I just added this blurb at the end of final thoughts:
"One final note. The Giants-Nabers connection was obvious once the draft order was determined. Many became distracted by other shiny objects such as the second tier of quarterbacks and Rome Odunze. The Giants may have welcomed and encouraged this. It will be interesting to look back at these discussions in a few years."
made a decision that a force multiplier (Nabers) was the better way to go at 6, rather than a second tier QB (JJM). Only time will tell, but its a sound strategy whether it works out or not.
I just added this blurb at the end of final thoughts:
"One final note. The Giants-Nabers connection was obvious once the draft order was determined. Many became distracted by other shiny objects such as the second tier of quarterbacks and Rome Odunze. The Giants may have welcomed and encouraged this. It will be interesting to look back at these discussions in a few years."
Good write up. And I agree with this final note. Nabers was the right pick given what was available at six. And with the apparent rough starts for JJM and Nix so far, it appears that the Giants may have been in on the subterfuge this time, rather than being stung by it as they were in 2019. I would have loved it if Schoen had somehow gotten Maye at a reasonable price. And Penix may still turn out to have been the smart pick, though I can't fault Schoen given the injury history there. But Nabers may ultimately turn out to be the best overall player from the 2024 draft.
Let's hope Daboll can work his magic again and have this group significantly elevate what is otherwise a very suspect offense.
I wanted Odunze if they were going WR, but lost of people like
I just added this blurb at the end of final thoughts:
"One final note. The Giants-Nabers connection was obvious once the draft order was determined. Many became distracted by other shiny objects such as the second tier of quarterbacks and Rome Odunze. The Giants may have welcomed and encouraged this. It will be interesting to look back at these discussions in a few years."
I agree with this
I don't recall being so sure that the Giants drafted a future pro bowl level guy
I didn't see it as much with OBJ
I think I saw it in Shockey but that was a long time ago.
Confirms what we all know - Hyatt has all the talent but was not ready mentally last year. I hope Nabers motivates him, rather than discourages him.
His comments on how much he can rely on Wan'Dale to teach the other WRs only bolsters how much I like Wan'Dale as a player.
I knew the ability but didn't know how far along he was mentally.
that Hyatt and Robinson are flying under the radar for many fans... they are poised to have big years.
I'm not sure how you measure big year, but the biggest questions to be determined at WR:
1) Will Hyatt beat out Slayton, he didn't last year and a number of rookies in his class materially outperformed him.
2) How will Robinson's role be impacted by Nabers. Robinson was a high volume, low yardage, low YAC receiver last year.
IMO, the 2 best WRs on the team are Nabers and Robinson
Next is Slayton and, IMO, until Hyatt can be depended on - he will be the odd man out in terms of snap count.
Confirms what we all know - Hyatt has all the talent but was not ready mentally last year. I hope Nabers motivates him, rather than discourages him.
His comments on how much he can rely on Wan'Dale to teach the other WRs only bolsters how much I like Wan'Dale as a player.
I knew the ability but didn't know how far along he was mentally.
Agreed. Building on Eric's point that Daboll rarely offers such effusive praise: last season was the opposite. While fans and media were (understandably) excited by Hyatt's flashes, Daboll said again and again: works hard, making progress, long way to go yet. The corollary of him saying "breaking the huddle, getting aligned, knowing what to do, I think he’s made a tremendous improvement in that area" is he didn't know what to do last year.
I agree with Eric. With usual health caveat, I think by mid season our WR room will -- for the first time in a long time - be closer to first than worst
I'd be shocked if Olszewski doesn't make it. He bailed Schoen and Daboll out pretty big time last year after they botched the final cuts and relied on a rookie who had never returned punts before in his life.
I think Gunner sticks, which makes 5 locks in my mind with the 4 obvious ones.
Allen Robinson, McKenzie, Boykin and the rest of the depth chart right now are fighting for 1 or maybe 2 spots.
I'd be shocked if Olszewski doesn't make it. He bailed Schoen and Daboll out pretty big time last year after they botched the final cuts and relied on a rookie who had never returned punts before in his life.
I think Gunner sticks, which makes 5 locks in my mind with the 4 obvious ones.
