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PFF, Wan'Dale Robinson among league's top triple-threat WR's

Klaatu : 6/10/2024 10:06 am
Quote:
Pro Football Focus recently broke down the top triple-threat wide receivers in the NFL last season.

The analytics site took a look at three different aspects of wide receivers' stats - yards after the catch per reception, contested catch rate and separation rate - and broke down the receivers that ranked above the 60th percentile in all three facets.

One of the few players to make the list was Giants wide receiver Wan'Dale Robinson...

Giants.com - ( New Window )
interesting that 2/6 listed are zay flowers who nyg supposedly loved  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2024 10:09 am : link
and khalil shakur from buf (who is really really good and may have a huge year without diggs).
If they look at this again after the coming season, Nabers should make  
Ira : 6/10/2024 10:21 am : link
that list.
 
christian : 6/10/2024 10:52 am : link
I'm surprised to see his YAC rate so highly, he was 70th among pass catchers at below 5 per reception.

I love WDR, I hope his role stretches the field more next year. He's a first down machine on those dump offs, but I'd like to see doing more damage than 9 YPR.
RE: …  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2024 11:29 am : link
In comment 16533842 christian said:
Quote:
I'm surprised to see his YAC rate so highly, he was 70th among pass catchers at below 5 per reception.

I love WDR, I hope his role stretches the field more next year. He's a first down machine on those dump offs, but I'd like to see doing more damage than 9 YPR.


85% of his targets averaged less than 4 yards downfield but with 5+ yac.



he basically plays the 2021 cole beasley role:



(nabers will now likely slot into diggs role, hyatt/slayton in the gabe davis role)
For the first time in DJ's tenure  
4xchamps : 6/10/2024 11:32 am : link
He will have 3 legit receivers and really 4 if you count Slayton.... now let's see what he does with it. I'm excited!
Wan'dale was really freaking good last year.  
mittenedman : 6/10/2024 11:35 am : link
The offense noticeably improved when he returned. I was surprised at how good he was overall. Sound point about Wandale in the Beasley role.

The Bills offense was eletric under Daboll with the Diggs/Beasley duo, even with a bad OL. Daboll was masterful getting the slot open off Diggs.

And if you over-committ to these 2 - Hyatt's on the backside 1on1.

Nabers - Hyatt - Robinson SHOULD BE a bitch to defend.
RE: Wan'dale was really freaking good last year.  
section125 : 6/10/2024 11:39 am : link
In comment 16533878 mittenedman said:
Quote:
The offense noticeably improved when he returned. I was surprised at how good he was overall. Sound point about Wandale in the Beasley role.

The Bills offense was eletric under Daboll with the Diggs/Beasley duo, even with a bad OL. Daboll was masterful getting the slot open off Diggs.

And if you over-committ to these 2 - Hyatt's on the backside 1on1.

Nabers - Hyatt - Robinson SHOULD BE a bitch to defend.



Throw in TE Johnson....
Yeah, Johnson would be a bonus.  
mittenedman : 6/10/2024 11:45 am : link
It's nice not to really need him though. Unlike in the past where we HAD TO have all these rookies stepping up and playing above their heads.

They've been missing a #1 WR for so long, it's really killed the offense IMO. Everyone being asked to do too much. I believe Nabers is going to be that huge pressure-reliever that allows everyone to settle into roles they can thrive.

Even Slayton as the #4, all the sudden this guy's dangerous. He'll be working 1on1 and nobody will be paying attention to him. He can win.
Boy was I wrong about Wan'Dale when we drafted him.  
Marty in Albany : 6/10/2024 12:00 pm : link
I wanted a 6-4 receiver not a 5-8 receiver.
His 22-yard catch and run against Washington  
bceagle05 : 6/10/2024 12:11 pm : link
was one of my favorite plays of the season - hope we get a steady dose of this with Nabers attracting so much attention.
Wan’dale - ( New Window )
RE: For the first time in DJ's tenure  
MojoEd : 6/10/2024 12:38 pm : link
In comment 16533876 4xchamps said:
Quote:
He will have 3 legit receivers and really 4 if you count Slayton.... now let's see what he does with it. I'm excited!

Jeez, typical DJ hater with your expectations! Just give it a rest already. Still needs a stud TE and RB.
RE: His 22-yard catch and run against Washington  
Optimus-NY : 6/10/2024 12:52 pm : link
In comment 16533902 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
was one of my favorite plays of the season - hope we get a steady dose of this with Nabers attracting so much attention. Wan’dale - ( New Window )


Wan'Dale REALLY impressed me last season when he came back---this coming from someone who wasn't high on him either. I'm really excited to see what he can do this year, especially with this group of WRs playing with him.
There was at least one BBI post insisting Robinson would bust  
81_Great_Dane : 6/10/2024 1:16 pm : link
because no NFL had ever succeeeded at his height. Which might have been true, but some things are true until they're not.
RE: RE: For the first time in DJ's tenure  
4xchamps : 6/10/2024 1:56 pm : link
In comment 16533923 MojoEd said:
Quote:
In comment 16533876 4xchamps said:


Quote:


He will have 3 legit receivers and really 4 if you count Slayton.... now let's see what he does with it. I'm excited!


