As a fan base, we have no choice but to root for him and hope he can be more of the QB we saw in the Minny playoff game and saw flashes of in his big games in his rookie year.
But between the Giants' in-depth look at all the top QBs in this draft and them bringing in Lock with the idea he can win the job, Jones is out of rope. He needs to play well or next year, he will be gone.
I don’t disagree and would’ve been in the ‘let him walk’ camp if you told me he’d get a legit $40/yr contract after ‘22. But that’s besides the point. He’s our QB this year and we currently don’t know how he can play in a normal situation.
If the OL isn’t a mess and DJ’s injury clause doesn’t take hold then we’ll have our answer and the ability to move on.
JS - your post is reasonable. I think it is important to remember that some fans believe the answer has already revealed itself and that is fine. Some fans may be able to see things a little sooner than others regarding certain player positions. While others may want to see more before deciding.
I feel like a disconnect happens when fans that either believe the answer has been revealed or fans who do not believe the answer has been revealed insist on others seeing it their way.
I don’t disagree and would’ve been in the ‘let him walk’ camp if you told me he’d get a legit $40/yr contract after ‘22. But that’s besides the point. He’s our QB this year and we currently don’t know how he can play in a normal situation.
If the OL isn’t a mess and DJ’s injury clause doesn’t take hold then we’ll have our answer and the ability to move on.
I am not a DJ hater or anything, at this point I essentially have no strong feelings. Your point about the injury clause is the important part. I agree he's the QB this year if healthy, but not next year - so combine that with his injury clause and inability to stay healthy and I think they will just play it safe if he gets dinged. I believe his injury clause only kicks in for an IR injury or a failed physical when he's cut. So say he has more ankle or neck problems, I think they just keep him inactive.
I think JS was talking to the poster 'Blue The Dog'.
Were Giants “rooting” against the OL last few years? Or did they just know it wasnt good enough and wanted it improved?
Were people rooting against Tyrod Taylor last year? The common saying last year was “we know what he is”?
Tyrod Taylor has started LESS games than Daniel Jones.
No, people are “rooting” against Daniel Jones. We just know what he is at this point and he isnt good enough and we want to improve the most important position in the sport.
Of the 4 options, the first two are FAR more likely.
Without successfully drafting Maye, management has chosen to let the situation play out this year and the reality is its probably the right choice.
If Jones can't get it done with THIS receiving group AND a (probably), passable line, then they WILL move on and either draft a guy or trade for a QB next year.
As the roster improves, a successor will have a greater chance at success.
With a similar amount of games and passes attempts on our team, Jones had worst record, least TDs, least passing yards and most INTs.
Why did you leave out the dissimilar level of competition and the dissimilar makeup of the offensive line?
You think the level of competition had anything to do with DJ 1 TD in 6 games? And more interceptions than TDs? Is that what we are to expect from DJ when facing decent competition? The dude was terrible last year.
“Most NFL teams have similar talent levels. What separates them is usually quarterback play.”
While I think that this year this may finally be true for the Giants it certainly has not been true in the previous years of Jones’ career. The Giants’ talent level has been nothing short of atrocious. Hope this works out because it would be best for the team. Not a clue if it will.
One of the most difficult things about validating this statement (or the inverse), is that the interdependent variables tend not to stay static enough to satisfy many fans' idea of a control group, so confirmation bias has a very strong influence, IMO.
For example, a year ago, many Texans fans could rightfully say the same thing about their roster. And then they added C.J. Stroud, and suddenly the surrounding talent looked a lot better. That's not to say that Stroud was their only addition, or even the only noteworthy addition. But much of the foundation was already in place before Stroud arrived, it was just obscured by mediocre QB play.
What may look like a solid supporting cast might be a bad team being buoyed by a great QB (like Peyton Manning's final year with the Colts, followed by them becoming the worst team in football without Peyton). What may look like a terrible supporting cast might be a halfway decent team being held back by a bad QB (like the Texans before Stroud). Or what looks like a bad roster actually is a bad roster, and the QB is indeed being dragged down by the rest of his roster. Or the apparently bad roster is indeed a bad roster, but the QB is also a mediocre QB.
The point is, simply listing the likely impediments to success does not guarantee that an incapable person can definitely achieve success simply by removing those impediments. The QB himself may be one of the impediments, independent of the roster that surrounds him.
The point is, simply listing the likely impediments to success does not guarantee that an incapable person can definitely achieve success simply by removing those impediments. The QB himself may be one of the impediments, independent of the roster that surrounds him.
