I think that's right. I've said all along, I think there is a wide range of outcomes for this team. God forbid Dexter goes down for an extended period, for example. But I do feel that last year we suffered more than our share of impactful injuries, so there's that. Plus, the way I look at it --nobody can anticipate all the question marks. Why not embrace the positive potential over walking around with our tail between our legs all the time? I do feel better about our current coach and GM than prior. These may not be the guys, I'm not guaranteeing they are. But the prior administration was much more clearly NOT the guys at a similar point, IMO. So I've elected to stay positive, by choice.
That’s fine as is your choice. While others may want to see at least a few tangible indicators that the team could be heading in a positive direction before simply embracing it.
And projecting less than positive doesn’t mean fans are typically walking around with their tails between their legs. I think that may be more reserved for those expecting and/or touting the presumptive positive and then watching the losses pile up again as matter of fact.
That is fair Thomas. I was not saying others have tail between legs, so much as I was indicating that I choose not to. It's a personal choice in disposition given the absence of of certainty one way or another, if that makes sense.
Ok Uber. Let's move on as to our personal choices of being a NYG fan.
Jones' performance in '22-solid, not speculator-tells me more that Dabs is a good coach than it tells me anything re. Jones.
Thank you for proving my case: (from above) Can only chuckle when Dunk and Terps et al plaintively ask "How am I denying 2022?' cause of course they are because the hole in their whole premise that we 'can never win as long as DJ is the QB' is refuted by the fact that we did win that year with DJ playing a huge role. So we have to cherry pick some negative stats or claim the playoff win was meaningless because the Vikings didn't have a good defence. and now give all the credit to the coach. Anything but hey the guy played pretty well that year without much around him. And on and on and on they go!!
Post of the Day winner in my book. Congrats!
If it is fact that the Giants won in 2022 with DJ playing a huge role, will you stipulate that he also plays a huge role in the more-frequent losing over his career? Or does it only go one-way?
My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
That's because our standards for the Giants are on the floor.
RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
We’ll always have Minnesota Joe.
RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
WTF are you talking about. If you take the past 5 years the Giants were 14-35 in the first three years of that period; in the last two they were 16-19-1. If you'd take the blinders off you'd realize that things have gotten better. We're not there yet but we're getting there.
RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
Um... This administration with a new coaching staff and nearly a complete turnover of the roster is 1-1 in terms of good seasons verses bad. You're obviously convinced they are going to suck. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. But we are going to find out.
My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
That's because our standards for the Giants are on the floor.
True. But being one of the last 8 teams standing isn’t a bad year, especially for a low talent roster.
Some things went well for us and DJ’s overall play absolutely contributed positivity.
We have a sense of which teams are good and which aren't. If you can find any betting site that has each team in the league at 32:1 odds to win the Super Bowl, please share it so that we can bet the good teams with a chance at those odds.
Most places I look have the Giants at 150-1 to win the Super Bowl. That's a great bet if you think they have the same chance as the Chiefs, 49ers, etc.
will probably look something like this. Daniel plays 14 games. In most of them he throws for around 200 yards, 1 TD, and 0.5 INTs on a steady diet of short, conservative passes. He has a few good games and a few stinkers. There are a handful of injuries along the OL and WRs. We win 7 games and Daniel and Nabers have 1 really good game late in the year.
We are in position to draft a stud RT. If we shore up some weaknesses and get some better health, we'll see a real Make or Break Year in 2025.
RE: RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
Um... This administration with a new coaching staff and nearly a complete turnover of the roster is 1-1 in terms of good seasons verses bad. You're obviously convinced they are going to suck. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. But we are going to find out.
I am not convinced the Giants are going to suck. They will beat some teams here and there but not much else.
I am convinced however that they aren’t going anywhere sans an upgrade at QB. And I don’t know how that happens when they continue to pass on drafting one and keep putting non-solutions to the problem out on the field.
They are not a contender without a major upgrade at QB
Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
WTF are you talking about. If you take the past 5 years the Giants were 14-35 in the first three years of that period; in the last two they were 16-19-1. If you'd take the blinders off you'd realize that things have gotten better. We're not there yet but we're getting there.
You just described two losing periods as something meaningful.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
You just described two losing periods as something meaningful.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
Thomas: Not sure if you are just being disingenuous or you're just effing stupid of stubborn to recognize that 14-35 and 16-19 are not the same. You'd also know that teams just don't go from 14-35 to 35-14 in 2-3 seasons.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
You just described two losing periods as something meaningful.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
Thomas: Not sure if you are just being disingenuous or you're just effing stupid of stubborn to recognize that 14-35 and 16-19 are not the same. You'd also know that teams just don't go from 14-35 to 35-14 in 2-3 seasons.
Here is what you struggle seeing…they are the same. They are losing stretches of football. They aren’t even average.
And teams can improve significantly in short periods of time. But they are typically are associated with finding the right solution at QB.
However, I can assure you losing teams that go through losing stretches while not even trying to improve at QB, have very little chance. And by the way, I’m being nice by not saying no chance.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
I can assure you losing teams that go through losing stretches while not even trying to improve at QB, have very little chance. And by the way, I’m being nice by not saying no chance.
You're not being nice, you're being cowardly. If you believe they have no chance, have the balls to say it. Don't try to have your cake and eat it too. If you were really being nice, you would've just left it at very little chance.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
I can assure you losing teams that go through losing stretches while not even trying to improve at QB, have very little chance. And by the way, I’m being nice by not saying no chance.