Jeez, typical DJ hater with your expectations! Just give it a rest already. Still needs a stud TE and RB.


LOL, I'm one of the few around here that thinks DJ has every tool needed to be a great QB.
RE: There was at least one BBI post insisting Robinson would bust  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2024 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16533945 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
because no NFL had ever succeeeded at his height. Which might have been true, but some things are true until they're not.


it wasn't true. he was almost the same size as beasley (who was actually an inch shorter and a few pounds lighter 5'7 175 at his combine).
RE: RE: Wan'dale was really freaking good last year.  
EJNNJ : 6/10/2024 2:09 pm : link
In comment 16533881 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16533878 mittenedman said:


Quote:


The offense noticeably improved when he returned. I was surprised at how good he was overall. Sound point about Wandale in the Beasley role.

The Bills offense was eletric under Daboll with the Diggs/Beasley duo, even with a bad OL. Daboll was masterful getting the slot open off Diggs.

And if you over-committ to these 2 - Hyatt's on the backside 1on1.

Nabers - Hyatt - Robinson SHOULD BE a bitch to defend.




Throw in TE Johnson....



I think TJ is going to be a serious matchup problem if puts the work in preseason, that big and that fast... Thunder complimenting 3 bolts of lightening in Nabers, WDR and Hyatt
I am hopeful for the offense with the addition of Nabers, but I keep  
Ivan15 : 6/10/2024 2:23 pm : link
Thinking back on how the offense looked with Eli throwing to Beckham. The offense just wasn’t as good as it could have been even though Beckham was unstoppable..
Those metrics are junk science.  
gridirony : 6/10/2024 3:38 pm : link
Total TDs
Total 1st downs
1st down percentage on 3rd and 4th down
Target percentage in end zone
Target percentage on 3rd and 4th downs

...for starters.

Scoring and keeping drives alive is what matters.

With 4th and 25, catching a 1 yard pass with 23 YAC is meaningless.

Lotsa fast young guys  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 6/10/2024 5:06 pm : link
Hopefully ascending together for the next several years. Good times ahead!

They will probably be at their worst when the Preseason games start. And game one vs Minny they will have the least practice time in the system and experience playing together. It'll take time but should improve. Patience and managing expectations will be a challenge.
...  
christian : 6/10/2024 6:28 pm : link
In comment 16533872 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
85% of his targets averaged less than 4 yards downfield but with 5+ yac.

he basically plays the 2021 cole beasley role:

(nabers will now likely slot into diggs role, hyatt/slayton in the gabe davis role)


To my eyes, Robinson is a better downfield threat than end-of-career Beasley. But if that is the role, so be it.

I like the Bills 2021 example as an aspirational goal. I suspect the Giants throw the ball to the running backs and TEs less, which would be great.

The 2023 Giants had 4 2s and no no. 1. The 2021 Bills had a no. 1 and 4 no. 2s.

i think more explosive beasley is exactly what they were aiming to get  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2024 8:28 pm : link
in the behind the scenes draft room video that year i remember very specifically schoen saying in his first call to wandale and then repeating multiple times after publicly something to the effect of, "we have a specific plan for him".

given how this depth chart has developed, down to hodgins/mckenzie possibly as depth guys and singletary at RB with daboll calling plays, it feels like they are aiming to play that way. bills were a 58% passing team in 2021 and that was about what nyg were back half 2022. all of the bills receivers were not just slot capable, but known as slot first producers to that point (sanders, diggs, beasley). the current nyg giants wrs are similar and all except nabers/theo johnson have now been in this system for 2-3 seasons.



knox is interesting because even he played a lot of slot that year (41%, which was 247 snaps). i tend to agree with you the nyg will feature their TEs more sparingly in defined roles (like RZ) and a lot of those slot snaps will go to nabers/hyatt. bellinger has been 24% slot both years. theo johnson was 38% at PSU so maybe if he's better than expected right away he can grow that role bigger.

i feel pretty confident health permitting nabers and wandale will both push towards 100 targets.

i think slayton, hyatt, bellinger will all be 50+. singletary probably also right around that.

That's 400 out of ~500/600 targets. the next buf WR on that list is kumerow with just 5 targets so it's also possible im way too low on nabers/wandale or a 3rd WR/2nd TE getting 50+ more targets than expected.
RE: His 22-yard catch and run against Washington  
gridirony : 6/10/2024 8:56 pm : link
In comment 16533902 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
was one of my favorite plays of the season - hope we get a steady dose of this with Nabers attracting so much attention. Wan’dale - ( New Window )


Favorite plays of the season? That's just sad.