There is no doubt by any standard you want to choose that the Giants offense talent was atrocious. Will the improvement there guarantee success, as I said, I don’t have a clue. That doesn’t change the dreck we’ve put out on the field.
The point is, simply listing the likely impediments to success does not guarantee that an incapable person can definitely achieve success simply by removing those impediments. The QB himself may be one of the impediments, independent of the roster that surrounds him.
There is no doubt by any standard you want to choose that the Giants offense talent was atrocious. Will the improvement there guarantee success, as I said, I don’t have a clue. That doesn’t change the dreck we’ve put out on the field.
I agree the offense was atrocious. I disagree that either you or I can determine whether that was due to talent level across the board, or limited to a few key pieces, or whether it might be related to execution rather than talent. Hence my note above about control groups and confirmation bias.
I think the coaches aren't announcing a QB competition in order to keep the media and fans quiet. If they announced the competition then there will be factions on each side of Jones and Lock and whoever is playing there will be detractors every time there is a bad pass or interception.
Announcing that Jones is the starter quiets all that talk. If Lock somehow becomes the starter week 1, it will be because Jones "hasn't fully recovered."
Or, maybe not.
THERE IS NO QB COMTITION !! DJ is the starting QB, barring injury. Those in charge think he has talent and gives the team best chance to win. People keep refusing to believe what GM and coach says. Of course there are those that will say, they said Wink was coming back, so they lie. Totally different situation. Management has consistently shown their support for DJ.
I think the coaches aren't announcing a QB competition in order to keep the media and fans quiet. If they announced the competition then there will be factions on each side of Jones and Lock and whoever is playing there will be detractors every time there is a bad pass or interception.
Announcing that Jones is the starter quiets all that talk. If Lock somehow becomes the starter week 1, it will be because Jones "hasn't fully recovered."
Or, maybe not.
THERE IS NO QB COMTITION !! DJ is the starting QB, barring injury. Those in charge think he has talent and gives the team best chance to win. People keep refusing to believe what GM and coach says. Of course there are those that will say, they said Wink was coming back, so they lie. Totally different situation. Management has consistently shown their support for DJ.
for how often somebody complains about D Jones in every other positional breakdown?
I know it's a forlorn hope but I'm praying that Eric doing QB first will concentrate the carping here when we discuss the rest of the team.
As a fan base, we have no choice but to root for him and hope he can be more of the QB we saw in the Minny playoff game and saw flashes of in his big games in his rookie year.
But between the Giants' in-depth look at all the top QBs in this draft and them bringing in Lock with the idea he can win the job, Jones is out of rope. He needs to play well or next year, he will be gone.
If the OL isn’t a mess and DJ’s injury clause doesn’t take hold then we’ll have our answer and the ability to move on.
JS - your post is reasonable. I think it is important to remember that some fans believe the answer has already revealed itself and that is fine. Some fans may be able to see things a little sooner than others regarding certain player positions. While others may want to see more before deciding.
I feel like a disconnect happens when fans that either believe the answer has been revealed or fans who do not believe the answer has been revealed insist on others seeing it their way.
Quote:
I don’t disagree and would’ve been in the ‘let him walk’ camp if you told me he’d get a legit $40/yr contract after ‘22. But that’s besides the point. He’s our QB this year and we currently don’t know how he can play in a normal situation.
If the OL isn’t a mess and DJ’s injury clause doesn’t take hold then we’ll have our answer and the ability to move on.
I am not a DJ hater or anything, at this point I essentially have no strong feelings. Your point about the injury clause is the important part. I agree he's the QB this year if healthy, but not next year - so combine that with his injury clause and inability to stay healthy and I think they will just play it safe if he gets dinged. I believe his injury clause only kicks in for an IR injury or a failed physical when he's cut. So say he has more ankle or neck problems, I think they just keep him inactive.
I think JS was talking to the poster 'Blue The Dog'.
And is it really “rooting” ?
Were Giants “rooting” against the OL last few years? Or did they just know it wasnt good enough and wanted it improved?
Were people rooting against Tyrod Taylor last year? The common saying last year was “we know what he is”?
Tyrod Taylor has started LESS games than Daniel Jones.
No, people are “rooting” against Daniel Jones. We just know what he is at this point and he isnt good enough and we want to improve the most important position in the sport.
Without successfully drafting Maye, management has chosen to let the situation play out this year and the reality is its probably the right choice.
If Jones can't get it done with THIS receiving group AND a (probably), passable line, then they WILL move on and either draft a guy or trade for a QB next year.
