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nice o line article-Ed Valentine

Hilary : 6/8/2024 6:21 am
Have been wondering why they switched Runyon from preferred left side to right and Eleumonur from his more exprienced side (right) to left. Explantations
They want Runyon between Neal and JMS
They feel if Eleumonur has to move to tackle- Stinne,Ezeudu and Neal would fill in at left guard.
o line - ( New Window )
I'm generally an optimistic fan...  
Matt123 : 6/8/2024 7:08 am : link
But this seems like another disaster waiting to happen.

Put both guards on sides they're less experienced on, so that when your right tackle fails and you have to move your guard to tackle (on the other side), your weak backup guards will be on their preferred side. That's the plan?

Or maybe Daboll/Carmen are a step ahead of what Ed Valentine is thinking. After last year's musical chairs though, it's hard to assume that.

RE: I'm generally an optimistic fan...  
robbieballs2003 : 6/8/2024 7:22 am : link
In comment 16532955 Matt123 said:
Quote:
But this seems like another disaster waiting to happen.

Put both guards on sides they're less experienced on, so that when your right tackle fails and you have to move your guard to tackle (on the other side), your weak backup guards will be on their preferred side. That's the plan?

Or maybe Daboll/Carmen are a step ahead of what Ed Valentine is thinking. After last year's musical chairs though, it's hard to assume that.


Agreed. Our problem is that for the past decade plus, we seems to be more concerned with our worst case scenario instead of getting our starters ready. For years all you hear is flexibility along the OL. Next thing we know, our starters suck to begin with, then there are injuries, and we still suck with our versatility. I really hope this works but why flip sides with Neal? I don't get it. Going from G to T or T to G on the same side of the line us easier for most than going from T to T or G to G on different sides of the line.
Protecting already against a Year 3 Evan Neal disaster.  
ThomasG : 6/8/2024 7:23 am : link
And probably makes sense.
RE: I'm generally an optimistic fan...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/8/2024 7:54 am : link
In comment 16532955 Matt123 said:
Quote:
But this seems like another disaster waiting to happen.

Put both guards on sides they're less experienced on, so that when your right tackle fails and you have to move your guard to tackle (on the other side), your weak backup guards will be on their preferred side. That's the plan?

Or maybe Daboll/Carmen are a step ahead of what Ed Valentine is thinking. After last year's musical chairs though, it's hard to assume that.


Runyan has an equal amount of experience on both sides. Experience isn't the issue with him. Eluemunor has played every position except center.
Seems a reasonable approach  
BillT : 6/8/2024 7:59 am : link
Runyon played RG all last year. He’s not switching sides. And Bricillo was Eluemunor’s OL coach last year. He knows him and what he can do. With Neal a question, having the line organized to accommodate a switch is smart especially with Stinnie and Ezeudu being LGs. And if we’re going to be decimated by injury again, nothing will matter just like for every other team.
Waiting for the article on OL after first regular season game  
Rick in Dallas : 6/8/2024 8:00 am : link
None of these preseason articles interest me.
I want to know how they performed with the bullets flying for real.
What does the oft-injured Neal look like. Are the new FA signings good.
So much hinges on finally getting a OL that competes in both the running and passing game.
Tired of the slop we have been running out there year after year.


RE: I'm generally an optimistic fan...  
TrueBlue56 : 6/8/2024 8:05 am : link
In comment 16532955 Matt123 said:
Quote:
But this seems like another disaster waiting to happen.

Put both guards on sides they're less experienced on, so that when your right tackle fails and you have to move your guard to tackle (on the other side), your weak backup guards will be on their preferred side. That's the plan?

Or maybe Daboll/Carmen are a step ahead of what Ed Valentine is thinking. After last year's musical chairs though, it's hard to assume that.


Runyan played 925 snaps at right guard for the packers last year and he played 680 snaps at right guard in 2022 (320 snaps at left guard). I wouldn’t say he is less experienced there.

