I agree. We have some talent. Comes down to OL mainly IMO. Ours was horrendous last year. Hopefully some vets and a new OL coach help. QB, whoever it is, will look a lot better if he has some time.
But they have better OL talent now than they’ve had in more than a decade. So, sure they have to prove it but at least they have a chance. Couldn’t say that before.
I think that's right. I've said all along, I think there is a wide range of outcomes for this team. God forbid Dexter goes down for an extended period, for example. But I do feel that last year we suffered more than our share of impactful injuries, so there's that. Plus, the way I look at it --nobody can anticipate all the question marks. Why not embrace the positive potential over walking around with our tail between our legs all the time? I do feel better about our current coach and GM than prior. These may not be the guys, I'm not guaranteeing they are. But the prior administration was much more clearly NOT the guys at a similar point, IMO. So I've elected to stay positive, by choice.
Is it negativity to carry an umbrella when the weatherman says it's going to rain? It is what it is.
It's been more or less your life's work to tell everyone how much the team sucks, at every opportunity. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what purpose you serve when the team is good. You're a broken car with one gear.
Is it negativity to carry an umbrella when the weatherman says it's going to rain? It is what it is.
It's been more or less your life's work to tell everyone how much the team sucks, at every opportunity. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what purpose you serve when the team is good. You're a broken car with one gear.
I think that's right. I've said all along, I think there is a wide range of outcomes for this team. God forbid Dexter goes down for an extended period, for example. But I do feel that last year we suffered more than our share of impactful injuries, so there's that. Plus, the way I look at it --nobody can anticipate all the question marks. Why not embrace the positive potential over walking around with our tail between our legs all the time? I do feel better about our current coach and GM than prior. These may not be the guys, I'm not guaranteeing they are. But the prior administration was much more clearly NOT the guys at a similar point, IMO. So I've elected to stay positive, by choice.
That’s fine as is your choice. While others may want to see at least a few tangible indicators that the team could be heading in a positive direction before simply embracing it.
And projecting less than positive doesn’t mean fans are typically walking around with their tails between their legs. I think that may be more reserved for those expecting and/or touting the presumptive positive and then watching the losses pile up again as matter of fact.
I know they aren't a contender, but I think that is way low.
is more talented than people think. Except at the QB position. And that is what will hold them back.
Other than ER/OLB I’m not sure what position group we are clearly above average?
DT? - 1 great player then….
ILB - 1 very good player then…
WR?
Being clearly better at all position groups isn't a prereq for a good team (though it helps). Having good players (on the field, not in the training room), well coached, with a few impact players in key roles-- all playing fundamentally sound ball -- is what makes a good team.
This time last season the Giants were a playoff team with precisely that. Then the debacle of last season happened; player evaluation either uses that baseline, or treats it more a can-go/will-go wrong mulligan with (frustratingly) little to learn (player-wise) because the overall circumstances preclude fairly rating most players.
It's not baseball -- players don't stand at the plate by themselves. Even then, their NY brethren the Yankees show how one impact player, a few piece parts with the right intangibles, and a dose of anger at last season can change everything.
A year from now the same players in the same position groups may indeed be clearly better than most others. That's not even a stretch, but also impossible to rationally aver.
Tells you all you need to know of their rankings. They are 16-35 over the last 3 seasons and had a 7-10 record last year (1 more win than the giants), but they are 15th?
is more talented than people think. Except at the QB position. And that is what will hold them back.
Other than ER/OLB I’m not sure what position group we are clearly above average?
DT? - 1 great player then….
ILB - 1 very good player then…
WR?
Being clearly better at all position groups isn't a prereq for a good team (though it helps). Having good players (on the field, not in the training room), well coached, with a few impact players in key roles-- all playing fundamentally sound ball -- is what makes a good team.
This time last season the Giants were a playoff team with precisely that. Then the debacle of last season happened; player evaluation either uses that baseline, or treats it more a can-go/will-go wrong mulligan with (frustratingly) little to learn (player-wise) because the overall circumstances preclude fairly rating most players.
It's not baseball -- players don't stand at the plate by themselves. Even then, their NY brethren the Yankees show how one impact player, a few piece parts with the right intangibles, and a dose of anger at last season can change everything.
A year from now the same players in the same position groups may indeed be clearly better than most others. That's not even a stretch, but also impossible to rationally aver.
All very true. And the hope of a new season is upon us.
That's surprising. Based on everything the media has been saying about the Giants these past five months, most of us would've predicted that The Athletic placed us in their top ten, right?
Other than ER/OLB I’m not sure what position group we are clearly above average?
DT? - 1 great player then….
