Just watched his 'A Football Life' for the first time. I know his last couple of seasons here were rough ones, but the man was one helluva coach for us & is a HOFer IMO.
Nice to hear Fred Taylor & Strahan-who both detested TC at first-come to really appreciate him. Also, his love of Judy/hers of him made me smile.
A very putrid team.
That has to be factored in, along with the SB rings.
He had a borderline HOF QB, and the team got worse, to the point of being non competitive.
Usually, pair a HOF coach with a HOF QB things go much better.
I'm prolly one of them.
A very putrid team.
That has to be factored in, along with the SB rings.
He had a borderline HOF QB, and the team got worse, to the point of being non competitive.
Usually, pair a HOF coach with a HOF QB things go much better.
They won 2 super bowls.
When he left the Giants and was considered for the Eagles HC position, if hired thought he would have won there too.
obviously a level below reid/belichick.
"Mission accomplished"
It was the best ....
It was sad to see that his career came to a fizzle at the end however I think he took the heat for some of Jerry Reese's really bad rosters.
It was sad to see that his career came to a fizzle at the end however I think he took the heat for some of Jerry Reese's really bad rosters.
I posted above (lol which I also said no one reads), there are 3 people who have won 2 SB's as a head coach and are not yet in the HOF (13 total eligible):
Coughlin
Shanahan
Seifert
I think Seifert has a better resume than Coughlin, though you could argue about how much of that resume was self-made vs Walsh, but I think Seifert has earned it. I think Coughlin is close to Shanahan and maybe gets in over him for the reasons mentioned (an expansion team to the conference championship in two or however many years - also which I said no one reads, lol)
two coaches with at least 2 rings are not yet eligible - Belichick and Reid.
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I'm not sure how many coaches have won 2 Super Bowls and not made it (if any) but the fact that he really built the Jacksonville franchise up and into a fast contender really needs to be taken into account.
It was sad to see that his career came to a fizzle at the end however I think he took the heat for some of Jerry Reese's really bad rosters.
I posted above (lol which I also said no one reads), there are 3 people who have won 2 SB's as a head coach and are not yet in the HOF (13 total eligible):
Coughlin
Shanahan
Seifert
I think Seifert has a better resume than Coughlin, though you could argue about how much of that resume was self-made vs Walsh, but I think Seifert has earned it. I think Coughlin is close to Shanahan and maybe gets in over him for the reasons mentioned (an expansion team to the conference championship in two or however many years - also which I said no one reads, lol)
two coaches with at least 2 rings are not yet eligible - Belichick and Reid.
I'm not sure about Seifert, but I think Shanahan eventually gets in. In addition to the Super Bowl wins, he has a good "coaching tree" underneath him and also made a huge impact on how the NFL views and utilizes the running game.
A very putrid team.
That has to be factored in, along with the SB rings.
He had a borderline HOF QB, and the team got worse, to the point of being non competitive.
Usually, pair a HOF coach with a HOF QB things go much better.
This doesn’t make any sense.
And you think Coughlin deserves to get in over him?
Tough sell IMO even with 2 HOF QBs.
but then again, Seifert has been eligible for a long time and is not in, so there's that.
I think he gets in eventually, but it could take a long while, a la Tom Flores.
I think he gets in eventually, but it could take a long while, a la Tom Flores.
The totality of his career is definitely in play. Yes, his job as HC with the Giants will be the largest part, without question. But building an expansion team to playoff quality in two season is definitely in play.
He started with an expansion team, that alone explains a portion of the losing seasons. Don’t think his win % will mean much because of it, and taking the Jags as far as he did, and that quickly, offsets it as well.
I'd vote for both personally.
I get the sense some of the NYG fans who love the Parcells years like to prop down Coughlin. Strange to me. They are both great; they were both great eras of the franchise.
It's not like Parcells wasn't without criticism. Quits in May before the 1991 season after no one is available. Coaches the fucking Cowboys. I love Parcells, but there is no reason to prop up Parcells vs Coughlin. They are both great.
