but he likely wants a long-term deal. Drury should be cautious not to overpay, learning from the Girardi and Staal extensions.

Schneider is a must re-sign. He's young and still has room for improvement.


Team Needs:
Despite being a President's Cup team, we have several holes to fill. If we keep our main core in the top-6, we desperately need a legitimate top-6 right winger. Look at the revolving door at RW: Roslovic, Chytil, Wennberg, Wheeler, Vesey, Goodrow... We need a long-term solution.

Additionally, if we move on from Zibanejad, we'll need a top-6 center.

And we need a PMD. With a gimpy Fox, we had no one to move the puck of the zone for long stretch-passes and it was a HUGE problem. I'm hoping we give Zac Jones a real look despite his size.

Ironically, my top free agent target is left defenseman Brady Skjei. He would be an excellent replacement for Lindgren, given his great skating, offensive contributions, and ability to handle top-4 minutes.


I think the core will remain intact, with Mika Zibanejad, Chris Kreider, Artemi Panarin, and Jacob Trouba staying. Their contracts may be too difficult to move. Kreider, I guess will stay. Panarin will stay because of his contract, but I think it's safe to say that he cannot be counted on come playoff time.


The two biggest decisions are Mika and Trouba and of the two, I believe Captain Jacob Trouba needs to be off this team.


Rob Luker
@RLuker12
Since being acquired by #NYR in 2019, Jacob Trouba's on & off ice goal results at 5v5, regular season & playoffs.

On Ice: 268 GF, 289 GA (48.1%)
Off Ice: 580 GF, 506 GA (53.4%)


8M per for a boneheaded, cheapshot captain, who is a penalty-making machine and is a poor skater, puck-handler, and decision-maker. He needs to go. We'll need to replace his physicality on the blueline for sure, but Trouba should be considered addition by subtraction.


And I suggested this in another thread and perhaps PJ or someone could discuss this even more elaborately, but if possible, I'd look to trade Mika in a deal similar to how he was acquired in the first place, i.e. for a young center. The names that come immediately to mind are Shane Wright, Elias Pettersson, Marco Rossi, and Trevor Zegras. IDK if it's possible and Zibanejad has a full NMC. We may be stuck here.


And we officially have the 30th pick in the NHL Draft. We only have four picks: a first, a fourth, a fifth and a sixth.



My rough projected lineup:


Kreider - Zibanejad - ?
Panarin - Trocheck - Laf
Cuylle - Chytil (assuming he's in full health)- Othmann
Vesey - Goodrow - Rempe
Berard-Brodzinski-Edstrom



Skjei - Fox
K'Andre - Schneider
Zac Jones - ?
?
?


Igor
Quick
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Change is sorely needed  
Sec_149 : 6/3/2024 9:04 am : link
I said it in an earlier thread. You will not win a cup with Kreider as your #1 LW. I will say if the core of our forwards are Kreider, Mika, and Panarin, you can't win a cup.

They are not playoff performers, and I know what Kreider did in Carolina series. I think you need to trade Mika, and do something with Truba. But those contracts are gonna be tough to move.
I think given the last three playoffs  
Essex : 6/3/2024 9:07 am : link
its very fair to say tha 93 20 and 10 have a ceiling as the top core and that we might get back to this round but this appears to be our ceiling. Remember in 22 it was the "Kids line" that was the best line in the playoffs and last year Panarin disappeared. I enjoyed the season, so I can't say I am for tearing it down or doing things, but given our situation with the NTCs and aging players on expensive contracts, upgrading might not be in the realistic cards.
Unfortunately...  
ShockNRoll : 6/3/2024 9:16 am : link
most of what I have read on this thread is spot on. Rangers are basically looking like if they want, they can just run it back next year. I'm sure they can get Kakko, Schneider, Lindgren all back in the fold. However, after watching this series, it's hard to imagine that is what is best for the team going forward. I agree with everyone about Lindgren, and PJ has been saying for over a year now, that he's a valuable player, but not a top pair D.

In my opinion, upgrades over Kakko, Lindgren, Gustafsson, and a true 1RW are necessary if they're going to win a Cup. If they are going to acquire a 1RW in the free agent market, I would like to see them check in on Marchessault, Necas (RFA), DeBrusk, and at least see what the deal is with Brady Tkachuk though that seems like a pipe dream.

