It’s mind boggling the short fuses and low level of loyalty Giant fans have now.
Then again, maybe it’s nothing new.
Many people wanted Phil Simms gone after 1981 because he was injury prone. Many people wanted Eli gone after the 4 interception Darren Sharper game.
So, when it comes to “the base” evaluating Giant QBs?
Maybe Giant fans aren’t as football intelligent as they think they are.
I was banging my steering wheel today listening to a NY sports talk radio
guy complaining and ranting about how he can’t believe in the team while DJ is QB. He said “While he had some success 2 years ago, last year was a disaster.”
Yes, it was a disaster:
1) The offensive line was beyond abysmal early on. No running lanes meant no running game and no pass protection meant
no passing game .
2) His “go to guy” Waller was washed up - hence his retirement this year.
3) He was relentlessly pummeled and was crushed from his blindside and basically suffererd whiplash.
4) He tore his ACL AND STILL TRIED TO KEEP PLAYING.
How the hell can you ignore 2022 and not give Daniel the benefit of the doubt?
Look at how hard he’s worked and how he’s apparently ready for the start of training camp.
Check out this video.
1) He looks rock solid
2) He seems relaxed, focused and unaffected
3) He looks like a confident leader
You guys who want him out the door?
HAVE AT IT.
Me, personally?
I think this 27-year old NY Giants QB has the talent, drive, work ethic and mental toughness to have a super amazing season IF the offensive line just gives him just DECENT play upfront.
DJ is a star player who has had incredibly bad luck.
Don’t wish him away - GET BEHIND HIM. I can’t believe that I have to attempt to convince Giant fans to believe in their QB.
Because all of you who want him gone for someone else?
You’ll be the same people pushing the next QB out the door as well.
We’ve upgraded the offensive line.
We can only pray that Evan Neal becomes the player we thought he was.
Devin Singletary is a solid - still young - running back.
Malik has star potential and may make Hyatt a better player.
Burns is a great addition to the defense.
I could go on and on about the upside of this team.
But for once?
Can we all rally behind the guy quarterbacking our team and give him a shot?
If he plays badly? (which he won’t )
Then fine, we move on.
Let’s just start the season collectively as Giants fans and pull for our QB to have a breakout season.
It’s not like he’s Ryan f****** Leaf.
Leader of the team - (
New Window )
I'm legit curious. No QB has a perfect situation, but some make it work anyways. Meanwhile, Jones gets the 'Well ____ was out' or 'He didn't have ____ to throw it to.'
Jones certainly deserves a fair share.
But I disagree no QB has it perfect Brock Purdy has the greatest situation a football god ever created. Lol
But the dude was drafted sixth overall. He's making $40 million. I'm just sick of excuse after excuse with him. When you're drafted that high & making the coin he is, elevate those around you.
& I'm hoping he throws 35 TDs this fall & leads us on a deep playoff run. I want to be proven wrong on my assessment on him.
But the dude was drafted sixth overall. He's making $40 million. I'm just sick of excuse after excuse with him. When you're drafted that high & making the coin he is, elevate those around you.
& I'm hoping he throws 35 TDs this fall & leads us on a deep playoff run. I want to be proven wrong on my assessment on him.
I know it sounds cliche. Jones will be much better this year cause I believe the OL and WRs are better. Plus we won’t have to rely so much on Barkley.
Will it be good enough to continue invest in him? Probably not. But I expect a bit of a bounce back.
Figured we should just cut to the chase. Let us know.
Wonder who he likes now?
Another chucklehead.
I'm legit curious. No QB has a perfect situation, but some make it work anyways. Meanwhile, Jones gets the 'Well ____ was out' or 'He didn't have ____ to throw it to.'
He’s played well against bad defenses. While others use that to discount those games, all I can think of is ‘this is what DJ looks like when he’s on an even playing field talent-wise’.
If healthy, he’s our 27-year old starting QB. He’ll sink or swim in what amounts to a contract year. I’m personally rooting for him to show he’s worthy of that contract and going on another playoff run.
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Why is it never Daniel Jones' fault? Why is it always other factors?
I'm legit curious. No QB has a perfect situation, but some make it work anyways. Meanwhile, Jones gets the 'Well ____ was out' or 'He didn't have ____ to throw it to.'
