Lombardi: NYG has no philosophical identity

Apparently not enough to think he can lead the offense without Barkley.

In comment 16548459 Sean said:

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Apparently not enough to think he can lead the offense without Barkley.

Well, I think we're spinning our wheels @ this point with Jones.

In comment 16548449 Sean said:

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I don't believe they think they have it solved at all. Tim McDonnell is asking what they identify of the offense will be without Barkley. A team which believes they have it solved doesn't ask that question.

I have to watch the episode again. A lot of the Jones discussion seemed centered on his injuries and bad luck. But I think based on their actions and some of the content in the show, Lombardi fairly concludes that the Giants have evaluated Jones to be better than many outside the team think he is. It explains a lot. It explains the contract. It explains the decision to not go hard for an alternative. Until they bench Jones, something they have never done even though he has played poorly for long stretches, I think it is fair to say the organization continues to treat him as a franchise QB. Maybe not specific individuals. Maybe not Daboll. But the organization -- yes.

The contract was a mistake, and I do think Schoen likes Jones. I also think he'll need to need to do things he has never done in his career to this point to be considered more than a placeholder in 2025.

Lock couldn't hit a barn with a tractor. I wanted him to succeed in Denver because I wanted him over Jones. But his trial run was embarrassing.

Comment on any other team than the Giants?

Also, this was one of the worst GMs in the NFL history with the Cleveland Browns and he is constantly referred to as some sort of "expert."

He drafted Barkevious Mingo 6th overall and people take his word as gospel. Amazing!

In comment 16548230 Section331 said:

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many here do, but I disagree with him here. I think Schoen has a very identifiable philosophy - he values speed. I would argue a little too much, too often at the expense of length, but it is a distinct philosophy. Whether it works or not is another question.

By "length" you actually mean "height" right? So sick of this football vernacular...

In comment 16548480 4xchamps said:

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many here do, but I disagree with him here. I think Schoen has a very identifiable philosophy - he values speed. I would argue a little too much, too often at the expense of length, but it is a distinct philosophy. Whether it works or not is another question. By "length" you actually mean "height" right? So sick of this football vernacular...

Well you'll be glad to know when people use the term length they're typically referring to some combination of height and limb length. So your sensibilities can rest easy tonight.

In comment 16548471 christian said:

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Lock couldn't hit a barn with a tractor. I wanted him to succeed in Denver because I wanted him over Jones. But his trial run was embarrassing.

I agree he isn't the answer. But as a downfield thrower he is definitely better than Tommy D. And he might be better than Tyrod. And those guys had some throwing success in Daboll's system. Maybe Lock can do better than we think in these circumstances, until we find a stud.

as much as it does is beyond anyone with a brain.

In comment 16548479 EddieNYG said:

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Comment on any other team than the Giants? Also, this was one of the worst GMs in the NFL history with the Cleveland Browns and he is constantly referred to as some sort of "expert." He drafted Barkevious Mingo 6th overall and people take his word as gospel. Amazing!

How to be , Eddie. Lombardi playing his usual role as Giant detractor . Not saying the last 10 years have been fun. Most years they sucked . But the philosophy angle is , at best, symptom not cause . They stopped getting enough good players .

Lombardi is not necessarily zeroing on a scheme but on the culture the Giants have created over the years.

There's too many people involved in the decision making process. The Giants don't have an overall philosophical sense of who they are. They adapt to their coaches rather then having coaches adapting to them. Etc...

...leads to winning.

Talent doesn't create culture, culture exposes talent.

But that is only a result of the problems within the franchise, not the reason.

Right now their identity should be about making better decisions in the front office, on the practice field, on the sidelines and under center. Then lets see what identity evolves.

If they start winning suddenly someone will point out their new identity (which likely has to do with somehow scoring more points than they are giving up).

Lombardi has no identity either

In comment 16548223 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16548219 JCin332 said: Quote: but Lombardi is an ass clown yet you continually post his shite... This. At this point, Lombardi is coming across as a stalker.

Lombardi is a jack ass.. he has an OBVIOUS axe to Grind with the Giants organization so I pay attention to NOTHING he says about the Giants because he simply cannot be objective

instill the philosophy of the Patriots and not re-sign a 1st round draft pick for 10 years?

Is that the philosophy he was talking about?

This guy needs some new material

when the season starts I'd wager.

Face off early against Minnesota and Washington. They aren't likely to be considered favorites for the playoffs. So he'll shut his mouth until something happens he can use as material. Basic bullshit journalism, like he's on a sports version of The View.

that's just wrong. you cannot see their offensive identity because their OL precluded them from executing at an average level on a consistent basis. Daboll knows what he wants to do on O - they have not had the horses.

On defense - Wink underachieved and now we enter the Bowen regime.

when they have a strong physical identity again. That was a big part of the Young/Parcells years and then the first 6-7 years of the Coughlin era.

When that identity went away rooted in the great destruction of the LoS the franchise fell on hard times. They still have not recovered.

for the horrible Giants teams of the past decade. It is their fault. They are the problem. John Mara changed the structure of the Giants football operation when he installed his brother in the position now held by his nephew.

I think it's pretty clear what the Schoen/Daboll philosophy is on offense: vertical passing with speed players. Slayton, Nabers and Hyatt are a very fast trio. Robinson isn't as straight line fast but he's super quick. With a good OL and a good QB they can be a very dangerous group.

Defensively I think Lombardi has a point. I'll reserve judgment until I see how the defense plays this year. I think the defense Bowen says he wants to play fits the style/philosophy of how the Giants played defense when they had their best years.

From what I saw and heard on Hard Knocks I think the Giants have upgraded at DC. I hope we don't have to watch Trey Hawkins playing press on Tyreek Hill on the wide side of the field with no safety help again. I hope we don't have to watch the Giants give up 600 yards in one game to Dallas. Or 89 points in 2 games.

But right now I don't see the 4 elite pash rushers Bowen is looking for. Dex sure, Burns supposedly but I've never seen him play, Thibodeaux has not shown anything near an elite pass rush in his two years. That's only 3 guys. Who would be #4? And what happens if any of those 3 get hurt?

The entire secondary is one big question mark. Banks and Pinnock seem to be sure starters. Both are young and have shown flashes of being above average. They've both struggled at times too. There's no starting CB2, no starting CB3, no starting FS with any NFL experience. With an average or below average pass rush how effective will the secondary be?

In comment 16548411 RCPhoenix said:

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Being fed to Lombardi from the nepo baby McDonnell? Ugh. Schoen clearly has a sense of what he wants to do. Go vertical, protect the passer, get the D off the field, and have an offense that scores points. Doesn’t mean he’ll be successful, but saying he doesn’t have an identity for the team is foolish.

Even Reese (basketball on grass) and Gettleman (hog mollies) had philosophies, even if the former failed in the 2nd half of his tenure and the latter failed entirely.

In comment 16548644 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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when they have a strong physical identity again. That was a big part of the Young/Parcells years and then the first 6-7 years of the Coughlin era. When that identity went away rooted in the great destruction of the LoS the franchise fell on hard times. They still have not recovered.

Perhaps.

However IMO the game has changed a lot since those days. The Giants organization has not adapted well to those changes.

If you do not adapt, you die.

Said he was the only one to ask the right question about identity.