I'm thinking surely they mean this year since Waller retired. I go to OTC and check, and yep, we only are 11 mil under the cap for NEXT year. I'm thinking to myself "wasn't all this recent pain under Schoen because we've been dumping garbage contracts that DG made & freeing up some room to make some moves?" So I look some more, and come to see, as many years out as OTC goes ( up to 2027 projections, I think) we are, and will continue to be one of the most cash strapped teams for the next 4 years at least.
I Look at the dead money. No dead money.
Look at inactive money, little to none. we have more dollars going to actual people on payroll who are active with the team than almost any other team in the NFL. We have no spare dollars, and all the dollars we are spending are doing actual work.
Which leads me to this conclusion. What we have is what we have, more or less, for the foreseeable future. For purposes of this discussion we'll define "foreseeable future" as far as OTC covers, that seems reasonable to me.
That is to say, It seems Schoen has, in fact, already built his roster.He's signed everyone on the team, but for like 4-5 guys, they are his, and he has enough of them under contract that it's not likely you'll see moves as splashy as this year,as going forward we will continue to have less cap space than most of the rest of the league.
Here's the punchline. Won't it be funny when Neal leaves, not because he still sucks( he may) but because the money isn't there to pay him? There was no real rush to dump McKinney. except money, and we have downgraded a few positions over the last few years due to cash crush.
Let's hope the guys we aquired work out, because far as I can tell we married to a lot of them for awhile. If this roster changes drastially over the next few years, It will only be if Schoen isn't around and it's some other guys turn to bite the bullet. This is his roster, for the foreseeable future, that's what he built.
daniel jones can be cut and it will create over 30+m of cap space, but then we need a QB.
in 2024 either their 3 offseasons worth of moves will deliver or they wont, and if it's the latter there's a good chance there's someone new somewhere in that decision making hierarchy.
daniel jones can be cut and it will create over 30+m of cap space, but then we need a QB.
We need a QB whether Jones is on the team or not.
The line up is littered with guy making top 1/3 money at their positions or top 2 round picks.
Wow is that painful. Amazingly, I could see Pinnock who was drafted that year, just not actually by the Giants, as someone who could get an extension. We'll see what the new staff thinks of Belton and Owens.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
The line up is littered with guy making top 1/3 money at their positions or top 2 round picks.
Exactly. This is the team they came here to build.
Expectations should be sky high.
The line up is littered with guy making top 1/3 money at their positions or top 2 round picks.
Exactly. This is the team they came here to build.
Expectations should be sky high.
Look at this way. If Justin Herbert was the QB, the Giants would be a hands down Super Bowl favorite.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
good to know!
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This is the plan.
The line up is littered with guy making top 1/3 money at their positions or top 2 round picks.
Exactly. This is the team they came here to build.
Expectations should be sky high.
Look at this way. If Justin Herbert was the QB, the Giants would be a hands down Super Bowl favorite.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
good to know!
The scary part, which will be the subplot of the offseason if Jones escapes this year healthy -- Jones is cheaper next year.
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This is the plan.
The line up is littered with guy making top 1/3 money at their positions or top 2 round picks.
Exactly. This is the team they came here to build.
Expectations should be sky high.
Look at this way. If Justin Herbert was the QB, the Giants would be a hands down Super Bowl favorite.
Lol I hope this is sarcasm
in 2024 either their 3 offseasons worth of moves will deliver or they wont, and if it's the latter there's a good chance there's someone new somewhere in that decision making hierarchy.
The line up is littered with guy making top 1/3 money at their positions or top 2 round picks.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
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With Waller's retirement the Giants have operational space today.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
So this isn't the team, it's gonna be drastically different and all those guys are gone. Got it. I think you are wrong, I think all those guys are gonna be part of this going forward.
He's not saying they will trade them, he is saying they can restructure their deals to clear operational cap space for this season.
The Giants have plenty of money to move around on Okereke, Burns, Thomas, and Lawrence because they have big salaries this year and plenty of years left to move that money.