You're not being nice, you're being cowardly. If you believe they have no chance, have the balls to say it. Don't try to have your cake and eat it too. If you were really being nice, you would've just left it at very little chance.
My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
That's because our standards for the Giants are on the floor.
You just described two losing periods as something meaningful.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
Thomas: Not sure if you are just being disingenuous or you're just effing stupid of stubborn to recognize that 14-35 and 16-19 are not the same. You'd also know that teams just don't go from 14-35 to 35-14 in 2-3 seasons.
Timmy, I don't think you get to call anyone else stupid OR stubborn.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
You're not being nice, you're being cowardly. If you believe they have no chance, have the balls to say it. Don't try to have your cake and eat it too. If you were really being nice, you would've just left it at very little chance.
Maybe it was sarcasm.
😉
Haha well played!
RE: RE: RE: The good thing about all the back and forth speculation...
Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
WTF are you talking about. If you take the past 5 years the Giants were 14-35 in the first three years of that period; in the last two they were 16-19-1. If you'd take the blinders off you'd realize that things have gotten better. We're not there yet but we're getting there.
Whatyou and others don't seem to understand is that "We aren't going anywhere" of signifinance without a QB that is a any combo of beiing better and healthy."
You need to take your blinders off and put away the pom poms.
And you will probbaly say this again next year.
And next year,
And next year.
Of course. It's true every year, whether they do well or not.
Nor do we know if Judge could have ben a HOF coach the next year. Or know if DG could have been an excelent GM with 1 more year.
But it's called "reasonable expectation."
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
Hey I'll go you one better. In fact I can almost guarantee that the Giants don't win more than 14 games next year. Was a 'reasonable expectation' that the Giants would win 10 games in 2022 after going 4-13 the previous. No way. Was it even a reasonable expectation that they'd start 1-4 they next year and finish 6-11. Probably not. So stuff your reasonable expectations and let's play out the season.
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
Hey I'll go you one better. In fact I can almost guarantee that the Giants don't win more than 14 games next year. Was a 'reasonable expectation' that the Giants would win 10 games in 2022 after going 4-13 the previous. No way. Was it even a reasonable expectation that they'd start 1-4 they next year and finish 6-11. Probably not. So stuff your reasonable expectations and let's play out the season.
And yet the poster that is siding more toward your warped view was the one that's more in denial about reasonable excpectations.
And to imply/suggest it wouldn;t ahve been reaosoable they start last year 1-4 is just more of the lunacy some you keep coming up with. They have one good year over hwo many and yet you're oblivious to the possibility of a 1-4 start? Only a cheerleader could think like that.
I'm supsrised you didn't post more about that cheerleading as you did previously. Maybe you can give the team a hug. Sorry to defuse your pom pom waiving.
And you will probbaly say this again next year.
And next year,
And next year.
Of course. It's true every year, whether they do well or not.
Nor do we know if Judge could have ben a HOF coach the next year. Or know if DG could have been an excelent GM with 1 more year.
But it's called "reasonable expectation."
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
And your point is what, exactly? That you don't think they are going to be good? Congratulations. Like I said, we will find out.
And yet the poster that is siding more toward your warped view was the one that's more in denial about reasonable excpectations.
[/quote] If this is in reference to me, that's actually pretty funny. Go back and re-read.
And yet the poster that is siding more toward your warped view was the one that's more in denial about reasonable excpectations.
If this is in reference to me, that's actually pretty funny. Go back and re-read. [/quote]
First off note I said “more toward . . .” Those words were not accident. Anyhow, this is what you said on another thread: Following up immediately with a 2nd post to address what you have said.
=========================
IMO, there is a very broad range of outcomes when it comes to Jones
UberAlias : 5/21/2024 8:58 am : link : reply
On the negative side, we could easily see the exact same as we saw last year from him. Most specifically, being too skittish to attack down field. If that's what we get, I don't see any way he will remain the starter for long. I don't see how Daboll drafted the most explosive player in the draft and is taking over plan calling duties to have all of that fall on a guy who all he does is check down. Lock is not a great option, but he won't have that issue and we saw this team compete last year when TT was in there attacking vertically. We should have that one way or another this year.
On the positive side, it is possible we get the version of Jones the team was hoping for last year, which is one that can do what he showed in 2022 but taking a step forward with better talent around him. He has the physical ability as I think we saw a bit of in his rookie year and we also saw in training camp last year.
The later is a best case, and although I do think it is a possible outcome, we shouldn't confuse that with the idea that Jones is a long term answer. IN some sense I think people under estimate just how in a funk this team, especially the offense, was early on last year. Yes, that does happen in football --we saw it in Philly last year as an example (we beat them the last time this team was on the field, remember?). But while I do believe that is the case and thus am more open to a different outcome going forward than most are --we learned beyond a doubt that when adversity hits, especially the oline, Jones doesn't have it in him to step up. He curls into a shell.
So while I am far from sharing the view that this 2024 season is lost --contrary, I believe we will likely compete. But in terms of building a contender, we're still missing that most critical piece, which I think is an obvious statement.
You made the abobe post Uber . Well in the past I’ve been wrong on some things but I was right about Barkley not taking him. I was right about jones not taking him. I was right about DG being a buffoon. I despised taking Soldier because I felt team should have bene in rebuild. As I felt after 2022 the Giants shouldn’t have signed him for the money they did. Once they made some of these moves – I was all-in to try to make the most. One of the most important things I felt was build your OL. They haven’t done it—though this year they appear to have come the closest – maybe.
