I'll gladly debate football with you. For starters, what does Maye have to do with how Terps and I feel about Daniel Jones?
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
The point is that when some fans want the Giants to cut ties with Jones, that's allegedly bad fandom.
Quote:
I am not rooting for Daniel Jones
Go Terps : 11:28 am : link : reply
If the Giants built the offense around Parris Campbell and gave him $160M we'd all want them to acknowledge the error and move on. For some reason that doesn't apply to young Daniel.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Exactly. No one hates Jones and no one is rooting for him to fail. He's done that all on his own.
And no matter how the Giants really feel about him, they keep voting with their actions.
People already changed the tone of thread by calling out what others should and should not be rooting for.
That is not what happened.
No, that's literally what happened. One of BBI's resident twerps offered that up fives posts into thread. Which turned the direction of the conversation.
wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
Where passion is present, so is the real possibility of hate.
Many fans are quite passionate about sports. If a fan sees a particular player as being in the way of them enjoying their sport(s) then I can realistically see them actually 'hating' a player. The thing is, most would not dare admit it.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
I do agree that critiquing a player does not necessarily mean hating a player. I also think the labeling of hate goes too far and is often over-used. Each fan knows if their dislike of a player has drifted into actually hating them or not.
wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
no Giants fan rooted for the Giants to lose. Why? Because college football wasn't on every station and the majority of fans didn't know most eligible draftees or the great players. And we loved our team regardless of their record. Sure we got pissed. I lost sleep many nights and went to work mad for a few days.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Life is too short to hope for next year or the year after. Some of us won't be on the planet next year. Too bad we can't all act like HopeJ. I will root for the Giants and DJ8 to win no matter what. And I'm not wasting my bosses time since I'm retired. I'm going to go play with my grandson since this palace is so freakin divisive and negative.
At least I don't lose sleep anymore or act like a fool over a game I don't have any control over.
By the way, I remember when we (BBI) drove off Kent Grahams family. Was it this bad then?! I don't know. No wonder BB56 stays away from here so often.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
That's fair, and you're right, my apologies.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
That's fair, and you're right, my apologies.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
You and I are always good, you are one of my favorite BBIers and I thoroughly respect you and your knowledge of football.
against him have a weird obsession with wanting to be "right."
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Apparently life isn't too short to make excuses for a QB drafted #6 overall who is going to cost $47 million against the cap this year.
What available QBs would you have drafted last year?
What available QB would you have drafted in 2023?
What are your credentials to make the evaluation?
Why should I trust your judgment?
Did you play college football, perhaps you played QB?
What are the metrics that you use to evaluate a QB?
This is all b...t
I can't stand hearing armchair QBs who have no clue talking as if they are experts. You know more than the coaches, more than the GM.
Aren't you the one who contended that Taylor was a better QB than Jones?
Didn't you say that the Giants should sign Wilson?
I am not defending Jones but there are worse options out there. I hope that Jones turns it around and has a great year. I hope that the Giants win the Super Bowl.
I've been wrong on some, right on others. There's a search function that allows you to go back in the archives if you want to read my past posts. If you agree with my opinions, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too.
But there is one key thing that is absolutely not a matter of opinion: for the last decade the Giants have been one of the very worst run organizations in the league. I believe the Giants' unconditional love for young Daniel is just the latest in a long line of symptoms telling us what the disease infecting the Giants is: incompetent ownership.
against him have a weird obsession with wanting to be "right."
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
They were never cutting ties with Solder. His family situation was too public.
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
That is an understandable position. Personally, I think the term 'hate' gets used too often to describe things we simply don't like, BUT that is neither here or there and only my POV.
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
Fair. Two questions, then.
1) What is that level, in your estimation?
2) Do you think the Giants would view my hypothetical numbers the same way you do?
On the latter, I have my doubts. That's why this conversation matters. I believe that as an organization they would see that as enough improvement coming off ACL surgery to give him another year - and that I would absolutely hate.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
Insults are the primary tool of the defeated. That and changing your handle as often as necessary to dodge accountability for being consistently dead wrong.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
resume of any QB that has been an unchallenged starter for 5 straight seasons (about to become 6) with the team that draft him.
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
resume of any QB that has been an unchallenged starter for 5 straight seasons (about to become 6) with the team that draft him.