Ultimately, whether they are able to take the next step or not is going to come down to Igor continuing to be Igor, and Zibanejad/Kreider/Panarin. I won't act as if I'm not at least a little shaken by the way those 3 have performed the last couple of years in the playoffs. I really thought this was the year, and I'm definitely questioning if these guys can get it done. One thing I disagree with is that the Florida depth was the difference in the series. This series was won by Florida because of their big guys. Barkov was an animal all over the ice, Reinhart, Verghaeghe, Tkachuk, Bennett were impactful on every shift. Bobrovsky was good when he had to be, but their big guys were great, their PP was good (except the conceded shorties), and their PK was incredible. Rangers were never going to win the Cup with 1 PPG in a playoff series. It's disappointing, makes me question why I habitually watch all 82 games every season, when the regular season has so little bearing on the playoffs.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/3/2024 9:20 am : link
Victor, my slight pushback on what you said is that Fox was hobbled. He is a Norris winner and a top three defenseman in this league when healthy. The forwards are a little behind the best in the league but a healthy Fox would have made a huge difference IMO.
Ranger fans  
Sammo85 : 6/3/2024 9:20 am : link
shouldn’t give up on this group and I don’t see ability to make drastic moves really. Drury needs to look at balancing the speed on all lines and giving Laviolette more scoring depth on bottom lines without having to tinker or overshift top line forwards to play his style. As a Devils fan I was incredibly impressed how this Rangers team played all year and I’d caution trying to tinker with the defense too much.

I don’t see Rangers being able to move Trouba. He’s viewed very negatively around league and with the way game has changed last 5-7 years. Kreider you might be able to but given age and salary not sure you’d get fair value, unless plan is to move money just to sign a FA - risky. Can’t move Zibby unless you have another center to improve up top. Tkachuk from Ottawa isnt going to be available unless there’s a big return and rumors are Leafs, Flyers, Devils would be clamoring for shot to make an offer (Leafs might be willing to move Marner, Devils Mercer and the 10th pick).

Lafreniere is coming into his own. Schneider looks solid to me every time I’ve watched.

This team is going to contend again next year. The window is still there and I hope my Devils join in playoffs next year.
RE: averagejoe is spot on. this was/is a talented, gritty fun team to  
ShockNRoll : 6/3/2024 9:22 am : link
In comment 16529652 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
watch, BUT:

the ridiculous "parallels to 1994" were so off base. the real comparison for this team is the Cat era Rangers as chronicled in the book "We Did Everything But Win". I think it's Howie Rose quoted that Ratelle and Gilbert were great, but Mikita and Hull were immortal. Same with Park and Orr. And they were never big or tough enough to get through the whole thing. Those teams made the then Semi-finals 4 straight years, beat the defending Stanley Cup Champion each year, but only made the Finals once and lost. FLA was just bigger, faster, stronger, highly skilled and much more willing to get dirty than the Rangers were.

I like Kreider a lot, but he is an enigma. And he's playing smaller as he ages. Mika is what he is, great when he's hot. But he's soft. That dive with the empty net was a disgrace. These guys are vets, they have to be told that whoever (Kakko, Orthmann who knows?) is going be your RW, fucking make it work with the kid. It should be Kakko IMO, but who knows if they keep him.

Panarin disappears when the game gets physical.

re Lavi, did a great job, but how do you not give Goodrow regular shifts in the 3rd period of Game 4? he, Laf and Trocheck were the 3 best forwards in this series. When your top lines can't get out of their own zone, why not put the only line you have that will dump, chase and forecheck out there for regular shifts? All that said, I love him as a coach, best they've had since Keenan but without the craziness. 3 coaches in 4 years, same result, so players are out of excuses. Will be to retool with all the NMC big contracts.

On D, agree, love Lindgren but better to move on a year to early than a year too late.

Igor was unbelievable. He deserved better.

Off to Newport, back on Saturday.


This is pretty much exactly how I feel and it has definitely gone through my head that we very well may have 30 years of Henrik and Igor with Hall of Fame careers and no Cups to show for it.
The buch trade is frustrating  
Bear vs Shark : 6/3/2024 10:16 am : link
as RW1 has been a revolving door ever since. But the misses on Kravtsov and Lias Anderrsen also suck. They were negated a bit by hitting on Chytil and Miller in the back of those first rounds, but getting something out of those picks would have also really helped this team.

