The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
It is more then fair to counter that point of view and say that if they were happy with him, then they wouldn’t have tried to draft his replacement whether it be Maye or anybody else
We do not know that they tried to trade up for a QB and even if they had, it could have been more a reflection on Jones's durability than the quality of his play (coupled with the fact that if you've got the 6th pick in the draft and there's a "special" QB within your grasp, you should always explore it to the finest detail).
Do you remember the rumor about the Giants interest in McCarthy? Followed by the rumor that Schoen was upset by the rumor about McCarthy? Well, as it turned out those were obviously false rumors or the Giants would've been happy to take McCarthy when they were on the clock. But we'll be hearing about how the Giants tried to trade up for Drake Maye for the next two or three years simply because it's not a rumor that can be proven false.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
I predict that Daniel Jones will have a great year and that the Giants make the playoffs. The Giants will be the surprise team of the NFL.
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
I did not compare Jones to either Eli or Sims.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
I'd argue Jones has been treated brilliantly. You can argue he has the best salary to production ratio of any player in the NFL. Best from the player's perspective anyway.
about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
I predict that Daniel Jones will have a great year and that the Giants make the playoffs. The Giants will be the surprise team of the NFL.
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
I predict Jones will have a mediocre 2024, the offense will average around 20 PPG, and the Giants will win 5-8 games. I also predict you'll be here a year from now asking why I'm not rooting for Jones to win MVP in 2025.
about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
Yes well, speaking of saying same thing and not convincing anyone --I know you're not new to the board, so you already know this --but this whole debate which hijacked the thread and you're defending is exactly that -repetitive and no one's mind being changed, only a million times over. You must know this, right? So there's that. And no, it's not my intend to "convince everyone of posting things you don’t like". I've chosen to express my displeasure about the utter derailment of a pinned thread. I wouldn't have thought that would be taken as out of bounds or controversial, LOL.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
You realize Simms threw 18 picks and had 8 fumbles in 84 and followed that up with 20 picks and 16 fumbles in 85. He was benched in 83, correct?
No need to answer for Terps.
He's a big boy.
I get the Simms comp in terms of it took Phil a while to become the Phil who should be in Canton. But let's face it-putting aside 1984 NFL vs. 2024...that's an exception, not the norm. Most QBs are who they are by year six.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Yeah, I agree. Like again-& I know people think I'm fucking around-but I seriously hope Jones becomes a great fucking QB this fall. If he does, that sets the Giants up for real success & I really want to be seriously invested in the Giants on gameday...like living & dying on each play. Too lately over the past decade, I've found myself @ bars with one eye on the Giants game & the other on a better game between two better teams.
But I'm also a realist. I think we know what Daniel Jones is...a mediocre @ best QB that is overpaid, doesn't lift up his teammates, is often injured, & doesn't really inspire any hope with a large segment of the fan base. Sure, nice guy...hard worker...all that jazz. But do even the most fervent Jones supporters ever see him leading us to a Super Bowl?
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Good for you Shock.
Have a nice night. Just turned 5 o'clock here, so it's brewski time. Tata.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
Also the idea that GMs and coaches can never be questioned is absurdity at its highest level. Gettleman and Joe Judge are considered to be more qualified than any of us as well. Turns out they were incompetent clown shows.
I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
Yikes
There are some that are unworthy of your attention.
Simple question for the folks participating on this thread -- if the Giants are 8-9, and Jones equals his career averages in games played, yards and touchdowns created next year, would you want him back in 2025?
Simple question for the folks participating on this thread -- if the Giants are 8-9, and Jones equals his career averages in games played, yards and touchdowns created next year, would you want him back in 2025?
Simple question for the folks participating on this thread -- if the Giants are 8-9, and Jones equals his career averages in games played, yards and touchdowns created next year, would you want him back in 2025?
No, but I don’t expect the organization to agree. I fully expect him to be the opening day starter in 2025 unless he’s either injured or completely stinks in 2024.
I know, the Giants tried to draft his replacement this year, but only a very specific replacement they clearly had no realistic chance of acquiring. So I don’t actually believe they were serious about it then and I don’t believe that at the top of the organization there was (or is) any desire to do move on from Jones.