ILB - 1 very good player then…
WR?
Let's say, for the sake of argument, you're right about ER being a position group that's above average. Now add in the potential for our WR group to be above average if Malik Nabers is the real deal, Wan'Dale Robinson has a healthy year, and Hyatt develops as hoped. Well, pass-rushing and pass-cathing are two of the most important position groups in the NFL given it's a passing league. If the pass-rusher and pass-catchers are complemented by an average OL position group and an average back seven, that's the makings of a pretty good team if our QB plays well. And contrary to the haters and the lovers, Daniel Jones remains a mystery man. As demonstrated by his 2022 season, he is at worst, a competent game manager, but the potential is there for him to be more than that given an average OL and an above average WR group (compared to the pathetic OL and WR groups that he carried on his back in 2022).
p.s.--People discount his road playoff victory over the Vikings in 2022 because they poo-poo the Vikings pass-defense, but if you factor in our dogshit OL and WRs, you could argue that that's what you get from Daniel Jones in a fair fight. With an OL that can keep him from constantly running for his life and receivers that even top defenses need to actually gameplan against, it will be interesting to see how Jones performs...if he can stay healthy.
Daniel Jones remains a mystery man. As demonstrated by his 2022 season, he is at worst, a competent game manager
2022 didn't tell us anything about DJ's worst. It told us everything about DJ's best.
DJ's worst was on full display in 2020, 2021, 2023.
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Considering that he couldn't've had a weaker supporting cast, I think it's fair to say it's his floor. Can you point out a team that was weaker at OL and WR than the Giants were in 2022?
Expecting a winning record is setting yourself up for disappointment. Having the worst QB room in the league doesn’t help either. I think we’re headed to a 4-6 win finish, per usual.
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Considering that he couldn't've had a weaker supporting cast, I think it's fair to say it's his floor. Can you point out a team that was weaker at OL and WR than the Giants were in 2022?
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Please point out an example of my "DJ-worship" (defending someone is different from worshiping them).
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Please point out an example of my "DJ-worship" (defending someone is different from worshiping them).
You literally just bucketed DJ and Eli together as the same level of "just below elite" QBs the other day.
You have zero credibility when it comes to DJ. None.
"What if he's just a really good QB like Daniel Jones or Eli Manning (who will win you a couple of Super Bowls and occasionally make the Pro Bowl) and not another Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (who will be first ballot Hall of Famers)?"
If it were good I'd say it's good. Your fantasy world is boring, and it's been boring for a decade.
It is what it is. You want to pretend it's something else, go ahead. But not everyone is going to sign up for your bedtime story.
Fantasy world? LOL. I've very clearly stated that there is a broad range of outcomes for this team. Maybe they will be bad, and maybe they won't, I've said as much. I can see both sides of the coin and acknowledge the reasons for each. You don't possess that capacity. Not only will GoTerp anticipate the negative, which would be perfectly fair, but he will be relentlessly certain of it. And repeat it, over and over.
You literally just bucketed DJ and Eli together as the same level of "just below elite" QBs the other day.
a) I didn't/don't worship Eli; b) the comment you are referring to was a sarcastic reply to Go Terps (re: two talking heads naming Jones as the worst case scenario for Trevor Lawrence).
I think that's right. I've said all along, I think there is a wide range of outcomes for this team. God forbid Dexter goes down for an extended period, for example. But I do feel that last year we suffered more than our share of impactful injuries, so there's that. Plus, the way I look at it --nobody can anticipate all the question marks. Why not embrace the positive potential over walking around with our tail between our legs all the time? I do feel better about our current coach and GM than prior. These may not be the guys, I'm not guaranteeing they are. But the prior administration was much more clearly NOT the guys at a similar point, IMO. So I've elected to stay positive, by choice.
That’s fine as is your choice. While others may want to see at least a few tangible indicators that the team could be heading in a positive direction before simply embracing it.
And projecting less than positive doesn’t mean fans are typically walking around with their tails between their legs. I think that may be more reserved for those expecting and/or touting the presumptive positive and then watching the losses pile up again as matter of fact.
That is fair Thomas. I was not saying others have tail between legs, so much as I was indicating that I choose not to. It's a personal choice in disposition given the absence of of certainty one way or another, if that makes sense.
You literally just bucketed DJ and Eli together as the same level of "just below elite" QBs the other day.
a) I didn't/don't worship Eli; b) the comment you are referring to was a sarcastic reply to Go Terps (re: two talking heads naming Jones as the worst case scenario for Trevor Lawrence).
Maybe it's time for some self-reflection on your part then, because your supposedly sarcastic DJ posts and your genuinely sincere DJ posts are impossible to separate from one another.
