Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
#Giants planning to use Isaiah Simmons as first- and second-down nickel back, as per a pre-draft video with Shane Bowen and scouts shown at #Giants100 Night with Legends
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Biggest reveal from Hard Knocks teaser tonight: Shane Bowen has big plans for Isaiah Simmons. #Giants100
his last year in AZ he played 409 slot snaps, more than any other position and it was his best ranked full time season other than his year with NYG. he had a pretty decent number of splash plays that year with 4 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints.
i dont think you want him covering small/shifty slot players, but i would imagine playing there in zone heavier like bowens is more feasible than a more man heavy scheme (like wink).
There's a niche.
It's running around very fast and lost, then almost always late to making the play. He fits it perfectly, but it doesn't fit football very well.
He appears to process defensive plays as well as we-know-who processes offensive plays.
Might be Nick McCloud who has taken snaps at "ILB" = so
dime basically.
So much so that Witten career on Dallas would be different
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IDK if they'll ever find a niche he fits into
There's a niche.
It's running around very fast and lost, then almost always late to making the play. He fits it perfectly, but it doesn't fit football very well.
He appears to process defensive plays as well as we-know-who processes offensive plays.
Youd think there would be a special teams role for him.
Van Pelt was a safety at MSU, so that makes sense.
Now Simmons prefers to play safety..
Haha, yeah. I thought he played well last year.
Have fantasy teams....and look at stats sheets.
Simmons shut down several TEs last year, and considering the Giants never did that well. I was very impressed.
My rule on BBI....
I offer my opinion. Do not bother with many of the posters.....and limit my battles and disregard most
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IDK if they'll ever find a niche he fits into
There's a niche.
It's running around very fast and lost, then almost always late to making the play. He fits it perfectly, but it doesn't fit football very well.
That is likely a coaching/scheme issue. Define his role wirhin the scheme and he can free up an edge defender to to spill or use more of his pass rush tools.
Better Simmons than having Thibodeaux in coverage like Martindale would do.
I keep thinking about whether they play 3 DTs or McFadden or a 3rd S or a 3rd CB
The answer is probably yes to all 3 in different situations s
But if this is our base defense - it is significant
@art_stapleton
Ryder Anderson and Boogie Basham also mentioned by Bowen in the teaser as players up front that he wants to see if they can be productive in roles.
@JordanRaanan
The plan for Isaiah Simmons heading into the season will be to use him as first and second down nickel and in a third down position new DC Shane Bowen called “money.” This was revealed when a Hard Knocks preview clip was shown last night at Giants 100.
@art_stapleton
Joe Schoen revealed tonight that NFL Films grants Giants final say on things that may be edited out of Hard Knocks for competitive reasons heading into the 2024 season. So it will be interesting to see what makes the cut.
Sums it up perfectly.
@JordanRaanan
The plan for Isaiah Simmons heading into the season will be to use him as first and second down nickel and in a third down position new DC Shane Bowen called “money.” This was revealed when a Hard Knocks preview clip was shown last night at Giants 100.
Raanan:
I'm guessing this is like a "moneybacker" we've seen before. That is basically a combination or linebacker and strong safety.
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Especially if a conventional interpretation of “slot” is being used. Simmons is a straight -line player . He doesn’t slide or change direction well. As to the immediate comment above , BVP was the best Giant OLB I saw (better than Banks) covering TEs . Brad could have played slot cover . And that’s at 6-5 245 . But not Simmons . He’s like a shirt that you have hanging in the closet . You know it’s going to work for some occasion. But you never really figure out which one .
Better Simmons than having Thibodeaux in coverage like Martindale would do.
Bowen does it, too. Plus you are comparing different positions. Simmons isn't a true DE/OLB "Edge" or a natural linebacker (he cannot run defend). Safety hybrid is probably his best role moving forward with hints of blitzing. He can move, for sure but he has no flow to his game at all.
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he's on the field, but if it's 3rd down nickel he's on the sideline?
Raanan:
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The plan for Isaiah Simmons heading into the season will be to use him as first and second down nickel and in a third down position new DC Shane Bowen called “money.”
I'm guessing this is like a "moneybacker" we've seen before. That is basically a combination or linebacker and strong safety.
Alabama uses the term:
“The Star really is the Sam, so he wanted an s-word for that position. When you put six guys in the game, whether it's a sub linebacker or a sixth defensive back, we had nickel, dime, dollar. Different money terms.”
The sixth defensive back takes the place of the weak inside linebacker.
“But when you talk to players, you can say, 'Look, these linebackers on the team are all going to play Money. These DBs on the team are going to learn how to play Money,'” Saban said.
“Because when it comes to the assignments of the defense, the position is the same. It's just they've got four wideouts in there now, so the linebacker can't cover, so we put another DB in there. That make sense?
“So we just started calling that the Money position. It could be nickel, dime or dollar. That was Bill's sort of system, but it made lots of sense to me. Just like everything else we did, we categorized things for the players. I think it made it better for the players.”
Alabama defense 101: nickel = Star, dime = Money, DBs = LBs - ( New Window )
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Especially if a conventional interpretation of “slot” is being used. Simmons is a straight -line player . He doesn’t slide or change direction well. As to the immediate comment above , BVP was the best Giant OLB I saw (better than Banks) covering TEs . Brad could have played slot cover . And that’s at 6-5 245 . But not Simmons . He’s like a shirt that you have hanging in the closet . You know it’s going to work for some occasion. But you never really figure out which one .
