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Is it worthwhile to let your team be on Hard Knocks?

jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 7/4/2024 11:40 am
I don't see what they gain, and this article shows several possible negatives.
for the Giants Hard Knocks seems to be more trouble than its worth - ( New Window )
Teams don't have a choice and Giants have avoided it  
Blue Dog : 7/4/2024 11:46 am : link
Rules::

Quote:

Volunteer

Any team can volunteer to be featured, but the league has had trouble finding volunteers in recent years.

Exemptions

Teams can be exempt from appearing on the show if they meet certain criteria, such as:

* Having a first-year head coach
* Participating in the in-season show during the upcoming or following season
* Appearing on Hard Knocks within the last eight years

Force teams

If no teams volunteer, the league can force a team to appear on the show. The league views Hard Knocks as a valuable marketing tool.


I rather do this offseason one than one of the other two.
it’s interesting. we get more giants content  
Joey from GlenCove : 7/4/2024 12:03 pm : link
i’m a fan i like it.
I wouldn’t  
UConn4523 : 7/4/2024 12:06 pm : link
but I’m also in the minority on it. It’s done nothing but generate the same conversations about the same topics and no one knows what’s real or what’s edited. It’s pointless IMO.
As a fan I love it. Why wouldn’t we?  
RDJR : 7/4/2024 12:19 pm : link
It’s more content about the team we root for. I’ll never understand the opposite stance from a fan’s perspective. We’ve stunk without Hard Knocks, we’ll probably stink with them.
RE: As a fan I love it. Why wouldn’t we?  
UConn4523 : 7/4/2024 12:21 pm : link
In comment 16548299 RDJR said:
Quote:
It’s more content about the team we root for. I’ll never understand the opposite stance from a fan’s perspective. We’ve stunk without Hard Knocks, we’ll probably stink with them.


More doesn’t = better. I get why it’s appealing but it’s weird to think that it can’t be a turnoff. I don’t want an 18 games season either, for example.
I prefer this version vs the training camp  
DefenseWins : 7/4/2024 12:23 pm : link
...
RE: I wouldn’t  
BH28 : 7/4/2024 12:41 pm : link
In comment 16548294 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but I’m also in the minority on it. It’s done nothing but generate the same conversations about the same topics and no one knows what’s real or what’s edited. It’s pointless IMO.


You can say that about any show, but you can 'confirm' how the Giants feel about things. For instance, edited or not, the first episode tells you the Giants don't believe in the positional value at RB. It's what many have suggested and narrative in the show aligns with their actions.

Schoen even says something about RBs falling off after 27 years old.
BH28  
UConn4523 : 7/4/2024 12:56 pm : link
him saying what everyone else knows is meaningful? I never for a second didnt think Schoen felt that way.
Yes, absolutely.  
barens : 7/4/2024 1:37 pm : link
Mahomes did the QB Doc on Netflix, and they won the SB.
My guess  
Spyder : 7/4/2024 1:40 pm : link
is every team would decline being on Hard Knocks, for lots of reasons. Competitive advantage is compromised for one, who knows what inside information is revealed to the rest of the league because of the cameras. No team needs the distractions of more cameras and and all the septic system stirring the rest of the media is already starting after this first episode.

But I think the upside for the Giants in this case is that this is a new off season version of HK, not the far more revealing inside look at training camp. This also means that the Giants obligation to HK is fulfilled for at least 8 years, I believe.

I wonder how many other teams have not met their first time HK mandate besides the Giants currently?
Like others have said  
illmatic : 7/4/2024 1:58 pm : link
They didn’t really have a choice in the matter since they’ve been trying to dodge being on there for a while now. I’m sure they made the choice to do the offseason version so the players aren’t in front of the cameras which is a lot more distracting.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/4/2024 2:16 pm : link
It’s entertaining. And that isn’t something the Giants have been much of lately for the past decade.
It is absolutely worth it!  
Jay7852 : 7/4/2024 3:33 pm : link
Shows the world the Giants have a competent front office (getting rid of the Gettleman / Joe Judge bad perceptions).

Gives the Giants a chance to showcase Brandon Brown (we get two picks if he is hired to be a GM next year)

Makes the Giants relevant again! Whether it’s good or bad people are talking about the giants again!
RE: My guess  
k2tampa : 7/4/2024 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16548352 Spyder said:
Quote:
is every team would decline being on Hard Knocks, for lots of reasons. Competitive advantage is compromised for one, who knows what inside information is revealed to the rest of the league because of the cameras. No team needs the distractions of more cameras and and all the septic system stirring the rest of the media is already starting after this first episode.

But I think the upside for the Giants in this case is that this is a new off season version of HK, not the far more revealing inside look at training camp. This also means that the Giants obligation to HK is fulfilled for at least 8 years, I believe.