So it seems we might have a good OL but it seems mediocre to me. And SY indicated in one post there are lot of Maybes. So, as a fan, how am I not supposed to be pissed to some degree that I agree with you that we aren’t building a contender with Jones while we potentially passed on some QB’'s that might be better? Which I feel they should have been taken. And so did SY as well as quite a few analysts.
My point is that WE DO HAVE ANSWERS WHICH YOU CLAIM WE DON”T. IE YOU ARE MORE FAVORED TO SNRKELS THAN SOME OF US THAT FEEL WE ARE RIGHT. Yet we have to understand that The RISK IS NOT WORTH THE REWARD with Jones due to his injury issues and overall the belief we will never be a contender with him. So, if I feel that I’m right, just as I was above (I have ben wrong about a lot of things too), and one of those QB’s hit while Giants flounder in mediocrity, how can I not feel that JS and Daboll are not clowns? And your view of trying to be positive – I feel is way off base. Keep in mind I used ot fight a ton with GoTerps and Gatrorade on Jones. At some point though “enough is enough.”
Yet you continue to post “we don’t know.” But we more-than-likely we do. You can’t try to twist this into a court of law. But imo you’re just in denial just like snorkles by the very comment “we don’t know” highlights this.
And your point is what, exactly? That you don't think they are going to be good? Congratulations. Like I said, we will find out.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
To be honest G-stock I have no idea what you are talking about, but let me try one last time. Is it a reasonable expectation that Jones doesn't play well or the OL improvement is a mirage or that the young receivers need more time to develop and its another disappointing season BUT it is also a reasonable expectation that Jones does play closer to his 2022 form, the OL is finally at least competent, that the young receivers finally provide the Giants with a big-play component, and that the young DL starts to consistently disrupt other teams passing attacks such that the Giants again at least compete for a playoff spot. I don't know which is going to happen. You sure as hell don't know which is going to happen. What sane people are willing to do is wait and see how the season plays out rather than shooting our mouths off that all is lost before they've played a down.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
To be honest G-stock I have no idea what you are talking about, but let me try one last time. Is it a reasonable expectation that Jones doesn't play well or the OL improvement is a mirage or that the young receivers need more time to develop and its another disappointing season BUT it is also a reasonable expectation that Jones does play closer to his 2022 form, the OL is finally at least competent, that the young receivers finally provide the Giants with a big-play component, and that the young DL starts to consistently disrupt other teams passing attacks such that the Giants again at least compete for a playoff spot. I don't know which is going to happen. You sure as hell don't know which is going to happen. What sane people are willing to do is wait and see how the season plays out rather than shooting our mouths off that all is lost before they've played a down.
But here is what I am trying to say with you and uber- please don't take my 8 win post in the manner you did - but if they get 8 wins - and yet as what uber states which many us believe as well- - - when uber said
"But in terms of building a contender, we're still missing that most critical piece, which I think is an obvious statement."
If anyone believes this which I do - then where is the 8 win season taking us? And long term what's the plan to work toward being a contender?
The only thing I can see is that they remain mediocre and draft trenches until we're more that mediocre. And I saw this dart they didn't take any trenches. True they got Burns in a trade and they got some OL in FA but if we're not building to be a contender, why waste money to be mediocre?
Just so you can say "we want to compete be mediocre?"
And your point is what, exactly? That you don't think they are going to be good? Congratulations. Like I said, we will find out.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
I have not moved the goal post at all. I have maintained that there are legitimate arguments to be made for this team having a successful year or a bad one. And yet the pessimistic crowd continues to take objection to this like it's some crazy take. I've not taken away from the negative arguments other than offering that there are also counter arguments. I've literally acknowledged there is truth to them, yet for some reason many, including you, are having a hard time with anyone who doesn't agree that it's a certainty that the team is going to suck. In a neutral stance, I merely reflected that despite all the back and forth in the end we'll get to find out which side was right, and that was somehow objectionable to you.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
To be honest G-stock I have no idea what you are talking about, but let me try one last time. Is it a reasonable expectation that Jones doesn't play well or the OL improvement is a mirage or that the young receivers need more time to develop and its another disappointing season BUT it is also a reasonable expectation that Jones does play closer to his 2022 form, the OL is finally at least competent, that the young receivers finally provide the Giants with a big-play component, and that the young DL starts to consistently disrupt other teams passing attacks such that the Giants again at least compete for a playoff spot. I don't know which is going to happen. You sure as hell don't know which is going to happen. What sane people are willing to do is wait and see how the season plays out rather than shooting our mouths off that all is lost before they've played a down.
The way that this team has played for a decade, it is a reasonable expectation that they will stink.
That said, it is also reasonable that they will finish with a winning record.
It is possible that Jones will exceed his 2022 performance. We know that the coach has had success in his 3rd year with a toolsy and marginally effective QB.
At the end of the day, all arguments are on the table. But, "we shall see" is the only thing that resonates.
The way that this team has played for a decade, it is a reasonable expectation that they will stink.
That's an interesting statement and I guess it has some validity especially if nothing has changed. My thinking though has always been that in the end "the only season that matters is the one in front of you." And personally at this point I couldn't care less what happened 5 or 10 years ago. Those were different teams with largely different players. What I'm doing is looking at the team in front of us and thinking that it will in fact be very disappointing if this team doesn't win 9-10 games and compete for a playoff spot, at least barring one or two major units being wiped out by injuries. And I say that because it looks like the OL should finally be at least competent, that with the young receivers the Giants have the real potential for an explosive big-play offence, and that with the young DL group we have the potential for a very disruptive defence. Of course, the elephant in the room remains the QB situation, but actual football people who know far more about NFL QBs than anyone in this room who who have worked with the guy every day for several years now seem to think that Jones has the physical tools, mental make-up and work ethic to be successful in the league if given some tools to work with. Time will tell.