Allen Robinson, McKenzie, Boykin and the rest of the depth chart right now are fighting for 1 or maybe 2 spots.
Gunner could very easily make it. But I'm not sure the Giants can carry two special teams only WRs unless they carry seven WRs. I tend to learn towards Boykin.
I picked McKenzie because he has an established history of returning punts, Daboll's experience with him as an offensive player, and his ability to play the slot.
Three words for the WRs.......Please stay healthy!
And potential for development so that each could compete for at least a #3 role on most teams. Now add Nabers who has the combined skills of all 3 of those players. No longer can teams take away the strength of Slayton, Hyatt or Wan’dale because Nabers has those same skills in just one player.
Regarding the rest of the receivers, the Giants need at least one receiver who can “play big”. There may be a battle there or maybe they just use Johnson as that receiver.
Regarding specials, I think Olszewski’s ability and value far outweighs McKenzie’s. Olszewski can return punts but I wouldn’t be surprised if he can return kickoffs better than McKenzie under the new format. Olszewski’s ability to gain 10+ yards consistently on punt returns and occasionally break a big one outweighs McKenzie’s ability to gain 20+ yards on a kickoff return which may not even be possible for him in the new format. McKenzie’s best position to start the year may be on the practice squad. Other than deciding between those 2 players, the 5 or 6 spot WRs should be the best gunners, although the “gunners” on the kickoff unit may not have the same role as before.
2 years ago...Galloway, Sills, Toney, Shepard.....
makes a quick and big impact while staying healthy. I think a lot of the improvement in the group will be based on that.
Heavy pass offenses have been around for decades. Air Coryell, run and shoot, etc.....not a lot of SB winners without some productive run game balance. Plenty of nice regular season teams though.
2) How will Robinson's role be impacted by Nabers. Robinson was a high volume, low yardage, low YAC receiver last year.
IMO, the 2 best WRs on the team are Nabers and Robinson
Next is Slayton and, IMO, until Hyatt can be depended on - he will be the odd man out in terms of snap count.
These are numbers Eric on Li and pulled a few weeks ago re: Robinson in 2023. The big question in terms of impact for Robinson will be whether he's the dump off guy again and whether he can increase his YAC.
Robinson's 4.8 YAC put him at 70th in the league. He got a lot of looks and didn't do a lot of damage with them. I suspect Nabers will be the guy who gets a lot of those looks and does more damage with them.
All things equal with health, this is my guess in order of targets and yards
Heavy pass offenses have been around for decades. Air Coryell, run and shoot, etc.....not a lot of SB winners without some productive run game balance.
Wan'dale proved himself last season in a terrible situation. If he stays healthy he is going to be what everyone hoped Shep could be. Love Hyatt's potential so really hope he puts it together, he's a question mark to me. If he's at best a one-trick pony going deep the o-line needs to give him enough time to have a shot, that would still give defenses something to worry about. Nabers isn't a guarentee but at this point I'd be surprised and disappointed if he's not a pro bowler this season (barring QB/o-line holding him back), and it'll sting more if JMM, Penix and/or Nix turns out to be the goods..
This is the most potential and talent the overall WR group has had since Nicks, Cruz and Manningham.
Heavy pass offenses have been around for decades. Air Coryell, run and shoot, etc.....not a lot of SB winners without some productive run game balance. Plenty of nice regular season teams though.
Do you mean most Super Bowl winning teams had "productive run game balance" during the Super Bowl itself or in the games leading up to the Super Bowl?
Regardless, I'm not sure what Detroit and San Francisco have to do with it.
And potential for development so that each could compete for at least a #3 role on most teams. Now add Nabers who has the combined skills of all 3 of those players. No longer can teams take away the strength of Slayton, Hyatt or Wan’dale because Nabers has those same skills in just one player.
Regarding the rest of the receivers, the Giants need at least one receiver who can “play big”. There may be a battle there or maybe they just use Johnson as that receiver.