It wasn't even a TD, but it was against the worst defense in the NFL in 2023.
 
christian : 6/10/2024 9:33 pm : link
If the specific plan is be the dump off valve, that's underwhelming to me. I remember the exchange we had on draft night, and both being impressed with his downfield tracking and catching ability. I want to see that guy more.

Who he was last year definitely has to take into account returning from a torn ACL, but he was the functional equivalent of 2022 Richie James (70/57/569).

6.7 yards per touch is closer to a RB number than a number two pass catcher. If his role is outlet guy, I'd like to see him gain more YAC.

I agree with the Beasley comp, but <700 yards on >100 targets isn't good football.
RE: RE: His 22-yard catch and run against Washington  
bceagle05 : 6/10/2024 9:53 pm : link
In comment 16534268 gridirony said:
Quote:
Favorite plays of the season? That's just sad.

It wasn't even a TD, but it was against the worst defense in the NFL in 2023.

Nice showcase of his ability to get open and juke defenders, that’s all. Lighten up.
RE: …  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2024 10:48 pm : link
In comment 16534295 christian said:
Quote:
If the specific plan is be the dump off valve, that's underwhelming to me. I remember the exchange we had on draft night, and both being impressed with his downfield tracking and catching ability. I want to see that guy more.

Who he was last year definitely has to take into account returning from a torn ACL, but he was the functional equivalent of 2022 Richie James (70/57/569).

6.7 yards per touch is closer to a RB number than a number two pass catcher. If his role is outlet guy, I'd like to see him gain more YAC.

I agree with the Beasley comp, but <700 yards on >100 targets isn't good football.


he is more talented than beasley and the game has changed to where smaller explosive players can thrive. i dont think it's a coincidence pff had stats that linked wandale and zay flowers, i think they are comparable talents and a season like zay just had is very much possible for wandale (who is actually a few months younger than flowers since he came out early).

65% of targets averaging less than 3.8 yards down field. obviously a lot of production in those 9 deep catches, but he was basically getting 1 deep shot per game and caught less than half. that seems achievable for wandale, especially if nabers dictates extra coverage his way and the OL can protect. in fact the biggest concern id have with wandale not getting that many shots downfield is that the giants have a lot of alternatives all of a sudden with hyatt, nabers, slayton.

...  
christian : 6/11/2024 10:58 am : link
I would love Robinson to develop into a threat like Flowers. That's the type of number two weapon I'd like him to be.

If you look at the shorter targets, vs the longer targets, that is the key difference between the two of them. They are pretty much the same guy with the short stuff, Flowers has that additional component. I have faith Robinson can too.

If Robinson got +30 targets next year and they were of the medium to deep variety, he can be that guy.

RE: ...  
Eric on Li : 6/11/2024 2:23 pm : link
In comment 16534495 christian said:
Quote:
I would love Robinson to develop into a threat like Flowers. That's the type of number two weapon I'd like him to be.

If you look at the shorter targets, vs the longer targets, that is the key difference between the two of them. They are pretty much the same guy with the short stuff, Flowers has that additional component. I have faith Robinson can too.

If Robinson got +30 targets next year and they were of the medium to deep variety, he can be that guy.



i think the question is less if he can produce with those targets but more if he will get them? last year they went to slayton and hyatt. they respectively each had 17/18 deep targets. now add in nabers.

zay got 23 of baltimores 68 deep targets last year. obj and bateman each got 15. lamar completed a total of 22. last year the nyg actually completed almost the same number (20x 20+):

Tyrod 11/27
Devito 7/14
Jones 2/11

wandale was 2/6 last year deep and 0/1 in 2022. at UK he was very productive deep. i just dont see any path to him getting 20+ deep targets behind slayton, hyatt, nabers unless one of those guys gets hurt or the offense goes nuclear with 80+ deep targets.

...  
christian : 6/11/2024 3:30 pm : link
Those Kentucky numbers backup the mental image I had of him from his college highlights.

I think with a player his size the initial instinct is to relegate him to a "player in space" role. But Robinson has downfield ability as well. I'd like to see him get more medium depth targets, because I agree Nabers/Hyatt/Slayton will get the deep shots.

If Robinson is going to approach 20% of the total targets, I'd like to see either the depth of the targets increase or the YAC. Because if there are 75 short targets earmarked for Robinson, I think you can make a strong argument to just get those to Nabers instead.
...  
christian : 6/11/2024 3:32 pm : link
Which is maybe a topic for another day, but a point I made earlier in the year, if there is a player who Nabers cannibalizes, I think it's Robinson.
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