1. John Michael Schmitz, C - Giants really need this one and it is fairly obvious. The second round pick really struggled as a rookie and if the interior of the OL is going to improve, he needs to be better. Things were tough all around him last year, not only was he hurt for part of the seasons, but add to that snapping to three different QBs, and playing next Bredeson/Pugh/Glowinski/McKethan/Lemieux/Mayfield. The additions of Runyan, Eluemunor, and Bricillo could make thing much easier. Bricillo has some history of developing a center with Raiders center Andre James. James entered the league as an UDFA tackle in 2019 and didn't play much his first two years. His third year (1 year before they hired Bricillo) he moved to center. Since I wasn't watching Raiders games I can't say first hand how he look, but he did start the whole year after Rodney Hudson's departure and finish with a respectable 64.1 PFF grade and only gave up 2 sacks, but had 7 penalties. His second year with Bricillo and he was up to 74.6 allowing 2 sacks and 3 penalties, he enters the year as their #10 center. Another underrated addition to help JMS is new assistant OL coach James Ferentz, a 9 year NFL center starting his NFL coaching career. Ferentz had an uphill battle in the NFL first going undrafted, then spending the year on the practice squad, then year two he was cut, but he managed to stick around as a backup for seven more years after. While he had a modest career as a backup he did manage to get two rings - one with Peyton and one with Brady.
2. Isaiah Simmons, ILB/DB - a year 5 player might be unlikely choice to "breakout", but Bowen's defense could be a good fit for his skillset to get the most out of him. When Bowen was asked how he would be used he had an interesting answer: "In our minds, he’ll be first and second down nickel, and then playing ‘money’ on third downs." This sounds very similar to what he did at Clemson where he took a lot of slot snaps. For those who aren't familiar with the money position, this is a term for the 6th DB in the dime package, which would probably be fairly similar to his role last year when he would come on in 3rd downs as a coverage LB. If he is able to carve a role in first and second downs in addition to his third down role he had some success with last year (82.7 coverage grade from PFF) he could have a big impact. Also worth noting, that Bowen also commented "our smartest position has to be inside backers" - behind Okereke there is opportunity. McFadden is the presumed starter, but there is telling what Bowen thinks of him.
Video of Bowen: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8vrgtlNNWg/?igsh=eWMwODIyM3V2c25s
3. Ryder Anderson, 3-4DE - 3-4DE is fairly absent from the roster. Perhaps Bowen doesn't see it as a big need, Jordan Phillips was the only DL added in free agency and he's more of a NT and 3 Tech, 5 tech is wide open. According to Andre Patterson, Anderson is up to 305lbs, so he would now profile as more of an inside DL than an OLB. Although the DL group was a bit light at camp with some guys rehabbing still, it is telling the Anderson was getting first team reps. Anderson grabbed 2 sacks as an UDFA rookie near the end of the year, but curiously was on the practise squad the entire season last year.
4. Jordon Riley, DL - piggy back off Anderson possibly carving out a role is Riley who enters his second season. While Anderson went from 278 to 305, Riley went from 338 to 310. Despite his limited playing time as a rookie, DL coach Andre Patterson has praised his development in multiple interviews. He even compared his being inactive to start the year to Danielle Hunter being inactive for the first few games as a rookie.
Video of Patterson: https://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1708194724362735824
5. Daniel Bellinger, TE - Waller finally retired and now Bellinger's development can get back on track. The Giants TE room was a rollercoaster this offseason. Cager was brought back on a minimum deal. Stoll and Manhertz addressed the blocking TE issue. Theo Johnson was drafted. Then Waller finally retired. His rookie year, Bellinger was the default TE1 despite being a 4th rounder, but showed promise. Year two the Giants traded for Darren Waller and lost Myarick and Sweeney to injuries. This forced Bellinger into a blocking role, which he is just average at, and his target share to plummet - his development effectively stalled. Now he's back to TE1, the Giants look poised to have the blocking TE role addressed, and his target share should bounce back. In the first 8 games last year he had just 4 targets and 4 receptions for 22 yards. Then Waller got hurt. Over the next 8 games he saw 24 targets for 21 receptions and 233 yards, which includes 3 games with Waller. Stretching that production over a full season, he'd be right at 500 yards. The Giants added Tim Kelly as TE coach. Kelly was OC of the Titans last year and has extensive experience as an NFL coach to continue his development and take his game to the next level (Daboll also former TE coach).
Others and why they weren't included:
* Evan Neal, OT - he's been talked about ad nauseum, there's nothing I can add to that conversation.
* Jalin Hyatt, WR - there's actually a bit of a logjam at WR and Hyatt probably will start the year at WR4. Since the Giants kept Slayton for an $8M cap hit when they could have saved a kit by cutting him and trusting Hyatt I didn't add him.
