This team is in the midst of a rebuild and needs to get younger anyway.
I agreed with the trade when it happened - if we were going to be stuck running it back with Daniel Jones then Schoen needed to try to give him as many resources as possible and give him the best chance for success.
It was a two year deal that really wasn't going to set the team back much if it didn't work out (which obviously it didn't). I wish Waller well in his retirement.
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
This team is in the midst of a rebuild and needs to get younger anyway.
I agreed with the trade when it happened - if we were going to be stuck running it back with Daniel Jones then Schoen needed to try to give him as many resources as possible and give him the best chance for success.
It was a two year deal that really wasn't going to set the team back much if it didn't work out (which obviously it didn't). I wish Waller well in his retirement.
It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. He can unretire after his divorce settles or after training camp ends or who knows when. I'm not sure how that all works in terms of fines and cap implications, but I'm not convinced we've heard the last of him.
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
Gimme a break
Also Boogie Bash.... That has been a bad trade thus far, however only a 6th.
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
Gimme a break
Also Boogie Bash.... That has been a bad trade thus far, however only a 6th.
Don't forget the 7th rounder for Simmons from Arizona.
Joe Schoen better hope his last two drafts produce or he'll be
shuffling back to Buffalo.
He's been trying to address the line with premium picks. Neal wasn't a controversial pick, and neither was Schmitz. Coaching and development has to be better, though.
he was 2nd on the team in receptions (52) and 2nd in receiving yards (552) in 12 games. It really puts into perspective just how bad the Giants were on offense last year.
And, when they traded for him - they did not have much in the way of receiving weapons. Was worth the risk - did not work out. Wish him well. We have 2 solid blocking TEs and some young players we can develop.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: for those still defending the trade
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
Gimme a break
Also Boogie Bash.... That has been a bad trade thus far, however only a 6th.
Don't forget the 7th rounder for Simmons from Arizona.
Again I said major trade
For a 7th rd pick….i wouldn’t exactly call that trade a bust
...Not saying the Giants shouldn't have made the trade at the time, but really shows how little production the Giants got for Waller for the $12 million. Tre Tucker - ( New Window )
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Was tied up yesterday, so here are a few additional thoughts on Darren Waller's retirement:
• Most of the focus has understandably been on the cap impact for the Giants, but Waller left serious money on the table. Had he been on the roster in Week 1, he would have guaranteed his $10.5M salary for the season. He would have earned another $200K by participating in the offseason program and would have earned an additional $75K for every game he was active. Walking away from $12M can't be a decision made lightly.
• Waller referenced in his retirement video that he thinks he owes the Giants $750K in bonus money. That's from his restructure last year. Instead of a straight restructure to convert $9.8M of his base salary into a bonus for cap purposes, $8.8 was converted into a bonus for cap purposes (and got paid out weekly during the season) and he got $1M in a signing bonus last April.
The Giants could try to recoup the $750K proration remaining from that signing bonus, but I would be surprised if they went that route, especially with them releasing a statement about their respect for him as a person.
• Waller's retirement will open a roster spot. Imagine the Giants will have a few vets participate in this week's minicamp as tryouts as they've done in the past.
• Waller had 52 catches for 552 yards in 12 games during a disappointing 2023 season. Aside from Daniel Bellinger, the four other tight ends on the roster with NFL experience have combined for 68 catches for 665 yards in 207 games.
experience last November. That seems pretty odd and somewhat shady considering nothing was mentioned about him being sick etc at that time. This coming out now and the way he describes it leaves a LOT to wonder about.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
experience last November. That seems pretty odd and somewhat shady considering nothing was mentioned about him being sick etc at that time. This coming out now and the way he describes it leaves a LOT to wonder about.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
I didn't include it in my front page update because it seems fishy to me.
We really have sucked at the whole Free agency thing for a while now... lol
When was Waller a free agent?
Yeah, OK I misspoke. Appreciate the callout. I think you know what I mean. Trades, Free agents, etc. Doesn't matter. We have SUCKED at evaluating and signing other teams' players other than Leonard Williams. Regardless of how we came by adding them. I'm Hopeful Burns breaks the typical trend, but the point stands.