Forget the ‘perfect situation’, for me it’s that we haven’t even seen him in a reasonable situation. His receivers have been bottom of the league players and the OL ranged from worst in the league (possibly in history) up to the low end of average. I just don’t understand how those factors can be ignored.
He’s played well against bad defenses. While others use that to discount those games, all I can think of is ‘this is what DJ looks like when he’s on an even playing field talent-wise’.
If healthy, he’s our 27-year old starting QB. He’ll sink or swim in what amounts to a contract year. I’m personally rooting for him to show he’s worthy of that contract and going on another playoff run.
The situation doesn't really matter. Every year a QB fails to emerge as a star reduces the probability that he will emerge as a star. There are very few QBs who have played as poorly as Jones, who have ever become great. So few, that Jones' chances of becoming an exception are infinitesimally small. Now also consider that the objective of an NFL franchise is to get into position to win multiple Super Bowls. That's it. And a team does that by identifying top talent with high ceilings and a reasonable probability of attaining that ceiling. They aren't required to be "fair" to a failing QB. They don't have to learn what they have in a player they drafted. They have to be decisive and make decisions that increase the odds of getting a great QB. And by sticking with a poor QB at the expense of trying other higher ceiling options, they are defying two widely accepted management principles. They are stuck on a "sunk cost", stubbornly sticking with Jones because they spent a high pick on him. And they are forgetting the "opportunity cost" of this decision, that they might have found by now a championship QB but haven't because they haven't tried due to allegiance to Jones.
Jones to me is a probability problem for the Giants, and they are playing it the wrong way. And companies who play probabilities the way the Giants have, generally fail and go out of business. But NFL teams don't go out of business. Instead they just wind up sucking for a long time. And that's the situation we have with the Giants. As you can plainly see. They are running a $5B company without logic, and at the whims of an owner who views this big business as a family heirloom.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Can you elaborate a bit more on that?
Well, Tiki Barber seems to think differently.
Jones has all the tools if healthy. He doesn’t need a great team around him to compensate for his shortcomings. He just needs an adequate surrounding cast to allow him to do what he can do which is way better than most QBs in the league.
Go watch the playoff win versus the Vikings:
THAT IS DANIEL JONES.
This is why when I bother to post that I act like one of those callers into WFAN or ESPN who call in, make a comment and then hang up.
I can’t deal with all the negativity and stupidity.
There is no QB on the planet who could function behind the 2023 line as it was opening day. He was destroyed and got hurt.
He’s not injury prone. He stayed healthy throughout 2022. He brings a skill set to the table that few NFL QBs do. He just needs f****** decent line play.
Just DECENT.
You’ll see. With the additions to the line as well as the addition of Malik, Tracy, a healthy Robinson and Gray with a year under his belt?
Daniel Jones is going to be a rock star. I’ve put my money where my posts are too.
I’ve bet on him to lead the league in TD passes and for Malik to be rookie of the year.
Yes, that’s right and if I’m wrong?
I don’t give a flying expletive.
But seeing how fast he’s recovered and how unaffected he is by “fans”?
I believe in DJ completely.
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I myself will root for the team to actually have improved this year, especially the OL and skill positions (but ESPECIALLY OL) and actually root for Daniel Jones (or any other QB behind center this season) to be successful.
Here's the thing about what you root for: no one cares.
When the Giants play against Patrick Mahomes or Joe Montana or Otto Graham you can root for those guys to suck but it won't matter; those guys are great players.
Daniel Jones is a shitty starting NFL quarterback. Of the 90 or so quarterbacks currently on NFL rosters he'd probably rank around 40-50; he's firmly backup quality and arguably the third best QB currently on the team. Root for him all you want - it doesn't make any difference. If they pulled a random guy off the street to be the Giants' QB you'd root for him too. It wouldn't make him any good.
No one cares what you're rooting for. There's what we want, and then there's what's real.
Daniel Jones is one of the best starting QBs in the NFL.
Mark my words.
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Trubisky and Darnold have changed teams three times since being drafted. Daniel Jones has made 60 starts on the same team and has a $160M contract.
Numbers don’t lie.
Yeah, numbers at their base do, in fact, lie.
Because unless you are comparing the numbers of QBs who have played with the same team in the same circumstances?
There are mitigating circumstances called “variables” that must be considered.
2022? We don’t sniff the playoffs without Jones never mind winning a road playoff game.
I’m telling you: If the FA upgrades to guard result in anywhere near dec t line play?