* Lawrence Cager, TE - he got early praise from Daboll after mini camp, but I'd hold off on jumping on that bandwagon until pads come on. Even with the Waller injury all he managed last year was 4 receptions for 36 yards.
* Cordale Flott, CB - drafting Andru Phillips and kicking Flott out wide is a head scratcher of what to expect. Flott will get his shot, but I have my doubts.
Jalin Hyatt
Jalin Hyatt
I have why I didn't include Hyatt at the Bottom, with four viable WRs I don't think he'll see enough looks to have a breakout year.
Robinson I think we already saw. He was great last year, it is everyone around him that's the problem.
I agree. I actually had Simmons on my cut candidate list earlier, but after that video I've done a 180.
Positions of need. There are holes on the DL where guys can step up. Robinson is WR4 and might not even see much playing time for awhile. Your feelings Simmons is where I am on Flott - he is a slot CB who is changing positions after two years of average play. Herndon, McCloud, or Hawkins could be starting after a few games. Simmons was directly addressed as a possible three down player by Bowen.
Bellinger should make a much bigger impact, not because he has improved (which I sure he has, plus bulging biceps), but because he will be getting more looks as a receiver and fewer as a blocker.
Cager has never made any big plays in his first three years or showed any amazing talent at TE. There is no reason to expect much improvement.
My money is on Hyatt. All he needs to do is have a few long touchdown runs in the pre-season (ala Victor Cruz against the Jets) and he will get plenty of playing time.
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Positions of need. There are holes on the DL where guys can step up. Robinson is WR4 and might not even see much playing time for awhile. Your feelings Simmons is where I am on Flott - he is a slot CB who is changing positions after two years of average play. Herndon, McCloud, or Hawkins could be starting after a few games. Simmons was directly addressed as a possible three down player by Bowen.
Hyatt is not the #4 WR. If he performs he will be an important part of the WR rotation and get at least as many snaps as Slayton. Simmons is entering his 5th year and has shown nothing yet anywhere he’s been. Flott is entering his 3rd year, won the nickel job last year and always had inside/outside flexibility. And Anderson (and I’m an IU fan) has basically been a PS player and hasn’t shown enough to be considered anything yet. Riley, yes.
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In comment 16544826 BillT said:
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Positions of need. There are holes on the DL where guys can step up. Robinson is WR4 and might not even see much playing time for awhile. Your feelings Simmons is where I am on Flott - he is a slot CB who is changing positions after two years of average play. Herndon, McCloud, or Hawkins could be starting after a few games. Simmons was directly addressed as a possible three down player by Bowen.
Hyatt is not the #4 WR. If he performs he will be an important part of the WR rotation and get at least as many snaps as Slayton. Simmons is entering his 5th year and has shown nothing yet anywhere he’s been. Flott is entering his 3rd year, won the nickel job last year and always had inside/outside flexibility. And Anderson (and I’m an IU fan) has basically been a PS player and hasn’t shown enough to be considered anything yet. Riley, yes.
Nabers, Robinson, and Slayton are all ahead of Hyatt. There is no reason to think otherwise yet. If they trusted him as much as Slayton they wouldn't be giving Slayton $8M.
Simmons was one of the best coverage linebackers in the league last year, and could now expand on that role in new ways according to Bowen. Okereke broke out last year at 27, Simmons could at 26.
Flott just lost the slot job and they're experimenting with him. He could have broken out last year but was instead replaced.
Nabers, Robinson, and Slayton are all ahead of Hyatt. There is no reason to think otherwise yet. If they trusted him as much as Slayton they wouldn't be giving Slayton $8M.
Simmons was one of the best coverage linebackers in the league last year, and could now expand on that role in new ways according to Bowen. Okereke broke out last year at 27, Simmons could at 26.
Flott just lost the slot job and they're experimenting with him. He could have broken out last year but was instead replaced.
Nabers and Robinson yes but Hyatt doesn’t play their positions. 8m is a bargain price and means nothing as far as his place on the team. He a good player and part of the WR rotation. Hyatt could easily be that, or more, as well. Being a coverage LB doesn’t mean much if that’s all you can do. So far that’s all he’s shown he can do. Flott’s issue was tackling at nickel. He’s got quality coverage skills. He wouldn’t be penciled in as a starting CB if they didn’t think highly of him.
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In comment 16544862 BillT said:
Nabers, Robinson, and Slayton are all ahead of Hyatt. There is no reason to think otherwise yet. If they trusted him as much as Slayton they wouldn't be giving Slayton $8M.
Simmons was one of the best coverage linebackers in the league last year, and could now expand on that role in new ways according to Bowen. Okereke broke out last year at 27, Simmons could at 26.
Flott just lost the slot job and they're experimenting with him. He could have broken out last year but was instead replaced.
