If there's one thing we've learned over the last 5 years is the Giants love them some Daniel Jones.
A few contract things I think increase the chances he returns:
- Next year is the cheap year in his contract, keeping him in 2025 will only cost 30.5M in cash (cash by year 46, 36, 30.5, 47.5).
- In a strange way getting hurt would might help him. If he can't pass a physical in March, 23M of that 30.5M is guaranteed. If they're already paying 75%, it might make sense to let him rehab and pay the additional 7.5M.
So with contract stuff in his favor, I think it would take a disaster of a season, including Daboll getting fired for Jones to not return.
Obviously a good season secures his return. But I think even a bad to average season won't end his tenure. He becomes quite cheap as a bridge.
What has cousins won by the way???
I agree. And, still, he is a much better quarterback than Jones.
--$41.6M
--15.2% of the cap
How are either of those good for the Giants?
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Jesus. Falcons think so highly of him - they drafted his replacement already.
What has cousins won by the way???
I agree. And, still, he is a much better quarterback than Jones.
Yes, he definitely is. But when we upgrade from Jones - the last thing we need is a mid 30s QB who has never won.
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In comment 16538873 JT039 said:
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Jesus. Falcons think so highly of him - they drafted his replacement already.
What has cousins won by the way???
I agree. And, still, he is a much better quarterback than Jones.
Yes, he definitely is. But when we upgrade from Jones - the last thing we need is a mid 30s QB who has never won.
Who is not that much better, really.
1. Rumors of neck issues impacting his throwing motion
2. He tore his ACL
3. When he played he was horrendous
4. Taylor and DeVito made him look like the third best QB on the team
And yet, after an offseason that saw Kirk Cousins become an FA and one of the strongest QB draft classes in years, Jones is here.
Next year's FA class probably won't have a Cousins in it, the draft class is expected to be weaker, and Jones is going to cost less.
So why would the Giants not bring him back in 2025?
That's why I am resigned to the fate that, barring a catastrophic injury or performance, Jones will return in 2025.
Jones, Lock, and DeVito are at best journeyman QBs. The difference is that the latter two are extremely cheap. Taylor and DeVito outplayed Jones last year. If Lock and/or DeVito do so this year, then Jones will be cut IMO. Lock would be resigned, and the Giants will begin searching for their next franchise QB.
To those who think Jones will be gone... who's the alternative?
Much like trading for Russell Wilson from a few years ago or drafting Malik Willis 5th overall.
Much like trading for Russell Wilson from a few years ago or drafting Malik Willis 5th overall.
Both Cousins and Wilson would have been better alternatives to Jones. They may not get the Giants to the Super Bowl but with a good team and coaching they would give the Giants a fighting chance to at least get to the Conference Finals.
Engram leaves here and all of the sudden no more drops.
Barkley never came close to what he was when Eli was his QB. Yes, injuries, but he was healthy in 2022 and his receiving was way down. Plus maybe his blitz pickup might have something to do with Jones not recognizing where the blitz is coming from?
I hope I eat crow but all evidence points to the guy just not being good at football.
Lot of good points but I don't think the beginning conclusion is fair. Look at the Judge teams with Jones and without Jones. Went from a mediocre to bad offense to a little sisters of the poor offense without him. could be coaching, bad players, etc. Could be he made the team better. 2022 was a bad football team. Made the playoffs and won a game. You can give credit to coaching, schedule, SB, etc. Also fair to give credit to DJ. Same way you can look at the woes when DJ was on the field in 2023 and blame just him, or you can blame other things. I think the coaching job was great in 2022 but bad in 2023 and DJ's play was right with this.
To those who think Jones will be gone... who's the alternative?
Well we could draft one and develop him. Oh, wait...
He has a worse contract
And the capital to get him was astronomical.
So no- he is or was not a better option.
if they cant, jones will be back.
The complicating variable is timing. The Giants have to make a down payment on Jones a month before the draft on March 5. Unlike this year, where 2024 Jones was already paid for, the payment structure for 2025 Jones isn't predetermined.