They have drafted Slaytons replacement in Hyatt already.
Nobody else is a FA after the season.
This assumes Flott/Phillips win their camp battles at CB2/CB3.
Roches/Davidson/Riley one of them win the jobs at DTs.
everyone else on the roster on offense and defense will be under contract.
Gillians would be a FA as well but hes a P and wont command top money at all for his position.
This is our team for the next 2-3 years for sure.
Pinnock is a guy imo i would offer a team friendly extension too maybe before camp/season starts.
This is a move id love to see Schoen make.
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With Waller's retirement the Giants have operational space today.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
So this isn't the team, it's gonna be drastically different and all those guys are gone. Got it. I think you are wrong, I think all those guys are gonna be part of this going forward.
Those guys + Banks, KT, Nabers, JMS, Nubin, Wan’Dale, Hyatt…im not sure it’s such a bad thing?
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We suck again! Just when I thought we were good! Thank god for Capilogists like OP
You're a fucking moron. Don't put words in my mouth asshole. No one said we were fucked but you.
Hello? One of your points was not being able to pay Neal if he deserves it. Like…everyone should’ve stopped reading after that ludicrous statement. And I’m the moron? Save the cap threads for people smarter than us…ok?
It never comes up because it is not a meaningful question. Of course they won't be forced as they have plenty of space and plenty of other people to restructure - AT, DL, Okereke, Burns. But even if they do restructure DJ it means nothing other than they decided to spend more money this year. If they cut DJ and they need more money they just restructure someone else then.
We have plenty of money to spend. If we wanted to we could spend $100MM more this year and just push the money into future years. It is what the Eagles constantly do. The question is whether that is smart. For us, no way. For the Eagles, maybe, although I think the strategy gets Howie fired in the next 2 to 4 years if they don't win a SB.
Looking at how much cap space you have in a given year tells you almost nothing about a team's actual cap health, even though it is what commentators often focus on. What matters is how much you have spent but not recognized plus what you have committed to spend (i.e. guarantees). That tells you your actual cap space. The last element of judging cap health is whether the money being recognized is on players worth the freight. I.e. no Golladays. The Eagles cap situation is abysmal, but they have mostly paid good players so it has worked. If Hurts is not great or near great, they are in desperate trouble. Even if he is great they have serious cap structure problems in the 2- 4 year range. The Giants simply don't.
So you don't think Burns, Thomas, Okereke, and Lawrence are any good? They are top guys against the cap next year, other than Jones.
Link - ( New Window )
They have drafted Slaytons replacement in Hyatt already.
Nobody else is a FA after the season.
This assumes Flott/Phillips win their camp battles at CB2/CB3.
Roches/Davidson/Riley one of them win the jobs at DTs.
everyone else on the roster on offense and defense will be under contract.
Gillians would be a FA as well but hes a P and wont command top money at all for his position.
This is our team for the next 2-3 years for sure.
Pinnock is a guy imo i would offer a team friendly extension too maybe before camp/season starts.
This is a move id love to see Schoen make.
Those are peripheral, and not central to the point I was trying to make, that Scoen has mida got the framework of whats he's trying to do, and Daboll Kinda has his ooting under him>
The hand greanade in the room is Jones, and Schoen can pull the pin next year iff he wants and either free up 20 mil, draft a QB, or sign a vet. Hell, he could cut Jones and resign him for 27-30 mil. Fcat is, Jones with his warts and limitations, can still run the type off Offense both Scoen and Daboll are trying ti build. Do we Really think Daniel joins Balls are going to fail him? is that what we think?
It's Possible. I'm not so sure. Not a anboy, But I know what I've seen, and i he stays healthy Jones is adequate to compete.
Put it this way. If the Giants stay healthy, and are so going into week 1 healthy, do you want to be faccing them.
I'd bet they were a team playing well.