Quote:
JON RUNYAN: Yeah, my whole career, it didn't matter where I played. Early on in the career I played mainly the left, and towards the end, second half, moved over to the right. It feels natural for me now. Kind of when I moved over there about two years ago, I kind of felt like a fish out of water, but it's kind of my home now and I feel comfortable there.
Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
Spider56 : 6/8/2024 8:21 am : link
It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.
RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/8/2024 8:57 am : link
In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:
Quote:
It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.

I think we've established that it takes 6+ years to develop in the NFL, so Neal is only halfway there.

Or are we not giving Neal the same patience that we gave Jones?
RE: RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
TrueBlue56 : 6/8/2024 9:01 am : link
In comment 16532979 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:


Quote:


It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.


I think we've established that it takes 6+ years to develop in the NFL, so Neal is only halfway there.

Or are we not giving Neal the same patience that we gave Jones?


Like A beaten drum. Here comes another comment about Daniel Jones on a thread that has nothing to do with Daniel Jones.
RE: Protecting already against a Year 3 Evan Neal disaster.  
Matt123 : 6/8/2024 9:10 am : link
In comment 16532958 ThomasG said:
Quote:
And probably makes sense.


Agreed, though would be nice to do that without forcing movement all around the line. If they dont become confident in Neal, then perhaps have Eluemenor on the bench waiting to take his spot. Rotation at LG won't help JMS either.

I'm pretty sure  
Bill in UT : 6/8/2024 9:22 am : link
I read a comment from Runyon yesterday(?) that he was happy at RG. Neal apparently is still nursing his ankle post-surgically
They seem lost.  
mittenedman : 6/8/2024 9:44 am : link
Again prioritizing depth and emergency scenarios over putting their best 5 where they belong and letting them rep.
It is starting to sound like the Giants may take the easy out that  
Ivan15 : 6/8/2024 9:46 am : link
Neal Is not fully recovered from ankle surgery and will be replaced by Eleumenor. When Neal is ready, he can start working at LG and as the swing tackle. Neal’s college experience is as freshman LG, sophomore RT and junior LT.

I think Sy’56 said he liked Neal’s sophomore year at RT better than his junior year at LT.
RE: Seems a reasonable approach  
Ivan15 : 6/8/2024 9:57 am : link
In comment 16532963 BillT said:
Quote:
Runyon played RG all last year. He’s not switching sides. And Bricillo was Eluemunor’s OL coach last year. He knows him and what he can do. With Neal a question, having the line organized to accommodate a switch is smart especially with Stinnie and Ezeudu being LGs. And if we’re going to be decimated by injury again, nothing will matter just like for every other team.
_____________
I don’t think Runyon’s position would be an issue if he had not said that he prefers LG. He was a LT in college so that switch to LG probably was easier and more comfortable than switching to RG. However, he played both and now has a lot of pro experience at each spot.
He scores higher as a pass blocker than a run blocker so that may have something to do with putting him at RG.
RE: RE: RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/8/2024 10:25 am : link
In comment 16532981 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16532979 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:


Quote:


It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.


I think we've established that it takes 6+ years to develop in the NFL, so Neal is only halfway there.

Or are we not giving Neal the same patience that we gave Jones?



Like A beaten drum. Here comes another comment about Daniel Jones on a thread that has nothing to do with Daniel Jones.

It's not so much about DJ as it is about being consistent with the application of patience for a young player in a suboptimal situation.
RE: They seem lost.  
BillT : 6/8/2024 10:40 am : link
In comment 16532989 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Again prioritizing depth and emergency scenarios over putting their best 5 where they belong and letting them rep.

The best five as far as we know now are Thomas, Eluemunor, JMS, Runyon and Neal. Exactly who are currently projected as starters. Not prioritizing depth or emergency scenarios.
IF Neal is still not able to go in training camp  
Dave on the UWS : 6/8/2024 10:48 am : link
that's one thing. BUT, he has played 20 games, barely more than ONE season (and a LOT of those games he was injured).
His health (and poor coaching) are the primary reasons he has yet to fulfill his vast potential.
If he can play 17 healthy games this year, we WILL see a massive difference.
RE: They seem lost.  
Optimus-NY : 6/8/2024 11:24 am : link
In comment 16532989 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Again prioritizing depth and emergency scenarios over putting their best 5 where they belong and letting them rep.


