The Giants were coming off the first year of Dan Reeves. They went 11-5 and just missed winning the division on the last week of the season. They won a playoff game before getting pummeled by SF. Simms and LT retired. It was a clear transition for the franchise. Dave Brown was selected in the supplemental draft a year before using what would be a 1993 first round draft pick.
Was there any optimism? Was there faith in Young/Reeves to rebuild the team and compete? Was there any optimism towards Dave Brown?
The Giants battled back to a 9-7 finish in 1994, but had poor seasons in both 1995 and 1996. But, in real time - was there optimism for the direction of the franchise?
George Young and Tom Boisture failed to re-stock the team properly so it was filled with too many mid-level players.
That said, the surprising 3-0 start had us a little hopeful...then disaster struck in NO and the team failed to recover until it was basically too late.
It all unraveled for Brown in New Orleans. Brown started well . Then a Saints inside backer stepped in front of a telegraphed short slant. As I recall it was a Pick Six. 7 consecutive losses ensued.
Reeves promised that he would work with the front office regarding personnel moves . He had become a tyrant in Denver. After a brief interlude of peace , he resumed being a tyrant with the Giants . The next 2 seasons only got worse . Brown was terrible . The exodus of talented players continued as Young insisted on his “save the middle class” free -agency initiatives . He was an unmitigated disaster during this period . He should have been let go.
I will say this for Mara . He did not want Simms to be released . Ultimately he adhered to the “no interference “ clause that Young insisted be included in his contract . But Mara hated the move .
Uh, no.
BUT the Phil Simms cut was just mind boggling after the resurrected season he had.
The wind was sucked out of me for sure
Throw in Dan Reeves going with wobble wind ball brown over the more promising (yet late round draft pick) Kent Graham. And then cutting Kent Graham as the backup fora Tommy Maddox who at the time was terrible. It just seemed like the end was here.
But hindsight, the post Simms era was nothing compared to the post Eli Manning era going on 5 years. Daniel Jones > Dave Brown/Danny Kannell. Rest of giants roster and decision making is 1994+ > 2019+ BY A LONG SHOT
With the needle pointing down.
I remember the general feeling was the roster was trash and there was a "who the fuck are these guys" feeling about a couple of position groups (secondary in particular) ala the movie Major League. Seahorn, Sparks, Strahan, and Armstead were all on the team, but none of them were really ready yet.
It was surprising that they started 3-0, but as was mentioned up thread, it was a shaky 3-0 and Brown was not very convincing. Kudos to Reeves however for winning 6 straight to end the season with that roster.
Sadly 1993, for one brief period of like 4 games, Simms finally had 2 real quality WR. Then Sherrard got hurt. Losing that home game to Dallas cost us everything. Mark Johnson drops a Simms pass that would have salted alway the win. Fcck we have sucked again worse than the 95-99 years I hope Schoen is getting it right I'm not getting any younger
Oh, wait, after? Yeah, kind of meh with Phil Simms getting cut and LT retiring.
A revolving door of QBs.....until Kerry Collins.
This is the same reason I rooted hard for Butch Woolfolk who was a star in NJ at Westfield High.
I always root for Giants draft picks but being that I went to HS with Brown and BW being one of the states best players I think I wanted them to succeed badly.
But Brown was awful.
The 94 team won the last six but it was not enough. worse seasons followed.
Anyway, the sense was that Reeves had more or less righted the ship after Handley crashed it into the rocks. But they pushed Simms out the door in very sneaky fashion (it was actually 30 years ago yesterday) during the Rangers parade when no one was paying attention.
So suddenly as fans you realized there was a changing of the guard at QB and it was Brown or Graham. Brown was an unknown, so there were hopes for him to play well and take the job over at QB. You have to remember, at the time it wasn't strange for a QB to sit for 2-3 (or more years) before they got their chance to play. So that Brown didn't play until 1994 after being picked 1st in the 1992 Supplemental Draft wasn't a red flag back then.
Still, the sense was this was an entirely different team. Young didn't handle the salary cap well. They had their entire starting secondary leave in free agency. LT was gone. Simms was gone. So it was very much an unknown as to what was going to happen in 1994. I'd argue 1995 was worse because coming off a 6 game win streak to end 1994, we thought this team was ready to challenge Dallas. And they got curb stomped 35-0 on MNF in the opener and the season went into the toilet. Essentially...what you saw in 2023 was 1994 going into 1995.
Anyway, the sense was that Reeves had more or less righted the ship after Handley crashed it into the rocks. But they pushed Simms out the door in very sneaky fashion (it was actually 30 years ago yesterday) during the Rangers parade when no one was paying attention.
So suddenly as fans you realized there was a changing of the guard at QB and it was Brown or Graham. Brown was an unknown, so there were hopes for him to play well and take the job over at QB. You have to remember, at the time it wasn't strange for a QB to sit for 2-3 (or more years) before they got their chance to play. So that Brown didn't play until 1994 after being picked 1st in the 1992 Supplemental Draft wasn't a red flag back then.
Still, the sense was this was an entirely different team. Young didn't handle the salary cap well. They had their entire starting secondary leave in free agency. LT was gone. Simms was gone. So it was very much an unknown as to what was going to happen in 1994. I'd argue 1995 was worse because coming off a 6 game win streak to end 1994, we thought this team was ready to challenge Dallas. And they got curb stomped 35-0 on MNF in the opener and the season went into the toilet. Essentially...what you saw in 2023 was 1994 going into 1995.
Very well said. Many unknowns, but the one thing we knew was the strong OL and Hampton would give the Giants a dependable running game. They were deep in the backfield with Meggett, Tillman and Bunch. The rest of the team had a bunch of question marks.