Regarding specials, I think Olszewski’s ability and value far outweighs McKenzie’s. Olszewski can return punts but I wouldn’t be surprised if he can return kickoffs better than McKenzie under the new format. Olszewski’s ability to gain 10+ yards consistently on punt returns and occasionally break a big one outweighs McKenzie’s ability to gain 20+ yards on a kickoff return which may not even be possible for him in the new format. McKenzie’s best position to start the year may be on the practice squad. Other than deciding between those 2 players, the 5 or 6 spot WRs should be the best gunners, although the “gunners” on the kickoff unit may not have the same role as before.
In this scenario, McKenzie would not be thee kick returner. It would be one of the running backs.
RE: i think this is wishful thinking tbh from eric
I didn't think Hodgins would make the team last year. I was wrong. He should not make it this year. Clearly Daboll is looking for speed. Nabers, Hyatt, Slayton and Robinson have it. If in camp Hodgins is making a lot of catches from Jones, we are in trouble. It will mean Jones has reverted(resumed) to security blanket mode and "Mr. Dumpoff" is still with us.
RE: RE: i think this is wishful thinking tbh from eric
to break the century mark in receptions in a season (Steve Smith and OBJ). Daboll's Giants have attempted just over 500 passes/season and completed about 65% of passes over the 2 seasons (regardless of QB). Nabers should be in line to get 120-130 targets that would have gone to Waller and Saquon, but I think they got to feed him a lot more (140-150 targets) if he is going to pass 100 receptions and push elite WR status next season.
Jones is the question mark. If healthy, he should get to 500 attempts and likely 350 completions based on past performance but he has never really had someone this talented to throw to. Will they get on same page quickly? I think Jones is going to need to for his own sake.
RE: RE: RE: i think this is wishful thinking tbh from eric
the giants are not going to have.3-4 WR have big years.
this wont happen with DJ at QB.
what constitutes a big year?
i put over/under at 800 for Nabors.
600 for Slayton.
500 for robinson/hyatt.
i expect 2022 game plans with DJ at QB. run the ball, short passing game, QB run game, and make it a close game in the 4th.
They are not going to run that kind of offense with these wide receivers.
they said that last year with waller. ..
if you go to vegas i doubt my over unders are that wrong.
They didn't run that type of offense last year so why would they run it this year when they have upgraded the WRs even further and said good-bye to Saquon. Use your head.
I'm not sure what type of offense they wanted to run last year, be they were 27th in the NFL at 7.3 air yards per attempt.
Much like the previous year, they threw the ball short a lot and presumably were looking for the pass catchers to do the damage after catch.
This makes total sense. This is the offense Kansas City runs. They were 31st in the league in air yards per attempt last year, and have been in the bottom 3rd of the NFL the last few years.
One of the the things that sets Nabers apart from the other two top 10 receivers is his elite YAC ability. He turns catches into punt returns. I suspect that will be a big part of the offensive plan.
What I don't expect to see is the Giants to air it out like the Bills.
I'm not sure what type of offense they wanted to run last year, be they were 27th in the NFL at 7.3 air yards per attempt.
Much like the previous year, they threw the ball short a lot and presumably were looking for the pass catchers to do the damage after catch.
This makes total sense. This is the offense Kansas City runs. They were 31st in the league in air yards per attempt last year, and have been in the bottom 3rd of the NFL the last few years.
One of the the things that sets Nabers apart from the other two top 10 receivers is his elite YAC ability. He turns catches into punt returns. I suspect that will be a big part of the offensive plan.
What I don't expect to see is the Giants to air it out like the Bills.
Good points - using Hyatt and Slayton to pull the safeties deep and hit Nabers and Wan'Dale (perhaps TE Johnson) underneath the safeties and over the LBs(?).
I'm not sure what type of offense they wanted to run last year, be they were 27th in the NFL at 7.3 air yards per attempt.
Much like the previous year, they threw the ball short a lot and presumably were looking for the pass catchers to do the damage after catch.
This makes total sense. This is the offense Kansas City runs. They were 31st in the league in air yards per attempt last year, and have been in the bottom 3rd of the NFL the last few years.
One of the the things that sets Nabers apart from the other two top 10 receivers is his elite YAC ability. He turns catches into punt returns. I suspect that will be a big part of the offensive plan.
What I don't expect to see is the Giants to air it out like the Bills.
