Last season the Giants had one of the worst OL in the history of the game. How do they perform this season? Will there be a significant improvement, minor improvement or no improvement ?
It's about how are fans feeling at this point. It's not about being right or wrong. Minds will change with time. It's how are fans feeling about the changes going into camp
the should roll with Ezeudu at right tackle going into the season. He was thrown into the fire at left tackle last year, results were pretty terrible, but he looks like he moves better and has better balance than Neal, and after a full offseason, I'm kinda curious to see if something is there.
It's about how are fans feeling at this point. It's not about being right or wrong. Minds will change with time. It's how are fans feeling about the changes going into camp
the should roll with Ezeudu at right tackle going into the season. He was thrown into the fire at left tackle last year, results were pretty terrible, but he looks like he moves better and has better balance than Neal, and after a full offseason, I'm kinda curious to see if something is there.
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Geez, some of you guys could screw up a wet dream.
Best case scenario - Neal is ready to go and seizes the RT position. Eluemunor settles in at LG.
Worst case scenario - Neal is still not recovered or hasn’t learned a damn thing about playing RT and Eluemunor has to move over and play a position he is very familiar with. Giants need to find a LG from 3 or 4 candidates including Stinnie who has started there before and Ezeudu who the Giants wanted to play at LG when they drafted him.
Worst worst case scenario - Someone gets injured, is out for extended time, and the carousel starts all over again.
It's about how are fans feeling at this point. It's not about being right or wrong. Minds will change with time. It's how are fans feeling about the changes going into camp
I think most fans are beaten down so much by 12 years of horrible OL play that they are in the "prove it to me first" stage.
That said, on paper, the line should be better with the biggest worry being Evan Neal. The Giants may be left scrambling and shifting people around again if he is a problem.
Evan Neal has not turned out to be what we hoped. I'm angry about this because it took too long until we figured out the OL coach was a big part of the problem. I'm disappointed because he went and got private coaching because Bobby Johnson was so bad and he still wasn't any good. Now that he is injured, and that being a misdiagnosed fracture, I feel like he is being gifted the RT position without having earned it. It seems as though he is being given more leeway than he deserves, only because he is a first round draft choice.
I am angry that our 3rd rounder Ezuedo, also appears to be less than what we had hoped and he was chosen for OG, not OT. Elumenor is a RT. If we made him the RT, and waited for Neal to get over his foot problem, then we could do what is best for the OL cohesion and let Ezuedo or Neal or whoever battle it out for OG and/or earn the RT position. It just seems to me that the desire to force Neal as the RT, is affecting the entire chemistry and cohesion of the OL. I sure hope this all works out way better than where I think things may be headed.
The issue is talent development, and that's directly on coaching. The Giants have invested richly and often in the offensive line over the last 12 drafts. And they've enjoyed such limited success it's comical.
What you’re leaving out is the injuries. Neal got hurt half way through his rookie year and was compromised for the rest. Played seven games in his second season and never played again. Ezudu has been so injured it’s like he’s still a rookie.
That said, they do have a decent alternative if Neal fails and Ezeudu is now a backup. So, they are planning for the issues they can foresee.
It is not just bringing in talent. It it not just coaching. You need the right talent with the right coaching. Plenty of first round OL talents have not performed to what was expected.
They appear to value him as the swing tackle and have been trying to do this since year one. He did get some play as a LG in his rookie year, but not so much since -- primarily due to injuries which has shuffled everything and made the stability shaky at best. I feel like hjs overall skillset says Guard. Maybe Bricillo is testing something early and we see a better idea of his mindset come training camp. Neal's availability is the biggest question mark. I do feel having Eluemunor inside with Runyan is a huge plus for JMS.
The issue is talent development, and that's directly on coaching. The Giants have invested richly and often in the offensive line over the last 12 drafts. And they've enjoyed such limited success it's comical.
LOL, yeah, that's it. Forget that we have had multiple head coaches and multiple OL coaches and the same issues.
What you’re leaving out is the injuries. Neal got hurt half way through his rookie year and was compromised for the rest. Played seven games in his second season and never played again. Ezudu has been so injured it’s like he’s still a rookie.
That said, they do have a decent alternative if Neal fails and Ezeudu is now a backup. So, they are planning for the issues they can foresee.