Now maybe they pay the 12M as insurance and proceed into UFA/trade/draft season, and that's a fair alternative.
In terms of the like factor, I don't think that's a binary scenario. The Giants can like a player in the draft and select him and rationalize keeping Jones on a 1/30M bridge deal.
In fact that scenario is probably the most similar to the scenarios you've described with both Smith/Mahomes and Smith/Kaepernick.
I know OTC is projecting the cap at 260 for 2025 right now, but I don't think that holds. I think that's an extraordinary conservative estimate that the cap only increase 5M YoY. My guess is the cap is closer to 275 for 2025. On a 275M cap, Jones would be 15% of the cap. Not great, but tolerable for continuity.
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I'll say for him to return he'll need to make the playoffs and stay healthy. Anything less he's gone. I don't think drafting Nabers had much to do with Jones.
They structured the contract in a way to move off him after this year.
I actually think it's quite the other way around. The contract was constructed to make it easy for them to keep him the third year.
The other variable I missed in the OP is that 12M of 2025 salary becomes guaranteed March 5th. So prior to the draft the Giants effectively must decide whether they keep him or not.
I don't think keeping Jones precludes them from drafting a quarterback in 2025 draft, but they will have to decide before the draft.
It's a clever element of the deal that benefits Team Jones.
I think you are absolutely right. It is a virtual certainty he is brought back next year purely due to the clever way team DJ structured this contract. Never has a front office been more bamboozled by a player than this franchise.
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He should end up being the starter, if healthy, and with a better supporting cast have a positive season. I get that its the slow period but there should be a block on DJ threads until camp.
I for one will be rooting for him to win a bunch of games and make the playoffs so we can have a little bit of fun this season. I feel like he's become so polarizing that half of the fan base wants him to be so bad he has to be cut. That just doesn't make sense to me as a fan that buys season tickets and invests many Sundays on the team.
Any chance we can have a block on you posting in perpetuity?
You wouldn’t have anything to do.
I for one will be rooting for him to win a bunch of games and make the playoffs so we can have a little bit of fun this season. I feel like he's become so polarizing that half of the fan base wants him to be so bad he has to be cut. That just doesn't make sense to me as a fan that buys season tickets and invests many Sundays on the team.
Nobody put a gun to your head to make you open this thread. If you don't want to see it, pass it by.
Our defense is preventing Jones from throwing TD passes? Maybe they're better than we thought.
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In comment 16538807 Sean said:
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I'll say for him to return he'll need to make the playoffs and stay healthy. Anything less he's gone. I don't think drafting Nabers had much to do with Jones.
They structured the contract in a way to move off him after this year.
I actually think it's quite the other way around. The contract was constructed to make it easy for them to keep him the third year.
The other variable I missed in the OP is that 12M of 2025 salary becomes guaranteed March 5th. So prior to the draft the Giants effectively must decide whether they keep him or not.
I don't think keeping Jones precludes them from drafting a quarterback in 2025 draft, but they will have to decide before the draft.
It's a clever element of the deal that benefits Team Jones.
I think you are absolutely right. It is a virtual certainty he is brought back next year purely due to the clever way team DJ structured this contract. Never has a front office been more bamboozled by a player than this franchise.
One more season of DJ already makes me want to vomit, I cannot fathom two
UFA is going to find you average QBs with inflated salaries - like Cousins or Dak. No team is trading a young, promising QB for anything the Giants can offer?
The Giants clearly think Jones is a good QB. Given that, which of the above options do you think they would choose over him in 2025?
If Jones is able to play in 2025 he will almost certainly be doing it as the starter for the Giants. They are open to upgrading, but it is not seen as a necessity.
You wouldn’t have anything to do.[/quote]
I really am dying to know. Is this whiney gash thing new for you? The Internet says you've been on BBI for some time, but this degree of bitchiness is something I would have noticed before.