I fully expect them to use the short passing game. However, that's not the point raised above about them reverting back to the 2022 offense that was largely based on Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley running the ball. If anyone recalls, they were forced to do this because the of the mess they had at WR that year.
the point i was making about last year with waller
was that it failed.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
RE: the point i was making about last year with waller
was that it failed.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
I don't believe a 22 is replicable. It worked because of a resurgent SB and DJ taking off quickly. No SB and teams stopped DJ from running.
RE: the point i was making about last year with waller
was that it failed.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
While part of the failure was on DJs slow(no) read capability, a LOT of it had to do with no, and I mean no, offensive line. Clearly, if not the worst oline in NFL history, than one of the worst. It got a bit better after about 10 games, but not much.
I don't expect a miracle to happen and Jones becomes a top 10 QB. But I also do not think he will be completely useless.
honesty, the Giants did go BPA at pick 1. I wanted a QB but did not want to force the pick, happy we got Nabers. Hopefully he becomes the player everyone thinks he can
RE: RE: RE: i think this is wishful thinking tbh from eric
Putting 2023 aside, if you look at Jones's intended air yards per attempt the slope downward is pretty obvious each year.
8, 7.6, 7.2, 6.4
Every offensive coach who has worked with him after the 2019 season has progressively asked him to throw the ball shorter and shorter, and ostensibly get the ball out faster.
Of course this could be the function of pass protection, but we shouldn't ignore the possibility coaches recognize the longer Jones stays in the pocket the higher chance something bad happens.
And I don't think we should ignore the possibility the plus skill Jones has exhibited is straight line run speed. Which is typically the first thing a player recovers after an ACL injury.
I won't be surprised if the offense still has major components of get the ball out quick otherwise take off.
RE: the point i was making about last year with waller
was that it failed.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
This Daniel Jones stuff has gone way too far in the other direction.
You're either deliberately misrepresenting what happened or have a terrible memory.
Waller was healthy most of the summer. Right before the season started, he pulled his hamstring again. So he wasn't the player he was in the summer. On New York's first drive, the Giants easily drove down field into the redzone. Andrew Thomas jumps offsides, there is a bad snap, and then the field goal gets blocked and Andrew Thomas is lost for the first half of the year. The OL completely falls apart. Other injuries hit the OL and at one point we had a line where the combined experience level was practically zero. Jones hurts his neck, when he comes back, he tears his ACL.
And somehow you've turned this into "well, they can't run a normal offense."
"One final note. The Giants-Nabers connection was obvious once the draft order was determined. Many became distracted by other shiny objects such as the second tier of quarterbacks and Rome Odunze. The Giants may have welcomed and encouraged this. It will be interesting to look back at these discussions in a few years."
"One final note. The Giants-Nabers connection was obvious once the draft order was determined. Many became distracted by other shiny objects such as the second tier of quarterbacks and Rome Odunze. The Giants may have welcomed and encouraged this. It will be interesting to look back at these discussions in a few years."
Good write up. And I agree with this final note. Nabers was the right pick given what was available at six. And with the apparent rough starts for JJM and Nix so far, it appears that the Giants may have been in on the subterfuge this time, rather than being stung by it as they were in 2019. I would have loved it if Schoen had somehow gotten Maye at a reasonable price. And Penix may still turn out to have been the smart pick, though I can't fault Schoen given the injury history there. But Nabers may ultimately turn out to be the best overall player from the 2024 draft.
Let's hope Daboll can work his magic again and have this group significantly elevate what is otherwise a very suspect offense.
"One final note. The Giants-Nabers connection was obvious once the draft order was determined. Many became distracted by other shiny objects such as the second tier of quarterbacks and Rome Odunze. The Giants may have welcomed and encouraged this. It will be interesting to look back at these discussions in a few years."
I agree with this
I don't recall being so sure that the Giants drafted a future pro bowl level guy
I didn't see it as much with OBJ
I think I saw it in Shockey but that was a long time ago.
His comments on how much he can rely on Wan'Dale to teach the other WRs only bolsters how much I like Wan'Dale as a player.
I knew the ability but didn't know how far along he was mentally.
