Are the Giants finally nearing the opening of a winning window? The last big reset for the team was back in 2018 when we hired Gettleman. Remember when we decided to keep Eli and draft Barkley instead of taking a trade from Denver and planning for the future? We signed stopgaps like Solder, Omameh, Golden Tate, and Connor Barwin, traded JPP, and got Alec Ogletree instead of strengthening our edge. Oh, and we wasted a third-round pick on Sam Beal.
In 2018, our young core was basically just Beckham and Barkley. We had a few solid starters like Tomlinson and Shepard, but the rest were veterans on their last legs—Manning, Jenkins, Vernon, Snacks—and some busts who never developed with us but did elsewhere (Engram, Hernandez) or just plain busts (Flowers, Apple).
By 2019, Gettleman admitted his mistakes, but we still had no clear window. Our roster was still weak, though we did start getting some core players like Dexter Lawrence and Darius Slayton, with Jones maybe pulling a Phil Simms turnaround. The 2020 draft was a bright spot, bringing in guys like Thomas, Martinez, Bradberry, Logan Ryan, and McKinney when healthy. But the 2021 draft was a disaster, leaving us with just Azeez.
Heading into 2022, we finally started building young depth. Even with Neal looking like a bust, we got contributors like Kayvon, Flott, Bellinger, Wan'Dale, Belton, McFadden, and Davidson. Plus, we had in-season pickups like Hodgins, and in 2023, promising rookies like Banks, JMS, and Hyatt, and a great free agent linebacker in Okereke. We also found gems through unconventional routes like Pinnock, DeVito, and Isaiah Simmons.
Looking to 2024, with a stud pass rusher in Brian Burns and a strong draft class including Nabers and Nubin, we’re finally seeing a critical mass of depth. Compared to the mess from 2018-21, we now have core players like Thomas, Dexter, Burns, Nabers, Okereke, and Banks, with potential stars like Kayvon, Wan'Dale, Azeez, and Hyatt, plus solid starters like Runyan, JMS, Bellinger, Elumanor, Pinnock, McFadden, and Slayton.
The key positions—QB, Edge, WR, DT, Guard, CB, Safety, LB, TE, RB—are mostly solid. My main concerns are Neal at RT, Flott at RCB, and, of course, the big question mark at QB with Daniel Jones.
So, here’s the big difference between 2018 and 2024: Age, athleticism, and raw talent. Our roster’s average age is around 26, and all our starters (except our kicker) are under 27 and should be here for at least three more years.
On top of that, Dallas is showing signs of decline with aging players and big contracts coming up, and the Eagles can’t rely on their veterans much longer. Their key players are slowing down or retiring soon.
Even though our cap space seems tight, we’re in good shape. We’ve got many players signed at reasonable rates and can free up space with cuts and restructures. By this time next year, we should have CB2, RT, and DT2 figured out, leaving us with one of the youngest, most promising teams in the league, ready to break through.
part of it will depend on injuries
part of it will depend on OL
part of it will depend on Jones
will the D gel
Gun to my head, they're at least a year away.
Flott
Belton
Riley
Davidson
ARob
Hawkins
Bellinger
Tracy
Hyatt
Gray
Ezeudu
McFadden
All of these players were drafted in the 3rd round or later. IF these guys can step up and play the Giants will be in the playoffs this year. All the great teams have a few guys that they hit on late in the draft. This year will tell us a lot about how well Schoen and this front office can draft.
They're going to have to get very, very lucky sometime in the next few years.
Cowboys potentially may have to hit the restart button if they decide to move on from Dak next year, and the Eagles just got done imploding and have a head coach on the hot seat - those things certainly could factor into a Giants ascension in 2025. But it's all moot point if they don't have the right QB themselves as the starter.
I don't see the OL, RB's and overall running game in place on the offensive side to start. I do think they are close with the type of front 7 needed and while the secondary is young they have some good players.
I see some improvement this season. The breakthrough occurs with a new HC who makes the adjustments on offense and overall vision imv.
2 years into this regimes tenure, overall W-L is right where you'd expect. Trend-wise, last year's debacle ended with a 4-3 finish.
Wink's departure is a short-term setback that might cost a game or two this season, but if healthy they're likely on schedule.
2 years into this regimes tenure, overall W-L is right where you'd expect. Trend-wise, last year's debacle ended with a 4-3 finish.
Wink's departure is a short-term setback that might cost a game or two this season, but if healthy they're likely on schedule.
Similar thoughts, except the last sentence. I would say:
Wink’s departure is a boost that may add a game or two this season, if healthy they are on schedule.
I think Daboll calling plays will help too, Kafka is not a good OC, Waller is gone so he doesn't need to be forced on the field.
Now that is short term, Longer term we need a QB, OL, secondary help. 3 of the hardest things to find with this franchise lately.
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Whether it's revenue, stock price, or a team's record over time on the way to a championship, it's not a straight line.
