Every year there are some surprise cuts (and guys who make it) so I was looking at some names with training camp on the horizon.
- OLB/DL Boogie Basham: his trade didn't cost much but didn't workout as well as the Isaiah Simmons one last season. In 194 snaps last year he failed to come up with a sack and his reclamation project from his second round status was mostly a failure. The Giants have tried him a bit on the interior at OTAs and fortified the edge in a big way with Burns. Still, behind Burns and Thibs is just paper mache Ojulari. Also, Ryder Anderson, Jordon Riley, Jordan Phillips, DJ Davidson all appear to have a leg up on the interior. If any pass rusher steps up or is added his days could be numbered just one year after his trade.
- WR/PR/KR Isaiah McKenzie: the Giants overhauled the ST unit from coaching on down, including adding extra returners. McKenzie will fight Olszewski for the punt return job (probably among others), TTJ probably will get first crack at kicks. McKenzie has a bit more experience as a slot WR, has KR experience, and knows Daboll but Gunner is the better punt returner (former all-pro) and knows the new assistant ST coach.
- RB Eric Gray: this would be a surprise because we are yet to see the staff give up on a player after just one year but his rookie year was a mess. He failed to step up when Barkley was hurt. They tried to teach him to return kicks but it didn't work. If TTJ can step into his role as a rookie he would firmly be RB3 with no other role. THe injury cut to Brightwell might save his spot, or they stay patient, or they add someone else, or he gets his spot stolen.
- WR Isaiah Hodgins: Hodgins looked like a savior when he was added from waivers mid 2022 to help an anemic receiving group. However, these results failed to carry over to 2023. The Giants brought him back but just on the minimum and didn't pick up his restricted free agent tender. To add to that they recently signed Allen Robinson and Bryce Ford-Wheaton is coming back from injury for that big body depth role. Robinson is a notable blocker and BFW also plays special teams so Hodgins will be tested.
- G/OT Markus McKethan: there was an UDFA getting some earlier reps than him at OTAs (Kubas), they have moved him all over the OL last year, he got hurt year 1, and it took giving up on Glowinski for him to see the field year 2. Now Ezeudu who was the higher pick and also plays guard is being moved around as a possible versatile backup. He needs to have a big preseason to stay on the 53 or they will move on to the next project - save him Bricillo.
Interested in other names, there may be 90 names but the picture becomes clear fast.
And you are basing that on mini camp in June?
Gotcha
Hodgins has been a lead Giant receiver on red zone touchdowns. He has also performed similar to Wan'dale in number of receptions over the last two seasons of 15+ yards. These were distributed over the field. Both had 15 such receptions. Over the last two seasons Hodgins has the best firsts downs to targets ratio of any Giant wide receiver.
McKenzie is always on the bubble anyway, so he could make it or not, depending on how camp unfolds.
Gray may need a fresh start in the XFL or something.
Hodgins is a useful player but a limited one. If he turns out to be a complement to the rest of the WR group, he could stay on. But I don’t think he is the kind of WR they want. I think that possession receiver function goes to the TE and they want fast WRs who get separation.
McKethan is looking like a lottery ticket that didn’t hit enough numbers.
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Hasn't done anything and looks like he's not ready to do anything.
And you are basing that on mini camp in June?
Gotcha
OTAs in June (and May).
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Hasn't done anything and looks like he's not ready to do anything.
And you are basing that on mini camp in June?
Gotcha
No I'm basing it on the fact he hasn't done anything since he walked through the door.
Boogie won't be cut until he shows that he at 275 lbs. cannot be an interior pass rusher in the NFL (which is why the Bills spent a second round pick on him). Last year Wink didn't want to try him there. Until now, he has been an unsuccessful edge rusher, but that isn't really his game.
So, too soon to cut either for now IMO.
Hodgins has been a lead Giant receiver on red zone touchdowns. He has also performed similar to Wan'dale in number of receptions over the last two seasons of 15+ yards. These were distributed over the field. Both had 15 such receptions. Over the last two seasons Hodgins has the best firsts downs to targets ratio of any Giant wide receiver.