If Jones is able to play in 2025 he will almost certainly be doing it as the starter for the Giants. They are open to upgrading, but it is not seen as a necessity.[/quote]
And with the requirement of a down payment to keep him on the roster throughout the draft process, I think the odds are very high he is there in 2025.
UFA is going to find you average QBs with inflated salaries - like Cousins or Dak. No team is trading a young, promising QB for anything the Giants can offer?
The Giants clearly think Jones is a good QB. Given that, which of the above options do you think they would choose over him in 2025?
If Jones is able to play in 2025 he will almost certainly be doing it as the starter for the Giants. They are open to upgrading, but it is not seen as a necessity.
There is one option out there and I understand there might be less than 0% chance of it happening. But stranger things happen.
What if Buffalo implodes this year? Can they possibly be dumb enough to put Allen on the market for say 3 first rounders plus whatever.
Just spitballin.
Who is not that much better, really.
See, this is why many think the DJFC have lost their damn minds.
Kirk Cousins has played 8 full seasons, in 7 of them, he's thrown for over 4,000 yards, and in the 8th, almost 3,700 yards - totals Jones HAS NEVER REACHED!
In 8 full seasons, Cousins has thrown for at least 25 TD's, again, a number that Jones has never reached, and only came close once. He has never in his career averaged under 7.1 YPA, again, a number Jones has never reached.
I have my issues with Cousins, but he is light years better than Daniel Jones, and anyone arguing that simply doesn't know football.
Engram leaves here and all of the sudden no more drops.
Barkley never came close to what he was when Eli was his QB. Yes, injuries, but he was healthy in 2022 and his receiving was way down. Plus maybe his blitz pickup might have something to do with Jones not recognizing where the blitz is coming from?
I hope I eat crow but all evidence points to the guy just not being good at football.
Feliciano played half the snaps in SF (48%) to what he did in NYG (97%). Not to mention the scheme and players around him on the line. He wasn't even bad in New York and wanted to return. This is Daniel's fault? Weird man.
Hernandez hasn't been much better in Zona. His PFF ratings have been mid 60's or lower. Low bar, I guess?
Evan Engram caused six INTs in 2020 and had 11 drops altogether. He had 7 last year and an ADOT of 5 yards. Lots of dump offs. Not to mention his YPG still wasn't higher than it was in 2019 - a Jones year.
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Who is not that much better, really.
See, this is why many think the DJFC have lost their damn minds.
This why idiots permeate BBI. I want Jones gone and have for quite awhile. But if you put Jones on the Vikings and put Cousins behind the Giants offense, the numbers likely flip.
Is Cousins better? Like I said, somewhat.
In fact - he couldn’t even beat the Giants at home on which you called one of the worst playoff teams ever.
To those who think Jones will be gone... who's the alternative?
This is exactly where I am. The time to replace Jones was this offseason. I think the Giants have enough talent to play themselves out of a 1-3 draft pick in 2025. That is likely the spot required to get a top qb prospect in 25. I think Jones is back in 25.
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If you want to draft a rookie, is there someone as good as Drake Maye coming out who will be easier/cheaper for the Giants to get? If the only first round QBs coming out are the JJ/Penix/Nix range, why would the Giants take one this year?
UFA is going to find you average QBs with inflated salaries - like Cousins or Dak. No team is trading a young, promising QB for anything the Giants can offer?
The Giants clearly think Jones is a good QB. Given that, which of the above options do you think they would choose over him in 2025?
If Jones is able to play in 2025 he will almost certainly be doing it as the starter for the Giants. They are open to upgrading, but it is not seen as a necessity.
There is one option out there and I understand there might be less than 0% chance of it happening. But stranger things happen.
What if Buffalo implodes this year? Can they possibly be dumb enough to put Allen on the market for say 3 first rounders plus whatever.
Just spitballin.
I don't understand why the Bills would do that deal. You don't trade an elite QB in the prime of his career for draft picks. They don't get closer to knocking off the Chiefs by hoping they can package 3 first round picks together in the hopes of finding someone as good as the guy they just traded.
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if they can get someone they like better, they will do it.
if they cant, jones will be back.