I'm not sure how you measure big year, but the biggest questions to be determined at WR:
1) Will Hyatt beat out Slayton, he didn't last year and a number of rookies in his class materially outperformed him.
2) How will Robinson's role be impacted by Nabers. Robinson was a high volume, low yardage, low YAC receiver last year.
Quote:
that Hyatt and Robinson are flying under the radar for many fans... they are poised to have big years.
I'm not sure how you measure big year, but the biggest questions to be determined at WR:
1) Will Hyatt beat out Slayton, he didn't last year and a number of rookies in his class materially outperformed him.
2) How will Robinson's role be impacted by Nabers. Robinson was a high volume, low yardage, low YAC receiver last year.
IMO, the 2 best WRs on the team are Nabers and Robinson
Next is Slayton and, IMO, until Hyatt can be depended on - he will be the odd man out in terms of snap count.
But no doubt Hyatt is more talented than Slayton.
His comments on how much he can rely on Wan'Dale to teach the other WRs only bolsters how much I like Wan'Dale as a player.
I knew the ability but didn't know how far along he was mentally.
Agreed. Building on Eric's point that Daboll rarely offers such effusive praise: last season was the opposite. While fans and media were (understandably) excited by Hyatt's flashes, Daboll said again and again: works hard, making progress, long way to go yet. The corollary of him saying "breaking the huddle, getting aligned, knowing what to do, I think he’s made a tremendous improvement in that area" is he didn't know what to do last year.
I agree with Eric. With usual health caveat, I think by mid season our WR room will -- for the first time in a long time - be closer to first than worst
I think Gunner sticks, which makes 5 locks in my mind with the 4 obvious ones.
Allen Robinson, McKenzie, Boykin and the rest of the depth chart right now are fighting for 1 or maybe 2 spots.
I think Gunner sticks, which makes 5 locks in my mind with the 4 obvious ones.
Allen Robinson, McKenzie, Boykin and the rest of the depth chart right now are fighting for 1 or maybe 2 spots.
Gunner could very easily make it. But I'm not sure the Giants can carry two special teams only WRs unless they carry seven WRs. I tend to learn towards Boykin.
I picked McKenzie because he has an established history of returning punts, Daboll's experience with him as an offensive player, and his ability to play the slot.
Regarding the rest of the receivers, the Giants need at least one receiver who can “play big”. There may be a battle there or maybe they just use Johnson as that receiver.
Regarding specials, I think Olszewski’s ability and value far outweighs McKenzie’s. Olszewski can return punts but I wouldn’t be surprised if he can return kickoffs better than McKenzie under the new format. Olszewski’s ability to gain 10+ yards consistently on punt returns and occasionally break a big one outweighs McKenzie’s ability to gain 20+ yards on a kickoff return which may not even be possible for him in the new format. McKenzie’s best position to start the year may be on the practice squad. Other than deciding between those 2 players, the 5 or 6 spot WRs should be the best gunners, although the “gunners” on the kickoff unit may not have the same role as before.
Heavy pass offenses have been around for decades. Air Coryell, run and shoot, etc.....not a lot of SB winners without some productive run game balance. Plenty of nice regular season teams though.
IMO, the 2 best WRs on the team are Nabers and Robinson
Next is Slayton and, IMO, until Hyatt can be depended on - he will be the odd man out in terms of snap count.
These are numbers Eric on Li and pulled a few weeks ago re: Robinson in 2023. The big question in terms of impact for Robinson will be whether he's the dump off guy again and whether he can increase his YAC.
Robinson's 4.8 YAC put him at 70th in the league. He got a lot of looks and didn't do a lot of damage with them. I suspect Nabers will be the guy who gets a lot of those looks and does more damage with them.
All things equal with health, this is my guess in order of targets and yards
Targets: Nabers, Robinson, Slayton, Hyatt
Yards: Nabers, Slyaton, Hyatt, Robinson
How would you define balance?
Well as we know Detroit and San Francisco didn't win the Super Bowl.
Would you be comfortable setting the definition of "high" at top 10 in the league across those categories?
This is the most potential and talent the overall WR group has had since Nicks, Cruz and Manningham.
If you actually look at the run game in the SB you will see something that was a lot different than the regular season and had a big impact on the QB.