I was the biggest Hodgins fan you'll find this time last year. He seemed like found money (like Pinnock) but that next step didn't come. I would love to keep him but the top 4 WRs are pretty much a lock and Hodgins doesn't have a role that helps those end of the roster guys. Definitely on to watch in preseason.
Probably the most controversial here. The staff hasn't cut anyone that quickly before. RB is in serious flux though and he needs to carve a job, Corbin and Miller must be looking at his job going in to camp like hyenas.
Hurt the last two years and coaching change. Coming off of surgery. Settle down Francis
Boogie won't be cut until he shows that he at 275 lbs. cannot be an interior pass rusher in the NFL (which is why the Bills spent a second round pick on him). Last year Wink didn't want to try him there. Until now, he has been an unsuccessful edge rusher, but that isn't really his game.
So, too soon to cut either for now IMO.
Could Ryder Anderson sneak past Basham? He doesn't have the pedigree but the staff has stuck with his development.
Gunner is a better punt returner and may be a better kick returner using the new rules compared to McKenzie. With the other new WRs, I don’t think he makes it.
Not too sure about the others, but this team needs at least 3 RBs.
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0% drops, highest wr passer rating when targeted, 3 touchdowns, 1/3 of targets get firsts down. Those were justs for 2023.
Hodgins has been a lead Giant receiver on red zone touchdowns. He has also performed similar to Wan'dale in number of receptions over the last two seasons of 15+ yards. These were distributed over the field. Both had 15 such receptions. Over the last two seasons Hodgins has the best firsts downs to targets ratio of any Giant wide receiver.
I was the biggest Hodgins fan you'll find this time last year. He seemed like found money (like Pinnock) but that next step didn't come. I would love to keep him but the top 4 WRs are pretty much a lock and Hodgins doesn't have a role that helps those end of the roster guys. Definitely on to watch in preseason.
To me his role is that big red zone target. He has excelled at that on the Giants. Bryce Ford-Wheaton is a big target but an unproven player. I'd take the proven commodity in Hodgins.
Yeah, out of OP’S 5, Gray is the one I don’t agree. With only 5 RBs in camp, we may see only one cut, and it won’t be Gray.
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In comment 16533127 gogiants said:
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0% drops, highest wr passer rating when targeted, 3 touchdowns, 1/3 of targets get firsts down. Those were justs for 2023.
Hodgins has been a lead Giant receiver on red zone touchdowns. He has also performed similar to Wan'dale in number of receptions over the last two seasons of 15+ yards. These were distributed over the field. Both had 15 such receptions. Over the last two seasons Hodgins has the best firsts downs to targets ratio of any Giant wide receiver.
I was the biggest Hodgins fan you'll find this time last year. He seemed like found money (like Pinnock) but that next step didn't come. I would love to keep him but the top 4 WRs are pretty much a lock and Hodgins doesn't have a role that helps those end of the roster guys. Definitely on to watch in preseason.
To me his role is that big red zone target. He has excelled at that on the Giants. Bryce Ford-Wheaton is a big target but an unproven player. I'd take the proven commodity in Hodgins.
Issue is that big target may be the new TE. I like Hodgins but he’s the 5th WR at best. So gotta believe he’s at least at risk in the slot.
Gary is going nowhere unless he just horrible
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Gray bombed last season because his is not a punt returner (never was any good at it) and he could not pass block last year (he was going to get the QB crushed).
Boogie won't be cut until he shows that he at 275 lbs. cannot be an interior pass rusher in the NFL (which is why the Bills spent a second round pick on him). Last year Wink didn't want to try him there. Until now, he has been an unsuccessful edge rusher, but that isn't really his game.
So, too soon to cut either for now IMO.
Could Ryder Anderson sneak past Basham? He doesn't have the pedigree but the staff has stuck with his development.