The Giants could try to recoup the $750K proration remaining from that signing bonus, but I would be surprised if they went that route, especially with them releasing a statement about their respect for him as a person.
Why would a business simply forget about $750K they are owed because they person who owes it is a nice guy?
Getting that back from Waller has no cap implications so I am not suggesting it is hurting the team, and it's the Maras' and Tischs' money not mine, but it seems odd to me to waive a substantial amount owed by someone who should certainly be able to repay it for ending their contract early.
The Giants could try to recoup the $750K proration remaining from that signing bonus, but I would be surprised if they went that route, especially with them releasing a statement about their respect for him as a person.
Why would a business simply forget about $750K they are owed because they person who owes it is a nice guy?
Getting that back from Waller has no cap implications so I am not suggesting it is hurting the team, and it's the Maras' and Tischs' money not mine, but it seems odd to me to waive a substantial amount owed by someone who should certainly be able to repay it for ending their contract early.
All I can think of is that in terms NFL big business 750k is just not meaningful enough to perhaps take a chance in having the team look small in the eyes of other more important players in terms of business. The other thing is, maybe they don't want Waller reconsidering anything in terms of retirement so let sleeping dogs lie.
experience last November. That seems pretty odd and somewhat shady considering nothing was mentioned about him being sick etc at that time. This coming out now and the way he describes it leaves a LOT to wonder about.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
I didn't include it in my front page update because it seems fishy to me.
Yeah, his whole description of the issue and what happened seems very, very questionable and worrisome. But, he is no longer on the Giants so whatever the issues are they won't upset the season or the team. I hope he gets the help he seems to need.
We really have sucked at the whole Free agency thing for a while now... lol
When was Waller a free agent?
Yeah, OK I misspoke. Appreciate the callout. I think you know what I mean. Trades, Free agents, etc. Doesn't matter. We have SUCKED at evaluating and signing other teams' players other than Leonard Williams. Regardless of how we came by adding them. I'm Hopeful Burns breaks the typical trend, but the point stands.
We really have sucked at the whole Free agency thing for a while now... lol
When was Waller a free agent?
Yeah, OK I misspoke. Appreciate the callout. I think you know what I mean. Trades, Free agents, etc. Doesn't matter. We have SUCKED at evaluating and signing other teams' players other than Leonard Williams. Regardless of how we came by adding them. I'm Hopeful Burns breaks the typical trend, but the point stands.
Bobby Okereke looks good so far.
Yep that's definitely true. So Williams and Okereke definite hits. So 2 out of how many FA and trade targets over the past 10 years or so. Not good. Not sure why people are disagreeing with me on this... lol
Probably the second best receiving TE just two years ago.
No, not even close. Two years ago (2022) he caught 28 balls for 388 yards. Three years ago (2021) his stats were about the same as they were in 2023 for the Giants.
You have to go back four years, to 2020, to find the guy that fits your description.
experience last November. That seems pretty odd and somewhat shady considering nothing was mentioned about him being sick etc at that time. This coming out now and the way he describes it leaves a LOT to wonder about.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
I didn't include it in my front page update because it seems fishy to me.
Yeah, his whole description of the issue and what happened seems very, very questionable and worrisome. But, he is no longer on the Giants so whatever the issues are they won't upset the season or the team. I hope he gets the help he seems to need.
Not to mention he spent his weekend away from the team's weekend road trip to play his former team deciding to go and record a song, and he got 'deathly ill' on the way home from that? Whole thing is suspect af.
When was Waller a free agent?
Other than that, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
We traded a draft pick for him, but to be fair, we have sucked at everything for a decade
I agreed with the trade when it happened - if we were going to be stuck running it back with Daniel Jones then Schoen needed to try to give him as many resources as possible and give him the best chance for success.
It was a two year deal that really wasn't going to set the team back much if it didn't work out (which obviously it didn't). I wish Waller well in his retirement.
No it wasn't a horrendous trade. It was a trade that did not work out as hoped.