Lindgren can't be resigned. The dude is a warrior but I on't want to see the same mistake that was made with Dan Girardi.

I think you need to move one of the 10/93/20 and if I had to pick one to move, it'd be 93, even if his value is at an all time low. Cant' stand to see 20 in another jersey, and his play is more a reflection of Mika. Bread is too valuable in the regular season and, IMO, was not a TOTAL no show in the ECF.
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 10:18 am : link
Tough spot for Drury this offseason. A team that's too good to blow it up, but not good enough to just run it back as is. How can the Rangers become a better 5v5 team and finally get away from relying too much on goaltending, special teams, and opportunistic goal scoring in the playoffs?

Saw Brett mention the Huberdeau for Tkachuk deal. Smart guy, I was coming here to reference the exact same thing. Panthers coming off the President's Trophy and a playoff exit where they were clearly second best (they got swept and embarrassed, to be fair). They trade a 100 point scorer and a top 4 defenseman from their core and completely remade their identity with one move. Is that deal out there for the Rangers? Is it another Tkachuk?

It's easy to say trade this guy or that guy from the core, but you could do a whole lot worse than what this group has delivered. So it's a difficult needle to thread. How can they find a way to be more playoff ready while not sacrificing the consistency in the regular season and early rounds that have allowed them to get to 2 of 3 conference finals. Huge offseason ahead.

Turning over 2 or 3 guys from the defense is probably the simpler move to become a team more capable of controlling games. I generally think it's easier to find undervalued defensemen than forwards. Look at what Florida has done with their group. Need to build a more mobile group capable of denying zone entries and cleanly exiting with possession. That was a glaring weakness exposed in this series.

Would try to avoid a Trouba buyout. Only two years left on the deal. There's an intriguing "second core" developing with Lafreniere's ascension looking imminent. Would rather keep the cap clear two years from now. I'm okay bringing Trouba back if they can't find a trade but he needs a more appropriate role for the player he is now. Lindgren should probably be moved. I need to see they've learned their lesson with long term deals on defense for certain types of player.
Mika's Postgame Comments  
Costy16 : 6/3/2024 10:19 am : link
About the Rangers taking what was given in the series were truly an embarrassment, and it sums up their true core issue. In the ECF, you don't take what is given to you from the other team, you go out and do what it takes to get it and dictate the play. Not enough guys want to battle in the dirty areas to make something happen. Mika and Panarin hate contact, and Kreider plays like he is 35 lbs lighter than what he is.
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 10:24 am : link
I genuinely have no idea what to do with Mika. Very good player who seems to be unable to consistently raise his game when he goes against the top centers in the league. You can trade him, but how are you filling that gap in the lineup? Can they finally find him a consistent right winger? Ultimately would still expect him back but if you're looking for a bold move, I think he's the one. The drop in 5v5 play this year was pretty alarming.

.  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 10:25 am : link
And he has a NMC anyway
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/3/2024 10:30 am : link
Kyle, great post.

My view is the Panthers were the better team but we were close. An extra call here or there, a cross bar, and maybe we're in the SCF. A healthy Fox. I seem to be in the minority, but there are a lot of what-if's in this series--even more so than the 2014 SCF. I said going in that this series was a coin flip, and I don't think that was wrong.

So you have to roughly run it back. I'd like to trade Trouba and Goodrow and use that money elsewhere. And then try to sign or trade for someone else. Personally, I think NYR needs to go all in next year. Trade for Chychrun or something. This team is so close.
RE: .  
BrettNYG10 : 6/3/2024 10:31 am : link
In comment 16529738 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
And he has a NMC anyway


I don't see an upgrade. This is why I advocated trading him and sending those assets for Eichel back when. What's the option now, trade him for Zegras? trade him and sign Stamkos?

And that assumes he waives the NMC, which I doubt he will.
Trouba  
pjcas18 : 6/3/2024 10:32 am : link
is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.
RE: Trouba  
Greg from LI : 6/3/2024 10:35 am : link
In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
then the fans get what they deserve.