Better Simmons than having Thibodeaux in coverage like Martindale would do.
From what I've read of Bowens, he drops his edges back into coverage at times also
I'm dubious about this as well. While it makes some sense to use LS as a slot DB v teams that put their TE there, if they're going to play mostly zone, it doesn't matter who LS lines up across from. Good OC's will be able to target smaller faster WR's in his zone.
I guess Bowen's thinking is to get a bigger body on the field on early downs to help with run defense, but it's not like Simmons exactly shines in that area. That said, Bowen's a smart guy, we'll find out how well it works.
Having said that a hybrid safety is probably his best position
We can only hope he plays well for the Giants
Not being negative only telling it like I see it.
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In comment 16540537 RetroJint said:
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Especially if a conventional interpretation of “slot” is being used. Simmons is a straight -line player . He doesn’t slide or change direction well. As to the immediate comment above , BVP was the best Giant OLB I saw (better than Banks) covering TEs . Brad could have played slot cover . And that’s at 6-5 245 . But not Simmons . He’s like a shirt that you have hanging in the closet . You know it’s going to work for some occasion. But you never really figure out which one .
Better Simmons than having Thibodeaux in coverage like Martindale would do.
From what I've read of Bowens, he drops his edges back into coverage at times also
Could still be a positive if Simmons lowers the total. Not sure if there was a Titans Lb/S in this role in the past that we could look to.
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IDK if they'll ever find a niche he fits into
There's a niche.
It's running around very fast and lost, then almost always late to making the play. He fits it perfectly, but it doesn't fit football very well.
He appears to process defensive plays as well as we-know-who processes offensive plays.
Funny. Carl Banks broke down some Simmons film last week and talked about what an instinctive player he is.
Hard Knocks teaser - ( New Window )
Having said that a hybrid safety is probably his best position
We can only hope he plays well for the Giants
Not being negative only telling it like I see it.
Carl Banks thinks differently. Like completely the opposite.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, this all screams "instinctive player" and "star."
They are trying to find something for him to do. I question whether he even makes the team out of preseason.
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Everyone loves his athletic abilities for sure
Having said that a hybrid safety is probably his best position
We can only hope he plays well for the Giants
Not being negative only telling it like I see it.
Carl Banks thinks differently. Like completely the opposite. Link - ( New Window )
Carl had nice things to say on a piece that was produced for Giants.com? NFW!
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Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
The plan for Isaiah Simmons heading into the season will be to use him as first and second down nickel and in a third down position new DC Shane Bowen called “money.” This was revealed when a Hard Knocks preview clip was shown last night at Giants 100.
This is interesting, but I don't recall this having been reported in Mini-camp or OTAs. I guess maybe we'll see in training camp.
It has. See this report.
June 6, 2024 New York Giants OTA Practice Report - ( New Window )
Having said that a hybrid safety is probably his best position
We can only hope he plays well for the Giants
Not being negative only telling it like I see it.
i dont agree with this. the problem isn't the instincts, it's finding a position that fits those instincts.
his instincts are more that of a DB but his body is the size of a LB or edge. he is too big to have the range/change of direction of an NFL DB but doesn't have the stoutness or instincts of a traditional ILB.
he is a good blitzer and good at coverage TEs/RBs, which is why DCs continue trying to find roles within defenses for him. Last year he actually graded out as one of the better players on the defense by PFF in a mostly coverage role. the problem was that the defense rarely got opposing teams into 3rd/long type situations.
You're confusing nickel corner with a nickel backer.
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he's on the field, but if it's 3rd down nickel he's on the sideline?
Raanan:
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The plan for Isaiah Simmons heading into the season will be to use him as first and second down nickel and in a third down position new DC Shane Bowen called “money.”
I'm guessing this is like a "moneybacker" we've seen before. That is basically a combination or linebacker and strong safety.
Exactly.
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In comment 16540582 Eric from BBI said:
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It has. See this report. June 6, 2024 New York Giants OTA Practice Report - ( New Window )
Things like Patterson working with the E/Rs so interior and outside line play will be coordinated: different usage of IDL; different usage of DBs (4 high vs single high) and a totally different philosophy between Wink and Bowen.
I was thinking when Spags came and how for 2 3/4 games the defense was terrible as the players tried to "figure out" their responsibilities. Wouldn't be surprised if it is the same, especially with reduced camp time.
We may be jumping off buildings the first 3 games...
On a team with a thin roster,having a versatile player with athleticism isn't a bad thing. Let's see what they can come up with for him. And I agree...having him cover anyone is better than the countless Edge dropbacks web have been subjected to the past few years.
Things like Patterson working with the E/Rs so interior and outside line play will be coordinated: different usage of IDL; different usage of DBs (4 high vs single high) and a totally different philosophy between Wink and Bowen.
I was thinking when Spags came and how for 2 3/4 games the defense was terrible as the players tried to "figure out" their responsibilities. Wouldn't be surprised if it is the same, especially with reduced camp time.
We may be jumping off buildings the first 3 games...
the scheme difference is overrated (both wink and bowen are direct descendants of dean pees, who daboll coached with in NE) and it sounds like bowen plans to use simmons in the same role wink used him in.
patterson said in an interview during the spring he's teaching things exactly the same way.
the difference in playcalling, fewer blitzes, and more zone than man will be noticeable changes, but scheme wise this is probably close to as similar as a change can be with an external hire.