And I don't think you were being sarcastic anyway.
If it were good I'd say it's good. Your fantasy world is boring, and it's been boring for a decade.
It is what it is. You want to pretend it's something else, go ahead. But not everyone is going to sign up for your bedtime story.
Fantasy world? LOL. I've very clearly stated that there is a broad range of outcomes for this team. Maybe they will be bad, and maybe they won't, I've said as much. I can see both sides of the coin and acknowledge the reasons for each. You don't possess that capacity. Not only will GoTerp anticipate the negative, which would be perfectly fair, but he will be relentlessly certain of it. And repeat it, over and over.
The "broad range of outcomes" isn't particularly broad.
The ceiling is 2022 - everything goes right, squeak into the playoffs and get destroyed by the first good team they play. The floor is the worst team in the league. That "broad range of outcomes" is actually just a function of parity. Optimistic fans of the Panthers and Patriots can make the same arguments this offseason, too.
I'm actually optimistic too. I've got the Giants at 7-10, and not 3-14.
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Considering that he couldn't've had a weaker supporting cast, I think it's fair to say it's his floor. Can you point out a team that was weaker at OL and WR than the Giants were in 2022?
You're spot on. Just like flat earthers, people can ignore '22 all they want and toss in conspiracy theories about how Daboll/Schoen were forced to give Jones a deal rather than accepting facts borne by actual stats and film: his '22 performance in literally EVERYTHING under his control - accuracy on target, turnovers, yards per run, total running yards, was excellent, and his overall passing numbers were average (as a #14 QBR would suggest).
If '22 says he's "just a game manager" it was exactly the kind of game manager you can win a SB with. Led the league in accuracy and lowest TO rate. And was amongst the leaders and all rushing categories. He can't block rushers or throw to himself.
I also don't understand why anyone would expect a QB by any name in '22 to do anything better than Jones with Slayton, Richie James and Hodgins as his receivers (and even then, look what a revelation Hodgins -- a waiver -- was).
Maybe it's time for some self-reflection on your part then, because your supposedly sarcastic DJ posts and your genuinely sincere DJ posts are impossible to separate from one another.
And I don't think you were being sarcastic anyway.
If you look at the comment and what I was responding to, I'd have to be clueless to have been anything but sarcastic because I wasn't offering my own opinion of Jones, I was interpreting what the two talking heads meant by Jones being the worst case scenario for Trevor Lawrence.
p.s.--I realize I'm opening myself up to all kinds of ridicule with "I'd have to be clueless"
We are not a contender. It's very hard to have a contender with a QB as bad as Daniel. It's virtually impossible to build a contender while paying a QB as bad as Daniel $46 M.
Could we come out on the good side of some close games and win 9 games? Sure, that's in the range of outcomes. Unfortunately if that happens, it means we are saddled with Daniel for 1, probably 2, more years. And if you play it forward, it essentially foreclosures on the Giants being a contender until about 2029 at the earliest.
Sad, boring, bleak times for Giants fans. But at least we are securing the financial future of a nice young man who is easy to root for.
Last year they picked 5th not 3rd.
Quote:
That’s where we belong.
Last year they picked 5th not 3rd.
I meant 6th
I agree. We have some talent. Comes down to OL mainly IMO. Ours was horrendous last year. Hopefully some vets and a new OL coach help. QB, whoever it is, will look a lot better if he has some time.
For me, I think we can have a solid defense. Offense is where I'm concerned...the OL & the most important position in sports.
do you do music, lyrics or both?
Is it negativity to carry an umbrella when the weatherman says it's going to rain? It is what it is.
Missed opportunity last season?
Is it negativity to carry an umbrella when the weatherman says it's going to rain? It is what it is.
Quote:
It's not negativity to say that.
Is it negativity to carry an umbrella when the weatherman says it's going to rain? It is what it is.
It's been more or less your life's work to tell everyone how much the team sucks, at every opportunity. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what purpose you serve when the team is good. You're a broken car with one gear.
As opposed to "I'm gonna be positive!"
Fresh take.
It is what it is. You want to pretend it's something else, go ahead. But not everyone is going to sign up for your bedtime story.
That’s fine as is your choice. While others may want to see at least a few tangible indicators that the team could be heading in a positive direction before simply embracing it.
And projecting less than positive doesn’t mean fans are typically walking around with their tails between their legs. I think that may be more reserved for those expecting and/or touting the presumptive positive and then watching the losses pile up again as matter of fact.
Leaving out by far the biggest factor in this teams success.
Other than ER/OLB I’m not sure what position group we are clearly above average?