+1

That's par for the course for this organization. They've been bottom dwellers for years for a reason.
RE: RE: They seem lost.  
TrueBlue56 : 6/8/2024 12:03 pm : link
In comment 16533026 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16532989 mittenedman said:


Quote:


Again prioritizing depth and emergency scenarios over putting their best 5 where they belong and letting them rep.



+1

That's par for the course for this organization. They've been bottom dwellers for years for a reason.


Do people seriously not read or not actually follow what positions players have actually played? One person makes a comment or posts something and it gets parroted over and over again.

Fact 1 - Jon Runyan jr. Has been playing Right Guard for the last year and a half.

Fact 2 - Jon Runyan jr. Has over 1600 snaps at Right guard for the past 2 seasons.

Fact 3 - last season while playing Right Guard, he allowed only two sacks and six quarterback hits in 568 pass-block snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. His pass rush win rate in 2023 of 94.2 percent was the ninth best among guards.

Fact 4 - JON RUNYAN: Yeah, my whole career, it didn't matter where I played. Early on in the career I played mainly the left, and towards the end, second half, moved over to the right. It feels natural for me now. Kind of when I moved over there about two years ago, I kind of felt like a fish out of water, but it's kind of my home now and I feel comfortable there.

The only player who is changing positions is Eluemunor and he played under Bricillo with the Raiders and Patriots. We all knew when he signed that he was most likely p,saying guard and he was insurance for Neal at Right Tackle.

Continue on with the hand wringing, but at the very least be factual in making statements.
I am curious  
Toth029 : 6/8/2024 12:44 pm : link
How soon they would move Eluemunor over if Neal isn't ready or participating in camp right away. There is Matt Nelson but he's been absent, too. They've been using Josh Ezeudu out at tackle as the "fourth" OT with Neal and Nelson out. Getting stability would be nice, and not waiting until Sept 1 to make that decision.
RE: RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
Spider56 : 6/8/2024 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16532979 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:


Quote:


It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.


I think we've established that it takes 6+ years to develop in the NFL, so Neal is only halfway there.

Or are we not giving Neal the same patience that we gave Jones?


My view has nothing to do with patience as I’m not being critical of Neal. I’m just surprised that he is not yet established at the position. Coming out of Bama, I thought he was a great pick and a guy who would step in and start / star almost immediately. He was dominant in the SEC and he has the size, the tools and the apparent work ethic … it’s all there.
RE: RE: RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
ThomasG : 6/8/2024 1:45 pm : link
In comment 16533055 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16532979 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:


Quote:


It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.


I think we've established that it takes 6+ years to develop in the NFL, so Neal is only halfway there.

Or are we not giving Neal the same patience that we gave Jones?



My view has nothing to do with patience as I’m not being critical of Neal. I’m just surprised that he is not yet established at the position. Coming out of Bama, I thought he was a great pick and a guy who would step in and start / star almost immediately. He was dominant in the SEC and he has the size, the tools and the apparent work ethic … it’s all there.


Neal was a very attractive prospect going into his junior year at Bama. Not sure he had a great third year though before turning pro as he struggled with good SEC pass rushers. However, he certainly had enough of a pedigree, size and power to be a highly sought after NFL prospect.

While injuries have occurred over past 2 years, it just seems that lack of development, particularly in his footwork, from his final year in college has continued. And now it looks so worse because the competition he faces every week is very good.