And Neal played hurt in some of those games last year when three other starters were out.
by any means. But his feet seem like they are in cement. Can coaching change this? I doubt it. The rest of the line should be better and my opinion someone else might be playing RT.
What you’re leaving out is the injuries. Neal got hurt half way through his rookie year and was compromised for the rest. Played seven games in his second season and never played again. Ezudu has been so injured it’s like he’s still a rookie.
That said, they do have a decent alternative if Neal fails and Ezeudu is now a backup. So, they are planning for the issues they can foresee.
And Neal played hurt in some of those games last year when three other starters were out.
Is one of if not the biggest question marks for the season. RT specifically. I will say if the others hold up, one weak spot would still be an improvement. If you recall last year, one guy would give up pressure and the next play it was someone else and so on.
The issue is talent development, and that's directly on coaching. The Giants have invested richly and often in the offensive line over the last 12 drafts. And they've enjoyed such limited success it's comical.
LOL, yeah, that's it. Forget that we have had multiple head coaches and multiple OL coaches and the same issues.
And multiple GMs. I'd love to develop lineman like the Cowboys for example. They appear to have a great scouting and player development process.
If only the Giants had drafted their top rated offensive lineman a few years ago. Wait ...
They appear to value him as the swing tackle and have been trying to do this since year one. He did get some play as a LG in his rookie year, but not so much since -- primarily due to injuries which has shuffled everything and made the stability shaky at best. I feel like hjs overall skillset says Guard. Maybe Bricillo is testing something early and we see a better idea of his mindset come training camp. Neal's availability is the biggest question mark. I do feel having Eluemunor inside with Runyan is a huge plus for JMS.
Yes, I think it’s a fair assumption that Eluemunor and Runyan will solidify their the Guard position. I also think it’s fair to assume that their presents along with JMS having last year and another off-season under his belt will make the interior line much improved.
Thomas heallthy is one of the best
And yes. If Neal can’t be out starting RT it may mess everything up
minor improvement to Top 20 unit at this point, that's a big leap from 2nd worst performance ever.. Outside of Thomas not one move regarding the o-line has worked out for the Giants in 12 seasons..so I'm not holding my breath that Neal and JMS show significant improvement and the fallback plans work out. We should bring back the BBI Player of the Year award for Bricillo if he can turn this into a functioning unit.
The Giants as an organization have lost my trust in them to fix the oline situation. The GMs, various scouts, 4 head coaches, multiple oline coaches and assistants have been able to fix this.
I have no faith in the Giants to fix it. Then again I said the same thing about the Knicks for 20 years
Coach Johnson had his O line playing like they needed to be wearing TU TU's. There is a new sheriff in town with Carmen Bricillo. Like Jack Nicholson said in The Departed, "You give me a tuba and i'll get somethin out of it"...Bricillo needs to only be good to be a thousand percent better than Johnson. It all starts in the trenches, and that is all about the will to win and the will to pound the rock. Without huge improvements to the offense, BD will be back doing something else, but not in the Meadowlands.
Not sure the price tag, and huge injury risk, but would be great insurance if he comes cheap enough. There will be a lot of jobs out there (I could see Washington paying him to start), but if he is going for swing tackle money then I’d like to see it happen. I wanted Tyron Smith who the Jet got, so DB is the next best thing to me.
If he comes here he doesn’t have to start right away, give Neal the first crack. But probably only happens though if he isn’t giving a chance to be the penciled in starter for another team. Also don’t know how he feels about the right side.
But money talks. Let’s throw some bags his direction and sure this thing up.
Tyron Smith signed a 1 year , $6,500,000 contract with the New York Jets, including $4,500,000 signing bonus, $6,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $6,500,000. In 2024, Smith will earn a base salary of $2,000,000 and a signing bonus of $4,500,000, while carrying a cap hit of $2,900,000 and a dead cap value of $6,500,000 Link - ( New Window )
It'll definitely be an improvement over last season, but how much of
after the QB situation. Hope I am wrong but if not they still have some potentially outstanding groups. The WR, DL, and DB look incredible. Opponents will have their hands full
Other then that Mrs Lincoln how did you like the show
It's about how are fans feeling at this point. It's not about being right or wrong. Minds will change with time. It's how are fans feeling about the changes going into camp
hey buddy glad to see you posting ! We hope the new players and new OL coach will finally improve it
The issue is talent development, and that's directly on coaching. The Giants have invested richly and often in the offensive line over the last 12 drafts. And they've enjoyed such limited success it's comical.
