Watched it again yesterday in honor of D-Day, but two things occurred to me:
1) In the opening scene, an elderly James Ryan is seen walking to a specific grave. Is this intended to create ambiguity about the character's identity? Initially, without context, we don't know who the character is. Is it meant to suggest that the character could be either Private Ryan or Captain Miller, only revealing that it's Ryan when we see the aged Matt Damon standing over Tom Hanks' character's grave? Going into the film, was the audience aware that Matt Damon's character would survive the war (it is called "SAVING Private Ryan" after all)?
2) More of a confirmation: Steamboat Willie (the Nazi soldier they let go) and the soldier who killed Mellish are two different people, right? I always thought they were the same person. If they are different, they both fought in the same battle, and Upham eventually works up the courage to kill Willie. Do we ever find out what happens to Mellish's killer? Is he part of the group that Upham orders to leave after he kills Willie?
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In comment 16532454 section125 said:
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a dozen times and always thought the guy they let go(Steamboat Willie), the guy that kills Mellish and the guy Upham eventually kills were the same, until recently.
At that time, Upham shoots Willie because Willie tries to sweet talk Upham into letting he and his guys go, again. Upham was basically a pushover twice but had had enough.
Wait, it's three different people? But then how does the guy Upham kills know his name? He calls him "Upham". I figured he killed Steamboat Willie.
No, two guys. The guy that they let go from the machine gun nest earlier is the same guy Upham shoots. The guy that knifed Mellish is different.
Yeah, I found that out yesterday when I watched it. There was a slight difference in facial features that I never noticed before.
Didn't realize it was Willie that shot Capt Miller...
Good write up.
Steamboat Willie - ( New Window )
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you can ignore my initial response. Not sure if it was misdirection but I can see why one might think that since they don’t show who’s grave it is I don’t believe.
Typing on my phone on the go, so I apologize if it wasn't clear.
But yes, once the movie begins, we see an unknown elderly man walking to a grave. As the movie goes on, are you meant to believe that it's POSSIBLE that this elderly gentleman could be Miller (or even potentially someone else)?
I'm pretty sure that the old man at the beginning is Private Ryan. Capt'n Miller died at the end. The only remaining core that lived were Upum and Ryben (sp?).
Didn't realize it was Willie that shot Capt Miller...
Good write up. Steamboat Willie - ( New Window )
Man, what a trick of the mind. When I look at the picture of the SS guy, it's exactly how I remember him and distinctly different from how I remember Willie. But for whatever reason I thought of them as the same guy when recalling the narrative. I think the main reason is when he ignores Upham on the way out, it felt like a "thanks for letting me go earlier, pussy."
Didn't realize it was Willie that shot Capt Miller...
Good write up. Steamboat Willie - ( New Window )
It's clear in the movie that Willie shoots Capt Miller, and Upham sees it. If Upham didn't witness Willie shooting Miller, then I doubt Upham shoots Willie.
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Willie..
Didn't realize it was Willie that shot Capt Miller...
Good write up. Steamboat Willie - ( New Window )
It's clear in the movie that Willie shoots Capt Miller, and Upham sees it. If Upham didn't witness Willie shooting Miller, then I doubt Upham shoots Willie.
I disagree here. Only b/c willie says "Upham" with a smile on his face right before Upham shoots him. Dude never thought he'd see combat nor did he consider ever having to kill anyone in the war. Then he got to his breaking point. Kind of like initially when he says he didn't smoke, then he's all of a sudden chain smoking before the final battle.
Agreed, that’s how I initially responded but that’s my take too after re reading
The slow zoom into the old guy's face at the beginning was great, you knew he was remembering some serious shit, which then: bang you're on the landing craft with Tom Hanks and the rest of his men. Easy to think that was Hanks as an old guy, but you also figured they were going to Save Private Ryan
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Willie..
Didn't realize it was Willie that shot Capt Miller...
Good write up. Steamboat Willie - ( New Window )
It's clear in the movie that Willie shoots Capt Miller, and Upham sees it. If Upham didn't witness Willie shooting Miller, then I doubt Upham shoots Willie.
Bob, I didn't focus on who shot Miller. I don't usually critique movies while I am watching them. With the battle going on around them and the Germans close to overrunning the US position, I was watching the overall battle - yes I missed that part. Then again I thought it was Willie that stabbed Mellish and that was why Upham shot him...hey, I effed up! Fun to find I was mistaken...
Didn't realize it was Willie that shot Capt Miller...
Good write up. Steamboat Willie - ( New Window )
If that's accurate, it's a major plot hole. There were no Waffen-SS divisions stationed in Normandy. The counter attack at the end of the film I believe is supposed to be an element of the 2nd SS "Das Reich" Division. In other words, the same soldier would not be in the same location. It would be like having a U.S. Army soldier embedded in a U.S. Marine division.
It's ambiguous... maybe deliberately so. He doesn't have SS runes on his collar but he's wearing SS-style camouflage. My guess is the director wanted to add the twist. But it's not realist. Weird thing is I never thought it was the same guy but it does look like him.
Indeed he was, which is another reason why we know it's not "Steamboat Willie"
Upham shoots Steamboat Willie, twice.... - ( New Window )
I never thought it was the same guy because it wouldn't have made sense to have been the same guy (different branches of the military). Somehow I missed that. Interesting plot twist but it makes no sense.
They didn't change his uniform. He still has what looks like an M44 tunic, same as the earlier scenes, only with an M42 SS camo smock over it.
My 4 years of high school German didn't get that far as to learning Austrian dialect. Hoch Deutsch and Plat Deutsch yes...
Also, Steamboat Willie has a fairly noticeable cut over his right eye and a few other smaller cuts on his face when they let him go, which are also visible when Upham shoots him. The SS guy doesn't have any cuts on his face.