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
My recollection was that the trade was well received
Quote:
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
Quote:
In comment 16533606 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
Gimme a break
I agreed with the trade when it happened - if we were going to be stuck running it back with Daniel Jones then Schoen needed to try to give him as many resources as possible and give him the best chance for success.
It was a two year deal that really wasn't going to set the team back much if it didn't work out (which obviously it didn't). I wish Waller well in his retirement.
+1
There it is!
The second time should be better.
Quote:
In comment 16533610 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16533606 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
Gimme a break
Also Boogie Bash.... That has been a bad trade thus far, however only a 6th.
Joe Schoen better hope his last two drafts produce or he'll be
shuffling back to Buffalo.
Music video is incredibly bad. I wasn’t expecting much but it was far worse.
Quote:
In comment 16533621 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
In comment 16533610 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16533606 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
Gimme a break
Also Boogie Bash.... That has been a bad trade thus far, however only a 6th.
Don't forget the 7th rounder for Simmons from Arizona.
North of 30 and a huge history of injuries .... what were they thinking?
Quote:
But man. Horrendous trade. A 3rd round pick for him.
He still contributed more than Toney did.
It isn't about Tony. Getting a nice 3rd round pick for him and wasting it doesn't make anyone feel any better.
We could have gotten an extremely nice cost controlled player in the 3rd round and we got 1 year of nada. Imagine another lineman.
North of 30 and a huge history of injuries .... what were they thinking?
This is what they were thinking:
"We have to get more weapons for Daniel."
That's why trying to fix the shit around your QB (instead of trying to fix the actual QB problem) is just as difficult a needle to thread, IMO.
Joe Schoen better hope his last two drafts produce or he'll be
shuffling back to Buffalo.
He's been trying to address the line with premium picks. Neal wasn't a controversial pick, and neither was Schmitz. Coaching and development has to be better, though.
There have been a number or exceptions. OJ Anderson and Sam Madison to name a couple.
Darren Waller Announces His Retirement - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16533623 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16533621 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
In comment 16533610 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16533606 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
how many more missed trades have to occur before you start to question if Schoen has the right wisdom to be the GM?
How many trades has JS missed on?
There was literally nothing wrong with this trade
it didn't work out - and that's the only thing that matters. If Schoen makes more decisions that don't work out, at some point he should be replaced. Just trying to figure out where others think that point is.
There guy has literally made 2 trades or significance
Waller and Burns
Do one doesn’t work out and you are already asking this question?
Gimme a break
Also Boogie Bash.... That has been a bad trade thus far, however only a 6th.
Don't forget the 7th rounder for Simmons from Arizona.
Again I said major trade
For a 7th rd pick….i wouldn’t exactly call that trade a bust
Tre Tucker - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
@DDuggan21
Was tied up yesterday, so here are a few additional thoughts on Darren Waller's retirement:
• Most of the focus has understandably been on the cap impact for the Giants, but Waller left serious money on the table. Had he been on the roster in Week 1, he would have guaranteed his $10.5M salary for the season. He would have earned another $200K by participating in the offseason program and would have earned an additional $75K for every game he was active. Walking away from $12M can't be a decision made lightly.
• Waller referenced in his retirement video that he thinks he owes the Giants $750K in bonus money. That's from his restructure last year. Instead of a straight restructure to convert $9.8M of his base salary into a bonus for cap purposes, $8.8 was converted into a bonus for cap purposes (and got paid out weekly during the season) and he got $1M in a signing bonus last April.
The Giants could try to recoup the $750K proration remaining from that signing bonus, but I would be surprised if they went that route, especially with them releasing a statement about their respect for him as a person.
• Waller's retirement will open a roster spot. Imagine the Giants will have a few vets participate in this week's minicamp as tryouts as they've done in the past.
• Waller had 52 catches for 552 yards in 12 games during a disappointing 2023 season. Aside from Daniel Bellinger, the four other tight ends on the roster with NFL experience have combined for 68 catches for 665 yards in 207 games.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
I didn't include it in my front page update because it seems fishy to me.