Different positions.
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In comment 16533118 JerseyCityJoe said:
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Hasn't done anything and looks like he's not ready to do anything.
And you are basing that on mini camp in June?
Gotcha
No I'm basing it on the fact he hasn't done anything since he walked through the door.
... that's not the same as he hasn't done anything.
He needs to work on his pass pro and he'll see the field a lot.
I do think Tracy gets a lot of reps, too, because of how versatile he is and Daboll shifts and motions the backs an awful lot.
Between-the-tackles runner, not a sledge hammer, but good enough. As far as a game changer, he's not a guy who is looking to break to the sideline and break a big one.
There was ONE guy is this year's draft that would have been ideal to fill this role, at 240 pounds Wisconsin's Braelon Allen. The Jets took him in the 4th round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1WeA3p9P0g
Lol….whats funny is I’m starting to agree with you……but in all fairness, being such a high draft pick, I’m sure there is no chance he gets cut in hopes he can make people look smart.
2. McKenzie….I would not cut him because he is our WanDale replacement should he get injured. Knows what Daboll likes too.
3. Hodgens…. could see this, now that we have Theo and a few other big guys to catch TDs in the red zone.
4. McKethan…..absolutely
5. Gray……not a chance.
It was a lost season for Gray. Coaches totally screwed up.
I’m actually anxious to see him at RB this season.
The others, not so much. There is probably no difference to this team whether they make the roster or not. But at least could use their snaps for summer camp and preseason.
It was a lost season for Gray. Coaches totally screwed up.
I’m actually anxious to see him at RB this season.
They gave him a crack vs Miami when Barkley was hurt, but went with Breida and Brightwell first, then never trusted him again after that. That's a miniscule sample but shows what the staff thought of him - that one start was 12 carries for 24 yards.
2. McKenzie….I would not cut him because he is our WanDale replacement should he get injured. Knows what Daboll likes too.
3. Hodgens…. could see this, now that we have Theo and a few other big guys to catch TDs in the red zone.
4. McKethan…..absolutely
5. Gray……not a chance.
McKenzie never broke 300 yards with Daboll, so not sure being Wan'Dale's "backup" will be enough for a roster spot if he doesn't win the return job. Maybe like Beasley they would try to move him to the practice squad.
It’s almost as if some of you just started watching football
It’s almost as if some of you just started watching football
Ray-Ray Mccloud is a good comparable example. He was taken by the Bills 15 picks later than where Gray was taken and couldn't find a role in Daboll's offense so they cut him year 2. Jason Pinnock was taken 3 picks later and the Jets tried to sneak him to the practice squad year 2 after rookie struggles. Teams actually do this all the time with late picks.
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A rookie struggles a bit in an insanely small sample size so let’s cut him!
It’s almost as if some of you just started watching football
Ray-Ray Mccloud is a good comparable example. He was taken by the Bills 15 picks later than where Gray was taken and couldn't find a role in Daboll's offense so they cut him year 2. Jason Pinnock was taken 3 picks later and the Jets tried to sneak him to the practice squad year 2 after rookie struggles. Teams actually do this all the time with late picks.
Pinnock is a terrible example if you’re trying to get your point across. He’s now a productive NFL starter. But the greater point is none of us saw anywhere near enough of Gray to have a clue on whether he should be cut. Making that proclamation based on the amount of time we seen him play is ludicrous. He was stuck behind Barkley for crying out loud. And why do we make excuses for others and blame the horrific OL play for everything but a rookie RB that barely played should be expected to overcome that major issue?
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In comment 16533283 BigBlueShock said:
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A rookie struggles a bit in an insanely small sample size so let’s cut him!
It’s almost as if some of you just started watching football
Ray-Ray Mccloud is a good comparable example. He was taken by the Bills 15 picks later than where Gray was taken and couldn't find a role in Daboll's offense so they cut him year 2. Jason Pinnock was taken 3 picks later and the Jets tried to sneak him to the practice squad year 2 after rookie struggles. Teams actually do this all the time with late picks.