Not hazy. Just because one isn't a first ballot HOfer doesn't mean he shouldn't get in nor does it mean we should be up in arms about TC not being a first ballot.
He still ranks as the 13th-winningest coach in NFL history with an overall record of 182-157 (. 537), including two Super Bowl championships and a 12-7 postseason mark.
It aint hazy. He will get in.
PS He got a ring as an assistant (WR coach) in 1990. Hired in 88 I believe.
TC was a team and culture builder. And he got more out of the 2015 roster than any mere mortal could ever dream of And was fired for it. He had 3 bad seasons in NY. He had 2 or so in Jacksonville.
Bill Parcells had a few bad seasons too. Not comparing the two but for some reason linear losing into winning is more accepted than the random bad season out of Coughlin. Coughlin did have the bad ending in NY but again, check the defensive rosters from those teams. They weren't bad they were downright awful. 2015 Giants scored 427 pts on the backs of 2 players, 2 or so decent ones and 7 bad players. And a D with 10 bad ones and one armed JPP for half the season.
LAndry lost at the end too.
I know this part is impossible to prove or quantify but there was a reason why so many active and great HCs used to say that no one was harder to prepare for than Coughlin.
Belichick is the best ever and he can rattle off at least 3-4 bad seasons. A couple with Cleveland and 2-3 more with the Pats. Granted he coached for 700 years.
Is Dick Vermeil in the HOF? He lost some years.
I'd vote for both personally.
agree with this.
I think Flores is a really good comp for Coughlin. As I said earlier, my guess is Coughlin has to wait a while for the call, which is what happened with Flores.
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and Flores are in make it likely TC eventually gets in. But he's clearly on the lower end of HOF coaches in terms of record.
I think Flores is a really good comp for Coughlin. As I said earlier, my guess is Coughlin has to wait a while for the call, which is what happened with Flores.
I suspect the second SB will carry enough weight with the voters to override what would be among the worst overall records of any HOF coach. Look at guy like Holmgren who's record looks a lot better than TC but he only has the one SB.
This is such a myth. Plax was having the worst season of his career even before he shot himself.
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a 3rd SB if Plax didn't shoot himself.
This is such a myth. Plax was having the worst season of his career even before he shot himself.
Do you think the Giants had a good shot of winning the super bowl with a relatively healthy Burress?
The Eagles were delighted when Burress was no longer on the field for the Giants.
Burress missed all but a series against Arizona, and the Giants ran 27 times for 87 yards; he missed all of the Washington game, and the Giants ran 35 times for 108 yards. On Sunday against Philadelphia, the Giants rushed 24 times for 88 yards.
Asked about the impact of Burress’s absence, Eagles safety Sean Considine said that it was probably more apparent to Jim Johnson, the Eagles’ defensive coordinator.
“It probably changes Coach Johnson’s mental approach to the game,” Considine said. “I’m sure Jim has more confidence calling a zero-coverage blitz knowing that they don’t have a 6-foot-5 go-to guy like Plaxico Burress out there. Obviously, we’d rather have him not out there.”
Every team left on the Giants’ schedule will play harder, tighter, more-suffocating run and pass defense, confident that there is nothing extraordinary to fear from Giants receivers.
No Burress - ( New Window )
I think he gets in on the Weeb Ewbank platform. Weeb's career winning percentage was .507. The lowest of any HOF coach. But in 1958 and 1969 he won 2 of the most famous games in football history. That's why he's in. Joe Namath is in because he won Super Bowl III. The NFL HOF has always rewarded Super Bowl winners.
I think that's why Coughlin and Eli will both get in too. Best case scenario would be at the same time.
A very putrid team.
That has to be factored in, along with the SB rings.
He had a borderline HOF QB, and the team got worse, to the point of being non competitive.
Usually, pair a HOF coach with a HOF QB things go much better.