2 years into this regimes tenure, overall W-L is right where you'd expect. Trend-wise, last year's debacle ended with a 4-3 finish.
Wink's departure is a short-term setback that might cost a game or two this season, but if healthy they're likely on schedule.
Similar thoughts, except the last sentence. I would say:
Wink’s departure is a boost that may add a game or two this season, if healthy they are on schedule.
Coaching staff was “a house divided.”
Bowen hopefully is an upgrade. My only reservation is how good he will be with the Vrabel umbilical cord now cut.
Thankfully they've entered the modern era with an offensive talent group centered around the pass catchers.
Daboll is a strong, resilient coach. I hope he's not doomed by the choice at starting quarterback.
I think Daboll calling plays will help too, Kafka is not a good OC, Waller is gone so he doesn't need to be forced on the field.
Now that is short term, Longer term we need a QB, OL, secondary help. 3 of the hardest things to find with this franchise lately.
QB yes, but easier said than done. Especially trying to find a top 3 talent or one who raises his play in the playoffs. Eli is knocked for never being All Pro or MVP but his level of play in the postseason was a gem. We aren't seeing that in today's game too much. Purdy, for example, is getting there, but has time to improve.
I don't think OL is as long as JMS works out. It would suck if Neal ends up flushing but they have a stud LT and if JMS works out, a standout C. Guard play is easier to fix.
They can breakthrough this year.....if Jones is not garbage.
If he is.....than replacing Jones....with a rookie....will take 2 years.
I must have missed that.
And to that question, look at the QB room and decide for yourself.
We do have a few good players and a few good prospects. But so does almost everyone. Nobody cares about the Raiders or Saints but they have good players.
Could everything break right? Lots of players hit high end outcomes, a year of good health with good breaks and good luck with opponents? Sure, if tons and tons of things go right, maybe we could get to a NFC CG in the next 5 years. Maybe. But on the path we're on, it's very unlikely and it would be an outlier seasons.
Flott
Belton
Riley
Davidson
ARob
Hawkins
Bellinger
Tracy
Hyatt
Gray
Ezeudu
McFadden
All of these players were drafted in the 3rd round or later. IF these guys can step up and play the Giants will be in the playoffs this year. All the great teams have a few guys that they hit on late in the draft. This year will tell us a lot about how well Schoen and this front office can draft.
All of those IFs can fill an egg carton. For about 28 teams, IF a dozen or more players on each team step it up, they all could be fighting for the playoffs.
The Giants won't make the playoffs, if other teams have many players that step it up and then those teams make the playoffs. It appears there are homer biases at work, where it is believed that only the Giants have players that can step it up.
didn't the Raiders put together a very fine roster and then eventually plugged in an aging Jim Plunkett and win a couple of Super Bowls?
Could it happen again with the Giants?
didn't the Raiders put together a very fine roster and then eventually plugged in an aging Jim Plunkett and win a couple of Super Bowls?
Could it happen again with the Giants?
Maybe, but Plunkett is 76 years old, so I wouldn't bet on it.
Flott
Belton
Riley
Davidson
ARob
Hawkins
Bellinger
Tracy
Hyatt
Gray
Ezeudu
McFadden
All of these players were drafted in the 3rd round or later. IF these guys can step up and play the Giants will be in the playoffs this year. All the great teams have a few guys that they hit on late in the draft. This year will tell us a lot about how well Schoen and this front office can draft.
I was thinking about who I would call as this year's breakout players. So no rookies, but a player who really elevates their game. Last year on defense I would say either McFadden or Pinnock could get it. McFadden was ass as a rookie, people were talking about Beavers coming back from his injury. He wasn't great but he was starter level Pinnock was a huge unknown after losing Love and he was surprisingly good for an every down safety who moved from corner just a short time before
This year I think Riley or Davidson are in a prime spot to make the jump. Also, I think Bellinger could really become a legit threat.
This year will go a long way to determining where the Giants are as far as progress. If they win 6 or fewer games - for whatever reasons - Jones will be gone and they will likely be resetting themselves at QB which means winning in 2025 will be very challenging. If the team wins 8-10 games, they may either bring Jones back, or sign a vet FA QB to try to "win now." They could also stick with Jones, which I think is playing with fire since you can't count on him starting 17 games any given year.
I think this team's window to win doesn't open until they solve the QB issue, and I don't think Jones is that issue. Until that is resolved he will hold this team back.
This year will go a long way to determining where the Giants are as far as progress. If they win 6 or fewer games - for whatever reasons - Jones will be gone and they will likely be resetting themselves at QB which means winning in 2025 will be very challenging. If the team wins 8-10 games, they may either bring Jones back, or sign a vet FA QB to try to "win now." They could also stick with Jones, which I think is playing with fire since you can't count on him starting 17 games any given year.
I think this team's window to win doesn't open until they solve the QB issue, and I don't think Jones is that issue. Until that is resolved he will hold this team back.