Who is Galloway?
Do you mean most Super Bowl winning teams had "productive run game balance" during the Super Bowl itself or in the games leading up to the Super Bowl?
Regardless, I'm not sure what Detroit and San Francisco have to do with it.
:-)
Hoping Nabers, Robinson and Hyatt are far away from that awful trio and closer to Nicks, Cruz and Manningham.
this wont happen with DJ at QB.
what constitutes a big year?
i put over/under at 800 for Nabors.
600 for Slayton.
500 for robinson/hyatt.
i expect 2022 game plans with DJ at QB. run the ball, short passing game, QB run game, and make it a close game in the 4th.
Regarding the rest of the receivers, the Giants need at least one receiver who can “play big”. There may be a battle there or maybe they just use Johnson as that receiver.
Regarding specials, I think Olszewski’s ability and value far outweighs McKenzie’s. Olszewski can return punts but I wouldn’t be surprised if he can return kickoffs better than McKenzie under the new format. Olszewski’s ability to gain 10+ yards consistently on punt returns and occasionally break a big one outweighs McKenzie’s ability to gain 20+ yards on a kickoff return which may not even be possible for him in the new format. McKenzie’s best position to start the year may be on the practice squad. Other than deciding between those 2 players, the 5 or 6 spot WRs should be the best gunners, although the “gunners” on the kickoff unit may not have the same role as before.
In this scenario, McKenzie would not be thee kick returner. It would be one of the running backs.
this wont happen with DJ at QB.
what constitutes a big year?
i put over/under at 800 for Nabors.
600 for Slayton.
500 for robinson/hyatt.
i expect 2022 game plans with DJ at QB. run the ball, short passing game, QB run game, and make it a close game in the 4th.
They are not going to run that kind of offense with these wide receivers.
Quote:
the giants are not going to have.3-4 WR have big years.
this wont happen with DJ at QB.
what constitutes a big year?
i put over/under at 800 for Nabors.
600 for Slayton.
500 for robinson/hyatt.
i expect 2022 game plans with DJ at QB. run the ball, short passing game, QB run game, and make it a close game in the 4th.
They are not going to run that kind of offense with these wide receivers.
they said that last year with waller. ..
if you go to vegas i doubt my over unders are that wrong.
Jones is the question mark. If healthy, he should get to 500 attempts and likely 350 completions based on past performance but he has never really had someone this talented to throw to. Will they get on same page quickly? I think Jones is going to need to for his own sake.
Quote:
In comment 16540489 bigbluewillrise said:
Quote:
the giants are not going to have.3-4 WR have big years.
this wont happen with DJ at QB.
what constitutes a big year?
i put over/under at 800 for Nabors.
600 for Slayton.
500 for robinson/hyatt.
i expect 2022 game plans with DJ at QB. run the ball, short passing game, QB run game, and make it a close game in the 4th.
They are not going to run that kind of offense with these wide receivers.
they said that last year with waller. ..
if you go to vegas i doubt my over unders are that wrong.
They didn't run that type of offense last year so why would they run it this year when they have upgraded the WRs even further and said good-bye to Saquon. Use your head.
Much like the previous year, they threw the ball short a lot and presumably were looking for the pass catchers to do the damage after catch.
This makes total sense. This is the offense Kansas City runs. They were 31st in the league in air yards per attempt last year, and have been in the bottom 3rd of the NFL the last few years.
One of the the things that sets Nabers apart from the other two top 10 receivers is his elite YAC ability. He turns catches into punt returns. I suspect that will be a big part of the offensive plan.
What I don't expect to see is the Giants to air it out like the Bills.
@rydunleavy
Fun moment here at #Giants100 event
Brian Daboll was talking about Malik Nabers. A fan broke silence by yelling ‘Throw the ball downfield!’
Daboll made the guy stand up and say it again.
‘You got it,’ Daboll said
Much like the previous year, they threw the ball short a lot and presumably were looking for the pass catchers to do the damage after catch.
This makes total sense. This is the offense Kansas City runs. They were 31st in the league in air yards per attempt last year, and have been in the bottom 3rd of the NFL the last few years.