I appreciate the standard set in this community, that:
1) most participants are here to debate and learn about football
2) there's always been a burden of proof in debates
That we can be bust each other's chops along the way, but then move on to the next topic in good faith, has always been a feature not a defect on this site.
What I do find very bizarre (this is not directed to Brown Hornet), is an upswing in contributions around the idea of "well we don't know, so why are we talking about it?"
No shit, of course we don't know. We're all simply making guesses and debating with the facts we have.
I appreciate the standard set in this community, that:
1) most participants are here to debate and learn about football
2) there's always been a burden of proof in debates
That we can be bust each other's chops along the way, but then move on to the next topic in good faith, has always been a feature not a defect on this site.
What I do find very bizarre (this is not directed to Brown Hornet), is an upswing in contributions around the idea of "well we don't know, so why are we talking about it?"
No shit, of course we don't know. We're all simply making guesses and debating with the facts we have.
I think that if absolutes were removed from the conversation that we'd have better debates and healthier interaction.
Many of the "facts" that we debate with are circumstantial and therefore, debatable in and of themselves.
Some come here for information only. They should be prepared for hot takes from all directions because while we don't know...we should be talking about it.
When the optimists declare that only time is entitled to opinions
We have our answer as to the quality of this team. The Athletic frankly could not be more spot on in their ranking. I actually believe there is a good chance that the Munich game will decide who the worst team in the NFL is in 2024. It will be the ultimate Toilettenschüssel!
We actually know this team will not be good. The quarterback and running back rooms are the very worst in the entire NFL. The OL is fixed? Runyan is simply the next Glowinski. Evan Neal is terrible. JMS needs to step up big time or enter into the "is he a bust?" debate next year. The defense has clearly been upgraded and may be good this year, but like 2017, they won't be good in the second half of games when they are gassed from being on the field seventy percent of the time.
The only question is, will the Giants win more than five games and destroy any chance again of getting an elite quarterback prospect in the 2025 draft? My guess is no and they will indeed have a top three pick next year, but I am apparently not entitled to this opinion since it is only time that can tell such things...
We have our answer as to the quality of this team. The Athletic frankly could not be more spot on in their ranking. I actually believe there is a good chance that the Munich game will decide who the worst team in the NFL is in 2024. It will be the ultimate Toilettenschüssel!
We actually know this team will not be good. The quarterback and running back rooms are the very worst in the entire NFL. The OL is fixed? Runyan is simply the next Glowinski. Evan Neal is terrible. JMS needs to step up big time or enter into the "is he a bust?" debate next year. The defense has clearly been upgraded and may be good this year, but like 2017, they won't be good in the second half of games when they are gassed from being on the field seventy percent of the time.
The only question is, will the Giants win more than five games and destroy any chance again of getting an elite quarterback prospect in the 2025 draft? My guess is no and they will indeed have a top three pick next year, but I am apparently not entitled to this opinion since it is only time that can tell such things...
And your point is what, exactly? That you don't think they are going to be good? Congratulations. Like I said, we will find out.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
I have not moved the goal post at all. I have maintained that there are legitimate arguments to be made for this team having a successful year or a bad one. And yet the pessimistic crowd continues to take objection to this like it's some crazy take. I've not taken away from the negative arguments other than offering that there are also counter arguments. I've literally acknowledged there is truth to them, yet for some reason many, including you, are having a hard time with anyone who doesn't agree that it's a certainty that the team is going to suck. In a neutral stance, I merely reflected that despite all the back and forth in the end we'll get to find out which side was right, and that was somehow objectionable to you.
OFC you have. Your past post that we don't know the answers is in reply to posters opinions beliefs that Giants won't be good. Even your reply to me is featuring us "naysayers." Yet on another thread as I pointed out you imply Jones is a big issue and you identify the alternatives while continuing to go after those of us that believe that the Giants will not be good. How is it that we’re wrong if you also acknowledge that Jones is a long term issue?
why don't you just say "we don't know the answers" - which you hide behind instead of taking a stand - and follow that up with "we can go 17-0 or 0-17 this team depending on how each player plays?" That's basically what you're saying and trying desperately to go after the naysayers.
If you are who I think you are- you and I have been in agreement for a long time about the trenches. But if this is you- somehow you've been twisted into minimizing QB play which is why you might be more reluctant to criticize the non QB pick.
If you do believe Jones is an issue (and you are not minimizing QB play) then why are you hiding behind the comment "we don’t; know?" These are opinions form those of us that believe we are right that the QB play long terms from Jones will impact this franchise in a negative way. You are just playing both sides of the fence while moving the goalposts whenever it suits you.
IF he stays healthy AND we get production from the running game. As Go Terps stats showed, we were running the ball a lot.
But we won't do any better than 2022. 2022 was Daniel Jones at his best...and that "best" wasn't good enough to beat the upper echelon teams. And if in 2024, you think a game manager is going to get to the Super Bowl, you may want to adjust your meds. The rule changes have made having a top echelon QB a requirement to contend.
Daniel Jones is a poor man's Alex Smith. That's what he is. Kansas City was never going to win a championship with Smith, even with one of the best QB guru's around (Andy Reid), and their organization knew it. That's why he was replaced.
Was Smith a good player? Sure, he was good, he won a lot of games. But he wasn't going to beat teams with upper echelon QB's. Kurt Cousins, who has to be considered a better QB than DJ, hasn't been able to beat the upper echelon teams as well. It's no shame, it's just reality.