The issue is talent first, development second. If you don't have the first, you cannot get the second.
Neal has played hurt. He had good feet in college so I do not think that is a problem if he is healthy. Have his injuries taken that away? I have hope for him if he can get healthy.
Concern, it seems like more of the versitile revolving door shir is going on. Runyan likes left guard - they move him to right guard. The raider guy has always played on the right side - they put him at left guard. Ezeudu was drafted to play guard - they move him to tackle. Three of the top 6 OL are playing out of position.
Its very early, and things may change, but I would really like to see them pick the starters and let them work together. My configuration would be - Thomas Runyan JMS Eluemanor Neal
The issue is talent development, and that's directly on coaching. The Giants have invested richly and often in the offensive line over the last 12 drafts. And they've enjoyed such limited success it's comical.
The issue is talent first, development second. If you don't have the first, you cannot get the second.
How do you square that with Evan Neal? The Cowboys, who have a great record of spotting talent ranked him the best lineman in the draft. Then drafted a player 17 picks later and now he's second team All Pro.
With a healthy Thomas, I think the line will at least be decent.
As much as I hated Ernie Accorsi’s “Get a left tackle and let McNally figure out the rest” approach to OL construction, Thomas does set a floor when he’s his prolific self. Obviously, a black hole at another position could wreck the whole thing; but there are enough options to fend off total meltdown.
How do you square that with Evan Neal? The Cowboys, who have a great record of spotting talent ranked him the best lineman in the draft. Then drafted a player 17 picks later and now he's second team All Pro.
Opinions are opinions and can be wrong. The Cowboys' 2023 1st round pick, Mazi Smith, turned in a 49.8 PFF grade; they're not infallible.
Actual talent can be objectively demonstrated. The Cowboys' 2022 pick, Tyler Smith, showed up at the combine and ran a stellar (for his size) 5.02 40y. That's talent. Tristan Wirfs, to cite an example, tore up his combine, every which way. That's talent.
Giants drafted the guy (Neal) who wouldn't let himself be athletically tested, either at combine or pro day, because he admitted it would hurt his draft stock.
We really know nothing about Neal's athletic talent, as such, objectively speaking.
Giants took what they hoped was a safe pick in Neal. But this is another illustration of the fact that there are no safe picks. Everything is a risk. Top ten overall OL bust pretty frequently, actually.
The issue is talent development, and that's directly on coaching. The Giants have invested richly and often in the offensive line over the last 12 drafts. And they've enjoyed such limited success it's comical.
The issue is talent first, development second. If you don't have the first, you cannot get the second.
How do you square that with Evan Neal? The Cowboys, who have a great record of spotting talent ranked him the best lineman in the draft. Then drafted a player 17 picks later and now he's second team All Pro.
If the Cowboys get another all pro tackle from this draft, gonna be an extremely bitter pill to swallow.
First off there is going to be injuries- there always is. And imo there is no one you can peg and identify as "reliable" as replacements.
The 2 new Guards in FA are average to pretty good at best. But just because our OL was so bad before - they get overrated because in comparison vs last year they appear to be "great." They aren't.
And the Center is a question mark. He was regarded the worst OL according to PFF when he came back from injury. OFC he won't be the worst but he might not be good.
We could try to make all the excuses we want but injuries with the OL are part of the game- last year and this year I question the backups and the talent. To further this I still question Neal and JMS a great deal and to further this how good are Eleumenor and Runyan? They aren't terrible more than likely. And if 40% of your starting OL is not good and your backups are not good -- then more than likley you are not going to be more than just "average."
With all this I have a view of an "average" OL. Sure- it can be better but can also be worse—but it won’t be as bad.
We really know nothing about Neal's athletic talent, as such, objectively speaking.
Giants took what they hoped was a safe pick in Neal. But this is another illustration of the fact that there are no safe picks. Everything is a risk. Top ten overall OL bust pretty frequently, actually.
I'm not sure who the we in that statement is. But I suspect both the Giants and Cowboys had other means by which to grade Neal's athletic talent.
I'm not implying the Cowboys nor any other organization is perfect, nor that their methods are unsalable.
My point is we have two data points that show two organizations felt Neal was a top 7 pick. One of those organizations has a high batting average when drafting offensive lineman, one of them does not.