Agreed on all fronts….which is why I believe this will be his last year with the team
They wouldn’t have tried to get Maye if they thought Jones was the answer
didn't the Raiders put together a very fine roster and then eventually plugged in an aging Jim Plunkett and win a couple of Super Bowls?
Could it happen again with the Giants?
A long time ago Babe Ruth had more home runs than entire teams.
Could it happen again?
They could get shut out again on their choice next year and keep punting the future state at QB. Just fill in a different prospect that we miss out drafting.
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didn't the Raiders put together a very fine roster and then eventually plugged in an aging Jim Plunkett and win a couple of Super Bowls?
Could it happen again with the Giants?
A long time ago Babe Ruth had more home runs than entire teams.
Could it happen again?
QBs are much more important to success now than in those days because the changes in the rules that open up the passing game. If your offense is one dimensional, it can be stopped by most good defenses. You need at least a competent passing offense to keep defenses honest.
This year will go a long way to determining where the Giants are as far as progress. If they win 6 or fewer games - for whatever reasons - Jones will be gone and they will likely be resetting themselves at QB which means winning in 2025 will be very challenging. If the team wins 8-10 games, they may either bring Jones back, or sign a vet FA QB to try to "win now." They could also stick with Jones, which I think is playing with fire since you can't count on him starting 17 games any given year.
I think this team's window to win doesn't open until they solve the QB issue, and I don't think Jones is that issue. Until that is resolved he will hold this team back.
Resetting to what at QB, though?
This is the flaw in the Giants' plan. By neglecting QB as long as they have they've put themselves in a position where forcing something (the very thing so many said they shouldn't do in the 2022, 2023, and 2024 drafts) may be their only option.
Many mocks have them picking Carson Beck at the top of the draft, but it's unlikely they'll be bad enough to pick that high.
I expect this October, November, and December will be spent overinflating the #3-#4 type QBs in the 2025 draft, the very thing so many didn't want to do in 2024.
It's going to be down to luck, because the plan has been flawed from the moment they misevaluated the 2022 season.
No one knows what 2024 will bring. Even if there are some positive signs it all might go to shit come September. Until we see this current group of players forge a legit identity, one that can sustain winning seasons for the 2-3-4-5 years we're flying blind. We're betting against recent history. But things can change.
It's a huge year in terms of establishing an identity. We don't need to see a monster season by any means, but we need to see legit and tangible progress. We'll know it when we see it. 2022 was a start. 23 was a setback but it doesn't have to be a death knell. We have seen year 2s fail only to see year 3 excellence. We have also seen the bad year 2 be the true harbinger of death, so be prepared for anything.
I am glad they stuck with Daboll after the bad year 2. 2022 was proof that the guy can coach. Daboll didn't win that year on the backs of an unsustainable mercenary defense or big play fluky run of good luck. He won thx to getting every ounce out of a not so good offensive unit and a defense that also wasn't any good, but got stops when needed. He got every ounce out of NYG 2022. Not many coaches do a better job with that team, in my view.
We need more star power talent to take the wheel. You shouldn't see a season go so bad so fast just because 2 players get hurt like we saw last season. Good teams might suffer from those losses, but they can still survive. NYG didn't. That needs to change. Star power is what we need. More and more, in every league it is star power that rules the day.
Looking forward to how this roster shakes out in 2024. There are a lot of intriguing players here. Even if you're a blindly NYG fan boy you didn't count off the number of potential pro bowlers 5 years ago compared to now. There's simply more talent here now. Young core talent. We're due for a little luck and player development and I know it's hard to quantify today but I get the sense the player development here is on the right track.
We find out about Schoen and Daboll this year, though. Either they've been building to this moment and it's going to work, or they will turn into a pumpkin.
Only AFC team to win the SB over a 17/18 year time period and they were built like a NFC team.. All those "modern" AFC pass offenses couldn't close the deal until the Broncos with Elway. Those Bronco teams had the number one rushing offense.
Given the rookie cap, you can take a flyer on a QB you think is good, but not great - if you are willing to move on from him in 2-3 years. QBs are somewhat of a crap shoot, so taking more attempts at finding one seems to make more sense to me than less. What I think the Giants still do is the model of drafting a guy, naming him your leader, and then staying with him until he proves he can't do it. When that happens, the only way to keep your team afloat is to bring in a free agent (expensive and usually 2nd/3rd tier starter) or you have to "force" the pick when you identify the need.
I know the Giants tried to get Maye this year and couldn't. How far below Maye was McCarthy (who I didn't like) and Penix (who I did like)? If you stay with Nabers, why not try to get a mid-round developmental pick knowing your starter can rarely play a full season and you may want some competition?
I guess what I am suggesting is that there is a happy medium to addressing the QB issue between waiting for the savior and just grabbing a guy every year. Maybe sometimes the goal should be upgrading, not finding Allen/Mahomes.
"Drake Maye Soaking Up Knowledge From Eli Manning" - ( New Window )