I wonder how many other teams have not met their first time HK mandate besides the Giants currently?


15 others.
RE: It is absolutely worth it!  
SteelGiant : 7/4/2024 6:13 pm : link
In comment 16548391 Jay7852 said:
Quote:
Shows the world the Giants have a competent front office (getting rid of the Gettleman / Joe Judge bad perceptions).

Gives the Giants a chance to showcase Brandon Brown (we get two picks if he is hired to be a GM next year)

Makes the Giants relevant again! Whether it’s good o
r bad people are talking about the giants again!


Overall that is what I took out of it well. The whole time, all I could was, imagine if we had hard knocks with the Gentleman regime. What would have looked like, OMG put a paper bag over my head.
I don’t like it  
RetroJint : 7/4/2024 9:28 pm : link
It makes everyone an actor . For example , in his discussions with staff , Joe Schoen is playing Joe Schoen. The interactions are warped for that very reason . I never pay attention to Hard Knocks . I would rather view and listen through the filter .
I don't see how any team benefits from it  
BlackLight : 7/4/2024 9:54 pm : link
.
I don't really care much one way or the other. I mostly ignore it,  
Ira : 7/4/2024 9:59 pm : link
but take a peek now and then. I don't think teams are helped or hurt very much by it.
RE: I don't see how any team benefits from it  
Mike from Ohio : 7/5/2024 1:53 pm : link
In comment 16548494 BlackLight said:
Quote:
.


The team doesn't. The league believes the league as a whole benefits from it. That is why they have trouble getting volunteers and have to force teams to do it.

The league needs the bathroom cleaned, and it's just the Giants' turn to clean it. No deeper than that.
Double-edged sword, right?  
logman : 7/5/2024 1:57 pm : link
Nice bonus content and inside look for fans on the plus side.

More content for people to nitpick on the down side.
It’s pretty good stuff for the fans.  
ThomasG : 7/5/2024 2:36 pm : link
And certainly couldn’t hurt the team any more than what they do to themselves.

Maybe it will bring them some good fortune that has dried up completely since the last Super Bowl run.
for fans it's worth it because it's entertainment  
Eric on Li : 7/5/2024 2:56 pm : link
unfortunately most people seem to prefer complaining about their entertainment more than enjoying it for what it is.

for people whose jobs are impacted by it in frustrating ways it is pretty obviously not worth it. for bad coaches/leaders it may help them get fired faster though. hue jackson looked like a buffoon and was gone weeks later. it was clear rex ryans team had no discipline when he did it.

for the coaches/executives that are the goods i dont think it's hurt them. ex dan campbell doesn't seem worse for having done it because he seems to be a really good coach. end of the day winning/losing is the only thing that matters.
“ The league views Hard Knocks as a valuable marketing tool.”  
bwitz : 7/5/2024 4:32 pm : link
What a crock of shit.
RE: I wouldn’t  
ThomasG : 7/5/2024 4:43 pm : link
In comment 16548294 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but I’m also in the minority on it. It’s done nothing but generate the same conversations about the same topics and no one knows what’s real or what’s edited. It’s pointless IMO.


How silly. You can entertain the topics here daily but can’t with this extension?

Real has always been what they do not what they say. So you already get edited stuff all year long actually.
RE: I wouldn’t  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/5/2024 5:49 pm : link
In comment 16548294 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but I’m also in the minority on it. It’s done nothing but generate the same conversations about the same topics and no one knows what’s real or what’s edited. It’s pointless IMO.

Everything is edited. And it's also real.

Didn't realize that was confusing or controversial.
I dont really see the risk  
Giantfan in skinland : 7/6/2024 9:11 am : link
Other than training camp/in season versions might be a distraction.

I think HBO has a vested interest in making sure being in the show isn't problematic for the teams. If there was any indication competitive info got leaked or that teams are frustrated with the footage that was used, the whole thing would be done.

For example, in that first episode, the only things that were sort of eyebrow raisers for me were:

1. Rosetti being spot on in his assessment of Barkley's market and Schoen dismissing it. GM just got this one wrong (and frankly, I'm fine with his outlook on the market and just assuming other teams would do the smart thing too). That said, I'm not sure had Schoen agreed with him that Schoen would have been proven wrong on the trade piece of the equation. Yes, the Eagles paid saquon a ton of money. Would they have done so if it meant also sending us meaningful trade comp? Impossible to know.