I'd wager the Cowboys have near if not the best record in drafting offensive lineman over the last 10 years. So if he registered as the best offensive lineman of the class, I take that as an implicit vote on his talent.
disclaimer: if Stinnie is clearlybetter as a LG, put him there and move Runyon to RG
Wrapping thoughts:
With this lineup, we don’t have to concern ourselves with Neal’s timetable to get healthy nor his performance. See how he looks during preseason and if he looks beastly, then you can always insert him whenever you think his presence would be an asset to the line.
So, how do you feel?
Geez, some of you guys could screw up a wet dream.
Best case scenario - Neal is ready to go and seizes the RT position. Eluemunor settles in at LG.
Worst case scenario - Neal is still not recovered or hasn’t learned a damn thing about playing RT and Eluemunor has to move over and play a position he is very familiar with. Giants need to find a LG from 3 or 4 candidates including Stinnie who has started there before and Ezeudu who the Giants wanted to play at LG when they drafted him.
Worst worst case scenario - Someone gets injured, is out for extended time, and the carousel starts all over again.
I think most fans are beaten down so much by 12 years of horrible OL play that they are in the "prove it to me first" stage.
That said, on paper, the line should be better with the biggest worry being Evan Neal. The Giants may be left scrambling and shifting people around again if he is a problem.
I am angry that our 3rd rounder Ezuedo, also appears to be less than what we had hoped and he was chosen for OG, not OT. Elumenor is a RT. If we made him the RT, and waited for Neal to get over his foot problem, then we could do what is best for the OL cohesion and let Ezuedo or Neal or whoever battle it out for OG and/or earn the RT position. It just seems to me that the desire to force Neal as the RT, is affecting the entire chemistry and cohesion of the OL. I sure hope this all works out way better than where I think things may be headed.
That said, they do have a decent alternative if Neal fails and Ezeudu is now a backup. So, they are planning for the issues they can foresee.
Hopefully this is the year it turns around....
That said, they do have a decent alternative if Neal fails and Ezeudu is now a backup. So, they are planning for the issues they can foresee.
And Neal played hurt in some of those games last year when three other starters were out.
Quote:
What you’re leaving out is the injuries. Neal got hurt half way through his rookie year and was compromised for the rest. Played seven games in his second season and never played again. Ezudu has been so injured it’s like he’s still a rookie.
That said, they do have a decent alternative if Neal fails and Ezeudu is now a backup. So, they are planning for the issues they can foresee.
And Neal played hurt in some of those games last year when three other starters were out.
And wouldn't you know it, Neal is hurt again.
Try Neal at OG. If it worked out we'd have Eluemunor as the swing OT/OG and Ezeudu as emergency. Hopefully never needed.
That much investment in the OL might signal a slower progress short-term but IMO it woulld have paid dividends long-term.
But from Giants’ history: If the QB has time to throw he can make Mark Ingram, David Tyree and Mario Manningham look like stars.
But from Giants’ history: If the QB has time to throw he can make Mark Ingram, David Tyree and Mario Manningham look like stars.
The Giants picked a collegiate LT with the 7th overall pick in the draft and moved him to RT just a couple of years ago.
LOL, yeah, that's it. Forget that we have had multiple head coaches and multiple OL coaches and the same issues.
And multiple GMs. I'd love to develop lineman like the Cowboys for example. They appear to have a great scouting and player development process.
If only the Giants had drafted their top rated offensive lineman a few years ago. Wait ...
Yes, I think it’s a fair assumption that Eluemunor and Runyan will solidify their the Guard position. I also think it’s fair to assume that their presents along with JMS having last year and another off-season under his belt will make the interior line much improved.
Thomas heallthy is one of the best
And yes. If Neal can’t be out starting RT it may mess everything up
The new O line coach is what gives me hope, given his track record
Eric that's really a snarky thing to say.... That said could you get me the power ball numbers for next week?
I have no faith in the Giants to fix it. Then again I said the same thing about the Knicks for 20 years
If he comes here he doesn’t have to start right away, give Neal the first crack. But probably only happens though if he isn’t giving a chance to be the penciled in starter for another team. Also don’t know how he feels about the right side.
But money talks. Let’s throw some bags his direction and sure this thing up.