Hopefully he gets back on the field very soon this summer because he has to develop that footwork and build up some confidence that he can succeed at this level.
While there's a lot of talk about who should be starting  
Bill in UT : 6/8/2024 2:34 pm : link
at which guard spot, it seems almost to be flying under the radar what our situation is if EO has to move to RT, or if he or Runyan get hurt. There seems to be a huge dropoff to our backup guards, unless the older backups, Shlottmann, Stinnie and Mayfield have more than I'm aware of. After them it's just Ezeudu and McKethan, who certainly can't be counted on as of now. I guess it's about the same with the backup T's. Man, this OL still has a ways to go unless Bricillo is a miracle worker.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
JoeSchoens11 : 6/8/2024 3:23 pm : link
In comment 16533009 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16532981 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16532979 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:


Quote:


It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.


I think we've established that it takes 6+ years to develop in the NFL, so Neal is only halfway there.

Or are we not giving Neal the same patience that we gave Jones?



Like A beaten drum. Here comes another comment about Daniel Jones on a thread that has nothing to do with Daniel Jones.


It's not so much about DJ as it is about being consistent with the application of patience for a young player in a suboptimal situation.
The major difference is that QBs are dependent on the OL and the skill players to be successful. An OT just needs to be able to do their job.
RE: I'm generally an optimistic fan...  
Red Right Hand : 6/8/2024 3:52 pm : link
In comment 16532955 Matt123 said:
Quote:
But this seems like another disaster waiting to happen.

Put both guards on sides they're less experienced on, so that when your right tackle fails and you have to move your guard to tackle (on the other side), your weak backup guards will be on their preferred side. That's the plan?

Or maybe Daboll/Carmen are a step ahead of what Ed Valentine is thinking. After last year's musical chairs though, it's hard to assume that.
1500 snaps at RG in the last 19 months, and you are worried about Runyon at RG. OK.

And Bricillo and elumanour who've been together 6 out of 7 years they've been in the NFL, Bricillo doesn't know what he's doing with the man. got it.

I think the pereption that elumanour is the most likely to get moved if neal shits the bed, and therefore sets it up so LG is the position he can
A) most easily replace and
B) has to fill only one spot and not make multiple position changes does seem sound thinking.

RE: It is starting to sound like the Giants may take the easy out that  
Red Right Hand : 6/8/2024 4:01 pm : link
In comment 16532991 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Neal Is not fully recovered from ankle surgery and will be replaced by Eleumenor. When Neal is ready, he can start working at LG and as the swing tackle. Neal’s college experience is as freshman LG, sophomore RT and junior LT.

I think Sy’56 said he liked Neal’s sophomore year at RT better than his junior year at LT.
Um, wouldn't the easy out be to have Elumanour start at RT then, runyon at LG and Stinnie and Ezudu compete for RG???????
RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/8/2024 4:04 pm : link
In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:
Quote:
It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.


To me it's not. First injuries. He played injured his first year. Injure again last year. And just as importantly OL coach sucked.
RE: RE: It is starting to sound like the Giants may take the easy out that  
BillT : 6/8/2024 4:18 pm : link
In comment 16533074 Red Right Hand said:
Quote:
In comment 16532991 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


Neal Is not fully recovered from ankle surgery and will be replaced by Eleumenor. When Neal is ready, he can start working at LG and as the swing tackle. Neal’s college experience is as freshman LG, sophomore RT and junior LT.

I think Sy’56 said he liked Neal’s sophomore year at RT better than his junior year at LT.

Um, wouldn't the easy out be to have Elumanour start at RT then, runyon at LG and Stinnie and Ezudu compete for RG???????

If Eluemunor goes to RT Runyon will stay at RG and Stinnie and Ezeudu will compete at LG. That’s in the article.
RE: While there's a lot of talk about who should be starting  
Kanavis : 6/8/2024 5:02 pm : link
In comment 16533065 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
at which guard spot, it seems almost to be flying under the radar what our situation is if EO has to move to RT, or if he or Runyan get hurt. There seems to be a huge dropoff to our backup guards, unless the older backups, Shlottmann, Stinnie and Mayfield have more than I'm aware of. After them it's just Ezeudu and McKethan, who certainly can't be counted on as of now. I guess it's about the same with the backup T's. Man, this OL still has a ways to go unless Bricillo is a miracle worker.