In comment 16544371 4xchamps said:
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544142 Archer said:
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What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
See, I knew you'd go that route, even though I never suggested DJ was better than any of them. I was answering your ridiculous "worst QB in history" claim and I think I did it pretty well bruh.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Your equivalent is stupid and doesn’t work. I have control over whether I’m with my wife or not. I wouldn’t sit around hoping she someday turned into a good wife. If she wasn’t a good wife, she’d be gone. The better equivalent would be your brothers wife is just a bad person but your brother loves her for some damn reason. You have no control over whether he stays with her or not but since he’s adamant that she can change you have no choice but to hope he’s somehow right and she straightens her shit out. You know it’s very unlikely to happen but you’re not the one that has the power to make that decision…
Wanting better players isn't a mortal sin. If Evan Neal has a bad season again, is it OK to want to replace him? If Azeez Ojulari has a bad season, is it OK to not want him re-signed?
Was it OK to want Waller to retire and for the Giants to cut Glowinksi?
Why is disappointment the Giants retained an unreliable quarterback such a scared cow?
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Nah it's more like you're dating a 2 but you tell all your buddies she's a 9, she just needs better make-up. And she has a great personality
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
This has become the base argument for the posters who believe in Jones. "I defer to people who are clearly smarter than me and it is stupid for anyone to question them. Questioning them is hubris!"
But when some other team signs some aged veteran to an exorbitant contract? "Hahaha, what a poorly run franchise!"
I expect these posters - because every front office and coach in the league is smarter than them - would agree that every move made by a team is a good one that should not be questioned, based only on the fact that they made that move.
What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs.
Like Daniel Jones?
That's the point. The downside isn't really that bad when you consider the binary outcome of either being good enough or not. Being worse than the status quo doesn't matter all that much if neither is good enough. What does matter is at least trying to improve the situation, and that generally means addressing it in some way besides journeymen and UDFAs.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
RE: Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and while
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
And this is what makes this six year period so painful. Gettleman literally lectured the fan base with his "smartest guy in the room" pedantry for a year and a half after being hired that "...you cannot reach for quarterbacks!" And then proceeded to do precisely that by falling in love and reaching for a middling talent like DJ with a top ten pick. Absolute insanity!
RE: Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and while
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
So the Giant's are likely going to be in that exact situation in April 25.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
I mean, Y.A. Tittle didn’t really put up great numbers until year 15 when he exploded for 33 TDs. His best seasons were years 15 and 16 so there’s still a chance here if we can just show some patience
You would think Giants fans would be very familiar with this concept. Schoen was coming off his first year, with an unexpected amount of success. He simply could have fallen for the mirage.
Mara has been willing to give GMs a few swings at coach, I hope he affords Schoen another swing at QB and they keep the coach.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.
Honestly, your premise in #2 is faulty. Phil was the best qb the Giants had since Tarkenton and it was obvious.
If the system was the same as it was 40 years ago, Jones would be a perfect candidate to stash as that backup and see if health and development conspired at some point.
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
It is more then fair to counter that point of view and say that if they were happy with him, then they wouldn’t have tried to draft his replacement whether it be Maye or anybody else
Do you remember the rumor about the Giants interest in McCarthy? Followed by the rumor that Schoen was upset by the rumor about McCarthy? Well, as it turned out those were obviously false rumors or the Giants would've been happy to take McCarthy when they were on the clock. But we'll be hearing about how the Giants tried to trade up for Drake Maye for the next two or three years simply because it's not a rumor that can be proven false.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
I'd argue Jones has been treated brilliantly. You can argue he has the best salary to production ratio of any player in the NFL. Best from the player's perspective anyway.
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
No it's too stupid to answer.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
I predict Jones will have a mediocre 2024, the offense will average around 20 PPG, and the Giants will win 5-8 games. I also predict you'll be here a year from now asking why I'm not rooting for Jones to win MVP in 2025.
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In comment 16544494 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
No it's too stupid to answer.
Come on Terps. It's an easy question. Six years? Seven?
There's also the issue of Simms being a talented quarterback and Daniel Jones not being talented.