I’d offer same concert as Smith with the Jets.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Other then that Mrs Lincoln how did you like the show
The issue is talent first, development second. If you don't have the first, you cannot get the second.
Concern, it seems like more of the versitile revolving door shir is going on. Runyan likes left guard - they move him to right guard. The raider guy has always played on the right side - they put him at left guard. Ezeudu was drafted to play guard - they move him to tackle. Three of the top 6 OL are playing out of position.
Its very early, and things may change, but I would really like to see them pick the starters and let them work together. My configuration would be - Thomas Runyan JMS Eluemanor Neal
The issue is talent first, development second. If you don't have the first, you cannot get the second.
How do you square that with Evan Neal? The Cowboys, who have a great record of spotting talent ranked him the best lineman in the draft. Then drafted a player 17 picks later and now he's second team All Pro.
How do you square that with Evan Neal? The Cowboys, who have a great record of spotting talent ranked him the best lineman in the draft. Then drafted a player 17 picks later and now he's second team All Pro.
Opinions are opinions and can be wrong. The Cowboys' 2023 1st round pick, Mazi Smith, turned in a 49.8 PFF grade; they're not infallible.
Actual talent can be objectively demonstrated. The Cowboys' 2022 pick, Tyler Smith, showed up at the combine and ran a stellar (for his size) 5.02 40y. That's talent. Tristan Wirfs, to cite an example, tore up his combine, every which way. That's talent.
Giants drafted the guy (Neal) who wouldn't let himself be athletically tested, either at combine or pro day, because he admitted it would hurt his draft stock.
We really know nothing about Neal's athletic talent, as such, objectively speaking.
Giants took what they hoped was a safe pick in Neal. But this is another illustration of the fact that there are no safe picks. Everything is a risk. Top ten overall OL bust pretty frequently, actually.
But from Giants’ history: If the QB has time to throw he can make Mark Ingram, David Tyree and Mario Manningham look like stars.
Manningham was a star, just had his career cutoff because of injuries. You absolutely cannot compare him to David Tyree.
Quote:
The issue is talent development, and that's directly on coaching. The Giants have invested richly and often in the offensive line over the last 12 drafts. And they've enjoyed such limited success it's comical.
The issue is talent first, development second. If you don't have the first, you cannot get the second.
How do you square that with Evan Neal? The Cowboys, who have a great record of spotting talent ranked him the best lineman in the draft. Then drafted a player 17 picks later and now he's second team All Pro.
If the Cowboys get another all pro tackle from this draft, gonna be an extremely bitter pill to swallow.
The 2 new Guards in FA are average to pretty good at best. But just because our OL was so bad before - they get overrated because in comparison vs last year they appear to be "great." They aren't.
And the Center is a question mark. He was regarded the worst OL according to PFF when he came back from injury. OFC he won't be the worst but he might not be good.
We could try to make all the excuses we want but injuries with the OL are part of the game- last year and this year I question the backups and the talent. To further this I still question Neal and JMS a great deal and to further this how good are Eleumenor and Runyan? They aren't terrible more than likely. And if 40% of your starting OL is not good and your backups are not good -- then more than likley you are not going to be more than just "average."
With all this I have a view of an "average" OL. Sure- it can be better but can also be worse—but it won’t be as bad.
Giants took what they hoped was a safe pick in Neal. But this is another illustration of the fact that there are no safe picks. Everything is a risk. Top ten overall OL bust pretty frequently, actually.
I'm not sure who the we in that statement is. But I suspect both the Giants and Cowboys had other means by which to grade Neal's athletic talent.
I'm not implying the Cowboys nor any other organization is perfect, nor that their methods are unsalable.
My point is we have two data points that show two organizations felt Neal was a top 7 pick. One of those organizations has a high batting average when drafting offensive lineman, one of them does not.
I'd wager the Cowboys have near if not the best record in drafting offensive lineman over the last 10 years. So if he registered as the best offensive lineman of the class, I take that as an implicit vote on his talent.
Neal- swing tackle. Ezeudu back up swing tackle
disclaimer: if Stinnie is clearlybetter as a LG, put him there and move Runyon to RG
Wrapping thoughts:
With this lineup, we don’t have to concern ourselves with Neal’s timetable to get healthy nor his performance. See how he looks during preseason and if he looks beastly, then you can always insert him whenever you think his presence would be an asset to the line.