Then more body blows when the entire friggin secondary leaves town. We’re talking mark Collins, Greg Jackson and Myron guyton. These guys helped make up our very defensive identity.
Then Meggett and Hampton carry the team early on, caught some breaks, then the worst fucking penalty call ever against Chris Calloway on the road at New Orleans, the giants go on to lose very much on the backs of that penalty (and the Dave brown pick 6 mentioned earlier) and 7 losses in a row. Then they close out with 6 wins…
I was still the same asshole hopeless romatic nyg fan then as am I now and insisted 95 would build off 94’s season ending hot streak. Dave brown showed me something in that road win at Cleveland, December 94. Fucking schmuck…
Then more body blows when the entire friggin secondary leaves town. We’re talking mark Collins, Greg Jackson and Myron guyton. These guys helped make up our very defensive identity.
Then Meggett and Hampton carry the team early on, caught some breaks, then the worst fucking penalty call ever against Chris Calloway on the road at New Orleans, the giants go on to lose very much on the backs of that penalty (and the Dave brown pick 6 mentioned earlier) and 7 losses in a row. Then they close out with 6 wins…
I was still the same asshole hopeless romatic nyg fan then as am I now and insisted 95 would build off 94’s season ending hot streak. Dave brown showed me something in that road win at Cleveland, December 94. Fucking schmuck…
There was also a game in the ‘94 season against Pittsburgh where Brown ran in a QB scramble TD and it was overturned as a fumble despite the fact that he crossed the goal line with clear possession and the ball shifted in his grip when he came down on the turf. It was complete bullshit and cost them the game.
Same here. What a gut punch that was. I went from manic to depression in the space of 24 hours.
Reeves all but begged Young to come in and resurrect the Giants except all he did was make us Denver II and it was horrid. Dave Brown, as stated above, threw lollipops for the most part and ran up the middle on QB sneaks. He was a disaster with the football in his hand looking to pass.
There was one particular game I attended vs. the Eagles where the Giants got the ball late in the game down by a few points with time to win it. On one play, Dave Brown sat back in the pocket way to long and failed draft pick Mike Mamula hit him, he fumbled, the Eagles recovered and the Giants lost a heartbreaker. It was terrible.
Kerry Collins was indeed a breath of fresh air at QB when he entered the game later in the decade vs. the very same Eagles and helped us win a game with a TD to Ike Hilliard as one of the standout plays.
Never regained the level of interest I invested during the 80s. Probably just as well. I needed to grow up and get a life. It's just a f*cking game.
Never regained the level of interest I invested during the 80s. Probably just as well. I needed to grow up and get a life. It's just a f*cking game.
Those were rough times. Tuna had left, LT hadn't been "LT" for quite awhile, cutting Phil - it seemed like the team had no clue what to do. Endless parade of mediocre at best QBs, retreads at many positions, poor drafting. Rudderless franchise at that time.
Nevertheless, I was extremely upbeat going into the 1995 season and believed we would vie for a Super Bowl. And then I went to the opener at home agains the Cowboys and Emmitt Smith ran for a 60 yard touchdown on his very first carry of the season and I knew instantly that we were headed for disaster. It was exactly the same for me in 2017, when I attended the opener in Arlington TX and knew by halftime that my exuberant optimism going into the game after the 2016 playoff appearance was completely misplaced.
And then in 2023 it happened yet again on opening day against the Cowboys after making the playoffs in 2022. Only this time, perhaps because history has eerily repeated itself for this team, I was fully prepared for what turned out to be the worst opening day loss in franchise history. Which does not bode well for 2024. If it is anything like 1996 or 2018, we are headed for another disastrous year.
BUT the Phil Simms cut was just mind boggling after the resurrected season he had.
The wind was sucked out of me for sure
Throw in Dan Reeves going with wobble wind ball brown over the more promising (yet late round draft pick) Kent Graham. And then cutting Kent Graham as the backup fora Tommy Maddox who at the time was terrible. It just seemed like the end was here.
But hindsight, the post Simms era was nothing compared to the post Eli Manning era going on 5 years. Daniel Jones > Dave Brown/Danny Kannell. Rest of giants roster and decision making is 1994+ > 2019+ BY A LONG SHOT
Agreed. I never liked Reeves, and I especially couldn't stand him after we got exposed in that SF playoff game. I was so angry we cut Simms and I couldn't stand Dave Brown. I have to say once Fassel came in, at least the Giants became competitive and fun to watch again, especially after we signed Kerry Collins.
Would the Giants have matched up with San Francisco and Dallas? Of course not. But with one more win, the '94 Giants would have entered the NFC playoffs as the #4 seed, with a wild card game at home.
I don't know whether Phil would have made it through another season, or whether he would have lifted the 9-7 Giants to 10-6 or better. He could no longer make every throw, and had suffered significant injuries in 1990 and 1992 after sitting behind Hostetler for most of 1991. On the other hand, he had shown in 1993 that he could adjust to diminished arm strength and be the game manager Reeves wanted. I think it's a reasonable bet that he could have won the games Brown and Graham did, and added a win against a mediocre/bad opponent like the Rams, Saints, Lions or Cardinals.
Cutting Phil was bad enough, though the end was near for him. Cutting him to make room for Dave Brown and cover Young's inept cap management was infuriating.
Things started to go off track two years before when St. Bill upped and left suddenly after the draft and after all the coaching candidates had been hired. The team got old and don't forget it also got raided by free agency. Between the players who left in free agency and the players who got old and retired, there were a lot of key guys who went out the door and needed to be replaced all at once.
Reeves was Reeves. A Landry disciple who adopted all of his old coach's mannerisms and organizational skills and none of the creativity. Not a bad coach, but not one for a re-building team.