The complicating variable is timing. The Giants have to make a down payment on Jones a month before the draft on March 5. Unlike this year, where 2024 Jones was already paid for, the payment structure for 2025 Jones isn't predetermined.
Now maybe they pay the 12M as insurance and proceed into UFA/trade/draft season, and that's a fair alternative.
In terms of the like factor, I don't think that's a binary scenario. The Giants can like a player in the draft and select him and rationalize keeping Jones on a 1/30M bridge deal.
In fact that scenario is probably the most similar to the scenarios you've described with both Smith/Mahomes and Smith/Kaepernick.
I know OTC is projecting the cap at 260 for 2025 right now, but I don't think that holds. I think that's an extraordinary conservative estimate that the cap only increase 5M YoY. My guess is the cap is closer to 275 for 2025. On a 275M cap, Jones would be 15% of the cap. Not great, but tolerable for continuity.
completely agree - if jones performs in line with his career averages, which i generally consider a most likely scenario for any player - it is possible they decide to keep him as insurance even if they also decide they need to upgrade. Unless you have a #1/2 overall pick the draft is never a guarantee that you will get the guy you want 2 months ahead of time when most big cap decisions are made.
if he performs to his career averages and stays healthy, he also likely has positive trade value since the trading team would take on just 1 year, $30m, just $12m guaranteed $, 2nd year option. At age 28 he'd be same age Mayfield was this past offseason when he got a richer deal than that, so in a higher cap it's possible there's value there. his cap # from a team trading for him could easily be lowered below $20m.
i think all of the above were things they considered when they extended him and structured the 3rd year the way they did in the first place. as we have said, by their actions they liked him a lot when they extended him and appear to still like him even after the ACL. That 'like' can be valued by a contract that over time has ranked somewhere between #10-15. the path to his contract exceeding $40m aav was by ranking top 5/10 in the statistical categories everyone routinely cites as things he needs to do (and/or winning enough to get to playoffs). I think it's probably fair to assume they saw Maye as a potential top 5-10 QB but didn't see that in JJM/Penix/Nix.
Jones put up a historically bad 2 TDs to 6 ints, took 2 injuries and went 1-5 only putting up an offensive TD in one half of one game and was outperformed in basically the same anount of pass attempts in passing TDs, passing yards and iNTs by an undrafted rookie and a journeyman backup . He threw as many TDs to the opposition as he did to his team.
Yet this organization didn’t see fit to draft a single QB in a draft their owner acknowledged as one if the best QBs drafts in years
Not only that they replaced tbe journeyman backup with a worse journeyman backup
So no I really dont think there is a chance he wont be here in 2025.
In fact - he couldn’t even beat the Giants at home on which you called one of the worst playoff teams ever.
What has Jones won?
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Is a highly paid AB who hasn’t won shit, right?
In fact - he couldn’t even beat the Giants at home on which you called one of the worst playoff teams ever.
What has Jones won?
I am talking about Cousins. Keep up. Not everything is about Jones. But your obsession for him is quite impressive.
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Who is not that much better, really.
See, this is why many think the DJFC have lost their damn minds.
Kirk Cousins has played 8 full seasons, in 7 of them, he's thrown for over 4,000 yards, and in the 8th, almost 3,700 yards - totals Jones HAS NEVER REACHED!
In 8 full seasons, Cousins has thrown for at least 25 TD's, again, a number that Jones has never reached, and only came close once. He has never in his career averaged under 7.1 YPA, again, a number Jones has never reached.
I have my issues with Cousins, but he is light years better than Daniel Jones, and anyone arguing that simply doesn't know football.
Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins are already ranked among the top twenty quarterbacks to have ever played the position in terms of passing yards, touchdown passes and passer rating. And they will both likely have multiple years ahead of very strong production. Daniel Jones is probably the worst quarterback to have ever played the position in NFL history given the number of games started and passes attempted. My guess is, he will remove any doubt as to this ignominious achievement in the year(s) ahead.