The real rebuild will start in 2025, when the Giants make a decision on the QB position. The key is to build the team up so that we can have a similar path that KC had when they replaced Smith with Mahomes.
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In comment 16530154 UberAlias said:
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I think that's right. I've said all along, I think there is a wide range of outcomes for this team. God forbid Dexter goes down for an extended period, for example. But I do feel that last year we suffered more than our share of impactful injuries, so there's that. Plus, the way I look at it --nobody can anticipate all the question marks. Why not embrace the positive potential over walking around with our tail between our legs all the time? I do feel better about our current coach and GM than prior. These may not be the guys, I'm not guaranteeing they are. But the prior administration was much more clearly NOT the guys at a similar point, IMO. So I've elected to stay positive, by choice.
That’s fine as is your choice. While others may want to see at least a few tangible indicators that the team could be heading in a positive direction before simply embracing it.
And projecting less than positive doesn’t mean fans are typically walking around with their tails between their legs. I think that may be more reserved for those expecting and/or touting the presumptive positive and then watching the losses pile up again as matter of fact.
That is fair Thomas. I was not saying others have tail between legs, so much as I was indicating that I choose not to. It's a personal choice in disposition given the absence of of certainty one way or another, if that makes sense.
Ok Uber. Let's move on as to our personal choices of being a NYG fan.
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Jones' performance in '22-solid, not speculator-tells me more that Dabs is a good coach than it tells me anything re. Jones.
Thank you for proving my case: (from above) Can only chuckle when Dunk and Terps et al plaintively ask "How am I denying 2022?' cause of course they are because the hole in their whole premise that we 'can never win as long as DJ is the QB' is refuted by the fact that we did win that year with DJ playing a huge role. So we have to cherry pick some negative stats or claim the playoff win was meaningless because the Vikings didn't have a good defence. and now give all the credit to the coach. Anything but hey the guy played pretty well that year without much around him. And on and on and on they go!!
Post of the Day winner in my book. Congrats!
If it is fact that the Giants won in 2022 with DJ playing a huge role, will you stipulate that he also plays a huge role in the more-frequent losing over his career? Or does it only go one-way?
We have five years of answer. Some of it good, more of it bad.
The only reason some don't accept the answer is simply denial.
What did they win?
Seems like a good year to me.
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My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
That's because our standards for the Giants are on the floor.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
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My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
We’ll always have Minnesota Joe.
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Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
WTF are you talking about. If you take the past 5 years the Giants were 14-35 in the first three years of that period; in the last two they were 16-19-1. If you'd take the blinders off you'd realize that things have gotten better. We're not there yet but we're getting there.
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Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
Um... This administration with a new coaching staff and nearly a complete turnover of the roster is 1-1 in terms of good seasons verses bad. You're obviously convinced they are going to suck. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. But we are going to find out.
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In comment 16530818 Go Terps said:
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My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
That's because our standards for the Giants are on the floor.
Some things went well for us and DJ’s overall play absolutely contributed positivity.
We have a sense of which teams are good and which aren't. If you can find any betting site that has each team in the league at 32:1 odds to win the Super Bowl, please share it so that we can bet the good teams with a chance at those odds.
Most places I look have the Giants at 150-1 to win the Super Bowl. That's a great bet if you think they have the same chance as the Chiefs, 49ers, etc.
We are in position to draft a stud RT. If we shore up some weaknesses and get some better health, we'll see a real Make or Break Year in 2025.
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In comment 16530840 UberAlias said:
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Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
Um... This administration with a new coaching staff and nearly a complete turnover of the roster is 1-1 in terms of good seasons verses bad. You're obviously convinced they are going to suck. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. But we are going to find out.
I am not convinced the Giants are going to suck. They will beat some teams here and there but not much else.
I am convinced however that they aren’t going anywhere sans an upgrade at QB. And I don’t know how that happens when they continue to pass on drafting one and keep putting non-solutions to the problem out on the field.
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In comment 16530840 UberAlias said:
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Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
WTF are you talking about. If you take the past 5 years the Giants were 14-35 in the first three years of that period; in the last two they were 16-19-1. If you'd take the blinders off you'd realize that things have gotten better. We're not there yet but we're getting there.
You just described two losing periods as something meaningful.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
Thomas: Not sure if you are just being disingenuous or you're just effing stupid of stubborn to recognize that 14-35 and 16-19 are not the same. You'd also know that teams just don't go from 14-35 to 35-14 in 2-3 seasons.
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You just described two losing periods as something meaningful.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
Thomas: Not sure if you are just being disingenuous or you're just effing stupid of stubborn to recognize that 14-35 and 16-19 are not the same. You'd also know that teams just don't go from 14-35 to 35-14 in 2-3 seasons.
Here is what you struggle seeing…they are the same. They are losing stretches of football. They aren’t even average.
And teams can improve significantly in short periods of time. But they are typically are associated with finding the right solution at QB.
However, I can assure you losing teams that go through losing stretches while not even trying to improve at QB, have very little chance. And by the way, I’m being nice by not saying no chance.
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I can assure you losing teams that go through losing stretches while not even trying to improve at QB, have very little chance. And by the way, I’m being nice by not saying no chance.
You're not being nice, you're being cowardly. If you believe they have no chance, have the balls to say it. Don't try to have your cake and eat it too. If you were really being nice, you would've just left it at very little chance.
Maybe it was sarcasm.
😉
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In comment 16530818 Go Terps said:
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My recollection is they went 10-8-1, finished third in the division, went 1-5-1 in the division, went 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, and were absolutely destroyed in Philly to end the year.