Quote:
We really have sucked at the whole Free agency thing for a while now... lol
When was Waller a free agent?
Yeah, OK I misspoke. Appreciate the callout. I think you know what I mean. Trades, Free agents, etc. Doesn't matter. We have SUCKED at evaluating and signing other teams' players other than Leonard Williams. Regardless of how we came by adding them. I'm Hopeful Burns breaks the typical trend, but the point stands.
I hope he remains healthy, but I'm glad to be moving on in terms of football.
Why would a business simply forget about $750K they are owed because they person who owes it is a nice guy?
Getting that back from Waller has no cap implications so I am not suggesting it is hurting the team, and it's the Maras' and Tischs' money not mine, but it seems odd to me to waive a substantial amount owed by someone who should certainly be able to repay it for ending their contract early.
Quote:
The Giants could try to recoup the $750K proration remaining from that signing bonus, but I would be surprised if they went that route, especially with them releasing a statement about their respect for him as a person.
Why would a business simply forget about $750K they are owed because they person who owes it is a nice guy?
Getting that back from Waller has no cap implications so I am not suggesting it is hurting the team, and it's the Maras' and Tischs' money not mine, but it seems odd to me to waive a substantial amount owed by someone who should certainly be able to repay it for ending their contract early.
All I can think of is that in terms NFL big business 750k is just not meaningful enough to perhaps take a chance in having the team look small in the eyes of other more important players in terms of business. The other thing is, maybe they don't want Waller reconsidering anything in terms of retirement so let sleeping dogs lie.
Quote:
experience last November. That seems pretty odd and somewhat shady considering nothing was mentioned about him being sick etc at that time. This coming out now and the way he describes it leaves a LOT to wonder about.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
I didn't include it in my front page update because it seems fishy to me.
Yeah, his whole description of the issue and what happened seems very, very questionable and worrisome. But, he is no longer on the Giants so whatever the issues are they won't upset the season or the team. I hope he gets the help he seems to need.
Quote:
In comment 16533460 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
We really have sucked at the whole Free agency thing for a while now... lol
When was Waller a free agent?
Yeah, OK I misspoke. Appreciate the callout. I think you know what I mean. Trades, Free agents, etc. Doesn't matter. We have SUCKED at evaluating and signing other teams' players other than Leonard Williams. Regardless of how we came by adding them. I'm Hopeful Burns breaks the typical trend, but the point stands.
Bobby Okereke looks good so far.
Quote:
In comment 16533574 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16533460 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
We really have sucked at the whole Free agency thing for a while now... lol
When was Waller a free agent?
Yeah, OK I misspoke. Appreciate the callout. I think you know what I mean. Trades, Free agents, etc. Doesn't matter. We have SUCKED at evaluating and signing other teams' players other than Leonard Williams. Regardless of how we came by adding them. I'm Hopeful Burns breaks the typical trend, but the point stands.
Bobby Okereke looks good so far.
Yep that's definitely true. So Williams and Okereke definite hits. So 2 out of how many FA and trade targets over the past 10 years or so. Not good. Not sure why people are disagreeing with me on this... lol
Really sucks, tough break for everyone involved.
Condolences.
No, not even close. Two years ago (2022) he caught 28 balls for 388 yards. Three years ago (2021) his stats were about the same as they were in 2023 for the Giants.
You have to go back four years, to 2020, to find the guy that fits your description.
Quote:
In comment 16533899 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
experience last November. That seems pretty odd and somewhat shady considering nothing was mentioned about him being sick etc at that time. This coming out now and the way he describes it leaves a LOT to wonder about.
I wish the dude well but clearly he needs outside counsel and help to stay the course.
I didn't include it in my front page update because it seems fishy to me.
Yeah, his whole description of the issue and what happened seems very, very questionable and worrisome. But, he is no longer on the Giants so whatever the issues are they won't upset the season or the team. I hope he gets the help he seems to need.
Not to mention he spent his weekend away from the team's weekend road trip to play his former team deciding to go and record a song, and he got 'deathly ill' on the way home from that? Whole thing is suspect af.