It's kind of cool to realize in NFL history only 35 different coaches have won a Lombardi, and just 13 people have done it multiple times. I have to think as just 1 of 13 to do something it gives you some serious ammo.
Coughlin, Seifert and Shanahan are the only coaches eligible for HOF selection that have won twice (at least) but are not in the HOF.
I initially felt like Seifert road Walsh's coat tails, but once I looked in more detail, once Walsh retired, Seifert led SF to two SB wins and 5 championship games in 6 years. I can't put all that on Walsh.
Coughlin's candidacy is similar in some regards to Eli's eerily enough, only 13 QB's have won multiple SB's, just like 13 coaches have. But only Jim Plunkett, who is eligible, is not in the HOF. Players like Mahomes obviously not eligible. Just like Reid isn't as a coach.
Seifert isn't getting in. He inherited a multi-SB champ team from Bill Walsh, but when left to his own devices, was utterly horrible in CAR.
TC should get in, but sportswriters are convinced that the Giants won those 2 SB's by luck, so I'm not banking on it.
& George's tenure in Charlotte-as Section331 pointed out-was hideous.
That last stat right there, is the one that puts him over the top in my view. Beats the best coach ever twice in the Super Bowl, AND twice in one season. Amazing.
It's kind of cool to realize in NFL history only 35 different coaches have won a Lombardi, and just 13 people have done it multiple times. I have to think as just 1 of 13 to do something it gives you some serious ammo.
Coughlin, Seifert and Shanahan are the only coaches eligible for HOF selection that have won twice (at least) but are not in the HOF.
I initially felt like Seifert road Walsh's coat tails, but once I looked in more detail, once Walsh retired, Seifert led SF to two SB wins and 5 championship games in 6 years. I can't put all that on Walsh.
Coughlin's candidacy is similar in some regards to Eli's eerily enough, only 13 QB's have won multiple SB's, just like 13 coaches have. But only Jim Plunkett, who is eligible, is not in the HOF. Players like Mahomes obviously not eligible. Just like Reid isn't as a coach.
Good stuff on Seifert, much overlooked.
I would add that a lot of Walsh's defenses (and particularly his secondaries) were very good because of him. He was one of the first coaches to rotate pass rushers, and he was working on defensive alignments that Pete Carroll (after one year as his DC) would eventually take and refine on his own.
& George's tenure in Charlotte-as Section331 pointed out-was hideous.
Again, the criticism for Seifert is often a bit too simplified.
When the Giants and the Niners went at it in the '80s, Parcells vs. Walsh, it was Belichick and Seifert running those great defenses respectively.
That '84 Niner team sent the entire starting 4 DBs to the pro bowl. They're a major reason Marino not only lost but lost by a lot in that lone Super Bowl.
He was ahead of his time, coordinating/building a defense suited for the game of 30+ years later.
As for the stint in Carolina, don't think it says anything.
I'm not arguing that Seifert is in the pantheon of head coaches, but I'm certainly arguing that's he's underrated by most NFL fans (and even a fair amount of Niner fans).
I would also say that Jimmy Johnson is maybe a bit overrated when the Switzer led Cowboys teams were still tough AF to knock out even after the Niners finally had the weapons to do it. Probably says more about the great team building the Cowboys had thanks to the Herschel Walker trade than anything. Those '92 and '93 Cowboys rosters were better than SF's, as much as I hate to admit it.
Johnson at best was maybe a more charming Jim Harbaugh with slightly better tactical knowledge. What did he do with the Dolphins and Marino? Right.
The idea that the Cowboys threw away multiple Super Bowls by firing Johnson is bulls***. They still won another one without him.
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a 3rd SB if Plax didn't shoot himself.
This is such a myth. Plax was having the worst season of his career even before he shot himself.
It wasn't just about Plax but it it did to the team mentally. It seemed the air just went out of them.
When I think of George, I primarily just think of SF falling to Dallas twice in a row & dropping the '95 divisional game at home vs. GB. And his Carolina tenure, which was horrific.