They didn't change his uniform. He still has what looks like an M44 tunic, same as the earlier scenes, only with an M42 SS camo smock over it.
OK, now I've completely confused this... I thought Opum killed the guy who killed Mellish. So I got TWO things wrong! Ughh...
I was right there with you and we are not alone....
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In comment 16532468 section125 said:
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Willie..
Didn't realize it was Willie that shot Capt Miller...
Good write up. Steamboat Willie - ( New Window )
It's clear in the movie that Willie shoots Capt Miller, and Upham sees it. If Upham didn't witness Willie shooting Miller, then I doubt Upham shoots Willie.
I disagree here. Only b/c willie says "Upham" with a smile on his face right before Upham shoots him. Dude never thought he'd see combat nor did he consider ever having to kill anyone in the war. Then he got to his breaking point. Kind of like initially when he says he didn't smoke, then he's all of a sudden chain smoking before the final battle.
What was the breaking point if it wasn't witnessing Willie (who Capt Miller released) shoot Miller? If that wasn't the breaking point, then why did Upham particularly shoot Willie? Just because he sympathetically said "Upham"?
I have to agree, even wit hall the war violence that takes place in this movie that scene is impossible for me to get out of my head once I saw it and still haunts me today.
What fuckin coward would stand there shitting his pants while his buddy is fighting for his life? Infuriating and so damn hauntying!
My reaction when I saw the film was "Oh god, they're not going to try to tell us that the old man is an older Tom Hanks, are they?" Well, no, they weren't, so that was good. But yes, it was a bit of sleight of hand.
I’m right there with you. Why didn’t he kill him?
Upham was still an armed enemy soldier and the guy just turned his back to him and walked away. I never understood that.
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who walked by Opum didn't kill him because he didn't see Opum as a threat.
Upham was still an armed enemy soldier and the guy just turned his back to him and walked away. I never understood that.
The best way I can explain it is that it was almost a bigger insult not to kill him because he viewed him as less than a man.
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In comment 16532602 Eric from BBI said:
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who walked by Opum didn't kill him because he didn't see Opum as a threat.
Upham was still an armed enemy soldier and the guy just turned his back to him and walked away. I never understood that.
The best way I can explain it is that it was almost a bigger insult not to kill him because he viewed him as less than a man.
Also, the guy was totally exhausted from the knife fight, may have just passed him subconsciously, plus Upham could have shot him during the fight...
Keep this in mind that that unit was an elite fighting outfit that had seen the worst of the war on the Russian Front, where in such small-action encounters prisoners were not taken. In fact, on it's way to Normandy, "Das Reich" committed one of the more infamous massacres in the West at
Oradour-sur-Glane. They killed everyone in the town. This was commonplace in Russia, but not in the West.
Keep this in mind that that unit was an elite fighting outfit that had seen the worst of the war on the Russian Front, where in such small-action encounters prisoners were not taken. In fact, on it's way to Normandy, "Das Reich" committed one of the more infamous massacres in the West at
Oradour-sur-Glane. They killed everyone in the town. This was commonplace in Russia, but not in the West.
I was just throwing it out there, as you said elite SS weren't leaving armed enemy living to fight.
You guys are thinking too much into it. And besides the first 20 minutes of the movie, Saving Private Ryan is massively overrated.
You guys are thinking too much into it. And besides the first 20 minutes of the movie, Saving Private Ryan is massively overrated.
Ha - we don't need a dose of reality. Would make for a very short thread.
Like when that 500 lbs bomb from the P-51 blew the turret off the Tiger and it didn't instantly vaporize Capt Miller...
You guys are thinking too much into it. And besides the first 20 minutes of the movie, Saving Private Ryan is massively overrated.
You'd hate to hear my wife and I try to introduce reality to TV on a nightly basis. LOL
BTW, I do think there are innumerable documented examples of soldiers letting the opponent just walk away... in all wars... and for different reasons.
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Because it's a movie. Simple as that. I don't think you can logically try to rationalize why he was left to live in a real life situation because it isn't.
You guys are thinking too much into it. And besides the first 20 minutes of the movie, Saving Private Ryan is massively overrated.
Ha - we don't need a dose of reality. Would make for a very short thread.
Like when that 500 lbs bomb from the P-51 blew the turret off the Tiger and it didn't instantly vaporize Capt Miller...
You mean the Tiger without the frontal machine gunner?
Plus Upham pulled his hand away from trigger, as if to silently surrender.
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In comment 16532660 RC in MD said:
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Because it's a movie. Simple as that. I don't think you can logically try to rationalize why he was left to live in a real life situation because it isn't.
You guys are thinking too much into it. And besides the first 20 minutes of the movie, Saving Private Ryan is massively overrated.
Ha - we don't need a dose of reality. Would make for a very short thread.
Like when that 500 lbs bomb from the P-51 blew the turret off the Tiger and it didn't instantly vaporize Capt Miller...
You mean the Tiger without the frontal machine gunner?
See, technical BS!
You guys are thinking too much into it. And besides the first 20 minutes of the movie, Saving Private Ryan is massively overrated.
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Because it's a movie. Simple as that. I don't think you can logically try to rationalize why he was left to live in a real life situation because it isn't.
You guys are thinking too much into it. And besides the first 20 minutes of the movie, Saving Private Ryan is massively overrated.
You'd hate to hear my wife and I try to introduce reality to TV on a nightly basis. LOL
BTW, I do think there are innumerable documented examples of soldiers letting the opponent just walk away... in all wars... and for different reasons.
Oh for sure there have been many such instances in real life. And those, you can try to figure out why...because they're real life. But the only way we figure out why it happened in this movie is to ask the script writer...ha!