Pinnock is a terrible example if you’re trying to get your point across. He’s now a productive NFL starter. But the greater point is none of us saw anywhere near enough of Gray to have a clue on whether he should be cut. Making that proclamation based on the amount of time we seen him play is ludicrous. He was stuck behind Barkley for crying out loud. And why do we make excuses for others and blame the horrific OL play for everything but a rookie RB that barely played should be expected to overcome that major issue?
Pinnock had to change positions and was bad as a corner, so it is similar because Gray showed nothing as a RB, they didn't trust him, and tried to teach him a new role.
Not only did he not overtake Barkley, but Breida and Brightwell - even when they lost Brightwell he couldn't get a single snap. Jets were not trying to get Pinnock on the field by cutting him. Giants tried Gray at kick return and they took him off that too. They were actively replacing him all year.
All others discussed are certainly possible although Gray will only be vulnerable if 2 of group behind him actually step up and seize the position.
I think with Robinson plus the death of Daniel Jones being greatly exaggerated, there's a viable chance the Giants only keep three running backs on the active roster.
I think to keep four, that guy has to be a no questions returner.
Dottino raised that as a possibility before OTAs even started.
There have been no reports of him being moved.
Dottino raised that as a possibility before OTAs even started.
There have been no reports of him being moved.
Lineup reports seem hard to come by this year but I thought Duggan reported him at both (maybe I'm wrong), 2nd team OLB and some reps at 3rd team IDL or maybe it was just DE in 3 man front packages.
You have to cut them to get to the practice squad. They either go on waivers or are free agents - they could try to add them to the practice squad but there are no guarantees, this is just the 53 they control.
McKethan only has $130K guaranteed. Ezeudu is in front of him, plus Stinnie and Schlottmann were added and aren't any more expensive. Plus Kubas who was getting some OTA reps over him is on a 3 year UDFA deal, same goes for Dante Miller who could fight for Gray's spot with his return abilities.
Agreed. Indecisive,too. A bad combination.
Worth noting that in 2019, 2020, and 2022 McKenzie couldn't even win the punt return jobs on his own teams - so Gunner isn't just better, he's much better. Nabers and Hyatt both have extensive slot experience so that may have them lower the priority of using a roster spot on the 53 for a backup who is an inferior returner. Gunner was also an all pro returner the Patriots where he handled both punts and kicks for Cam Achord, the Giants new assistant ST coordinator.
Asante could be in interesting curve ball I've seen mentioned by a couple beat reporters. He plays slot, and has experience with both kicks and punts. Coming from Holy Cross and Wyoming it is hard to get much info on him, but I could see him being this year's UDFA WR preseason darling. The main roster might be a stretch but he seems like a prime name for the practice squad.
The timing of Allen Robinson is surprising. He is a completely different slot WR (7th in NFL in slot snaps last year and mainly used as a blocker) than Wan'Dale or McKenzie so I'm curious what their plans for him are.
The surprise cut would be Slayton. We really gonna pay a guy $7M this year to be WR4? Saves 3.4M to cut him.
A guy like Hodgins can slot in at WR4 for a fraction of the cost.
The Giants don't have a Depth Chart yet, at least not an official one. Unofficially, what they do have will change during OTA's, as Daboll noted.
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Several have pointed out that Gunner is a better returner than McKenzie and I don't disagree but McKenzie is #2 Slot on the depth chart and a proven vet receiver. If we cut McKenzie then we have to keep Allen Robinson and maybe also Ayir Asante. Seems more likely to me that barring injuries we keep McKenzie and cut Gunner.
The Giants don't have a Depth Chart yet, at least not an official one. Unofficially, what they do have will change during OTA's, as Daboll noted.
When we officially establish a depth chart is not the point. I love Wandale but he's been injury prone and we need to plan for depth. The point is that cutting a proven vet in McKenzie is risky.