Nabers and Robinson yes but Hyatt doesn’t play their positions. 8m is a bargain price and means nothing as far as his place on the team. He a good player and part of the WR rotation. Hyatt could easily be that, or more, as well. Being a coverage LB doesn’t mean much if that’s all you can do. So far that’s all he’s shown he can do. Flott’s issue was tackling at nickel. He’s got quality coverage skills. He wouldn’t be penciled in as a starting CB if they didn’t think highly of him.
It means they don't trust Hyatt yet. Simmons isn't playing LB on first and second downs, he'd be the big nickel (safety in the slot) according to Bowen for some formations, so still coverage. They have had multiple guys taking first team reps.
Other candidates in OP list, I really don’t see as aspiring to anything better than decent JAGs or role players. Is that considered a “breakout”?
Not sure they will be breakout players - but I'm going to keep an eye out re: the ILBs - Muasau and Adams.
Other candidates in OP list, I really don’t see as aspiring to anything better than decent JAGs or role players. Is that considered a “breakout”?
I would say going from nothing to decent starter. The example I'd use is Micah McFadden. He went from trash to a viable starter even though it was just 2 downs usually. I think the two DL guys last year were basically trash but could become starter level. Simmons could go from a 3rd down only guy to possible three down player in multiple roles.
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Wan'Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
I have why I didn't include Hyatt at the Bottom, with four viable WRs I don't think he'll see enough looks to have a breakout year.
Robinson I think we already saw. He was great last year, it is everyone around him that's the problem.
I wouldn't call Robinson's year anything special. I think he's capable of more than that.
The big question for Robinson is how will Nabers eat into the slot snaps and dump offs? Nabers was one of the more dangerous players in space in college football. He's the guy I imagine they want to get those balls to in those situations.
p.s.--As for Simmons, I wouldn't overreact to Bowen's comments about playing nickel on downs one and two and the money shot on third downs. It sounds to me like he views Simmons as the third safety when they are in their big nickel defense (3 safeties, 2 corners) on first or second down or the big dime defense (3 safeties, 3 corners) on third down. It leaves him without a role in their base defense or the more typical nickel defense (2 safeties, 3 corners). At least this is how I'm interpreting his words, I could be wrong. And if it's worth noting Bowen's comment that "our smartest position has to be inside backers," it should also be noted that no one has ever accused Simmons of being one of the smartest players on the field. Given his other worldly physical gifts, I'm guessing that difficulty with the mental side of the game is a reason for his failure to live up to expectations.
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In comment 16544802 Eric from BBI said:
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Wan'Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
I have why I didn't include Hyatt at the Bottom, with four viable WRs I don't think he'll see enough looks to have a breakout year.
Robinson I think we already saw. He was great last year, it is everyone around him that's the problem.
I wouldn't call Robinson's year anything special. I think he's capable of more than that.
Agree not anything special at face value but he flashed much more than I expected coming off a torn ACL in just year 2. I presume he progresses and we see more, I think he is already a quality player - maybe he could be an elite slot though. His ADOT was 5.3, good for 97th among qualified receivers, awful, so hopefully the OL can give the QB more time so he can get deeper.
p.s.--As for Simmons, I wouldn't overreact to Bowen's comments about playing nickel on downs one and two and the money shot on third downs. It sounds to me like he views Simmons as the third safety when they are in their big nickel defense (3 safeties, 2 corners) on first or second down or the big dime defense (3 safeties, 3 corners) on third down. It leaves him without a role in their base defense or the more typical nickel defense (2 safeties, 3 corners). At least this is how I'm interpreting his words, I could be wrong. And if it's worth noting Bowen's comment that "our smartest position has to be inside backers," it should also be noted that no one has ever accused Simmons of being one of the smartest players on the field. Given his other worldly physical gifts, I'm guessing that difficulty with the mental side of the game is a reason for his failure to live up to expectations.
They haven't even been playing Ezeudu at guard with the second team, so until we see that I presume he isn't challenging for starter.
Bowen said Simmons isn't playing ILB on first and second downs, his roles would be big nickel.
Simmons showed a spark of the player he was meant to be last year, and Bowen talked about him specifically - as far as the Giants are concerned, he's a 7th rounder with upside.
We don't need yet another thread that devolves into a Jones mud slinging contest, it is boring.
(I also think that McLoud is better than people give him credit for)
But, if I’m being honest, I’m concerned about the other outside CB spot.
(I also think that McLoud is better than people give him credit for)
But, if I’m being honest, I’m concerned about the other outside CB spot.
Do you have anything to support this? He has played an extremely limited number of snaps outside. They replaced him in the slot last year with Jackson until Hawkins failed. He was benched as a rookie for Holmes in the slot. Now he's replaced a third time, they seem intent on finding anyone but him.
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I am hopeful that he will continue to develop as a solid #2.
(I also think that McLoud is better than people give him credit for)
But, if I’m being honest, I’m concerned about the other outside CB spot.