A guy who doesn't take stupid penalties, make terrible passes consistently, and frequently get himself out of position?
RE: .  
ShockNRoll : 6/3/2024 10:36 am : link
In comment 16529736 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
I genuinely have no idea what to do with Mika. Very good player who seems to be unable to consistently raise his game when he goes against the top centers in the league. You can trade him, but how are you filling that gap in the lineup? Can they finally find him a consistent right winger? Ultimately would still expect him back but if you're looking for a bold move, I think he's the one. The drop in 5v5 play this year was pretty alarming.


Mika is as enigmatic at this point as any player I've followed in any sport. He's too young to be in decline, he's only 31. Yet, as you mentioned, the fact that he had a stretch of something like 28 games without a 5 on 5 goal this year is extremely concerning. The guy is as good as anyone in the league when he's hot, but yes, when he goes up against an elite defensive center, he is rendered invisible. Mika is not going anywhere. He has a full no movement clause until a week before the 2030 trade deadline. I advocated for him to get signed long term, and I still think he can be a plus player for them. It's easy to overlook everything else he offers in the way of his defense and PK prowess, because you expect your 1C to deliver. Until the Burns cross check to the back, he was delivering, and I do wonder if that play resulted in an injury. In a down year, he put up 72 points. I do think having a consistent 1RW, like he had in Buchnevich, would have a positive impact on his game, and as I mentioned earlier, I think even if it makes them have to do some cap gymnastics, Marchessault is my number one target.
RE: RE: .  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 10:39 am : link
In comment 16529746 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529738 Kyle in NY said:


Quote:


And he has a NMC anyway



I don't see an upgrade. This is why I advocated trading him and sending those assets for Eichel back when. What's the option now, trade him for Zegras? trade him and sign Stamkos?

And that assumes he waives the NMC, which I doubt he will.


Yeah it's hard to see a deal out there that doesn't require them to take a step back for next season. For all his faults, you're still replacing a PPG center. It's not that simple. So what are the moves to make to get more out of Mika next season. What do his ideal linemates look like? That's the main focus for me with the forward group this offseason.
RE: Trouba  
Jon In NYC : 6/3/2024 10:41 am : link
In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.


I don't follow too much non Ranger Hockey, is a lesser Torey Krug supposed to be an insult? I remember at one point he was a big name but things tend to change.
RE: RE: Trouba  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 10:43 am : link
In comment 16529757 Jon In NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.



I don't follow too much non Ranger Hockey, is a lesser Torey Krug supposed to be an insult? I remember at one point he was a big name but things tend to change.


Torey Krug has played 778 games with 483 points as an undersized defenseman. What's a lesser Torey Krug? Half of that? Sign me up!!
RE: RE: Trouba  
pjcas18 : 6/3/2024 10:44 am : link
In comment 16529757 Jon In NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.



I don't follow too much non Ranger Hockey, is a lesser Torey Krug supposed to be an insult? I remember at one point he was a big name but things tend to change.


No, Torey Krug is not a bad player, but he's one dimensional. As he has gotten older he's rounded out a little bit but his first 5 or 6 years in the league he was offense only and a defensive liability in his own zone.
RE: RE: RE: Trouba  
Jon In NYC : 6/3/2024 10:46 am : link
In comment 16529760 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529757 Jon In NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.



I don't follow too much non Ranger Hockey, is a lesser Torey Krug supposed to be an insult? I remember at one point he was a big name but things tend to change.



No, Torey Krug is not a bad player, but he's one dimensional. As he has gotten older he's rounded out a little bit but his first 5 or 6 years in the league he was offense only and a defensive liability in his own zone.


So the defensive liability portion vs Trouba will be consistent but maybe they can move the puck out of their own zone. Seems like a net positive especially when you factor in the cap savings.
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 10:47 am : link
Jones looks like the logical replacement for Gus. If Trouba were moved, and I doubt they'd be able to without retaining salary, the like for like replacement would have to come from outside the organization. The savings probably end up being minimal. I'm still inclined to just keep him and ride it out. He's overpaid, to what degree opinions obviously vary, but there's still a role for him to play on and off the ice
RE: .  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 10:51 am : link
In comment 16529736 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
I genuinely have no idea what to do with Mika. Very good player who seems to be unable to consistently raise his game when he goes against the top centers in the league. You can trade him, but how are you filling that gap in the lineup? Can they finally find him a consistent right winger? Ultimately would still expect him back but if you're looking for a bold move, I think he's the one. The drop in 5v5 play this year was pretty alarming.