DT? - 1 great player then….
ILB - 1 very good player then…
WR?
Jones is obviously not great.....Mahomes is great. Jones has limitations.....
I believe most NFL QBs are decent enough to perform when the team around them is good.
Cousins, Purdy, even Hurts......are viewed by many to be better than Jones.....but limitations show up.
Jones must step up his game.....with the improvements around him. Overcomes his limitations.....and play better and Win.
If you think he is not capable of that....I won't argue.
I hope he does
Quote:
is more talented than people think. Except at the QB position. And that is what will hold them back.
Other than ER/OLB I’m not sure what position group we are clearly above average?
DT? - 1 great player then….
ILB - 1 very good player then…
WR?
Being clearly better at all position groups isn't a prereq for a good team (though it helps). Having good players (on the field, not in the training room), well coached, with a few impact players in key roles-- all playing fundamentally sound ball -- is what makes a good team.
This time last season the Giants were a playoff team with precisely that. Then the debacle of last season happened; player evaluation either uses that baseline, or treats it more a can-go/will-go wrong mulligan with (frustratingly) little to learn (player-wise) because the overall circumstances preclude fairly rating most players.
It's not baseball -- players don't stand at the plate by themselves. Even then, their NY brethren the Yankees show how one impact player, a few piece parts with the right intangibles, and a dose of anger at last season can change everything.
A year from now the same players in the same position groups may indeed be clearly better than most others. That's not even a stretch, but also impossible to rationally aver.
To each their own
Quote:
In comment 16530123 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
is more talented than people think. Except at the QB position. And that is what will hold them back.
Other than ER/OLB I’m not sure what position group we are clearly above average?
DT? - 1 great player then….
ILB - 1 very good player then…
WR?
Being clearly better at all position groups isn't a prereq for a good team (though it helps). Having good players (on the field, not in the training room), well coached, with a few impact players in key roles-- all playing fundamentally sound ball -- is what makes a good team.
This time last season the Giants were a playoff team with precisely that. Then the debacle of last season happened; player evaluation either uses that baseline, or treats it more a can-go/will-go wrong mulligan with (frustratingly) little to learn (player-wise) because the overall circumstances preclude fairly rating most players.
It's not baseball -- players don't stand at the plate by themselves. Even then, their NY brethren the Yankees show how one impact player, a few piece parts with the right intangibles, and a dose of anger at last season can change everything.
A year from now the same players in the same position groups may indeed be clearly better than most others. That's not even a stretch, but also impossible to rationally aver.
All very true. And the hope of a new season is upon us.
Other than ER/OLB I’m not sure what position group we are clearly above average?
DT? - 1 great player then….
ILB - 1 very good player then…
WR?
p.s.--People discount his road playoff victory over the Vikings in 2022 because they poo-poo the Vikings pass-defense, but if you factor in our dogshit OL and WRs, you could argue that that's what you get from Daniel Jones in a fair fight. With an OL that can keep him from constantly running for his life and receivers that even top defenses need to actually gameplan against, it will be interesting to see how Jones performs...if he can stay healthy.
If you think he is not capable of that....I won't argue.
I hope he does
I hope I win Powerball, but I know what the odds look like.
Hoping something happens is great. But it's not a forecast, it's just hope.
2022 didn't tell us anything about DJ's worst. It told us everything about DJ's best.
DJ's worst was on full display in 2020, 2021, 2023.
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Jones is obviously not great.....Mahomes is great. Jones has limitations.....
I believe most NFL QBs are decent enough to perform when the team around them is good.
Cousins, Purdy, even Hurts......are viewed by many to be better than Jones.....but limitations show up.
Jones must step up his game.....with the improvements around him. Overcomes his limitations.....and play better and Win.
If you think he is not capable of that....I won't argue.
I hope he does
I think when your QB is entering his 6th season and making 40 million a year, your expectation should be higher.
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Quote:
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Considering that he couldn't've had a weaker supporting cast, I think it's fair to say it's his floor. Can you point out a team that was weaker at OL and WR than the Giants were in 2022?
Daniel Jones IS the weak supporting cast.
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Quote:
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Please point out an example of my "DJ-worship" (defending someone is different from worshiping them).
You literally just bucketed DJ and Eli together as the same level of "just below elite" QBs the other day.
You have zero credibility when it comes to DJ. None.
Link - ( New Window )
It is what it is. You want to pretend it's something else, go ahead. But not everyone is going to sign up for your bedtime story.