What did they win?
My recollection is the we won enough games to make the playoffs and then won a playoff game - leading to our 3rd deepest playoff run in over 20 years. I can also recall going 10-3-1 against all teams other than Philly and Dallas.
Seems like a good year to me.
That's because our standards for the Giants are on the floor.
For some, yes.
FTFY.
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You just described two losing periods as something meaningful.
You should have saved it for Wednesday and gone back-to-back with Post of the Day awards.
Thomas: Not sure if you are just being disingenuous or you're just effing stupid of stubborn to recognize that 14-35 and 16-19 are not the same. You'd also know that teams just don't go from 14-35 to 35-14 in 2-3 seasons.
Timmy, I don't think you get to call anyone else stupid OR stubborn.
Maybe it was sarcasm.
😉
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In comment 16530840 UberAlias said:
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Is that in the end, we'll have an answer, one way or another. One side will be right, and the other will be wrong.
The end of this season we’ll have an answer to what? In the past 5 years we’ve changed everything out with this franchise other than the owner and the starting QB and the net outcome has barely changed.
But this is the season where some epiphany happens as to right versus wrong?
WTF are you talking about. If you take the past 5 years the Giants were 14-35 in the first three years of that period; in the last two they were 16-19-1. If you'd take the blinders off you'd realize that things have gotten better. We're not there yet but we're getting there.
Whatyou and others don't seem to understand is that "We aren't going anywhere" of signifinance without a QB that is a any combo of beiing better and healthy."
You need to take your blinders off and put away the pom poms.
And you will probbaly say this again next year.
And next year,
And next year.
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for how the season will go.
And you will probbaly say this again next year.
And next year,
And next year.
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In comment 16530848 UberAlias said:
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for how the season will go.
And you will probbaly say this again next year.
And next year,
And next year.
Of course. It's true every year, whether they do well or not.
Nor do we know if Judge could have ben a HOF coach the next year. Or know if DG could have been an excelent GM with 1 more year.
But it's called "reasonable expectation."
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
Hey I'll go you one better. In fact I can almost guarantee that the Giants don't win more than 14 games next year. Was a 'reasonable expectation' that the Giants would win 10 games in 2022 after going 4-13 the previous. No way. Was it even a reasonable expectation that they'd start 1-4 they next year and finish 6-11. Probably not. So stuff your reasonable expectations and let's play out the season.
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But it's called "reasonable expectation."
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
Hey I'll go you one better. In fact I can almost guarantee that the Giants don't win more than 14 games next year. Was a 'reasonable expectation' that the Giants would win 10 games in 2022 after going 4-13 the previous. No way. Was it even a reasonable expectation that they'd start 1-4 they next year and finish 6-11. Probably not. So stuff your reasonable expectations and let's play out the season.
And yet the poster that is siding more toward your warped view was the one that's more in denial about reasonable excpectations.
And to imply/suggest it wouldn;t ahve been reaosoable they start last year 1-4 is just more of the lunacy some you keep coming up with. They have one good year over hwo many and yet you're oblivious to the possibility of a 1-4 start? Only a cheerleader could think like that.
I'm supsrised you didn't post more about that cheerleading as you did previously. Maybe you can give the team a hug. Sorry to defuse your pom pom waiving.
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In comment 16531234 giantstock said:
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In comment 16530848 UberAlias said:
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for how the season will go.
And you will probbaly say this again next year.
And next year,
And next year.
Of course. It's true every year, whether they do well or not.
Nor do we know if Judge could have ben a HOF coach the next year. Or know if DG could have been an excelent GM with 1 more year.
But it's called "reasonable expectation."
Reasonable expectation is that this is not a good team.
And a further reasonable expectation - is that if they improve to win 7/8 games, then that it is harder to get get a better opportunity to get the QB you might want.
Reasoable expectation is that they arent going to win more than 8 games.
And yet the poster that is siding more toward your warped view was the one that's more in denial about reasonable excpectations.
[/quote] If this is in reference to me, that's actually pretty funny. Go back and re-read.
And yet the poster that is siding more toward your warped view was the one that's more in denial about reasonable excpectations.
First off note I said “more toward . . .” Those words were not accident. Anyhow, this is what you said on another thread: Following up immediately with a 2nd post to address what you have said.
=========================
IMO, there is a very broad range of outcomes when it comes to Jones
UberAlias : 5/21/2024 8:58 am : link : reply
On the negative side, we could easily see the exact same as we saw last year from him. Most specifically, being too skittish to attack down field. If that's what we get, I don't see any way he will remain the starter for long. I don't see how Daboll drafted the most explosive player in the draft and is taking over plan calling duties to have all of that fall on a guy who all he does is check down. Lock is not a great option, but he won't have that issue and we saw this team compete last year when TT was in there attacking vertically. We should have that one way or another this year.
On the positive side, it is possible we get the version of Jones the team was hoping for last year, which is one that can do what he showed in 2022 but taking a step forward with better talent around him. He has the physical ability as I think we saw a bit of in his rookie year and we also saw in training camp last year.
The later is a best case, and although I do think it is a possible outcome, we shouldn't confuse that with the idea that Jones is a long term answer. IN some sense I think people under estimate just how in a funk this team, especially the offense, was early on last year. Yes, that does happen in football --we saw it in Philly last year as an example (we beat them the last time this team was on the field, remember?). But while I do believe that is the case and thus am more open to a different outcome going forward than most are --we learned beyond a doubt that when adversity hits, especially the oline, Jones doesn't have it in him to step up. He curls into a shell.