Agreed. It's why I suggested trading him in a similar deal to how he was acquired. The names that come to mind are Shane Wright, Trevor Zegras, Marco Rossi, and Elias Pettersson.


Zegras+ for Zibanjead is an idea. I would imagine the appeal for Anaheim, even though they're rebuilding, is having an established Swede for Leo Carlsson. IDK if Mika would waive there, but he might. He has a young daughter that I'm sure would love Disneyland.
RE: .  
Jon In NYC : 6/3/2024 10:52 am : link
In comment 16529766 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
Jones looks like the logical replacement for Gus. If Trouba were moved, and I doubt they'd be able to without retaining salary, the like for like replacement would have to come from outside the organization. The savings probably end up being minimal. I'm still inclined to just keep him and ride it out. He's overpaid, to what degree opinions obviously vary, but there's still a role for him to play on and off the ice


Retaining 25% of Trouba's salary costs 2M and 2M vs a full buyout which costs 4M, 4M, 2M, 2M, so a pretty big difference. Even retaining 50% saves them in years 3 and 4.
RE: The buch trade is frustrating  
ShockNRoll : 6/3/2024 10:52 am : link
In comment 16529727 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
as RW1 has been a revolving door ever since. But the misses on Kravtsov and Lias Anderrsen also suck. They were negated a bit by hitting on Chytil and Miller in the back of those first rounds, but getting something out of those picks would have also really helped this team.

Lindgren can't be resigned. The dude is a warrior but I on't want to see the same mistake that was made with Dan Girardi.

I think you need to move one of the 10/93/20 and if I had to pick one to move, it'd be 93, even if his value is at an all time low. Cant' stand to see 20 in another jersey, and his play is more a reflection of Mika. Bread is too valuable in the regular season and, IMO, was not a TOTAL no show in the ECF.


I knew this thread was going to bring up a lot of "ouch" hahaha. I try not to harp on the Buchnevich trade, because realistically, he was not going to sign here long-term. That said, that summer with the Buchnevich trade, not trading for Eichel, trading for and signing Reaves and Goodrow to over $6M in salary, all an overreaction to the Tom Wilson play.

The Buchnevich trade was, in my opinion, either a huge miscalculation by Drury thinking that one of Kakko or Kravtsov was going to be able to fill the 1RW spot, or the scenario that I am convinced is the case, he thought they were making the trade for Eichel.
RE: Trouba  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 10:57 am : link
In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.


He wouldn't be replaced by Jones. Gus is being replaced by Jones. The expectation would be that you acquire one or two puck-clearing defensemen to replace Trouba and possibly Lindgren with. This team needs more physicality, not less, and if Trouba and Lindgren are traded, you'll have 4 of the 6 defensemen be Fox, K'Andre, Schneider, and Jones. Soft and weak as Charmin shit. They would need to add toughness to replace Lindgren and size and muscle to replace Trouba.



I know you're more of the hockey analytics guy than I am, but I'm surprised you're not more critical of Trouba as the underlying analytics say he's been awful. As I posted in the OP:

Rob Luker
@RLuker12
Since being acquired by #NYR in 2019, Jacob Trouba's on & off ice goal results at 5v5, regular season & playoffs.

On Ice: 268 GF, 289 GA (48.1%)
Off Ice: 580 GF, 506 GA (53.4%)


That's our captain and 8M man.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/3/2024 10:57 am : link
Shock, re: Mika, I have pushback: A ton of players do decline around 30. It was a big reason I advocated for trading for Eichel. Guys like Kreider are the outliers.

Also, I don't think Mika is an enigma. He is somewhere around the 11th to 20th best center in the league and a streaky player. He gets pushed around by the guys in the top ten.
RE: RE: .  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 10:58 am : link
In comment 16529769 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 16529736 Kyle in NY said:


Quote:


I genuinely have no idea what to do with Mika. Very good player who seems to be unable to consistently raise his game when he goes against the top centers in the league. You can trade him, but how are you filling that gap in the lineup? Can they finally find him a consistent right winger? Ultimately would still expect him back but if you're looking for a bold move, I think he's the one. The drop in 5v5 play this year was pretty alarming.