2. The trade talk with Dan Morgan. Schoen came off looking like a sharp, imo. Morgan on the other hand seemed so ham fisted. The whole scene with Beene kind of standing off to the side listening/smirking while Schoen worked Morgan down.....looked like something that would happen in my fantasy league.
before i saw the first episode  
The Jake : 7/6/2024 10:50 am : link
my take on the whole thing was - we can’t get any worse!

now that i see how Schoen operates - decisions by consensus, reactive moves - i’m even more worried than i was before.

scripted or not, i think Schoen comes off as a leader without much conviction - a pushover, frankly. that doesn’t necessarily hurt us more - I’m sure other front offices have known this for some time - but it damn sure doesn’t make me more confident in the team.
It's "reality tv"  
HomerJones45 : 7/6/2024 10:57 am : link
the sports fans equivalent to "The Real Housewves of . . ." including the staged conversations. I imagine most teams do not want to be bothered.
RE: before i saw the first episode  
Mbavaro : 7/6/2024 10:58 am : link
In comment 16548958 The Jake said:
Quote:
my take on the whole thing was - we can’t get any worse!

now that i see how Schoen operates - decisions by consensus, reactive moves - i’m even more worried than i was before.

scripted or not, i think Schoen comes off as a leader without much conviction - a pushover, frankly. that doesn’t necessarily hurt us more - I’m sure other front offices have known this for some time - but it damn sure doesn’t make me more confident in the team.


Pushover?
Based on what?

So his conviction on what Saquon was worth and his decision to reinvest $$$ to other positions doesn’t show show conviction and illustrates a pushover

Really?
RE: before i saw the first episode  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/6/2024 11:00 am : link
In comment 16548958 The Jake said:
Quote:
my take on the whole thing was - we can’t get any worse!

now that i see how Schoen operates - decisions by consensus, reactive moves - i’m even more worried than i was before.

scripted or not, i think Schoen comes off as a leader without much conviction - a pushover, frankly. that doesn’t necessarily hurt us more - I’m sure other front offices have known this for some time - but it damn sure doesn’t make me more confident in the team.


I know what you're getting at and don't completely disagree (seemed more reactive than proactive... but that may be a function of the editing).

However, if he was a pushover, Saquon would still be here.
RE: RE: I wouldn’t  
UConn4523 : 7/6/2024 11:11 am : link
In comment 16548750 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16548294 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


but I’m also in the minority on it. It’s done nothing but generate the same conversations about the same topics and no one knows what’s real or what’s edited. It’s pointless IMO.


Everything is edited. And it's also real.

Didn't realize that was confusing or controversial.


There’s no confusion or controversy. I think a good portion of it’s scripted, and generally don’t find it interesting. Not an extreme take.
RE: RE: RE: I wouldn’t  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/8/2024 10:16 am : link
In comment 16548971 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16548750 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16548294 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


but I’m also in the minority on it. It’s done nothing but generate the same conversations about the same topics and no one knows what’s real or what’s edited. It’s pointless IMO.


Everything is edited. And it's also real.

Didn't realize that was confusing or controversial.



There’s no confusion or controversy. I think a good portion of it’s scripted, and generally don’t find it interesting. Not an extreme take.

Scripted and edited are two different things. Edited is taking a 3 hour long football game and condensing it down to a 60 minute TV broadcast, for example. In that scenario, the whole thing happened in reality, but the viewable portion has been edited down so that you're at the producers' mercy as to what portions they deemed significant and/or relevant to the overall theme. But that doesn't make any of the editing fictitious. It could potentially be misleading, but the source content is authentic.

Scripted would be entirely fictitious, or at best a reenactment of what actually happened. And even in that scenario, as outlandish and farfetched as it is on its face, the scripted content would still have to align with the team's actual offseason activities.

This feels like a theory in search of a conspiracy. Maybe Joe Rogan can do a pod on it.
Thanks for the clarification, had no idea  
UConn4523 : 7/8/2024 10:20 am : link
hope you clarified that with the others on the threads that thought parts were scripted.
RE: Thanks for the clarification, had no idea  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/8/2024 11:16 am : link
In comment 16549633 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
hope you clarified that with the others on the threads that thought parts were scripted.

"I hope all the other kids get in trouble too!" sounds like something a pajama-clad teenager would say.

They can all read exactly what I said to you if they're similarly lacking in common sense.
RE: before i saw the first episode  
illmatic : 7/8/2024 12:08 pm : link
In comment 16548958 The Jake said:
Quote:
my take on the whole thing was - we can’t get any worse!

now that i see how Schoen operates - decisions by consensus, reactive moves - i’m even more worried than i was before.

scripted or not, i think Schoen comes off as a leader without much conviction - a pushover, frankly. that doesn’t necessarily hurt us more - I’m sure other front offices have known this for some time - but it damn sure doesn’t make me more confident in the team.


I’m a little surprised by this take. I view the decisions by consensus as a good thing. For the most part, he hired these guys and he’s trusting them to do their job. He’s getting everyone’s opinion on players and isn’t invalidating how the majority might feel by going off and doing his own thing instead. And I will say Saquon and Burns mostly feel like decisions he made. Seems like he’s still going to do his thing if he feels strongly enough about the situation or the player.
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