So while I am far from sharing the view that this 2024 season is lost --contrary, I believe we will likely compete. But in terms of building a contender, we're still missing that most critical piece, which I think is an obvious statement.
====================
So it seems we might have a good OL but it seems mediocre to me. And SY indicated in one post there are lot of Maybes. So, as a fan, how am I not supposed to be pissed to some degree that I agree with you that we aren’t building a contender with Jones while we potentially passed on some QB’'s that might be better? Which I feel they should have been taken. And so did SY as well as quite a few analysts.
My point is that WE DO HAVE ANSWERS WHICH YOU CLAIM WE DON”T. IE YOU ARE MORE FAVORED TO SNRKELS THAN SOME OF US THAT FEEL WE ARE RIGHT. Yet we have to understand that The RISK IS NOT WORTH THE REWARD with Jones due to his injury issues and overall the belief we will never be a contender with him. So, if I feel that I’m right, just as I was above (I have ben wrong about a lot of things too), and one of those QB’s hit while Giants flounder in mediocrity, how can I not feel that JS and Daboll are not clowns? And your view of trying to be positive – I feel is way off base. Keep in mind I used ot fight a ton with GoTerps and Gatrorade on Jones. At some point though “enough is enough.”
Yet you continue to post “we don’t know.” But we more-than-likely we do. You can’t try to twist this into a court of law. But imo you’re just in denial just like snorkles by the very comment “we don’t know” highlights this.
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And your point is what, exactly? That you don't think they are going to be good? Congratulations. Like I said, we will find out.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
To be honest G-stock I have no idea what you are talking about, but let me try one last time. Is it a reasonable expectation that Jones doesn't play well or the OL improvement is a mirage or that the young receivers need more time to develop and its another disappointing season BUT it is also a reasonable expectation that Jones does play closer to his 2022 form, the OL is finally at least competent, that the young receivers finally provide the Giants with a big-play component, and that the young DL starts to consistently disrupt other teams passing attacks such that the Giants again at least compete for a playoff spot. I don't know which is going to happen. You sure as hell don't know which is going to happen. What sane people are willing to do is wait and see how the season plays out rather than shooting our mouths off that all is lost before they've played a down.
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And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
To be honest G-stock I have no idea what you are talking about, but let me try one last time. Is it a reasonable expectation that Jones doesn't play well or the OL improvement is a mirage or that the young receivers need more time to develop and its another disappointing season BUT it is also a reasonable expectation that Jones does play closer to his 2022 form, the OL is finally at least competent, that the young receivers finally provide the Giants with a big-play component, and that the young DL starts to consistently disrupt other teams passing attacks such that the Giants again at least compete for a playoff spot. I don't know which is going to happen. You sure as hell don't know which is going to happen. What sane people are willing to do is wait and see how the season plays out rather than shooting our mouths off that all is lost before they've played a down.
But here is what I am trying to say with you and uber- please don't take my 8 win post in the manner you did - but if they get 8 wins - and yet as what uber states which many us believe as well- - - when uber said
"But in terms of building a contender, we're still missing that most critical piece, which I think is an obvious statement."
If anyone believes this which I do - then where is the 8 win season taking us? And long term what's the plan to work toward being a contender?
The only thing I can see is that they remain mediocre and draft trenches until we're more that mediocre. And I saw this dart they didn't take any trenches. True they got Burns in a trade and they got some OL in FA but if we're not building to be a contender, why waste money to be mediocre?
Just so you can say "we want to compete be mediocre?"
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In comment 16531537 giantstock said:
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And your point is what, exactly? That you don't think they are going to be good? Congratulations. Like I said, we will find out.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
I have not moved the goal post at all. I have maintained that there are legitimate arguments to be made for this team having a successful year or a bad one. And yet the pessimistic crowd continues to take objection to this like it's some crazy take. I've not taken away from the negative arguments other than offering that there are also counter arguments. I've literally acknowledged there is truth to them, yet for some reason many, including you, are having a hard time with anyone who doesn't agree that it's a certainty that the team is going to suck. In a neutral stance, I merely reflected that despite all the back and forth in the end we'll get to find out which side was right, and that was somehow objectionable to you.
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And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
To be honest G-stock I have no idea what you are talking about, but let me try one last time. Is it a reasonable expectation that Jones doesn't play well or the OL improvement is a mirage or that the young receivers need more time to develop and its another disappointing season BUT it is also a reasonable expectation that Jones does play closer to his 2022 form, the OL is finally at least competent, that the young receivers finally provide the Giants with a big-play component, and that the young DL starts to consistently disrupt other teams passing attacks such that the Giants again at least compete for a playoff spot. I don't know which is going to happen. You sure as hell don't know which is going to happen. What sane people are willing to do is wait and see how the season plays out rather than shooting our mouths off that all is lost before they've played a down.
That said, it is also reasonable that they will finish with a winning record.
It is possible that Jones will exceed his 2022 performance. We know that the coach has had success in his 3rd year with a toolsy and marginally effective QB.
At the end of the day, all arguments are on the table. But, "we shall see" is the only thing that resonates.
That's an interesting statement and I guess it has some validity especially if nothing has changed. My thinking though has always been that in the end "the only season that matters is the one in front of you." And personally at this point I couldn't care less what happened 5 or 10 years ago. Those were different teams with largely different players. What I'm doing is looking at the team in front of us and thinking that it will in fact be very disappointing if this team doesn't win 9-10 games and compete for a playoff spot, at least barring one or two major units being wiped out by injuries. And I say that because it looks like the OL should finally be at least competent, that with the young receivers the Giants have the real potential for an explosive big-play offence, and that with the young DL group we have the potential for a very disruptive defence. Of course, the elephant in the room remains the QB situation, but actual football people who know far more about NFL QBs than anyone in this room who who have worked with the guy every day for several years now seem to think that Jones has the physical tools, mental make-up and work ethic to be successful in the league if given some tools to work with. Time will tell.