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
Exactly. I would expect HardTruth to be educating this board as we go forward with FACTS comparing quarterbacks with 60 or more starts in NFL history. Not emotional pleas, laughable insults or trolling nonsense. I think you will be hard pressed to find any other quarterback in NFL history who has performed as poorly as DJ has given a six year starting runway and seemingly limitless "scholarship" support to try to achieve success in this league.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
93 Scott Mitchell 75.28
94 Steve Bono 75.27
95 Tim Couch 75.14
96 Norm Van Brocklin* 75.07
97 Sid Luckman* 75.01
98 Vinny Testaverde 75.00
99 Chris Miller 74.93
100 David Carr 74.89
101 Don Meredith 74.84
102 Brian Sipe 74.79
103 Jake Plummer 74.61
104 Roman Gabriel 74.29
105T Gus Frerotte 74.24
105T Steve DeBerg 74.24
107 Earl Morrall 74.09
108 Kerry Collins 73.76
109 Y.A. Tittle* 73.65
110 Craig Morton 73.52
111 Rodney Peete 73.30
112 Don Majkowski 72.95
113T Daryle Lamonica 72.94
113T Greg Landry 72.94
115 Ron Jaworski 72.78
116 Tommy Kramer 72.77
117 Tony Banks 72.36
118 Bubby Brister 72.28
119 John Brodie 72.27
120 Milt Plum 72.22
121 Sammy Baugh* 72.21
122 Billy Wade 72.19
123 Mark Sanchez 71.70
124 Jay Schroeder 71.68
125 Billy Kilmer 71.56
126 Bill Munson 71.49
127 Rex Grossman 71.36
128 Lynn Dickey 70.94
129 Terry Bradshaw* 70.92
130 Kordell Stewart 70.69
131 Bill Nelsen 70.25
132 Trent Dilfer 70.18
133 Vince Ferragamo 70.08
134 Steve Grogan 69.61
135 Kyle Boller 69.54
136 Doug Williams 69.39
137 Joey Harrington 69.38
138 Charley Johnson 69.21
139 Mike Tomczak 68.91
140 Eric Hipple 68.68
141 Joe Ferguson 68.45
142 Charlie Conerly 68.25
143 Dave Brown 67.89
144 Billy Joe Tolliver 67.74
145 Marc Wilson 67.70
146 Tom Flores 67.58
147 Richard Todd 67.57
148 Jim Plunkett 67.45
149 John Hadl 67.41
150 Jim Zorn 67.28
151 Archie Manning 67.10
152 Jim Hart 66.56
153 Norm Snead 65.54
154 Joe Namath* 65.46
155 Rick Mirer 63.53
156 Bobby Layne* 63.38
157 Jack Trudeau 63.32
158 Mike Livingston 63.27
159 Mike Pagel 63.26
160 Ed Brown 62.77
161 Mark Malone 61.89
162 Bob Waterfield* 61.58
163 Eddie LeBaron 61.43
164 George Blanda* 60.65
165 Babe Parilli 59.59
166 Dan Pastorini 59.06
167 Jack Kemp 57.35
168 Tobin Rote 56.79
169 Cotton Davidson 54.88
170 Mike Phipps 52.63
171 Frank Tripucka
In comment 16544371 4xchamps said:
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
The unanswerable question (and the reason JS and co. kept DJ) is:
If DJ was drafted by the Eagles, 49ers, Miami,…would he be on your ‘good QB’ list while we lament being stuck with Hurts, Purdy, or Tua?
I get it that you hate Daniel Jones.
And now you hate the Giant's management.
If they do not build a team to your standards they are all idiots.
Winning is no longer your litmus test.
You are not old enough to remember how Sims was vilified or that many fans wanted to dispose of Eli.
They hated Phil and Eli, and they blamed management.
This reaction is cyclical. Losing breeds discontent.
What makes this different is that I have never heard a Giants fan root for losses specifically to facilitate the removal of a player.
While fans criticized players they universally hoped for improvement. They wanted wins at any cost. That was how you valued your team.
This has become personal and even if Jones had an MVP year you would be disappointed call it a flake and want a new QB.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback. It's easy for you to ask whether I'd hate him if he won the Super Bowl, won MVP, or cured cancer. His odds of doing any of the three are the same, and we'll never get an answer to that hypothetical question.
I'll say again I don't hate Jones. I actually respect him and his agent for taking advantage of the idiots running this team. Jones has turned meager NFL abilities into a fortune. He was not recruited coming out of high school, and he wasn't particularly good in college...but he parlayed that into a lot of money. He's an inspiration for untalented people that are willing to work hard.
I did not compare Jones to either Eli or Sims.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
The point is that when some fans want the Giants to cut ties with Jones, that's allegedly bad fandom.
Go Terps : 11:28 am : link : reply
If the Giants built the offense around Parris Campbell and gave him $160M we'd all want them to acknowledge the error and move on. For some reason that doesn't apply to young Daniel.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
I almost feel bad for you when you fall for it. Next time champ!
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
They don't have one now, so why the hell wouldn't they try to find one?
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Exactly. No one hates Jones and no one is rooting for him to fail. He's done that all on his own.
And no matter how the Giants really feel about him, they keep voting with their actions.
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People already changed the tone of thread by calling out what others should and should not be rooting for.