Agree! Seems like they are a player short at least. I was hoping for a guard in round 3 that could potentially have made Eloumenors move to RT easier if needed. Hoping Neal turns it around. But as a franchise, you can't count on this and assume it.
I think people should listen to the Runyon presser  
UberAlias : 6/8/2024 5:33 pm : link
From this week. Those concerned about him being on the right is not consistent with the players thoughts about it. And it’s not like he hasn’t played there before.
Evan Neal has been and remains  
UberAlias : 6/8/2024 5:42 pm : link
The big concern for this Oline. Runyon will be fine.
I'm going to be optimistic about the O-line ..  
Manny in CA : 6/8/2024 5:45 pm : link

I think Carmen Bricillo is "Just what the doctor ordered", #1 he learned for the best, the Pats' Dante Scarnecchia; #2 Bricillo has had success everywhere he's been

After struggling mightily, both tackle Evan Neal and "swing" guard and tackle "E-Z" Ezeudu actually started to look better, right before they went out injured.

Jon Runyan and Eluemunor are going to be solid guards. Their being there is going to work wonders for JMS, at center.

I'd love to see a fullback in the backfield to shore-up the pass/run blocking. We'll see.
RE: I'm going to be optimistic about the O-line ..  
Bill in UT : 6/8/2024 5:50 pm : link
In comment 16533100 Manny in CA said:
Quote:


I'd love to see a fullback in the backfield to shore-up the pass/run blocking. We'll see.


How about Chapman?
By-the-way, any news on tackle Tyree Phillips ? ....  
Manny in CA : 6/8/2024 5:55 pm : link

It was amazing to see how well he was playing when he came back from the Eagles.

Then the quad injury, "what a kick in the pants" !

Sure could use a healthy Tyree, just about now
I'd go for that, Bill ...  
Manny in CA : 6/8/2024 5:58 pm : link
.
 
christian : 6/8/2024 6:25 pm : link
Carmen Bricillo is the key to this season. Most important Giant outside of Daboll.
RE: RE: I'm generally an optimistic fan...  
BocaGene : 6/8/2024 6:26 pm : link
Where do you get that snap information?

I really want to find out how reps Neal has had with all his injuries.

From some of my rough calculations, a full time OL playing all 17 games (not counting playoffs) would experience approximately 1000 reps per season.

Anyone else have better info re: reps per season.
RE: IF Neal is still not able to go in training camp  
BocaGene : 6/8/2024 6:29 pm : link
In comment 16533016 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
that's one thing. BUT, he has played 20 games, barely more than ONE season (and a LOT of those games he was injured).
His health (and poor coaching) are the primary reasons he has yet to fulfill his vast potential.
If he can play 17 healthy games this year, we WILL see a massive difference.


Ok, just read your post. That was the premise behind my question re: how many reps has Neal had with all his injuries.

I concur that he needs reps to unlock that potential.
RE: By-the-way, any news on tackle Tyree Phillips ? ....  
Del Shofner : 6/8/2024 6:35 pm : link
In comment 16533103 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

It was amazing to see how well he was playing when he came back from the Eagles.

Then the quad injury, "what a kick in the pants" !

Sure could use a healthy Tyree, just about now


It appears he's a free agent.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Obviously the key is Neal … he has to develop.  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/8/2024 7:05 pm : link
In comment 16533070 JoeSchoens11 said:
Quote:
In comment 16533009 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16532981 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16532979 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16532969 Spider56 said:


Quote:


It’s a real puzzle to me why he has not yet gotten it.


I think we've established that it takes 6+ years to develop in the NFL, so Neal is only halfway there.

Or are we not giving Neal the same patience that we gave Jones?



Like A beaten drum. Here comes another comment about Daniel Jones on a thread that has nothing to do with Daniel Jones.


It's not so much about DJ as it is about being consistent with the application of patience for a young player in a suboptimal situation.

The major difference is that QBs are dependent on the OL and the skill players to be successful. An OT just needs to be able to do their job.

What if that OT had the worst OL coach in the league and simultaneously battled injuries?
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