Do you have anything to support this? He has played an extremely limited number of snaps outside. They replaced him in the slot last year with Jackson until Hawkins failed. He was benched as a rookie for Holmes in the slot. Now he's replaced a third time, they seem intent on finding anyone but him.
Yes, watching him play.
A game that really impressed me was they had in one-on-one with AJ Brown a lot in one of the Philly games. Despite the huge size advantage, Flott matched up very well against him.
Flott vs AJ Brown - ( New Window )
1 play...
We disagree
You called bullshit on me and I spent time finding and sending a video
You can still disagree with me but no need to be an asshole about it
We disagree
You called bullshit on me and I spent time finding and sending a video
You can still disagree with me but no need to be an asshole about it
"Quick Google search" - we can have a discussion without making ourselves martyrs. Either it was a quick search or you took time out of your night, or I'm an asshole. Respond on your own time or don't respond, but don't be a victim. I wasn't an asshole or intendinging to be one, I responded with a simple fact about your reply.
Bowen said Simmons isn't playing ILB on first and second downs, his roles would be big nickel.
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Bowen said Simmons isn't playing ILB on first and second downs, his roles would be big nickel.
Yes, I know, so then why did you bring up Bowen's comment about inside backers when discussing Simmons as a breakout candidate?
It is labeled ILB/DB
PFT had him as the 13th ranked center as a rookie last season. That's a pretty good rookie year.
Of course, I'm not taking PFF's ranking as gospel either. But they had him rated very poorly.
PFF ranks 2024 C's - ( New Window )
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In comment 16544813 Blue Dog said:
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In comment 16544802 Eric from BBI said:
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Wan'Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
I have why I didn't include Hyatt at the Bottom, with four viable WRs I don't think he'll see enough looks to have a breakout year.
Robinson I think we already saw. He was great last year, it is everyone around him that's the problem.
I wouldn't call Robinson's year anything special. I think he's capable of more than that.
Agree not anything special at face value but he flashed much more than I expected coming off a torn ACL in just year 2. I presume he progresses and we see more, I think he is already a quality player - maybe he could be an elite slot though. His ADOT was 5.3, good for 97th among qualified receivers, awful, so hopefully the OL can give the QB more time so he can get deeper.
I agree that the eye test with Robinson said to me he that he progressed nicely last season as he healed. He showed the kind of upper tier quickness that creates problems for defenses.
As we have all been saying - The WR group and the pass rush gives us reason to be excited.
While JMS needs to raise his game, I don't feel he struggled per se -- he was part of the problem, but not the root of it. With solid guard play in '23, the narrative around him now would be different: a rookie who displayed precisely the traits (good and bad) his was profiled with. Along with experience he needs added bulk. Like about 90% of NFL rookies do. Guys are just bigger and stronger at this level.
Not sure how you define breakout. If it's going from ? to above average, I'd list candidates as JMS, Hyatt, Pinnock, Flott and Simmons.
If it's being in the national conversation as one of the better players at their position, I'd say WDR, Nabers and KT.
Any of the young DL candidates (including Basham) could join the group (and at least one better) but there's no data yet.
JMS had to block Dexter Lawrence all summer last year. That was his first taste of the NFL. That's probably not going to build your confidence.
I personally agree with the above comments though - I was generally OK with his performance - I thought it was his run blocking that looked really bad at times. He did not look capable of the outside zone. The reach block. It's the toughest block a C is asked to make and he isn't good at it. And it was Barkley's best play.
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Schmitz struggled as the Giants' starting center in his rookie 2023 season, earning the lowest overall grade at the position, as well as the worst pass-blocking grade. The environment around him wasn’t ideal, and the Giants will hope that their former second-round pick can improve in Year 2.
Of course, I'm not taking PFF's ranking as gospel either. But they had him rated very poorly. PFF ranks 2024 C's - ( New Window )
I'm referring to this:
PFF 2023 Centers Rankings - ( New Window )
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I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Schmitz was rated the worst overall C in the league by PFF last year, as well as the worst pass blocker.
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Schmitz struggled as the Giants' starting center in his rookie 2023 season, earning the lowest overall grade at the position, as well as the worst pass-blocking grade. The environment around him wasn’t ideal, and the Giants will hope that their former second-round pick can improve in Year 2.
Of course, I'm not taking PFF's ranking as gospel either. But they had him rated very poorly. PFF ranks 2024 C's - ( New Window )
I'm referring to this: PFF 2023 Centers Rankings - ( New Window )
While it says nothing about his physical play, Runyan told Schmelik that JMS has been huge in helping him learn the offense, and AT praised him also. He was a fucking injured rookie. I don't know who Bisgiano is but he sounds like a shit stirring asshole.
BTW the complexity of the Giants offense has come up in each of his offensive room interviews; the D side is the opposite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIOJdMdS56k