All of you Jones haters will not be haters anymore.
There is no real debate on Jones. 98% of this fan base has moved on from thinking he is any sort of answer for this franchise.
And why is that?
“Oh, he gets hurt.”
Ok. That’s it for me commenting on this thread.
There’s a reason Jones is still the starter. There’s a reason that Tiki Barber said “of course he can” when a caller today asked if he though Jones could be an MVP.
Jones has all of the skills. ALL OF THEM.
And this season (please God offensive line play) he will show it.
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In comment 16535252 Greg from LI said:
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
He doesn’t play like crap. Wow. Lowest INT rate in 2022 and a playoff win with no receivers and a shit line - and 700 rushing yards.
Yeah, that’s total crap.
Last year he didn’t have a damn chance. NOT A CHANCE!
Yes, let’s go with Drew Lock.
You should add:
"Only NFC QB to beat Lamar"
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In comment 16535252 Greg from LI said:
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
Its insane. It would be like if Frank Ntilkina or Kevin Knox were still starting for the Knicks in their 6th seasons and hoping they improve "with better talent around them".
We have posters here ready to throw a parade for the guy if he wins 10 games in his 6th season.
Not even close to the correct comparisons. Knox and Nilikita are complete nothing NBA players. Haven't showed anything close to what Jones has. Again we see the anti Jones crowd going to extremes.
Fair point but I don't think its as far off as you think.
How about Obi Toppin? Flashed big time in select games but overall struggled while fans were hoping for more and thought he just needed a better situation. Had a monster playoff game.
Goes to another team and turns out he's just not that good...a backup. Sound familiar?
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
Jim Jones would have loved you.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
Best comment of the day. Some folks must have boring lives.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
He wouldn’t start for one other nfl team and the giants pay him 40million a year to do it. You don’t think there’s an issue with that?
So if none of this has been his fault the past 5 years of awful offense, what do you expect this year?
He's either a good quarterback felled by comically bad circumstances. Or a bad quarterback who earned 82M dollars through plausible deniability.
Also, people who come to BBI to complain BBIers suck butt.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
You cite "most of the people who analyze football" as understanding Jones is good.
But the reality is that most of the people who analyze football think Jones isn't good. That's why he is ranked bottom 5 on so many lists. Which has upset people like to. And the reality is people on the Laz-E Boy, like you and Ralph, are the ones denying tbe widely held view that Jones is inadequate.
You see, usually the simplest explanation is the right one. And Jones' performance has been awful. His stats are shit. And the simplest and best explanation is he is a shitty quarterback, and not a great one who has run into comically bad luck for half a decade. He's Blake Bortles. He's Mitch Trubisky, He's Brock Osweiler. Most people who analyze football, already know this.
But, BBIers are being trolled for their faith in the Giants and their hope that DJ will improve.
These threads are about Jones for about 10 minutes. Then they become a shitstorm of emotion and bravado.
Yeah I wish he was making about half of that. Let’s hope for a miracle this year lol
He's either a good quarterback felled by comically bad circumstances. Or a bad quarterback who earned 82M dollars through plausible deniability.
Also, people who come to BBI to complain BBIers suck butt.
I believe it falls firmly in the middle of your two statements. He is a good but not great QB that you can win with until timing works to get that next Eli/Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/ETC., that has been surrounded by comically bad circumstances. These proclamations that he is the worst QB in the league for 10k posts everyday are just stupid.
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While the debates are heated here on BBI, it is a very small, vocal subset of the fan base that is all in on Daniel Jones.
There is no real debate on Jones. 98% of this fan base has moved on from thinking he is any sort of answer for this franchise.
And why is that?
“Oh, he gets hurt.”
Ok. That’s it for me commenting on this thread.
There’s a reason Jones is still the starter. There’s a reason that Tiki Barber said “of course he can” when a caller today asked if he though Jones could be an MVP.
Jones has all of the skills. ALL OF THEM.
And this season (please God offensive line play) he will show it.
Sure. There is no reason to believe the first 5 years of his career would, in any way, be predictive of his actual ability. Jones has only failed because those around him have failed him.
In the absence of concrete proof that he alone is terrible, it should be assumed he is really good. Only a team with no holes up and down the roster is necessary to unleash the beast within Daniel Jones.
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things are "surreal" and "I've never seen anything like it" maybe it's more simple, and you just don't get it.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
You cite "most of the people who analyze football" as understanding Jones is good.