That is not what happened.
No, that's literally what happened. One of BBI's resident twerps offered that up fives posts into thread. Which turned the direction of the conversation.
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
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Has admitted in the past rooting against jones and for the Giants to lose with him as QB.
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
You can include me in that as well.
I'd much rather the Giants win 2 games than 7.
Not what I saiid or what I think you want to believe.
If Jones magically turned into a MVP leading us to a SB this year - I would imagine you be very excited, cheering him on, and giving him compliments.
Go Terps has openly rooted for him to fail. There’s a big diffeeence no matter however he tries to spin it.
Many fans are quite passionate about sports. If a fan sees a particular player as being in the way of them enjoying their sport(s) then I can realistically see them actually 'hating' a player. The thing is, most would not dare admit it.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
I do agree that critiquing a player does not necessarily mean hating a player. I also think the labeling of hate goes too far and is often over-used. Each fan knows if their dislike of a player has drifted into actually hating them or not.
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Life is too short to hope for next year or the year after. Some of us won't be on the planet next year. Too bad we can't all act like HopeJ. I will root for the Giants and DJ8 to win no matter what. And I'm not wasting my bosses time since I'm retired. I'm going to go play with my grandson since this palace is so freakin divisive and negative.
At least I don't lose sleep anymore or act like a fool over a game I don't have any control over.
By the way, I remember when we (BBI) drove off Kent Grahams family. Was it this bad then?! I don't know. No wonder BB56 stays away from here so often.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
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wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
That's fair, and you're right, my apologies.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
You and I are always good, you are one of my favorite BBIers and I thoroughly respect you and your knowledge of football.
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Apparently life isn't too short to make excuses for a QB drafted #6 overall who is going to cost $47 million against the cap this year.
What available QBs would you have drafted last year?
What available QB would you have drafted in 2023?
What are your credentials to make the evaluation?
Why should I trust your judgment?
Did you play college football, perhaps you played QB?
What are the metrics that you use to evaluate a QB?
This is all b...t
I can't stand hearing armchair QBs who have no clue talking as if they are experts. You know more than the coaches, more than the GM.
Aren't you the one who contended that Taylor was a better QB than Jones?
Didn't you say that the Giants should sign Wilson?
I am not defending Jones but there are worse options out there. I hope that Jones turns it around and has a great year. I hope that the Giants win the Super Bowl.
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In comment 16544115 JT039 said:
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Has admitted in the past rooting against jones and for the Giants to lose with him as QB.
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
You can include me in that as well.
I'd much rather the Giants win 2 games than 7.
Not what I saiid or what I think you want to believe.
If Jones magically turned into a MVP leading us to a SB this year - I would imagine you be very excited, cheering him on, and giving him compliments.
Go Terps has openly rooted for him to fail. There’s a big diffeeence no matter however he tries to spin it.
My interpretation is that Terps just wants it to be obvious to ownership/management that it is time to move on.
But there is one key thing that is absolutely not a matter of opinion: for the last decade the Giants have been one of the very worst run organizations in the league. I believe the Giants' unconditional love for young Daniel is just the latest in a long line of symptoms telling us what the disease infecting the Giants is: incompetent ownership.
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against him have a weird obsession with wanting to be "right."
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
They were never cutting ties with Solder. His family situation was too public.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
This is a good post.
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What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
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Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
That is an understandable position. Personally, I think the term 'hate' gets used too often to describe things we simply don't like, BUT that is neither here or there and only my POV.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
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and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
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So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
Fair. Two questions, then.
1) What is that level, in your estimation?
2) Do you think the Giants would view my hypothetical numbers the same way you do?
On the latter, I have my doubts. That's why this conversation matters. I believe that as an organization they would see that as enough improvement coming off ACL surgery to give him another year - and that I would absolutely hate.
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In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
Insults are the primary tool of the defeated. That and changing your handle as often as necessary to dodge accountability for being consistently dead wrong.
Disregard question 1 above then. But question 2 is the more relevant one anyway.
And now you hate the Giant's management.
If they do not build a team to your standards they are all idiots.
Winning is no longer your litmus test.
You are not old enough to remember how Sims was vilified or that many fans wanted to dispose of Eli.
They hated Phil and Eli, and they blamed management.
This reaction is cyclical. Losing breeds discontent.
What makes this different is that I have never heard a Giants fan root for losses specifically to facilitate the removal of a player.
While fans criticized players they universally hoped for improvement. They wanted wins at any cost. That was how you valued your team.
This has become personal and even if Jones had an MVP year you would be disappointed call it a flake and want a new QB.
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Worst QB to ever play the position?