1) most participants are here to debate and learn about football
2) there's always been a burden of proof in debates
That we can be bust each other's chops along the way, but then move on to the next topic in good faith, has always been a feature not a defect on this site.
What I do find very bizarre (this is not directed to Brown Hornet), is an upswing in contributions around the idea of "well we don't know, so why are we talking about it?"
No shit, of course we don't know. We're all simply making guesses and debating with the facts we have.
1) most participants are here to debate and learn about football
2) there's always been a burden of proof in debates
That we can be bust each other's chops along the way, but then move on to the next topic in good faith, has always been a feature not a defect on this site.
What I do find very bizarre (this is not directed to Brown Hornet), is an upswing in contributions around the idea of "well we don't know, so why are we talking about it?"
No shit, of course we don't know. We're all simply making guesses and debating with the facts we have.
Many of the "facts" that we debate with are circumstantial and therefore, debatable in and of themselves.
Some come here for information only. They should be prepared for hot takes from all directions because while we don't know...we should be talking about it.
We actually know this team will not be good. The quarterback and running back rooms are the very worst in the entire NFL. The OL is fixed? Runyan is simply the next Glowinski. Evan Neal is terrible. JMS needs to step up big time or enter into the "is he a bust?" debate next year. The defense has clearly been upgraded and may be good this year, but like 2017, they won't be good in the second half of games when they are gassed from being on the field seventy percent of the time.
The only question is, will the Giants win more than five games and destroy any chance again of getting an elite quarterback prospect in the 2025 draft? My guess is no and they will indeed have a top three pick next year, but I am apparently not entitled to this opinion since it is only time that can tell such things...
We actually know this team will not be good. The quarterback and running back rooms are the very worst in the entire NFL. The OL is fixed? Runyan is simply the next Glowinski. Evan Neal is terrible. JMS needs to step up big time or enter into the "is he a bust?" debate next year. The defense has clearly been upgraded and may be good this year, but like 2017, they won't be good in the second half of games when they are gassed from being on the field seventy percent of the time.
The only question is, will the Giants win more than five games and destroy any chance again of getting an elite quarterback prospect in the 2025 draft? My guess is no and they will indeed have a top three pick next year, but I am apparently not entitled to this opinion since it is only time that can tell such things...
What does it mean to 'know' something?
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In comment 16531604 UberAlias said:
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In comment 16531537 giantstock said:
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And your point is what, exactly? That you don't think they are going to be good? Congratulations. Like I said, we will find out.
And yet on ather thread you'll say "we don't know" yet again. Way to go and keep moving the goalposts as you continually do. You're a fan not a lawyer. Take a stand on something.
I have not moved the goal post at all. I have maintained that there are legitimate arguments to be made for this team having a successful year or a bad one. And yet the pessimistic crowd continues to take objection to this like it's some crazy take. I've not taken away from the negative arguments other than offering that there are also counter arguments. I've literally acknowledged there is truth to them, yet for some reason many, including you, are having a hard time with anyone who doesn't agree that it's a certainty that the team is going to suck. In a neutral stance, I merely reflected that despite all the back and forth in the end we'll get to find out which side was right, and that was somehow objectionable to you.
OFC you have. Your past post that we don't know the answers is in reply to posters opinions beliefs that Giants won't be good. Even your reply to me is featuring us "naysayers." Yet on another thread as I pointed out you imply Jones is a big issue and you identify the alternatives while continuing to go after those of us that believe that the Giants will not be good. How is it that we’re wrong if you also acknowledge that Jones is a long term issue?
why don't you just say "we don't know the answers" - which you hide behind instead of taking a stand - and follow that up with "we can go 17-0 or 0-17 this team depending on how each player plays?" That's basically what you're saying and trying desperately to go after the naysayers.
If you are who I think you are- you and I have been in agreement for a long time about the trenches. But if this is you- somehow you've been twisted into minimizing QB play which is why you might be more reluctant to criticize the non QB pick.
If you do believe Jones is an issue (and you are not minimizing QB play) then why are you hiding behind the comment "we don’t; know?" These are opinions form those of us that believe we are right that the QB play long terms from Jones will impact this franchise in a negative way. You are just playing both sides of the fence while moving the goalposts whenever it suits you.
But we won't do any better than 2022. 2022 was Daniel Jones at his best...and that "best" wasn't good enough to beat the upper echelon teams. And if in 2024, you think a game manager is going to get to the Super Bowl, you may want to adjust your meds. The rule changes have made having a top echelon QB a requirement to contend.
Daniel Jones is a poor man's Alex Smith. That's what he is. Kansas City was never going to win a championship with Smith, even with one of the best QB guru's around (Andy Reid), and their organization knew it. That's why he was replaced.
Was Smith a good player? Sure, he was good, he won a lot of games. But he wasn't going to beat teams with upper echelon QB's. Kurt Cousins, who has to be considered a better QB than DJ, hasn't been able to beat the upper echelon teams as well. It's no shame, it's just reality.
The real rebuild will start in 2025, when the Giants make a decision on the QB position. The key is to build the team up so that we can have a similar path that KC had when they replaced Smith with Mahomes.