Agreed. It's why I suggested trading him in a similar deal to how he was acquired. The names that come to mind are Shane Wright, Trevor Zegras, Marco Rossi, and Elias Pettersson.


Zegras+ for Zibanjead is an idea. I would imagine the appeal for Anaheim, even though they're rebuilding, is having an established Swede for Leo Carlsson. IDK if Mika would waive there, but he might. He has a young daughter that I'm sure would love Disneyland.


Yeah those are some interesting names. I appreciate you throwing them out there because it led me to do some digging. But Petterson is the only truly established player of that group and go look at what Canucks fans are saying about him coming out of that playoff run. He was a ghost. Zegras is a strange one. I find it odd that he keeps coming up in trade rumors when he should be considered a cornerstone of the Ducks rebuild. Makes me wonder. And does he bring the hard to play against element that Mika often fails to deliver? Not sure

The other two, I think you're just taking too big of a step back in the near term. Shane Wright has barely played in the NHL. When Gorton made that Zibanejad/Brassard trade I think he knew the run was ending and was starting to look ahead. I don't think we're there yet with this group.

But it's an interesting thought experiment
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/3/2024 11:00 am : link
I think if Trouba was on the open market, he would fetch between $4 and $6 million. He's absolutely tradeable.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/3/2024 11:01 am : link
Trouba's 5v5 play took a big step down this year too. Maybe he was hurt. More likely he's just a dman over 30. His 5v5 CF%rel went from 0.9% to -4.0%.
Is there a composite box score for ECF’s?  
Rick in Dallas : 6/3/2024 11:06 am : link
It would be very telling as to what players did what during the series?
You would probably see the best 3 forwards were LaFreniere, Trocheck and Goodrow. The Big 3 were just passengers. Cullye ,Chytil and Kakko tried to make a difference.
On defense you would probably see Trouba was a turnover machine but led the D in hits and blocked shots.
Gustafson was probably a net negative as well as Miller.

BTW, I don’t think Zac Jones would be a big defensive liability imv.
RE: RE: RE: Trouba  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 11:06 am : link
In comment 16529760 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529757 Jon In NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.



I don't follow too much non Ranger Hockey, is a lesser Torey Krug supposed to be an insult? I remember at one point he was a big name but things tend to change.



No, Torey Krug is not a bad player, but he's one dimensional. As he has gotten older he's rounded out a little bit but his first 5 or 6 years in the league he was offense only and a defensive liability in his own zone.


How is that different than Erik Karlsson or Kevin Shattenkirk or Tony DeAngelo? Karlsson is the extreme, but there's room for those type of PP specialists/undersized PMD in the NHL.

Regardless, Jones would get sheltered minutes on the third pair.
RE: .....  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 11:07 am : link
In comment 16529784 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think if Trouba was on the open market, he would fetch between $4 and $6 million. He's absolutely tradeable.


But the Rangers may have to eat 50% of his contract. Not ideal.



I would suspect that one place Trouba would 100% waive to is Detroit
RE: RE: Trouba  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 11:08 am : link
In comment 16529777 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.



He wouldn't be replaced by Jones. Gus is being replaced by Jones. The expectation would be that you acquire one or two crease-clearing defensemen to replace Trouba and possibly Lindgren with. This team needs more physicality, not less, and if Trouba and Lindgren are traded, you'll have 4 of the 6 defensemen be Fox, K'Andre, Schneider, and Jones. Soft and weak as Charmin shit. They would need to add toughness to replace Lindgren and size and muscle to replace Trouba.



I know you're more of the hockey analytics guy than I am, but I'm surprised you're not more critical of Trouba as the underlying analytics say he's been awful. As I posted in the OP:

Rob Luker
@RLuker12
Since being acquired by #NYR in 2019, Jacob Trouba's on & off ice goal results at 5v5, regular season & playoffs.