One of the the things that sets Nabers apart from the other two top 10 receivers is his elite YAC ability. He turns catches into punt returns. I suspect that will be a big part of the offensive plan.
What I don't expect to see is the Giants to air it out like the Bills.
Good points - using Hyatt and Slayton to pull the safeties deep and hit Nabers and Wan'Dale (perhaps TE Johnson) underneath the safeties and over the LBs(?).
Much like the previous year, they threw the ball short a lot and presumably were looking for the pass catchers to do the damage after catch.
This makes total sense. This is the offense Kansas City runs. They were 31st in the league in air yards per attempt last year, and have been in the bottom 3rd of the NFL the last few years.
One of the the things that sets Nabers apart from the other two top 10 receivers is his elite YAC ability. He turns catches into punt returns. I suspect that will be a big part of the offensive plan.
What I don't expect to see is the Giants to air it out like the Bills.
I fully expect them to use the short passing game. However, that's not the point raised above about them reverting back to the 2022 offense that was largely based on Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley running the ball. If anyone recalls, they were forced to do this because the of the mess they had at WR that year.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
I don't believe a 22 is replicable. It worked because of a resurgent SB and DJ taking off quickly. No SB and teams stopped DJ from running.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
While part of the failure was on DJs slow(no) read capability, a LOT of it had to do with no, and I mean no, offensive line. Clearly, if not the worst oline in NFL history, than one of the worst. It got a bit better after about 10 games, but not much.
I don't expect a miracle to happen and Jones becomes a top 10 QB. But I also do not think he will be completely useless.
2021: 171 passing, 90 rushing
2022: 170 passing, 150 rushing (62 SB, 57 DJ)
2023: 141 passing, 97 rushing
Of NYG's 170 passing first downs in 2022, 123 were from WRs.
Of NYG's 141 passing first downs in 2023, 87 were from WRs.
Giants have added one guy (Nabers) and are hoping for a jump from another guy (Hyatt).
The 141 passing first downs in 2023 were lowest for NYG since 1998. Nowhere to go but up.
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In comment 16540489 bigbluewillrise said:
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the giants are not going to have.3-4 WR have big years.
this wont happen with DJ at QB.
what constitutes a big year?
i put over/under at 800 for Nabors.
600 for Slayton.
500 for robinson/hyatt.
i expect 2022 game plans with DJ at QB. run the ball, short passing game, QB run game, and make it a close game in the 4th.
They are not going to run that kind of offense with these wide receivers.
they said that last year with waller. ..
if you go to vegas i doubt my over unders are that wrong.
Oh please. What was supposed to be in 2023 is fucking meaningless. Pick another hill do die on.
8, 7.6, 7.2, 6.4
Every offensive coach who has worked with him after the 2019 season has progressively asked him to throw the ball shorter and shorter, and ostensibly get the ball out faster.
Of course this could be the function of pass protection, but we shouldn't ignore the possibility coaches recognize the longer Jones stays in the pocket the higher chance something bad happens.
And I don't think we should ignore the possibility the plus skill Jones has exhibited is straight line run speed. Which is typically the first thing a player recovers after an ACL injury.
I won't be surprised if the offense still has major components of get the ball out quick otherwise take off.
they tried to make DJ into a full fledged QB operating in a pass first offense, he failed, he couldnt do it.
they might give him another shot i guess, but i think they will realize their best chance to win will be 2022 game plan but with more YAC ability on the field to produce more big plays but still fudamentally a limited pass game, short game with yac with nabors/robinson and some occasional shots to hyatt.
This Daniel Jones stuff has gone way too far in the other direction.
You're either deliberately misrepresenting what happened or have a terrible memory.
Waller was healthy most of the summer. Right before the season started, he pulled his hamstring again. So he wasn't the player he was in the summer. On New York's first drive, the Giants easily drove down field into the redzone. Andrew Thomas jumps offsides, there is a bad snap, and then the field goal gets blocked and Andrew Thomas is lost for the first half of the year. The OL completely falls apart. Other injuries hit the OL and at one point we had a line where the combined experience level was practically zero. Jones hurts his neck, when he comes back, he tears his ACL.
And somehow you've turned this into "well, they can't run a normal offense."