Fantasy world? LOL. I've very clearly stated that there is a broad range of outcomes for this team. Maybe they will be bad, and maybe they won't, I've said as much. I can see both sides of the coin and acknowledge the reasons for each. You don't possess that capacity. Not only will GoTerp anticipate the negative, which would be perfectly fair, but he will be relentlessly certain of it. And repeat it, over and over.
You literally just bucketed DJ and Eli together as the same level of "just below elite" QBs the other day.
Quote:
I think that's right. I've said all along, I think there is a wide range of outcomes for this team. God forbid Dexter goes down for an extended period, for example. But I do feel that last year we suffered more than our share of impactful injuries, so there's that. Plus, the way I look at it --nobody can anticipate all the question marks. Why not embrace the positive potential over walking around with our tail between our legs all the time? I do feel better about our current coach and GM than prior. These may not be the guys, I'm not guaranteeing they are. But the prior administration was much more clearly NOT the guys at a similar point, IMO. So I've elected to stay positive, by choice.
That’s fine as is your choice. While others may want to see at least a few tangible indicators that the team could be heading in a positive direction before simply embracing it.
And projecting less than positive doesn’t mean fans are typically walking around with their tails between their legs. I think that may be more reserved for those expecting and/or touting the presumptive positive and then watching the losses pile up again as matter of fact.
That is fair Thomas. I was not saying others have tail between legs, so much as I was indicating that I choose not to. It's a personal choice in disposition given the absence of of certainty one way or another, if that makes sense.
Quote:
You literally just bucketed DJ and Eli together as the same level of "just below elite" QBs the other day.
a) I didn't/don't worship Eli; b) the comment you are referring to was a sarcastic reply to Go Terps (re: two talking heads naming Jones as the worst case scenario for Trevor Lawrence).
Maybe it's time for some self-reflection on your part then, because your supposedly sarcastic DJ posts and your genuinely sincere DJ posts are impossible to separate from one another.
And I don't think you were being sarcastic anyway.
Quote:
If it were good I'd say it's good. Your fantasy world is boring, and it's been boring for a decade.
It is what it is. You want to pretend it's something else, go ahead. But not everyone is going to sign up for your bedtime story.
Fantasy world? LOL. I've very clearly stated that there is a broad range of outcomes for this team. Maybe they will be bad, and maybe they won't, I've said as much. I can see both sides of the coin and acknowledge the reasons for each. You don't possess that capacity. Not only will GoTerp anticipate the negative, which would be perfectly fair, but he will be relentlessly certain of it. And repeat it, over and over.
The "broad range of outcomes" isn't particularly broad.
The ceiling is 2022 - everything goes right, squeak into the playoffs and get destroyed by the first good team they play. The floor is the worst team in the league. That "broad range of outcomes" is actually just a function of parity. Optimistic fans of the Panthers and Patriots can make the same arguments this offseason, too.
I'm actually optimistic too. I've got the Giants at 7-10, and not 3-14.
Quote:
Taking someone's best season by far and declaring it their floor is not particularly logical, but it's very much on brand for your embarrassing DJ-worship.
Considering that he couldn't've had a weaker supporting cast, I think it's fair to say it's his floor. Can you point out a team that was weaker at OL and WR than the Giants were in 2022?
You're spot on. Just like flat earthers, people can ignore '22 all they want and toss in conspiracy theories about how Daboll/Schoen were forced to give Jones a deal rather than accepting facts borne by actual stats and film: his '22 performance in literally EVERYTHING under his control - accuracy on target, turnovers, yards per run, total running yards, was excellent, and his overall passing numbers were average (as a #14 QBR would suggest).
If '22 says he's "just a game manager" it was exactly the kind of game manager you can win a SB with. Led the league in accuracy and lowest TO rate. And was amongst the leaders and all rushing categories. He can't block rushers or throw to himself.
I also don't understand why anyone would expect a QB by any name in '22 to do anything better than Jones with Slayton, Richie James and Hodgins as his receivers (and even then, look what a revelation Hodgins -- a waiver -- was).
Incomprehensible.
Maybe it's time for some self-reflection on your part then, because your supposedly sarcastic DJ posts and your genuinely sincere DJ posts are impossible to separate from one another.
And I don't think you were being sarcastic anyway.
p.s.--I realize I'm opening myself up to all kinds of ridicule with "I'd have to be clueless"
Could we come out on the good side of some close games and win 9 games? Sure, that's in the range of outcomes. Unfortunately if that happens, it means we are saddled with Daniel for 1, probably 2, more years. And if you play it forward, it essentially foreclosures on the Giants being a contender until about 2029 at the earliest.
Sad, boring, bleak times for Giants fans. But at least we are securing the financial future of a nice young man who is easy to root for.