On Ice: 268 GF, 289 GA (48.1%)
Off Ice: 580 GF, 506 GA (53.4%)


That's our captain and 8M man.
RE: Is there a composite box score for ECF’s?  
pjcas18 : 6/3/2024 11:10 am : link
In comment 16529794 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
It would be very telling as to what players did what during the series?
You would probably see the best 3 forwards were LaFreniere, Trocheck and Goodrow. The Big 3 were just passengers. Cullye ,Chytil and Kakko tried to make a difference.
On defense you would probably see Trouba was a turnover machine but led the D in hits and blocked shots.
Gustafson was probably a net negative as well as Miller.

BTW, I don’t think Zac Jones would be a big defensive liability imv.


In the regular season and in the playoffs, Trouba had less turnovers than Schneider, Gus, and Miller and same amount as Fox

And yes, he led the D in blocked shots and hits. By a lot. For both.
RE: ....  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 11:11 am : link
In comment 16529779 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Also, I don't think Mika is an enigma. He is somewhere around the 11th to 20th best center in the league and a streaky player. He gets pushed around by the guys in the top ten.

I saw an X exchange about this earlier today - ( New Window )
RE: RE: .....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/3/2024 11:11 am : link
In comment 16529797 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 16529784 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I think if Trouba was on the open market, he would fetch between $4 and $6 million. He's absolutely tradeable.



But the Rangers may have to eat 50% of his contract. Not ideal.



I would suspect that one place Trouba would 100% waive to is Detroit


Sure, but if you assume my valuation is right, you can attach some assets to compensate for it and make someone eat it whole. A second or something like that.
What are those turnover numbers pj?  
Rick in Dallas : 6/3/2024 11:13 am : link
I’d like to o see them going into the offseason
RE: RE: RE: .....  
Jon In NYC : 6/3/2024 11:14 am : link
In comment 16529806 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529797 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 16529784 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I think if Trouba was on the open market, he would fetch between $4 and $6 million. He's absolutely tradeable.



But the Rangers may have to eat 50% of his contract. Not ideal.



I would suspect that one place Trouba would 100% waive to is Detroit



Sure, but if you assume my valuation is right, you can attach some assets to compensate for it and make someone eat it whole. A second or something like that.


This is 100% the move if they can pull it off
RE: What are those turnover numbers pj?  
pjcas18 : 6/3/2024 11:16 am : link
In comment 16529807 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
I’d like to o see them going into the offseason


it's not just the ECF, but from nhl.com (filtered to playoffs and NYR, misc category). Trouba also led the D in takeaways.

link below...


link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: .....  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 11:23 am : link
In comment 16529806 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529797 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 16529784 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I think if Trouba was on the open market, he would fetch between $4 and $6 million. He's absolutely tradeable.



But the Rangers may have to eat 50% of his contract. Not ideal.



I would suspect that one place Trouba would 100% waive to is Detroit



Sure, but if you assume my valuation is right, you can attach some assets to compensate for it and make someone eat it whole. A second or something like that.


True, or a prospect. I don't think we have any second or third rounders for the next few years.
RE: Is there a composite box score for ECF’s?  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 11:23 am : link
In comment 16529794 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
It would be very telling as to what players did what during the series?
You would probably see the best 3 forwards were LaFreniere, Trocheck and Goodrow. The Big 3 were just passengers. Cullye ,Chytil and Kakko tried to make a difference.
On defense you would probably see Trouba was a turnover machine but led the D in hits and blocked shots.
Gustafson was probably a net negative as well as Miller.

BTW, I don’t think Zac Jones would be a big defensive liability imv.


Goodrow actually got caved in. Lowest corsi/fenwick percentage on the team for the playoff at 31.8%. He scored 6 goals on 40% shooting. Credit to him for the timeliness of those goals, but essentially he just got hot while the overall play was not effective. Rangers should consider selling high off that playoff run
I'm curious how those turnover stats are compiled  
Greg from LI : 6/3/2024 11:23 am : link
All those times Trouba just flings the puck along the boards and there's an opponent sitting right there at the blue line who stops it and sends it back into the zone - are those counted as turnovers?
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 11:26 am : link
For reference, scroll down to "skater advanced statistics (playoffs)". Trocheck, Panarin, Lafreniere the only players on the team that were above 50% corsi or fenwick
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/3/2024 11:26 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I'm curious how those turnover stats are compiled  
pjcas18 : 6/3/2024 11:32 am : link
In comment 16529817 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
All those times Trouba just flings the puck along the boards and there's an opponent sitting right there at the blue line who stops it and sends it back into the zone - are those counted as turnovers?


it depends. if there is a NYR forward there then no, if there is no NYR teammate there and it's wrapped around to the other team then yes.