Jones is nothing special, he does have some physical and character traits. No one would argue he's an instinctual passer( in a good way) or an that he has exceptional perception either. If we're honest, he can run this offense ( not that that's high praise) and this team late in the yearif healthy could be scary. A DJ with 155 games healthy of not getting splatterred all year? I can see how that guy might perform considerably better his 3rd year in a system with a front that gave more time to compensate for his shortcomings, and he can be opportunistic. could be scary.
Eithewr way even if we move on, I still say he's gonna roll with whats he brought in, give it time to develop and see what he has. QB may change but we're going to look like this for a few years
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With Waller's retirement the Giants have operational space today.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
good to know!
The scary part, which will be the subplot of the offseason if Jones escapes this year healthy -- Jones is cheaper next year.
[quote] In comment 16533654 Red Right Hand said:
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In comment 16533605 christian said:
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With Waller's retirement the Giants have operational space today.
The Giants can move nearly 40M on Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns off of this year if they want.
So this isn't the team, it's gonna be drastically different and all those guys are gone. Got it. I think you are wrong, I think all those guys are gonna be part of this going forward.
Those guys + Banks, KT, Nabers, JMS, Nubin, W You make my point. If he really wanted to Bring other guys in, he ould have. He hasn't, unles you count a new O line and recieving corps. Just like he ould have gottens a QB if he REALLY wanted, the way the Giantsa wanted Manning. He clearly didn't feel that way, and he can walk away from himnext year if he wants, or possibly force a pay cut? As pointed out, he has lattitude, but I still think the initial points are valid It's his guys that he picked, and he's got the ones he wants under contract. He's in a great position if his judgement pans out.To me Jones is a non-factors, because the assets he frees up dumping him will likely go towards a QB, ofr one or two high proffile pick ups, not more general purging and revamping a roster.
We have plenty of money to spend. If we wanted to we could spend $100MM more this year and just push the money into future years. It is what the Eagles constantly do. The question is whether that is smart. For us, no way. For the Eagles, maybe, although I think the strategy gets Howie fired in the next 2 to 4 years if they don't win a SB.
Looking at how much cap space you have in a given year tells you almost nothing about a team's actual cap health, even though it is what commentators often focus on. What matters is how much you have spent but not recognized plus what you have committed to spend (i.e. guarantees). That tells you your actual cap space. The last element of judging cap health is whether the money being recognized is on players worth the freight. I.e. no Golladays. The Eagles cap situation is abysmal, but they have mostly paid good players so it has worked. If Hurts is not great or near great, they are in desperate trouble. Even if he is great they have serious cap structure problems in the 2- 4 year range. The Giants simply don't.
Respectfully, sir, It wasn't my intent to talk about the cap. The underlying premise was simply this. The way in which Schoen has spent his money, and strutured it, tells me, he already has the core of the team he wants, and further has made sure HID guys, the ones that are his GUYS, are going to be here.Now if you find thast, after looking at the info I did, If you don't think that's thew case, then fine, but at that point it seems you are taking the position, functionally, that looking at spending patterns is useless, because you can say ANY team can come up with 100 mil if they really want to. Ultimately your saying spendind aps and how much was has already spent or not spent, there forever is a bottomless well that can always be drawn up, and I just thinks that is silly. saying a team at the bottom of the league ccan do what it wants year after year when our own eyes tell us they've already been constrained for years.Bottom line you an tell what management thinks of it's roster by how it spends and I think this roster is going to be WAY more stable over the next 3 years than it has the last 3.
2025 - 30.5M
2026 - 47.5M
After 2024, he is on the one year at a time plan.
The projected non-exclusive franchise tender for next year is 42M for referenc. I think it will take a serious disaster for him to be cut after this year. Even if they draft a quarterback, 30.5M won't be bad bridge money.
2025 - 30.5M
2026 - 47.5M
After 2024, he is on the one year at a time plan.
The projected non-exclusive franchise tender for next year is 42M for referenc. I think it will take a serious disaster for him to be cut after this year. Even if they draft a quarterback, 30.5M won't be bad bridge money.