But the reality is that most of the people who analyze football think Jones isn't good. That's why he is ranked bottom 5 on so many lists. Which has upset people like to. And the reality is people on the Laz-E Boy, like you and Ralph, are the ones denying tbe widely held view that Jones is inadequate.
You see, usually the simplest explanation is the right one. And Jones' performance has been awful. His stats are shit. And the simplest and best explanation is he is a shitty quarterback, and not a great one who has run into comically bad luck for half a decade. He's Blake Bortles. He's Mitch Trubisky, He's Brock Osweiler. Most people who analyze football, already know this.
The simplest explanation for his play is he's played Quarterback for a dumpster fire organization with a bad OL and bad receivers, and that clouds the evaluation process. Obviously Schoen and Daboll agree and have said as much, and they're in the best position to know. And now we have proof that it's not just lip service, as they passed on a few 1st round QBs.
The fact that you don't actually consider the dysfunctional circumstances shows me you didn't perform an analysis at all. You just shat yourself.
This one says he loves him.
As they say, teams love you until they cut you.
And DJ is closer to the end than most think.
I believe it falls firmly in the middle of your two statements. He is a good but not great QB that you can win with until timing works to get that next Eli/Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/ETC., that has been surrounded by comically bad circumstances. These proclamations that he is the worst QB in the league for 10k posts everyday are just stupid.
Some questions about that, assuming the Giants can and do win at some reasonable level with Jones at QB:
1) How would they acquire an elite-level QB?
2) What makes you think that the Giants would ever move off Jones if they make the playoffs like the Chiefs did with Alex Smith?
Jones is a Giants lifer to this point, and ownership loves him. If the Giants are reasonably "competitive" Jones is going to play his entire career here.
This one says he loves him.
As they say, teams love you until they cut you.
And DJ is closer to the end than most think.
At this point, it's like arguing balls and strikes.
The call has been made for 2024.
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I believe it falls firmly in the middle of your two statements. He is a good but not great QB that you can win with until timing works to get that next Eli/Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/ETC., that has been surrounded by comically bad circumstances. These proclamations that he is the worst QB in the league for 10k posts everyday are just stupid.
Some questions about that, assuming the Giants can and do win at some reasonable level with Jones at QB:
1) How would they acquire an elite-level QB?
2) What makes you think that the Giants would ever move off Jones if they make the playoffs like the Chiefs did with Alex Smith?
Jones is a Giants lifer to this point, and ownership loves him. If the Giants are reasonably "competitive" Jones is going to play his entire career here.
On question 1: Are you really asking that question? How could anyone possibly know that? A lot of it is timing and luck. How '24 plays out. Where we sit in the next draft. What that crop of QBs looks like. Do I really need to explain this? I don't even get the relevance of the question. On question 2: I don't. And it really doesn't matter. It's 100% up to the staff. The same staff that decided they want to stick with their plan they had when they signed Jones to his current contract.
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About the same guy.
This one says he loves him.
As they say, teams love you until they cut you.
And DJ is closer to the end than most think.
Amazing.
At this point, it's like arguing balls and strikes.
The call has been made for 2024.
On a video game ,,,,, cause there's no actual pithes to argue.
On question 1: Are you really asking that question? How could anyone possibly know that? A lot of it is timing and luck. How '24 plays out. Where we sit in the next draft. What that crop of QBs looks like. Do I really need to explain this? I don't even get the relevance of the question. On question 2: I don't. And it really doesn't matter. It's 100% up to the staff. The same staff that decided they want to stick with their plan they had when they signed Jones to his current contract.
Question 1 is absolutely relevant, and it's a hypothetical discussion anyway. If Jones is a QB you can win some games with, where they sit in the draft is going to put them out of range for any QB - especially given the obvious need the Giants have to be totally in love with a QB to draft him.
To end up with a Mahomes or Allen, you have to be willing to actually draft them. I doubt the Giants are or will ever be. Mahomes was #10 overall, Allen was #7. The Giants just passed on 3 QBs at #6 overall. Why wouldn't it be the same story if they are drafting later than that?
Seems to me your premise is based entirely on luck, and while you may be right surely you acknowledge that's not an actual organizational strategy.
Anyway, we'll still be having this conversation in 2028, because if Jones is even remotely competent there's no chance he's going anywhere.