Guess you were fed paint chips as a child 😂😂😂
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
Exactly. I would expect HardTruth to be educating this board as we go forward with FACTS comparing quarterbacks with 60 or more starts in NFL history. Not emotional pleas, laughable insults or trolling nonsense. I think you will be hard pressed to find any other quarterback in NFL history who has performed as poorly as DJ has given a six year starting runway and seemingly limitless "scholarship" support to try to achieve success in this league.
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
93 Scott Mitchell 75.28
94 Steve Bono 75.27
95 Tim Couch 75.14
96 Norm Van Brocklin* 75.07
97 Sid Luckman* 75.01
98 Vinny Testaverde 75.00
99 Chris Miller 74.93
100 David Carr 74.89
101 Don Meredith 74.84
102 Brian Sipe 74.79
103 Jake Plummer 74.61
104 Roman Gabriel 74.29
105T Gus Frerotte 74.24
105T Steve DeBerg 74.24
107 Earl Morrall 74.09
108 Kerry Collins 73.76
109 Y.A. Tittle* 73.65
110 Craig Morton 73.52
111 Rodney Peete 73.30
112 Don Majkowski 72.95
113T Daryle Lamonica 72.94
113T Greg Landry 72.94
115 Ron Jaworski 72.78
116 Tommy Kramer 72.77
117 Tony Banks 72.36
118 Bubby Brister 72.28
119 John Brodie 72.27
120 Milt Plum 72.22
121 Sammy Baugh* 72.21
122 Billy Wade 72.19
123 Mark Sanchez 71.70
124 Jay Schroeder 71.68
125 Billy Kilmer 71.56
126 Bill Munson 71.49
127 Rex Grossman 71.36
128 Lynn Dickey 70.94
129 Terry Bradshaw* 70.92
130 Kordell Stewart 70.69
131 Bill Nelsen 70.25
132 Trent Dilfer 70.18
133 Vince Ferragamo 70.08
134 Steve Grogan 69.61
135 Kyle Boller 69.54
136 Doug Williams 69.39
137 Joey Harrington 69.38
138 Charley Johnson 69.21
139 Mike Tomczak 68.91
140 Eric Hipple 68.68
141 Joe Ferguson 68.45
142 Charlie Conerly 68.25
143 Dave Brown 67.89
144 Billy Joe Tolliver 67.74
145 Marc Wilson 67.70
146 Tom Flores 67.58
147 Richard Todd 67.57
148 Jim Plunkett 67.45
149 John Hadl 67.41
150 Jim Zorn 67.28
151 Archie Manning 67.10
152 Jim Hart 66.56
153 Norm Snead 65.54
154 Joe Namath* 65.46
155 Rick Mirer 63.53
156 Bobby Layne* 63.38
157 Jack Trudeau 63.32
158 Mike Livingston 63.27
159 Mike Pagel 63.26
160 Ed Brown 62.77
161 Mark Malone 61.89
162 Bob Waterfield* 61.58
163 Eddie LeBaron 61.43
164 George Blanda* 60.65
165 Babe Parilli 59.59
166 Dan Pastorini 59.06
167 Jack Kemp 57.35
168 Tobin Rote 56.79
169 Cotton Davidson 54.88
170 Mike Phipps 52.63
171 Frank Tripucka
Quote:
Not to a level worth keeping.
Disregard question 1 above then. But question 2 is the more relevant one anyway.
I’ll reply to this one… haha.
I hope not. IMO, the only reason to keep him is if they make a serious playoff run. Other than that - I believe the writing is on the wall.
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
If DJ was drafted by the Eagles, 49ers, Miami,…would he be on your ‘good QB’ list while we lament being stuck with Hurts, Purdy, or Tua?
And the poster NEVER once said he was better than any of those QBs. He actually said he wasn’t even top 100.
Reading is not your forte.
And now you hate the Giant's management.
If they do not build a team to your standards they are all idiots.
Winning is no longer your litmus test.
You are not old enough to remember how Sims was vilified or that many fans wanted to dispose of Eli.
They hated Phil and Eli, and they blamed management.
This reaction is cyclical. Losing breeds discontent.
What makes this different is that I have never heard a Giants fan root for losses specifically to facilitate the removal of a player.
While fans criticized players they universally hoped for improvement. They wanted wins at any cost. That was how you valued your team.
This has become personal and even if Jones had an MVP year you would be disappointed call it a flake and want a new QB.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback. It's easy for you to ask whether I'd hate him if he won the Super Bowl, won MVP, or cured cancer. His odds of doing any of the three are the same, and we'll never get an answer to that hypothetical question.
I'll say again I don't hate Jones. I actually respect him and his agent for taking advantage of the idiots running this team. Jones has turned meager NFL abilities into a fortune. He was not recruited coming out of high school, and he wasn't particularly good in college...but he parlayed that into a lot of money. He's an inspiration for untalented people that are willing to work hard.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.