The idea that people have compared him to players like Cousins and Wilson has been comical over the past five years. Now it is beyond sad. Schoen should have absolutely signed either Cousins or Wilson this past off season and cut DJ. Carrying on with this charade is the very definition of insanity.
A poster said Cousins "is not that much better, really." That is a comparison
Except Section125s post.
And your reply agreeing cousins is better than Jones.
But no, no one in this thread compared them
We gonna get some kind of Big Apple discount?
Money grow on trees around here?
We gonna get some kind of Big Apple discount?
Money grow on trees around here?
Go Terps throwing shit to the wall.
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He's 36 in 2 months, he's coming off an achilles tear and he just signed a contract that guarantees him $90M.
We gonna get some kind of Big Apple discount?
Money grow on trees around here?
Go Terps throwing shit to the wall.
Along with his fan club.
Signing Cousins to a contract like that would be the worst signing of the offseason.
You did, didn't you?
In comment 16538873 JT039 said:
What has cousins won by the way???
In comment 16538893 JT039 said:
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In comment 16538873 JT039 said:
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Jesus. Falcons think so highly of him - they drafted his replacement already.
What has cousins won by the way???
I agree. And, still, he is a much better quarterback than Jones.
Yes, he definitely is. But when we upgrade from Jones - the last thing we need is a mid 30s QB who has never won.
In comment 16538917 JT039 said:
Much like trading for Russell Wilson from a few years ago or drafting Malik Willis 5th overall.
In comment 16538982 JT039 said:
In fact - he couldn’t even beat the Giants at home on which you called one of the worst playoff teams ever.
In comment 16539003 JT039 said:
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In comment 16538982 JT039 said:
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Is a highly paid AB who hasn’t won shit, right?
In fact - he couldn’t even beat the Giants at home on which you called one of the worst playoff teams ever.
What has Jones won?
I am talking about Cousins. Keep up. Not everything is about Jones. But your obsession for him is quite impressive.
I think maybe you don't know what "compare" means.
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He's 36 in 2 months, he's coming off an achilles tear and he just signed a contract that guarantees him $90M.
We gonna get some kind of Big Apple discount?
Money grow on trees around here?
Go Terps throwing shit to the wall.
Those are known as "facts". Something you are obviously not familiar with.
It's really that simple. And it's the same policy for every NFL team that doesn't currently have a top 5 QB. Doesn't matter who's on the roster or what the circumstances are, if you can get a better QB, you do it.
Maybe they land Prescott or trade for Cousins. IF the Giants feel those guys are upgrades, Jones would be gone.
But unless Jones is truly horrid, the Giants are not just going to dump him and ride Drew Lock without having Jones' true replacement in the building.
Thus, if Jones is serviceable or better this year, and the Giants can't sign a better QB, Jones will be back.
Even if the Giants are terrible and draft a QB with a high pick, Jones might still be back to hold the fort for however long it takes for the rookie to play.
And oh yeah. Jones would also have to stay healthy (to not return). If his injury clause kicks in, they're going to be paying him $30M regardless. That might keep him a Giants backup next year even if they find a better starter.
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In comment 16538776 JoeyBigBlue said:
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A long playoff run.
You think the Giants will cut Jones if he doesn't have a long playoff run? That doesn't make much sense financially.
If he plays well (4000 yards, 30+ total TDs) and has a long playoff run, let’s say to the Conference championship game, it will be hard to release him. But we both know that won’t happen.
With the season you posted, you say it would be hard to release him. Why the hell would you even contemplate releasing him, that's an elite performance.
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In comment 16538778 christian said:
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In comment 16538776 JoeyBigBlue said:
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A long playoff run.
You think the Giants will cut Jones if he doesn't have a long playoff run? That doesn't make much sense financially.
If he plays well (4000 yards, 30+ total TDs) and has a long playoff run, let’s say to the Conference championship game, it will be hard to release him. But we both know that won’t happen.
With the season you posted, you say it would be hard to release him. Why the hell would you even contemplate releasing him, that's an elite performance.
Which is why it would be hard to release him.