As the roster improves, a successor will have a greater chance at success.
Quote:
ylor
2-3
180 passes
64.4%
1343 yds
5 TDs
3 INTs
DeVito
3-3
179 passes
64.0%
1101 yds
8 TDs
3 INts
Jones
1-5
160 passes
67.5%
909 yds
2 INts
With a similar amount of games and passes attempts on our team, Jones had worst record, least TDs, least passing yards and most INTs.
Why did you leave out the dissimilar level of competition and the dissimilar makeup of the offensive line?
You think the level of competition had anything to do with DJ 1 TD in 6 games? And more interceptions than TDs? Is that what we are to expect from DJ when facing decent competition? The dude was terrible last year.
I'm rooting for Jones to have a great year. But if he doesn't hit the ground running I would have him on a short leash.
While I think that this year this may finally be true for the Giants it certainly has not been true in the previous years of Jones’ career. The Giants’ talent level has been nothing short of atrocious. Hope this works out because it would be best for the team. Not a clue if it will.
One of the most difficult things about validating this statement (or the inverse), is that the interdependent variables tend not to stay static enough to satisfy many fans' idea of a control group, so confirmation bias has a very strong influence, IMO.
For example, a year ago, many Texans fans could rightfully say the same thing about their roster. And then they added C.J. Stroud, and suddenly the surrounding talent looked a lot better. That's not to say that Stroud was their only addition, or even the only noteworthy addition. But much of the foundation was already in place before Stroud arrived, it was just obscured by mediocre QB play.
What may look like a solid supporting cast might be a bad team being buoyed by a great QB (like Peyton Manning's final year with the Colts, followed by them becoming the worst team in football without Peyton). What may look like a terrible supporting cast might be a halfway decent team being held back by a bad QB (like the Texans before Stroud). Or what looks like a bad roster actually is a bad roster, and the QB is indeed being dragged down by the rest of his roster. Or the apparently bad roster is indeed a bad roster, but the QB is also a mediocre QB.
The point is, simply listing the likely impediments to success does not guarantee that an incapable person can definitely achieve success simply by removing those impediments. The QB himself may be one of the impediments, independent of the roster that surrounds him.
The point is, simply listing the likely impediments to success does not guarantee that an incapable person can definitely achieve success simply by removing those impediments. The QB himself may be one of the impediments, independent of the roster that surrounds him.
There is no doubt by any standard you want to choose that the Giants offense talent was atrocious. Will the improvement there guarantee success, as I said, I don’t have a clue. That doesn’t change the dreck we’ve put out on the field.
Quote:
The point is, simply listing the likely impediments to success does not guarantee that an incapable person can definitely achieve success simply by removing those impediments. The QB himself may be one of the impediments, independent of the roster that surrounds him.
There is no doubt by any standard you want to choose that the Giants offense talent was atrocious. Will the improvement there guarantee success, as I said, I don’t have a clue. That doesn’t change the dreck we’ve put out on the field.
I agree the offense was atrocious. I disagree that either you or I can determine whether that was due to talent level across the board, or limited to a few key pieces, or whether it might be related to execution rather than talent. Hence my note above about control groups and confirmation bias.
Announcing that Jones is the starter quiets all that talk. If Lock somehow becomes the starter week 1, it will be because Jones "hasn't fully recovered."
Or, maybe not.
THERE IS NO QB COMTITION !! DJ is the starting QB, barring injury. Those in charge think he has talent and gives the team best chance to win. People keep refusing to believe what GM and coach says. Of course there are those that will say, they said Wink was coming back, so they lie. Totally different situation. Management has consistently shown their support for DJ.
Quote:
I think the coaches aren't announcing a QB competition in order to keep the media and fans quiet. If they announced the competition then there will be factions on each side of Jones and Lock and whoever is playing there will be detractors every time there is a bad pass or interception.
Announcing that Jones is the starter quiets all that talk. If Lock somehow becomes the starter week 1, it will be because Jones "hasn't fully recovered."
Or, maybe not.
THERE IS NO QB COMTITION !! DJ is the starting QB, barring injury. Those in charge think he has talent and gives the team best chance to win. People keep refusing to believe what GM and coach says. Of course there are those that will say, they said Wink was coming back, so they lie. Totally different situation. Management has consistently shown their support for DJ.
COMTITION !!
- P.
I know it's a forlorn hope but I'm praying that Eric doing QB first will concentrate the carping here when we discuss the rest of the team.