I also really don't understand the reluctance to break up  
Anakim : 6/3/2024 11:36 am : link
the Mika-Kreider pairing. Ever since we traded Buchnevich, they haven't been particularly effective, IMO. I don't have the stats, but just based on the eye test, their best work by far came on special teams. On 5V5, they were less than stellar. But Quinn, Gallant, and Laviolette refused to break them up.

Instead of playing musical chairs with the RW, I would've liked some different combos in the Florida series.
RE: ....  
ShockNRoll : 6/3/2024 11:38 am : link
In comment 16529779 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Shock, re: Mika, I have pushback: A ton of players do decline around 30. It was a big reason I advocated for trading for Eichel. Guys like Kreider are the outliers.

Also, I don't think Mika is an enigma. He is somewhere around the 11th to 20th best center in the league and a streaky player. He gets pushed around by the guys in the top ten.


I definitely don't disagree with where he is ranked among centers, and maybe he is starting to decline. I just don't see that as the reason, because I think this was just a down year for him, but maybe I'm wrong. I am admittedly a Mika apologist, though this year/playoff run have definitely made me start questioning him as a long-term 1C. I do believe having a legit top line RW could make a big difference for him, and unfortunately, the only way they fill that role I think is through free agency.
RE: RE: RE: Trouba  
pjcas18 : 6/3/2024 11:39 am : link
In comment 16529800 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 16529777 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 16529748 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is absolutely tradeable once he submits his 15 team list.

He does not have nearly the negative view around the league that Rangers fans have of him.

I kind of hope he's traded and replaced in the lineup by Jones and then the fans get what they deserve. Jones looks like a lesser Torey Krug.



He wouldn't be replaced by Jones. Gus is being replaced by Jones. The expectation would be that you acquire one or two crease-clearing defensemen to replace Trouba and possibly Lindgren with. This team needs more physicality, not less, and if Trouba and Lindgren are traded, you'll have 4 of the 6 defensemen be Fox, K'Andre, Schneider, and Jones. Soft and weak as Charmin shit. They would need to add toughness to replace Lindgren and size and muscle to replace Trouba.



I know you're more of the hockey analytics guy than I am, but I'm surprised you're not more critical of Trouba as the underlying analytics say he's been awful. As I posted in the OP:

Rob Luker
@RLuker12
Since being acquired by #NYR in 2019, Jacob Trouba's on & off ice goal results at 5v5, regular season & playoffs.

On Ice: 268 GF, 289 GA (48.1%)
Off Ice: 580 GF, 506 GA (53.4%)


That's our captain and 8M man.



I am not really an analytics person if you are using them to evaluate an individual. Hockey just isn't that game. If you are using them to help explain what you saw then I think they have some utility.

But stats like corsi, fenwick, xGF and xGA, etc. that are really 5 person unit stats are not good indicators of the whole story IMO. especially when applying individual blame or success when it's a 5-person unit that has the success and it doesn't consider the 5-person unit you played against.

except for a goalie. xGF and xGA I do think are good indicators of when a goalie steals a game or loses a game (even though that's never the whole story).

Great fun season with a terribly disappointing ending  
arniefez : 6/3/2024 11:48 am : link
I don't agree with the comparison to the Cat era. Jean Ratelle was every bit the player that Stan Mikta was and Brad Park being the 2nd best defensemen in the NHL behind Bobby Orr was an advantage over every other team.

Non one will ever change my mind that the 1971-72 Rangers would have won the cup if they didn't lose Ratelle.

The current Rangers 1st line wasn't tough enough to handle the Panthers. They also had one of their key players (Fox) extremely limited which hurt the PP and exposed him on defense.

The Rangers #1 need by a mile is a power RW to elevate their supposed "1st line" which needs to get 2nd line minutes next year. Trocheck, Panarin and Lafreniere have earned the right to be the 1st line and the 1st PP with Kreider and Fox.
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