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about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
Yes well, speaking of saying same thing and not convincing anyone --I know you're not new to the board, so you already know this --but this whole debate which hijacked the thread and you're defending is exactly that -repetitive and no one's mind being changed, only a million times over. You must know this, right? So there's that. And no, it's not my intend to "convince everyone of posting things you don’t like". I've chosen to express my displeasure about the utter derailment of a pinned thread. I wouldn't have thought that would be taken as out of bounds or controversial, LOL.
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In comment 16544494 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
You realize Simms threw 18 picks and had 8 fumbles in 84 and followed that up with 20 picks and 16 fumbles in 85. He was benched in 83, correct?
No need to answer for Terps.
He's a big boy.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
But I'm also a realist. I think we know what Daniel Jones is...a mediocre @ best QB that is overpaid, doesn't lift up his teammates, is often injured, & doesn't really inspire any hope with a large segment of the fan base. Sure, nice guy...hard worker...all that jazz. But do even the most fervent Jones supporters ever see him leading us to a Super Bowl?
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
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In comment 16544613 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Good for you Shock.
Have a nice night. Just turned 5 o'clock here, so it's brewski time. Tata.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
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Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
Also the idea that GMs and coaches can never be questioned is absurdity at its highest level. Gettleman and Joe Judge are considered to be more qualified than any of us as well. Turns out they were incompetent clown shows.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
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I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
Yikes
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In comment 16544672 christian said:
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I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
Yikes
There are some that are unworthy of your attention.
Nope
I do not
Time will tell what happens
No, but I don’t expect the organization to agree. I fully expect him to be the opening day starter in 2025 unless he’s either injured or completely stinks in 2024.
I know, the Giants tried to draft his replacement this year, but only a very specific replacement they clearly had no realistic chance of acquiring. So I don’t actually believe they were serious about it then and I don’t believe that at the top of the organization there was (or is) any desire to do move on from Jones.
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
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In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544142 Archer said:
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What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
See, I knew you'd go that route, even though I never suggested DJ was better than any of them. I was answering your ridiculous "worst QB in history" claim and I think I did it pretty well bruh.
Nice childish deflection....
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In comment 16544613 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Was it OK to want Waller to retire and for the Giants to cut Glowinksi?
Why is disappointment the Giants retained an unreliable quarterback such a scared cow?
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In comment 16544634 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544613 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Nah it's more like you're dating a 2 but you tell all your buddies she's a 9, she just needs better make-up. And she has a great personality
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Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
This has become the base argument for the posters who believe in Jones. "I defer to people who are clearly smarter than me and it is stupid for anyone to question them. Questioning them is hubris!"
But when some other team signs some aged veteran to an exorbitant contract? "Hahaha, what a poorly run franchise!"
I expect these posters - because every front office and coach in the league is smarter than them - would agree that every move made by a team is a good one that should not be questioned, based only on the fact that they made that move.
The last 3 GMs made a lot of them.
Like Daniel Jones?
That's the point. The downside isn't really that bad when you consider the binary outcome of either being good enough or not. Being worse than the status quo doesn't matter all that much if neither is good enough. What does matter is at least trying to improve the situation, and that generally means addressing it in some way besides journeymen and UDFAs.
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
And this is what makes this six year period so painful. Gettleman literally lectured the fan base with his "smartest guy in the room" pedantry for a year and a half after being hired that "...you cannot reach for quarterbacks!" And then proceeded to do precisely that by falling in love and reaching for a middling talent like DJ with a top ten pick. Absolute insanity!
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
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One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
So the Giant's are likely going to be in that exact situation in April 25.
To quote Chancellor Palpatine "Ironic"
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
I mean, Y.A. Tittle didn’t really put up great numbers until year 15 when he exploded for 33 TDs. His best seasons were years 15 and 16 so there’s still a chance here if we can just show some patience
The last 3 GMs made a lot of them.
You would think Giants fans would be very familiar with this concept. Schoen was coming off his first year, with an unexpected amount of success. He simply could have fallen for the mirage.
Mara has been willing to give GMs a few swings at coach, I hope he affords Schoen another swing at QB and they keep the coach.
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.
Quote:
In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.